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Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?

Geoff Shepherd
 

The saga continues... Thursday evening once again I tried to get the
aluminum system extension table aligned to the dovetail rails on my
BF6-31. I must have spent another hour on it. Unfortunately, despite
positive thinking, the same result: a depressingly consistent 1-degree
sag. If I adjust the screws for perfect alignment and use a goodly
amount of clamping pressure, it is fine until the slightest weight is
applied. Then, it sags to the same 1-degree position and rests solidly.
Strangest thing.

So, just for a change of pace, I decided it would be worthwhile to
align the cast-iron extension - it needed aligning anyway. Piece of
cake! It only took a few minutes and it is spot-on with no sagging
despite heavy weight. I was impressed with the results and curious as
to what could be different!

OK... so I figured something was wrong with the aluminum extension
table. Could it be the dovetail angle? What if the dovetail was
slightly steeper on the new extension table. That would create the
result I was seeing: precise adjustment, careful mounting, and heavy
clamping pressure would secure the table flush, but only the tip of the
dovetail would actually be clamping onto the table rail. The slightest
weight on the table would cause the aluminum dovetail to pivot away
from the rail dovetail, and the table would come to rest at the point
the two dovetails mated against their full faces.

So, with that theory to go on, I started checking dovetail angles. The
critical one as I see it is the angle between the dovetail and the
table surface. This should match precisely on both the rail and the
extension tables so the dovetails mate solidly across their full bevel
faces. My tools were admittedly crude: a Stanley sliding bevel, a flat
metal rule, and a plastic protractor from an artist's supply house.
With the dovetail facing up (extension tables upsidedown), I positioned
the steel rule on the bevel of the dovetail, then used the sliding
bevel tool from the side to copy the angle between the bevel and the
table surface. I traced this angle with a fine drafting pencil onto a
squared block of maple. I could then use the protractor to read the
angle. The results were consistent within 1/2 a degree or better over
several re-measurements.

My '97 BF6-31's dovetails are all about 29-degrees in relation to the
table surface. The cast iron extension that came with the machine is
also at 29-degrees. This extension aligns perfectly and solidly.

The new aluminum system extension table (F and S couplings) has a
30-degree dovetail. Aha! That would explain why the table wants to
consistently lock down with a 1-degree sag regardless of the adjustment
bolts. They can't compensate for that much difference.

I talked to Felder today, and they are looking into this. I would be
very interested to hear what other 6-series machine owners have for
dovetail angles. Maybe it was changed at one point, or possibly I have
an incorrectly milled extension table.

Well, that's the theory for now. I don't think the aluminum extension
table should be any more difficult to align precisely and solidly than
the cast iron extensions. Something is definately different about it,
and even with my crude measuring devices, it seems to be the dovetail
angle.

At least the F-coupling works very well so I can use it on the sliding
table.

I'll let you all know how this turns out.

..Geoff

nibs-@... wrote:
original article:
=85
I don't know if I have any special hints in adjusting the aluminum
extension
table. It did take me some time and quite a bit of fiddling, but I
got it to
fit right and it doesn't sag. I think if you hold it up by hand so
it's
flush with the machine table and then adjust the screws it may help.
Seems
to me that's what I did ..but it was over a year ago and I don't
quite
remember. Good luck!

Larry
Vault reorganized

Scott Slater
 

I have reorganized the folders in the vault section. Since there were
quite a few files uploaded there, I thought that it would be nicer to
have more organization. Inside of the Articles, News, and Reviews
folder, there are now 3 separate folders; Machine Reviews, News, and
Technical Information. When uploading files in the future, please
upload to the appropriate folder.

I also converted the .DOC files to HTML. Some of text files that were
uploaded did not contain line breaks, and were difficult to read. HTML
seems to be the best format for the files. To convert the DOC files, I
used Microsoft Word, and exported (saved) the file as a web page. It is
very easy to do, and keeps the formatting of the original document. If
you have any questions feel free to email me.

Scott
Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?

 

I don't know if I have any special hints in adjusting the aluminum extension
table. It did take me some time and quite a bit of fiddling, but I got it to
fit right and it doesn't sag. I think if you hold it up by hand so it's
flush with the machine table and then adjust the screws it may help. Seems
to me that's what I did ..but it was over a year ago and I don't quite
remember. Good luck!

Larry
Re: Larry's 3-ph Diagram/Notes

 

The auto switch for the dust collector has a 4 second time delay for turn on
after any machine is turned on, and a 7 second delay after the machine is
turned off for the dust to clear the piping.

