Re: See the new dust collector?
Haha! All good John. I'm full of 95% shit, any advances...?
Warm regards,David
Dr David Luckensmeyer Practice Manager Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd ?
and
Designer and Woodworker Original Designs in Wood ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
As a newbe I just want to say The information you have provided me so far is priceless, on the other side I like that you all can shovel out the BS too.
I had a moment to look at a few of your websites and I have to say I am impressed.
I don't know you all yet, who is who, where your at, and what you really do but you have helped me and open my eyes to that there is alot more i need to look at.
Right now im trying to close a LTL on my building.? once done I am all over you guys to help me with input to put this all together.
Thank you all
Glen Christensen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...>
To: FOG
Sent: Thu, Dec 1, 2016 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
Its OK Lucky you can say it, I'm full of shit. LOL
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Its OK Lucky you can say it, I'm full of shit. LOL
?
Wow John. Pure entertainment huh? At least 90% of the time? I didn't know you were so knowledgeable. ?
?
I was being serious, I don't watch, read or listen to the news. 90% is pure bullshit. Those that control the media and the information only give you enough for control and manipulation. But Thanx for the articles. ? There's an old saying, ?believe none of what you read and half of what you see.?
These forums are nothing but pure entertainment and a slight diversion with maybe 10% useful information.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Date: 2016-12-01 8:05 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
David don't know what your referring to when you say fake news, please enlighten me.?
Not sure if you¡¯re being sarcastic or serious, but just in case . . . .
? David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Wow John. Pure entertainment huh? At least 90% of the time? I didn't know you were so knowledgeable. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2 Dec. 2016, at 11:29 am, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
I was being serious, I don't watch, read or listen to the news. 90% is pure bullshit. Those that control the media and the information only give you enough for control and manipulation. But Thanx for the articles. ? There's an old saying, ?believe none of what you read and half of what you see.?
These forums are nothing but pure entertainment and a slight diversion with maybe 10% useful information.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2016-12-01 8:05 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
David don't know what your referring to when you say fake news, please enlighten me.?
Not sure if you¡¯re being sarcastic or serious, but just in case . . . .
? David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
That's almost as bad as bean counters and marketing departments running a company.?
For some strange reason, elected officials just entered my mind, but I¡¯ll refrain from going any further on that topic. ?:-)
David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Awe David say it ain't so. Companies aren't manipulating numbers to sell products. That's almost as bad as bean counters and marketing departments running a company.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2016-12-01 8:31 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
Like I said - just like dust collection specifications.
I was being serious, I don't watch, read or listen to the news. 90% is pure bullshit. Those that control the media and the information only give you enough for control and manipulation. But Thanx for the articles. ? There's an old saying, ?believe none of what you read and half of what you see.?
These forums are nothing but pure entertainment and a slight diversion with maybe 10% useful information.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' ?david@...?[felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@...> ?Date: 2016-12-01 8:05 PM (GMT-05:00) ?To: ?felder-woodworking@...?Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector? ??
David don't know what your referring to when you say fake news, please enlighten me.?
Not sure if you¡¯re being sarcastic or serious, but just in case . . . .
? David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Like I said - just like dust collection specifications.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I was being serious, I don't watch, read or listen to the news. 90% is pure bullshit. Those that control the media and the information only give you enough for control and manipulation. But Thanx for the articles. ? There's an old saying, ?believe none of what you read and half of what you see.?
These forums are nothing but pure entertainment and a slight diversion with maybe 10% useful information.?
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' ?david@...?[felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@...> ?Date: 2016-12-01 8:05 PM (GMT-05:00) ?To: ?felder-woodworking@...?Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector? ??
David don't know what your referring to when you say fake news, please enlighten me.?
Not sure if you¡¯re being sarcastic or serious, but just in case . . . .
? David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
I was being serious, I don't watch, read or listen to the news. 90% is pure bullshit. Those that control the media and the information only give you enough for control and manipulation. But Thanx for the articles. ? There's an old saying, ?believe none of what you read and half of what you see.?
These forums are nothing but pure entertainment and a slight diversion with maybe 10% useful information.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2016-12-01 8:05 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
David don't know what your referring to when you say fake news, please enlighten me.?
Not sure if you¡¯re being sarcastic or serious, but just in case . . . .
