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I am interested in a combo unit planner/jointer.

AS I own a Minimax slidingtable saw, I am familiar with the Minimax line of combos, but not the Felder's. I am considering the MiniMax 12 Inch combo which has a 59 inch long bed, a 3 blade Tersa head 4.8 HP motor 220 volt, 20 amp single phase motor which sells for about $4,200. The 16 inch model has a 71 inch bed and same specs as the other but sells for $5200.

What does Felder have that is comparable?

William Moss

Since we are talking about dust collection - BTW, great post Bill - I'll

To start with, here's some thoughts about my recent Nordfab
installation -- in no particular order...

1. Yes, Nordfab does cost "at least twice as much" as other ductwork
options. But it's easy to install; easy to make adjustments to
reposition pieces (or to rethink how you originally planned to layout
a run); easy to take apart to clear a clog; and, if you ever move your
shop to another address, most of the pieces of your system would be
readily reusable. Plus if you ever retire your woodworking shop (not
that any of us will ever do that), most of your Nordfab ductwork will
still retain much of its value for resale. For all of these reasons,
I choose Nordfab and if I had to do it again -- well, I would do it again.

2. Nordfab's catalog only shows 30 degree wye branches, but 45 degree
wyes are also readily available without any special order charges.
They aren't mentioned in their catalogs -- you just gotta ask for
them. If you have a relatively small workshop (like I have), using 45
degree wyes may help a lot in laying out your dust collection system.

3. Nordfab's standard length pipes are about 60" in length. They
also offer what they call nipple pipes which are about 12" long. To
create a pipe less than 60" long, you cut off a section of the 60"
pipe, and then slide it into the 12" nipple pipe and secure it with a
quick-clamp. All of this is pretty common knowledge to anyone who has
previously bought Nordfab ductwork. But what I didn't initially know
was that you can also special order nipples that are "less than" 12"
long -- for example, when you only need a 7" long piece of quick-connect

Actually you can special order lots of different connectors from
Nordfab, and if they're similar to any of Nordfab standard offerings
then there may not be any special charges. I found that to be surprising.

4. Whenever I had to shorten a pipe, I used a bench-mounted 14"
metal-cutting cut-off saw to slice through the Nordfab pipes (although
I didn't cut anything wider than 6" pipes). These are the cheap
cut-off saws that can be found at Home Depot and Lowes. Very easy to do

wide strip of cardboard around the entire pipe, marked it with a magic
marker where it needed to be cut, and then just 2 quick cuts for each

Lots of sparks that scared my wife, but it worked like a dream and cut
through the pipes like butter. Definitely wear goggles and a hat --
and if you have a ceiling- mounted air cleaner, that helpful too!
After each cut I smoothed out the cut edges with a small grinding
wheel mounted on the end of a hand power drill.

5. I've discovered that it's not unusual for Nordfab to ship old
inventory first. But in all fairness to Nordfab, most companies
probably have a similar policy. For example, my first 7" quick-clamp
arrived with a fairly short handle that was close to impossible to
close. When I called for advice about how I could leverage the "too
short handle" to close the quick-clamp, Nordfab quickly shipped me a
later model 7" quick-clamp (at no
charge) with a longer handle that was much easier to close. So when
you place your Nordfab order be sure to specify that you only want the
"latest available inventory" for each piece ordered. Hey, it may not
actually happen but it sure doesn't hurt to ask.

6. FYI -- In the last few months, Nordfab has introduced a new
quick-clamp for their system that provides a full 360 degree seal
around the entire pipe connection. Their old quick-connect clamp
(which, of course, includes ALL of the ones that I bought) didn't
quite do a full seal (probably only about 95% to 98% although they still

So if you place a 2009 order, be sure that you specify that you want
only the newer clamps otherwise Nordfab might try to ship you some of
their older style clamps to clear out old inventory.