Larry
POLL: Cutting Dados

[email protected]
 

Given that the Felder machines do not normally accept a stacked dado blade set, what are your favorite/usual methods of milling dados?

----

Please select one or more of the following:

o High-speed spindle, straight bits
o H.S. spindle, spiral bits
o H.S. spindle, Hersaf bits
o Slotting cutter in shaper
o Multiple passes with saw blade
o Modified dado set
o Hand-held router
o Other


by going to the following Web form:



Thank you!
Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?

Geoff Shepherd
 

Thanks for the ideas on both the extension table and zeroing the jointer
table.

This system extension table is the dual-ended version with the flat-type
coupling on the other end. The BF6 machines use dovetails couplings all
around except on the slider which is flat-type. The F-type end only took me
about 20 minutes to align (first-timer, you know), and I was impressed with
the results. The S-type end stumped me after a good hour or so of fiddling
with it. Usually I'm pretty good about figuring out the design ideas behind
things like this, but this one isn't behaving the way I would expect it to.

Take care..
..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Norton <cnorton@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 8:18 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?


I don't have the dovetail system, so I can't comment on it. I have worked
our a good system for the F-type extensions and for adjusting the level of
the infeed table to get it exactly in line with the outfeed table when not
using the jointer:
(snip)
Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?

Charlie Norton
 

I don't have the dovetail system, so I can't comment on it. I have worked
our a good system for the F-type extensions and for adjusting the level of
the infeed table to get it exactly in line with the outfeed table when not
using the jointer:

Jointer Table
I zero a digital dial indicator on the infeed table referenced to
itself, then tip the indicator up on it's magnetic base so that the
indicator tip safely clears the blade.
Then I indicate the outfeed table referenced to the infeed table
(magnetic base on infeed table, indicator tip on the outfeed table), and
using the palm of my hand to tap the adjusting lever, I position the infeed
until the dial is zeroed. Voila! With a little practice (I got lots when I
had to adjust the tables for parallelism!) you have both tables co-planar
within 0.0005 inches in under 30 seconds.

F-Type Extensions
Obviously, this is much trickier due to the need to adjust the lower
bolts. However, I figure the most important aspects of this are:
1) Making sure the two tables are exactly at the same height where they
are closest to avoid "catching" of the workpiece in either direction.
2) Making sure the extension is even or rises slightly (say .005 at the
end farthest from the table) ) as you move away from the table. I let it
rise as I figure when I put weight on it, it will sag a bit.
With this in mind, I adjust the two screws leveling the height of the
extension with the method above. Be ALL screws are in contact with the
table by feeling the increase in drive torque as you rotate them into the
table. Tighten down the lock nuts.
Then I adjust the lower bolts so that the extension rises slightly. Be
sure BOTH bolts contact the table. This usually takes me a few tries.
Tighten the quick lock before checking with a straight edge. Tighten down
the lock nuts.
Then rezero the height using the procedure above. I have found that
unless I have to move the extension adjustment screws a lot, I am still
within 0.005 on the plus side for the end of the table.

When I first got the machine, I did not have a lot of confidence in the
extensions to maintain accurate table alignment in use. I could not believe
Felder didn't have custom, flat headed bolts to rest against the table. I
guess the $.50 they saved per bolt was worth it to them. After some
experience (not enough to speak with authority), I have been pleasantly
surprised. They seem to be holding the initial alignments well. I have NOT
put much weight on them yet, however.

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Hints on Dovetail Coupling?


Anyone have any tips & hints on adjusting the aluminum system extension
table for use with the dovetail coupling? It seems very tricky, and so far
my attempts of following the terse instructions result in a sagging table.
It seems like the lower pair of stand-off bolts take most of the weight,
and
the upper pair don't contact the dovetail face - if they do it just
produces
even more sagging.

Ideas?

..Geoff



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Larry's 3-ph Diagram/Notes

Geoff Shepherd
 

Larry has uploaded new versions of his 3-phase wiring diagram and notes in
HTML/GIF format to the Vault.

(by the way, thanks to Felder USA for also uploading an HTML version of the
Special of the Month! If anyone had troubles getting it to load before,
check it out now.)

Larry's system turns on the 3-phase dust collector automatically whenever
any of the machines are in use.

Does this Auto-Switch relay have any sort of timers built in so it doesn't
switch on the dust collector for a few seconds (to avoid two motors loads
starting simultaneously), and another delay to run for a number of seconds
after the machine is shut down to clear the pipes/hoses? If not, could this
be added with additional time-delay relays?