? David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
David don't know what your referring to when you say fake news, please enlighten me.?
Not sure if you¡¯re being sarcastic or serious, but just in case . . . .
? David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Hahaha!
Warm regards, David
Dr David Luckensmeyer Practice Manager Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd ?
and
Designer and Woodworker Original Designs in Wood ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Wood dust and health risks seems to be a controversial topic without any clear authority to draw conclusions from.
I¡¯m pretty sure this is where the current ¡°Fake News¡± trend started - around dust collection specs.
David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
David don't know what your referring to when you say fake news, please enlighten me.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2016-12-01 7:33 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
Wood dust and health risks seems to be a controversial topic without any clear authority to draw conclusions from.
I¡¯m pretty sure this is where the current ¡°Fake News¡± trend started - around dust collection specs.
David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Wood dust and health risks seems to be a controversial topic without any clear authority to draw conclusions from.
I¡¯m pretty sure this is where the current ¡°Fake News¡± trend started - around dust collection specs.
David Best
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
>? I¡¯m no expert, but I think that is why Felder (and others) quote amounts/volumes, rather than sizes?
Presumably the reason they use mg/m3 is because that's the standard medical exposure metric. ?For example, OSHA doesn't specify filter size, it specifies the maximum quantity (in mg) of dust that can be present in each cubic meter of air in the workplace. ? This metric does not factor particle size, but I believe the threshold assumes a typical particle size distribution -- that is to say, if you are under the threshold, you can assume you are safe regardless of the particle size distribution. ?
Fwiw, the NIOSH exposure limit is 1mg/m3.?
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
I don't see how the micron level of the filter and the mg/m3 are not directly related (not necessarily a linear relationship).? Of course they are not the same thing, but changing the micron level of the filter will definitely impact the mg/m3 level.? I see no way around that concept.? If your filter is actually filtering anything at all, then increasing the max micron level of the filter will by definition allow more particles through which will increase the mg/m3 level. ?
mg/m3 is not a measure of volume, it is more a definition of "dust density".
Wood dust and health risks seems to be a controversial topic without any clear authority to draw conclusions from.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:43 PM, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
The only filter that gets 100% is totally plugged. A filter is also at its highest efficiency just before its plugged, Hepa or not. We're splitting a hell of a lot of hairs between 0.1, 0.05, 0.03. They are all Hepa rated and considered extremely safe and typically emit air cleaner than the air we breathe.?
-------- Original message --------
From: "David Luckensmeyer dhluckens@... [felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> Date: 2016-12-01 6:33 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
Brian, you¡¯ve hit the nail on the head (as usual). Whether a filter can filter down to a certain size or not is only one half of the story. It¡¯s the percentage efficiency that provides the other half. A filter that can filter down to 5 microns is definitely not good enough. But for filters that can filter down to 1 micron, or 0.5 microns, I¡¯ve never seen one that has 100% efficiency. This means that the filters are not getting all of the particles down to that size.?
I¡¯m no expert, but I think that is why Felder (and others) quote amounts/volumes, rather than sizes?
Warm regards, David
Dr David Luckensmeyer Practice Manager Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd ?
and
Designer and Woodworker Original Designs in Wood ?
I guess I should have continued my train of thought¡. I didn¡¯t see anything enlightening on the Festool group. I think an engineer for these dust collector companies would have to provide more info. What micron level the filters clean to is totally separate from how many milligrams per cubic meter is emitted from the DC.?
Obviously the less volume is emitted the better, but i think the size of particles has some bearing on health issues too.
Brian we were obviously trying to find a correlation between the apples and oranges. I think if you read the Festool link you will see the connection or am I completely missing something.
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
The only filter that gets 100% is totally plugged. A filter is also at its highest efficiency just before its plugged, Hepa or not. We're splitting a hell of a lot of hairs between 0.1, 0.05, 0.03. They are all Hepa rated and considered extremely safe and typically emit air cleaner than the air we breathe.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "David Luckensmeyer dhluckens@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2016-12-01 6:33 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] See the new dust collector?
?
Brian, you¡¯ve hit the nail on the head (as usual). Whether a filter can filter down to a certain size or not is only one half of the story. It¡¯s the percentage efficiency that provides the other half. A filter that can filter down to 5 microns is definitely not good enough. But for filters that can filter down to 1 micron, or 0.5 microns, I¡¯ve never seen one that has 100% efficiency. This means that the filters are not getting all of the particles down to that size.?