7. Most of Nordfab's independent dealers charge Nordfab's full list
price, and some may even add on extra charges for processing paperwork,

Felder recommended contacting Doug Lippy with Industrial Corp. in
Maryland, and Doug is one of those Nordfab dealers that charges full list

Maybe at one time Doug gave Foggers a discount, but he apparently
doesn't do it anymore. In this tight economy you would think he
would. So instead I went with:

Kevin Bolland
Bolland Machine
2718 Darlington Rd.
Beaver Falls, PA 15010
Phone: 724-846-1290
Fax: 724-846-5253
kevin@...

Kevin had been previously recommended by several Foggers (that's how I
found him). He offers a 10% discount to FOG members (if you ask for
it), and I've found him to be both helpful & easy to work with. When
I explained to him what I was trying to do, he patiently listened &
then offered suggestions & solutions that saved me both money & future
grief. And, in fact, several of my tips in this post originated from
Kevin. In addition to the 10% discount, there also weren't any
additional hidden charges for consultations, handling the paperwork,
shipping markups, etc. Kevin's a good guy to do business with.

8. All orders are packed and shipped directly from Nordfab's facility
in North Carolina. So it really doesn't matter where a dealer is located:
you'll still pay the same shipping charges to your shop regardless of
which dealer you use. All of the truck and UPS shipments that I
received from Nordfab (without exception) were well packed and arrived

FYI -- I took advantage of a FREE SHIPPING offer that Nordfab had this
past December. That saved me a lot of money. I don't know if that
was a one-time free shipping offer -- or whether Nordfab will be doing
it again if the U.S. economy continues to tank. Does anyone know if
Nordfab ever offered this before?

9. Even though all of Nordfab's pipes and pieces will readily clamp
together without any tools needed, always wear leather-faced gloves
when doing your installation -- there are lots of tiny, unseen sharp
metal edges everywhere that will definitely cut up your hands (even if
you're being quite careful). I'm talking from experience here. I
found a nice pair of leather-faced gray mechanics gloves at Lowes for
about $15.00 that fit like a second skin and worked great to eliminate

10. There are lots of different ways to hang Nordfab ductwork from
your ceiling. I choose to use #2 Gripple hangers ( see
www.gripple.com ) which are rated to hang about 100 lbs. per Gripple.
For those unfamiliar with Gripples, they use a thin wire rope to hang
the ductwork from your ceiling, and they're designed to be easily
re-adjusted/re-tensioned. That makes them quick & easy to install
and, if needed, to later easily re-adjust. The Gripples that I bought
came already attached to a small "L" bracket, and I just screwed them
into my basement ceiling joists. It was a very clean, nice-looking
installation. Gripples are available in several different varieties
and sizes, depending upon: how much weight they need to support, how

I used 5-foot long # HF-SEYE90G-NO2-5FT @ $5.35 each and I bought them
in late December '08 from:

Alan Manufacturing Inc.
3927 East Lincoln Way
Wooster, OH 44691
(800) 435-2526
Fax (877) 333-2526

Alan Manufacturing has Gripple info available at:
www.alanmfg.com/Catalog/Alan 2009 Catalog.pdf Their Web site doesn't
take orders, so you'll need to call them at their 800 number to place your

Be aware though that Alan Manufacturing isn't really set up for Web
mail orders and it may take them a few weeks to ship your order, but
otherwise they are reliable, honest, and they charge reasonable
prices. Their Gripples are normally sold in packages of 10 -- so I
ordered 2 packs. Alan Manufacturing was the only U.S. source who I
found that sells and stocks most of the various varieties of Gripples
available -- although you might be also able to find them elsewhere as
well. When I searched the Web, Gripples seemed to be more readily

11. I modified the Nordfab gates per a previous FOG posting (sorry
that I can't give credit to where its due since I forgot who posted
it) -- "Disassemble a standard metal blast gate into its' 3
components. On one side of the cast housing, drill 3 holes, 17/64
diameter through (one side
of) the housing. Locate these holes near the area where the
thumb-screw threads are. Reassemble the blast gate. Drop 1/4" rare
earth magnets from Lee Valley Tools into the holes. These magnets
will stick to the gate portion of the assembly and provide the same

That worked great -- many thanks for the tip! While the gates were
disassembled I smoothed out some of the rough edges on the sliding
part to make it slide a little better. I also substituted (on each
gate) a steel round-nose spring-plunger set-screw with a 1/4"-20
thread ( www.McMaster.com
#3126A142 ) for the gate's thumbscrew adjuster.