Also, I have an old article from Fine Woodworking that shows how to build
automatic blast gates. I wonder if that could be integrated with this design
as well. I'm going to have to dig up that article...

...Geoff
Hints on Dovetail Coupling?

Geoff Shepherd
 

Anyone have any tips & hints on adjusting the aluminum system extension
table for use with the dovetail coupling? It seems very tricky, and so far
my attempts of following the terse instructions result in a sagging table.
It seems like the lower pair of stand-off bolts take most of the weight, and
the upper pair don't contact the dovetail face - if they do it just produces
even more sagging.

Ideas?

..Geoff
Re: Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??

 

Geoff,

The MAC version of Word can read PC files perfectly, so no problem there.

Larry
Re: solution to BF7-41 planer problem

dolsid
 

开云体育

I had a similar problem?with a BF7-41 and hold my breath when ever I use the planer.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 9:12 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] solution to BF7-41 planer problem

Thanks to John R. and Seth H.for their responses.
After much fussing, adjusting the compression spring screws 1/2 of one screwdriver slot width at a time, and finding the an appropriate balance? between infeed and outfeed roller pressure, I successfully? achieved some progress in getting the planer to feed. Several coats of machine buffed paste wax applied to the table resulted in smooth feeding of? lumber and the end to many hours of frustration.?Felder makes a fine machine, but in my opinion it is a bit too sensitive in some respects. I would be interested to hear from anyone else in this regard.
With respect to the limitation of the jointer fence setting relative to the jointer table width, I am of the opinion that the jointer table side extension should be an included part of the machine, even if the cost is built into the price. I used to use the full surface of the jointer on my BF5 ( now Phillip Tamarkin's) without the fence with no problem, but still feel that the fence should be useable with the full width of the table. I have the extension on the BF7 and find I like not having to remove and replace the fence when going from surfacing to jointing while doing wide stock.
Regards to all,
Paul
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Re: Joel's pics

Geoff Shepherd
 

That reminds me of the miniature combination machine I saw at the Seattle
Woodworking Show... I think it was from Hegner... combination saw/router
table (and maybe one other function), and even had a little sliding table. I
know the micro-table saws are popular with pen turners as well - when you
need to cut small pieces of expensive exotic wood, these saws do the trick
and waste very little in the kerf width.

... Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:55 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Joel's pics


right , they are a table saw and thickness sander. I got them after I got
the Felder and found out that I could not cut the miniature pieces I needed
for the small boxes I make. They are from Preac and are precision tools,
much like the Felder on a smaller scale.
Re: Joel's pics

Joel Cohen
 

Geoff,

? right , they are a table saw and thickness sander. I got them after I got
the Felder and found out that I could not cut the miniature pieces I needed
for the small boxes I make. They are from Preac and are precision tools,
much like the Felder on a smaller scale.

Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:31 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Joel's pics

Joel,

Don't worry about it - I think we're inventing this thing as we go
along...
I deleted the picture for you.

I like your shop photos, and I even recognized most of the tools you
have...
but... what are the miniature tools on your desk there? It looks
like a tiny
table saw and a miniature planer... did I guess right?

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 1:30 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??


> Geoff,
>
> It was I. I did not known what I was doing . You can delete it as
I have
> duplicated the pic I my vault.




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--

Re: Man, that sucks! (AF-22)

Geoff Shepherd
 

Charlie,

The only air-flow specs I have for the AF-22 are the ones in the manual, and
it makes reference to a 2.2kW motor. If you don't already have those specs,
it's hard to describe in a few words since they show it as three fan curves
depending on inlet/hose size. The most airflow shown is 3000 m3/h at 250 Pa
via a 160mm connector directly at the intake of the blower. Following that
curve, we hit 2500 m3/h at around 1250 Pa, and 1500 m3/h at 2300 Pa.

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Norton <cnorton@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Man, that sucks! (AF-22)


What does Felder advertise for airflow?
Re: Man, that sucks! (AF-22)

Charlie Norton
 

A 3kW output motor is indeed 4HP.

A dust collector motor, if properly designed, will be a full load at all
times.

A 3-phase motor is generally much more efficient than a single phase motor.
The RMS current in each phase of a 3-phase transmission line is 57.8 percent
(1 over the square root of 3) of the RMS current in a single phase line, for
the same power transmitted at the same RMS line voltage. This of course, is
for phases of equal amplitude separated by 120 degrees. I'm not sure what
happens to these currents when the machine is powered from a rotary phase
converter.