I¡¯m no expert, but I think that is why Felder (and others) quote amounts/volumes, rather than sizes?
Warm regards, David
Dr David Luckensmeyer Practice Manager Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd ?
and
Designer and Woodworker Original Designs in Wood ?
I guess I should have continued my train of thought¡. I didn¡¯t see anything enlightening on the Festool group. I think an engineer for these dust collector companies would have to provide more info. What micron level the filters clean to is totally separate from how many milligrams per cubic meter is emitted from the DC.?
Obviously the less volume is emitted the better, but i think the size of particles has some bearing on health issues too.
Brian we were obviously trying to find a correlation between the apples and oranges. I think if you read the Festool link you will see the connection or am I completely missing something.
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Brian, you¡¯ve hit the nail on the head (as usual). Whether a filter can filter down to a certain size or not is only one half of the story. It¡¯s the percentage efficiency that provides the other half. A filter that can filter down to 5 microns is definitely not good enough. But for filters that can filter down to 1 micron, or 0.5 microns, I¡¯ve never seen one that has 100% efficiency. This means that the filters are not getting all of the particles down to that size.?
I¡¯m no expert, but I think that is why Felder (and others) quote amounts/volumes, rather than sizes?
Warm regards, David
Dr David Luckensmeyer Practice Manager Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd ?
and
Designer and Woodworker Original Designs in Wood ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I guess I should have continued my train of thought¡. I didn¡¯t see anything enlightening on the Festool group. I think an engineer for these dust collector companies would have to provide more info. What micron level the filters clean to is totally separate from how many milligrams per cubic meter is emitted from the DC.?
Obviously the less volume is emitted the better, but i think the size of particles has some bearing on health issues too.
Brian we were obviously trying to find a correlation between the apples and oranges. I think if you read the Festool link you will see the connection or am I completely missing something.
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
I guess I should have continued my train of thought¡. I didn¡¯t see anything enlightening on the Festool group. I think an engineer for these dust collector companies would have to provide more info. What micron level the filters clean to is totally separate from how many milligrams per cubic meter is emitted from the DC.?
Obviously the less volume is emitted the better, but i think the size of particles has some bearing on health issues too.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Brian we were obviously trying to find a correlation between the apples and oranges. I think if you read the Festool link you will see the connection or am I completely missing something.
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Yes, I emailed their director (Ben Chan) for international marketing regarding the filtration.
I told him that all the cheap or junk dust collectors sold in North America come with 5 micron filter. A lot of people replaced the 5 micron filter with the 0.5 micron filter made by Wynn environmental.
By having a 5 micron filter on the dust collector regardless how excellent the design/performance is, it basically puts the product inline with the cheap/junk models in terms of air filtration, huge mistake. Customer should not pay extra to upgrade the filter, a US$ 4000 dust collector should equip with HEPA filter (0.3 micron like Festool's).
James
5 micron filter. That's a little sloppy
------------------------------------
------------------------------------
To Post a message, send it to:? ?felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com
Visit the group web site:
Visit the FOG photo library at
FOG Amazon link: - Support the FOG with purchases at Amazon.
------------------------------------
Yahoo Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
? ?
<*> Your email settings:
? ? Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
? ?
? ? (Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
? ? felder-woodworking-digest@yahoogroups.com
? ? felder-woodworking-fullfeatured@...
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
? ? felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo Groups is subject to:
? ?
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
5 micron filter. That's a little sloppy
|
Re: See the new dust collector?
Brian we were obviously trying to find a correlation between the apples and oranges. I think if you read the Festool link you will see the connection or am I completely missing something.
?
You guys are talking apples to oranges¡. the mg/m3 is ¡°Volume¡±, it¡¯s .05 milligrams per cubic meter. The other is dust particle size, microns. So it depends upon how well the unit separates the dust particle size in the airstream, and then the pass through of the filters will determine the amount in milligrams per cubic meter of air.
I have no doubt that Felder RL is rated at HEPA level filtration.
Festool dust extractor has 0.3 micron HEPA filter,?.So 0.05 mg/m? on Gyro Air is at least?HEPA level filtration, otherwise, they will not be able to sell it in Europe.
James
|
David Luckensmeyer
David P. Best