12. I installed all of my gates to be as close to my main line as
feasible -- as recommended by Bill Pentz. From what I understand,
that helps to prevent large quantities of debris from slamming into
your cyclone and then make its way into your filter(s) instead of your

And it may also help your system to run better too. My Oneida cyclone
is only a 2 HP 230 volts single phase unit -- so anything that I could
do to help it function a little better became important to me.

13. I attached a short extension handle to each gate to make them
easier to reach & use. These handles were fabricated from a 1/4" x 1"
wide aluminum bar. I just cut the 5 foot long bars to the appropriate
length needed, and then bolted it to the end of the gate. My longest
extension handle was only about 12 inches long. If you need longer
extension handles you might want to go with a thinner aluminum bar
(i.e., 1/8" or 3/16" thick). To finish off the end of each extension
handle, I slipped on a nice-looking red plastic handle grip that I bought

McMaster-Carr has these handle grips available in several designer
colors (I.e., red, black, or white). Initially the handle grips were
pretty hard to slip over the end of the aluminum bar, but adding a few
drops of blue Loctite #242 thread locker into the end of the grip (as
a temporary
lubricant) helped a lot. The extra weight of these aluminum extension
handles was offset by both the magnets and spring-plunger set-screws
previously described. The extension handles added a very nice
finishing touch to the gates.

14. Following another FOG recommendation, I bought an aluminum 5"
duct coupler (www.McMaster.com # 5518K14) and attached it with HVAC
metal ductwork tape to a Felder 120mm plastic quick-connector. After
assembly, it now fits both a 5" hose and the Felder 120mm port
perfectly -- a very sweet combination that looks & works great.

15. I'm now building a dust level monitor for my Oneida 35 gallon
dust collector drum. Per Art Pentz's recommendation from a while
back, I purchased a Series DBLM "Mini-Bin" Dry Bulk Level Monitor that
I'll be mounting on the dust collector drum. The monitor uses a small
120 volt motor that rotates a small blade with paddles at 1 rpm. When
the drum is close to full, the paddle blade is stopped, a micro-switch
then turns off the power to the motor, and a second micro-switch turns
on another device to alert you that the bin is full. In my
application, I'll be using that second micro-switch to set off an LED
strobe light mounted on the lid of the dust collector drum. I
purchased the motorized bulk level monitor (part #
DBLM3040) for $125 directly from www.dwyer-inst.com. The LED flashing
strobe light (part # LEDFL-RV350-ACA) cost $67 and was purchased from
www.safetylightsandsignals.com While the LED strobe light provides
plenty of attention-getting light for its purpose, it only consumes
about 1/10th of one amp at 120 volts so it shouldn't burn out the
micro-switch which is only rated for 3 amps. Yes, I could've instead
wired in a relay to control a higher amperage alerting device but I
wanted to keep it all as simple as possible and, for safety concerns,
I also didn't want to create any potential sparks near my dust
collector. That said, the whole circuit is pretty basic and intuitive
to wire (the bulk level monitor comes packaged with a color-coded
wiring diagram). I'm also going to hook it up so that it only receives

Hopefully at least a few of you folks will find some of the above info
helpful.

Best,

Bill

To start with, here's some thoughts about my recent Nordfab installation --
in no particular order...

1. Yes, Nordfab does cost "at least twice as much" as other ductwork
options. But it's easy to install; easy to make adjustments to reposition
pieces (or to rethink how you originally planned to layout a run); easy to
take apart to clear a clog; and, if you ever move your shop to another
address, most of the pieces of your system would be readily reusable. Plus
if you ever retire your woodworking shop (not that any of us will ever do
that), most of your Nordfab ductwork will still retain much of its value for
resale. For all of these reasons, I choose Nordfab and if I had to do it
again -- well, I would do it again.