What does Felder advertise for airflow?

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 11:19 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Man, that sucks! (AF-22)


I just got my AF-22 wired up last night... after getting the motor running
in the right direction (it's 3-phase), I connected the hoses,
double-checked
the bags and pleated drum filter, then hit the Start button. Wooosh! It was
up to speed and moving a LOT of air... then something caused it to labor
for
a half-second and I couldn't find the cat anymore... (just kidding). This
DC
has an amazing amount of suction and air flow... the noise it makes is
mostly moving air and isn't loud enough to warrant hearing protection in my
estimation... in fact, it is barely audible outside of the shop
(uninsulated
as of now). Well, it looks like since this thing really sucks, it'll
probably just sit in the corner and collect dust.. (OK, I'll stop now.. it
must be terribly annoying by now).

The two Felder-brand plastic collection bags that came with the machine
were
full of holes (and liberally duct taped).. oh - I should mention here that
I
bought the machine used, so no, I'm sure it didn't come from the factory
like that!! Anyway, I didn't want to risk a big dust cloud in the shop, and
I haven't received my package of new bags yet (probably today)... however,
I
found bags that will work perfectly well anyway, only they are not clear:
42-gallon Ruffies-brand "Contractor Clean-up Bags." They are 3-mil thick
and
resist puncture since they are intended for cleaning up remodeling messes
like nails and drywall scraps - I use them all the time when working on the
house. They happen to fit the machine perfectly and are just the right
height so they are supported from below. The only problem is they are
opaque-black so you cannot visually monitor how full they are getting, and
they don't have the cool FELDER logo on them... but at $6 for a roll of 10,
they are cost effective if they aren't being reused (unlike a lot of you, I
don't have a place to compost piles of sawdust, so it must go to the dump
or
be picked up curbside... unless I added that $42,000 hydraulic-ram pellet
making machine to my shop... hmm! naw...).

Well, now I know why my AF-22 is relatively quiet... I finally discovered
the plate that lists the model number, serial number, etc... it's under the
"deck" near the motor tucked away in the corner. Aha! -- "AF-22 LN"... so
it
is the new Low Noise version after all - good! Wonder how I missed that
before. It also sports a 3kW/3ph motor rather than the 2.2kW/3ph motors in
my BF6-31... what does that equate to in horsepower? I thought my BF6-31
was
effectively 4HP, but if 1HP = 740W (more or less), then my BF6-31 is more
like 3HP and the AF-22 would be 4HP. Is it calculated differently for
3-phase motors? Am I all screwed up on this??! Also, in a dust collector
such as the AF-22, is the motor under full load all the time?

On a related question... I read in my residential wiring text book (vintage
1990) that given the same horsepower and supply voltage, a 3-phase motor
will draw about 55% of the full-load current (amps) as a single-phase motor
(this is listed in tables from the NEC, and the exact ratio varies
depending
on horsepower). Does this take into account three hot legs vs. two hot
legs?
In other words, is it like comparing apples to oranges? I was thus far
under
the impression that three-phase motors were significantly more effecient
than single-phase. Maybe this ties in with computing horsepower from Watts
as above.

Have a great day...
--
Geoff Shepherd
(forum manager)
Everett, WA
BF6-31, AF-22 LN



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Joel's pics

Geoff Shepherd
 

Joel,

Don't worry about it - I think we're inventing this thing as we go along...
I deleted the picture for you.

I like your shop photos, and I even recognized most of the tools you have...
but... what are the miniature tools on your desk there? It looks like a tiny
table saw and a miniature planer... did I guess right?

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 1:30 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??


Geoff,

It was I. I did not known what I was doing . You can delete it as I have
duplicated the pic I my vault.
Re: Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??

Joel Cohen
 

Geoff,

It was I. I did not known what I was doing . You can delete it as I have
duplicated the pic I my vault.

Thanks,

Joel Cohen
BF7-41F,

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 4:22 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??

Who uploaded the file 2-PIC00008.jpg in the main folder of the
Vault?
It looks like a good picture, but I'd like to move it to an
appropriate
sub-folder within the Member Shop & Project Pictures.

Now that we've hashed out some guidelines on using the vault, I've
uploaded an HTML document everyone should take a look through before
uploading. They are just guidelines, open for modification and
bending...