2. Nordfab's catalog only shows 30 degree wye branches, but 45 degree wyes
are also readily available without any special order charges. They aren't
mentioned in their catalogs -- you just gotta ask for them. If you have a
relatively small workshop (like I have), using 45 degree wyes may help a lot
in laying out your dust collection system.

3. Nordfab's standard length pipes are about 60" in length. They also
offer what they call nipple pipes which are about 12" long. To create a pipe
less than 60" long, you cut off a section of the 60" pipe, and then slide it
into the 12" nipple pipe and secure it with a quick-clamp. All of this is
pretty common knowledge to anyone who has previously bought Nordfab
ductwork. But what I didn't initially know was that you can also special
order nipples that are "less than" 12" long -- for example, when you only
need a 7" long piece of quick-connect pipe for a particular location.
Actually you can special order lots of different connectors from Nordfab,
and if they're similar to any of Nordfab standard offerings then there may
not be any special charges. I found that to be surprising.

4. Whenever I had to shorten a pipe, I used a bench-mounted 14"
metal-cutting cut-off saw to slice through the Nordfab pipes (although I
didn't cut anything wider than 6" pipes). These are the cheap cut-off saws
that can be found at Home Depot and Lowes. Very easy to do -- I put a 4"
wide strip of cardboard around the entire pipe, marked it with a magic
marker where it needed to be cut, and then just 2 quick cuts for each pipe.
Lots of sparks that scared my wife, but it worked like a dream and cut
through the pipes like butter. Definitely wear goggles and a hat -- and if
you have a ceiling- mounted air cleaner, that helpful too! After each cut I
smoothed out the cut edges with a small grinding wheel mounted on the end of
a hand power drill.

5. I've discovered that it's not unusual for Nordfab to ship old inventory
first. But in all fairness to Nordfab, most companies probably have a
similar policy. For example, my first 7" quick-clamp arrived with a fairly
short handle that was close to impossible to close. When I called for
advice about how I could leverage the "too short handle" to close the
quick-clamp, Nordfab quickly shipped me a later model 7" quick-clamp (at no
charge) with a longer handle that was much easier to close. So when you
place your Nordfab order be sure to specify that you only want the "latest
available inventory" for each piece ordered. Hey, it may not actually
happen but it sure doesn't hurt to ask.

6. FYI -- In the last few months, Nordfab has introduced a new quick-clamp
for their system that provides a full 360 degree seal around the entire pipe
connection. Their old quick-connect clamp (which, of course, includes ALL
of the ones that I bought) didn't quite do a full seal (probably only about
95% to 98% although they still sealed quite tight with very little leakage).
So if you place a 2009 order, be sure that you specify that you want only
the newer clamps otherwise Nordfab might try to ship you some of their older
style clamps to clear out old inventory.

7. Most of Nordfab's independent dealers charge Nordfab's full list price,
and some may even add on extra charges for processing paperwork, etc.
Felder recommended contacting Doug Lippy with Industrial Corp. in Maryland,
and Doug is one of those Nordfab dealers that charges full list price.
Maybe at one time Doug gave Foggers a discount, but he apparently doesn't do
it anymore. In this tight economy you would think he would. So instead I
went with:

Kevin Bolland
Bolland Machine
2718 Darlington Rd.
Beaver Falls, PA 15010
Phone: 724-846-1290
Fax: 724-846-5253
kevin@...

Kevin had been previously recommended by several Foggers (that's how I found
him). He offers a 10% discount to FOG members (if you ask for it), and I've
found him to be both helpful & easy to work with. When I explained to him
what I was trying to do, he patiently listened & then offered suggestions &
solutions that saved me both money & future grief. And, in fact, several of
my tips in this post originated from Kevin. In addition to the 10%
discount, there also weren't any additional hidden charges for
consultations, handling the paperwork, shipping markups, etc. Kevin's a
good guy to do business with.

8. All orders are packed and shipped directly from Nordfab's facility in
North Carolina. So it really doesn't matter where a dealer is located:
you'll still pay the same shipping charges to your shop regardless of which
dealer you use. All of the truck and UPS shipments that I received from
Nordfab (without exception) were well packed and arrived without damage.
FYI -- I took advantage of a FREE SHIPPING offer that Nordfab had this past
December. That saved me a lot of money. I don't know if that was a
one-time free shipping offer -- or whether Nordfab will be doing it again if
the U.S. economy continues to tank. Does anyone know if Nordfab ever
offered this before?

9. Even though all of Nordfab's pipes and pieces will readily clamp
together without any tools needed, always wear leather-faced gloves when
doing your installation -- there are lots of tiny, unseen sharp metal edges
everywhere that will definitely cut up your hands (even if you're being
quite careful). I'm talking from experience here. I found a nice pair of
leather-faced gray mechanics gloves at Lowes for about $15.00 that fit like
a second skin and worked great to eliminate further cut hands.

10. There are lots of different ways to hang Nordfab ductwork from your
ceiling. I choose to use #2 Gripple hangers ( see www.gripple.com ) which
are rated to hang about 100 lbs. per Gripple. For those unfamiliar with
Gripples, they use a thin wire rope to hang the ductwork from your ceiling,
and they're designed to be easily re-adjusted/re-tensioned. That makes them
quick & easy to install and, if needed, to later easily re-adjust. The
Gripples that I bought came already attached to a small "L" bracket, and I
just screwed them into my basement ceiling joists. It was a very clean,
nice-looking installation. Gripples are available in several different
varieties and sizes, depending upon: how much weight they need to support,
how you'll attach them, and how long a support wire you'll need.

I used 5-foot long # HF-SEYE90G-NO2-5FT @ $5.35 each and I bought them in
late December '08 from:

Alan Manufacturing Inc.
3927 East Lincoln Way
Wooster, OH 44691
(800) 435-2526
Fax (877) 333-2526

Alan Manufacturing has Gripple info available at:
www.alanmfg.com/Catalog/Alan 2009 Catalog.pdf Their Web site doesn't take
orders, so you'll need to call them at their 800 number to place your order.
Be aware though that Alan Manufacturing isn't really set up for Web mail
orders and it may take them a few weeks to ship your order, but otherwise
they are reliable, honest, and they charge reasonable prices. Their
Gripples are normally sold in packages of 10 -- so I ordered 2 packs. Alan
Manufacturing was the only U.S. source who I found that sells and stocks
most of the various varieties of Gripples available -- although you might be
also able to find them elsewhere as well. When I searched the Web, Gripples
seemed to be more readily available in Europe than in the U.S.

11. I modified the Nordfab gates per a previous FOG posting (sorry that I
can't give credit to where its due since I forgot who posted it) --
"Disassemble a standard metal blast gate into its' 3 components. On one
side of the cast housing, drill 3 holes, 17/64 diameter through (one side
of) the housing. Locate these holes near the area where the thumb-screw
threads are. Reassemble the blast gate. Drop 1/4" rare earth magnets from
Lee Valley Tools into the holes. These magnets will stick to the gate
portion of the assembly and provide the same function as the thumbscrew".
That worked great -- many thanks for the tip! While the gates were
disassembled I smoothed out some of the rough edges on the sliding part to
make it slide a little better. I also substituted (on each gate) a steel
round-nose spring-plunger set-screw with a 1/4"-20 thread ( www.McMaster.com
#3126A142 ) for the gate's thumbscrew adjuster.

12. I installed all of my gates to be as close to my main line as
feasible -- as recommended by Bill Pentz. From what I understand, that
helps to prevent large quantities of debris from slamming into your cyclone
and then make its way into your filter(s) instead of your collection drum.
And it may also help your system to run better too. My Oneida cyclone is
only a 2 HP 230 volts single phase unit -- so anything that I could do to
help it function a little better became important to me.