Although I think we should discourage uploading files in MS-Word
(DOC)
format, that doesn't change the fact that there are already many DOC
files in the Vault. For those who don't own a copy of Microsoft
Word,
there is a free Word Viewer available from Microsoft - see the Links
section on our member site. Unfortunately, it is a Windows only
version, so Mac users may still be out of luck unless they own a
word
processor that can import MS-Word files or can run the Word Viewer
in a
Windows Emulator.

--
Geoff Shepherd
(group manager)




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Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??

Geoff Shepherd
 

Who uploaded the file 2-PIC00008.jpg in the main folder of the Vault?
It looks like a good picture, but I'd like to move it to an appropriate
sub-folder within the Member Shop & Project Pictures.

Now that we've hashed out some guidelines on using the vault, I've
uploaded an HTML document everyone should take a look through before
uploading. They are just guidelines, open for modification and
bending...

Although I think we should discourage uploading files in MS-Word (DOC)
format, that doesn't change the fact that there are already many DOC
files in the Vault. For those who don't own a copy of Microsoft Word,
there is a free Word Viewer available from Microsoft - see the Links
section on our member site. Unfortunately, it is a Windows only
version, so Mac users may still be out of luck unless they own a word
processor that can import MS-Word files or can run the Word Viewer in a
Windows Emulator.

--
Geoff Shepherd
(group manager)
Voting Results: Tooling Discount for the forum

eGroups.com Poll Results
 

Here are the results of the vote:

1. Great Idea. 11
Man, that sucks! (AF-22)

Geoff Shepherd
 

I just got my AF-22 wired up last night... after getting the motor running
in the right direction (it's 3-phase), I connected the hoses, double-checked
the bags and pleated drum filter, then hit the Start button. Wooosh! It was
up to speed and moving a LOT of air... then something caused it to labor for
a half-second and I couldn't find the cat anymore... (just kidding). This DC
has an amazing amount of suction and air flow... the noise it makes is
mostly moving air and isn't loud enough to warrant hearing protection in my
estimation... in fact, it is barely audible outside of the shop (uninsulated
as of now). Well, it looks like since this thing really sucks, it'll
probably just sit in the corner and collect dust.. (OK, I'll stop now.. it
must be terribly annoying by now).

The two Felder-brand plastic collection bags that came with the machine were
full of holes (and liberally duct taped).. oh - I should mention here that I
bought the machine used, so no, I'm sure it didn't come from the factory
like that!! Anyway, I didn't want to risk a big dust cloud in the shop, and
I haven't received my package of new bags yet (probably today)... however, I
found bags that will work perfectly well anyway, only they are not clear:
42-gallon Ruffies-brand "Contractor Clean-up Bags." They are 3-mil thick and
resist puncture since they are intended for cleaning up remodeling messes
like nails and drywall scraps - I use them all the time when working on the
house. They happen to fit the machine perfectly and are just the right
height so they are supported from below. The only problem is they are
opaque-black so you cannot visually monitor how full they are getting, and
they don't have the cool FELDER logo on them... but at $6 for a roll of 10,
they are cost effective if they aren't being reused (unlike a lot of you, I
don't have a place to compost piles of sawdust, so it must go to the dump or
be picked up curbside... unless I added that $42,000 hydraulic-ram pellet
making machine to my shop... hmm! naw...).

Well, now I know why my AF-22 is relatively quiet... I finally discovered
the plate that lists the model number, serial number, etc... it's under the
"deck" near the motor tucked away in the corner. Aha! -- "AF-22 LN"... so it
is the new Low Noise version after all - good! Wonder how I missed that
before. It also sports a 3kW/3ph motor rather than the 2.2kW/3ph motors in
my BF6-31... what does that equate to in horsepower? I thought my BF6-31 was
effectively 4HP, but if 1HP = 740W (more or less), then my BF6-31 is more
like 3HP and the AF-22 would be 4HP. Is it calculated differently for
3-phase motors? Am I all screwed up on this??! Also, in a dust collector
such as the AF-22, is the motor under full load all the time?

On a related question... I read in my residential wiring text book (vintage
1990) that given the same horsepower and supply voltage, a 3-phase motor
will draw about 55% of the full-load current (amps) as a single-phase motor
(this is listed in tables from the NEC, and the exact ratio varies depending
on horsepower). Does this take into account three hot legs vs. two hot legs?
In other words, is it like comparing apples to oranges? I was thus far under
the impression that three-phase motors were significantly more effecient
than single-phase. Maybe this ties in with computing horsepower from Watts
as above.

Have a great day...
--
Geoff Shepherd
(forum manager)
Everett, WA
BF6-31, AF-22 LN
140621 - 140640 of 140712