13. I attached a short extension handle to each gate to make them easier to
reach & use. These handles were fabricated from a 1/4" x 1" wide aluminum
bar. I just cut the 5 foot long bars to the appropriate length needed, and
then bolted it to the end of the gate. My longest extension handle was only
about 12 inches long. If you need longer extension handles you might want
to go with a thinner aluminum bar (i.e., 1/8" or 3/16" thick). To finish
off the end of each extension handle, I slipped on a nice-looking red
plastic handle grip that I bought from www.McMaster.com #9692K24.
McMaster-Carr has these handle grips available in several designer colors
(I.e., red, black, or white). Initially the handle grips were pretty hard
to slip over the end of the aluminum bar, but adding a few drops of blue
Loctite #242 thread locker into the end of the grip (as a temporary
lubricant) helped a lot. The extra weight of these aluminum extension
handles was offset by both the magnets and spring-plunger set-screws
previously described. The extension handles added a very nice finishing
touch to the gates.

14. Following another FOG recommendation, I bought an aluminum 5" duct
coupler (www.McMaster.com # 5518K14) and attached it with HVAC metal
ductwork tape to a Felder 120mm plastic quick-connector. After assembly, it
now fits both a 5" hose and the Felder 120mm port perfectly -- a very sweet
combination that looks & works great.

15. I'm now building a dust level monitor for my Oneida 35 gallon dust
collector drum. Per Art Pentz's recommendation from a while back, I
purchased a Series DBLM "Mini-Bin" Dry Bulk Level Monitor that I'll be
mounting on the dust collector drum. The monitor uses a small 120 volt
motor that rotates a small blade with paddles at 1 rpm. When the drum is
close to full, the paddle blade is stopped, a micro-switch then turns off
the power to the motor, and a second micro-switch turns on another device to
alert you that the bin is full. In my application, I'll be using that
second micro-switch to set off an LED strobe light mounted on the lid of the
dust collector drum. I purchased the motorized bulk level monitor (part #
DBLM3040) for $125 directly from www.dwyer-inst.com. The LED flashing
strobe light (part # LEDFL-RV350-ACA) cost $67 and was purchased from
www.safetylightsandsignals.com While the LED strobe light provides plenty
of attention-getting light for its purpose, it only consumes about 1/10th of
one amp at 120 volts so it shouldn't burn out the micro-switch which is only
rated for 3 amps. Yes, I could've instead wired in a relay to control a
higher amperage alerting device but I wanted to keep it all as simple as
possible and, for safety concerns, I also didn't want to create any
potential sparks near my dust collector. That said, the whole circuit is
pretty basic and intuitive to wire (the bulk level monitor comes packaged
with a color-coded wiring diagram). I'm also going to hook it up so that it
only receives power when the Oneida cyclone is actually running.

Hopefully at least a few of you folks will find some of the above info
helpful.

Best,

Bill

To start with, here's some thoughts about my recent Nordfab installation --
in no particular order...

1. Yes, Nordfab does cost "at least twice as much" as other ductwork
options. But it's easy to install; easy to make adjustments to reposition
pieces (or to rethink how you originally planned to layout a run); easy to
take apart to clear a clog; and, if you ever move your shop to another
address, most of the pieces of your system would be readily reusable. Plus
if you ever retire your woodworking shop (not that any of us will ever do
that), most of your Nordfab ductwork will still retain much of its value for
resale. For all of these reasons, I choose Nordfab and if I had to do it
again -- well, I would do it again.

2. Nordfab's catalog only shows 30 degree wye branches, but 45 degree wyes
are also readily available without any special order charges. They aren't
mentioned in their catalogs -- you just gotta ask for them. If you have a
relatively small workshop (like I have), using 45 degree wyes may help a lot
in laying out your dust collection system.

3. Nordfab's standard length pipes are about 60" in length. They also
offer what they call nipple pipes which are about 12" long. To create a pipe
less than 60" long, you cut off a section of the 60" pipe, and then slide it
into the 12" nipple pipe and secure it with a quick-clamp. All of this is
pretty common knowledge to anyone who has previously bought Nordfab
ductwork. But what I didn't initially know was that you can also special
order nipples that are "less than" 12" long -- for example, when you only
need a 7" long piece of quick-connect pipe for a particular location.
Actually you can special order lots of different connectors from Nordfab,
and if they're similar to any of Nordfab standard offerings then there may
not be any special charges. I found that to be surprising.

4. Whenever I had to shorten a pipe, I used a bench-mounted 14"
metal-cutting cut-off saw to slice through the Nordfab pipes (although I
didn't cut anything wider than 6" pipes). These are the cheap cut-off saws
that can be found at Home Depot and Lowes. Very easy to do -- I put a 4"
wide strip of cardboard around the entire pipe, marked it with a magic
marker where it needed to be cut, and then just 2 quick cuts for each pipe.
Lots of sparks that scared my wife, but it worked like a dream and cut
through the pipes like butter. Definitely wear goggles and a hat -- and if
you have a ceiling- mounted air cleaner, that helpful too! After each cut I
smoothed out the cut edges with a small grinding wheel mounted on the end of
a hand power drill.

5. I've discovered that it's not unusual for Nordfab to ship old inventory
first. But in all fairness to Nordfab, most companies probably have a
similar policy. For example, my first 7" quick-clamp arrived with a fairly
short handle that was close to impossible to close. When I called for
advice about how I could leverage the "too short handle" to close the
quick-clamp, Nordfab quickly shipped me a later model 7" quick-clamp (at no
charge) with a longer handle that was much easier to close. So when you
place your Nordfab order be sure to specify that you only want the "latest
available inventory" for each piece ordered. Hey, it may not actually
happen but it sure doesn't hurt to ask.

6. FYI -- In the last few months, Nordfab has introduced a new quick-clamp
for their system that provides a full 360 degree seal around the entire pipe
connection. Their old quick-connect clamp (which, of course, includes ALL
of the ones that I bought) didn't quite do a full seal (probably only about
95% to 98% although they still sealed quite tight with very little leakage).
So if you place a 2009 order, be sure that you specify that you want only
the newer clamps otherwise Nordfab might try to ship you some of their older
style clamps to clear out old inventory.

7. Most of Nordfab's independent dealers charge Nordfab's full list price,
and some may even add on extra charges for processing paperwork, etc.
Felder recommended contacting Doug Lippy with Industrial Corp. in Maryland,
and Doug is one of those Nordfab dealers that charges full list price.
Maybe at one time Doug gave Foggers a discount, but he apparently doesn't do
it anymore. In this tight economy you would think he would. So instead I
went with:

Kevin Bolland
Bolland Machine
2718 Darlington Rd.
Beaver Falls, PA 15010
Phone: 724-846-1290
Fax: 724-846-5253
kevin@...

Kevin had been previously recommended by several Foggers (that's how I found
him). He offers a 10% discount to FOG members (if you ask for it), and I've
found him to be both helpful & easy to work with. When I explained to him
what I was trying to do, he patiently listened & then offered suggestions &
solutions that saved me both money & future grief. And, in fact, several of
my tips in this post originated from Kevin. In addition to the 10%
discount, there also weren't any additional hidden charges for
consultations, handling the paperwork, shipping markups, etc. Kevin's a
good guy to do business with.

8. All orders are packed and shipped directly from Nordfab's facility in
North Carolina. So it really doesn't matter where a dealer is located:
you'll still pay the same shipping charges to your shop regardless of which
dealer you use. All of the truck and UPS shipments that I received from
Nordfab (without exception) were well packed and arrived without damage.
FYI -- I took advantage of a FREE SHIPPING offer that Nordfab had this past
December. That saved me a lot of money. I don't know if that was a
one-time free shipping offer -- or whether Nordfab will be doing it again if
the U.S. economy continues to tank. Does anyone know if Nordfab ever
offered this before?

9. Even though all of Nordfab's pipes and pieces will readily clamp
together without any tools needed, always wear leather-faced gloves when
doing your installation -- there are lots of tiny, unseen sharp metal edges
everywhere that will definitely cut up your hands (even if you're being
quite careful). I'm talking from experience here. I found a nice pair of
leather-faced gray mechanics gloves at Lowes for about $15.00 that fit like
a second skin and worked great to eliminate further cut hands.

10. There are lots of different ways to hang Nordfab ductwork from your
ceiling. I choose to use #2 Gripple hangers ( see www.gripple.com ) which
are rated to hang about 100 lbs. per Gripple. For those unfamiliar with
Gripples, they use a thin wire rope to hang the ductwork from your ceiling,
and they're designed to be easily re-adjusted/re-tensioned. That makes them
quick & easy to install and, if needed, to later easily re-adjust. The
Gripples that I bought came already attached to a small "L" bracket, and I
just screwed them into my basement ceiling joists. It was a very clean,
nice-looking installation. Gripples are available in several different
varieties and sizes, depending upon: how much weight they need to support,
how you'll attach them, and how long a support wire you'll need.

I used 5-foot long # HF-SEYE90G-NO2-5FT @ $5.35 each and I bought them in
late December '08 from:

Alan Manufacturing Inc.
3927 East Lincoln Way
Wooster, OH 44691
(800) 435-2526
Fax (877) 333-2526

Alan Manufacturing has Gripple info available at:
www.alanmfg.com/Catalog/Alan 2009 Catalog.pdf Their Web site doesn't take
orders, so you'll need to call them at their 800 number to place your order.
Be aware though that Alan Manufacturing isn't really set up for Web mail
orders and it may take them a few weeks to ship your order, but otherwise
they are reliable, honest, and they charge reasonable prices. Their
Gripples are normally sold in packages of 10 -- so I ordered 2 packs. Alan
Manufacturing was the only U.S. source who I found that sells and stocks
most of the various varieties of Gripples available -- although you might be
also able to find them elsewhere as well. When I searched the Web, Gripples
seemed to be more readily available in Europe than in the U.S.

11. I modified the Nordfab gates per a previous FOG posting (sorry that I
can't give credit to where its due since I forgot who posted it) --
"Disassemble a standard metal blast gate into its' 3 components. On one
side of the cast housing, drill 3 holes, 17/64 diameter through (one side
of) the housing. Locate these holes near the area where the thumb-screw
threads are. Reassemble the blast gate. Drop 1/4" rare earth magnets from
Lee Valley Tools into the holes. These magnets will stick to the gate
portion of the assembly and provide the same function as the thumbscrew".
That worked great -- many thanks for the tip! While the gates were
disassembled I smoothed out some of the rough edges on the sliding part to
make it slide a little better. I also substituted (on each gate) a steel
round-nose spring-plunger set-screw with a 1/4"-20 thread ( www.McMaster.com
#3126A142 ) for the gate's thumbscrew adjuster.

12. I installed all of my gates to be as close to my main line as
feasible -- as recommended by Bill Pentz. From what I understand, that
helps to prevent large quantities of debris from slamming into your cyclone
and then make its way into your filter(s) instead of your collection drum.
And it may also help your system to run better too. My Oneida cyclone is
only a 2 HP 230 volts single phase unit -- so anything that I could do to
help it function a little better became important to me.

13. I attached a short extension handle to each gate to make them easier to
reach & use. These handles were fabricated from a 1/4" x 1" wide aluminum
bar. I just cut the 5 foot long bars to the appropriate length needed, and
then bolted it to the end of the gate. My longest extension handle was only
about 12 inches long. If you need longer extension handles you might want
to go with a thinner aluminum bar (i.e., 1/8" or 3/16" thick). To finish
off the end of each extension handle, I slipped on a nice-looking red
plastic handle grip that I bought from www.McMaster.com #9692K24.
McMaster-Carr has these handle grips available in several designer colors
(I.e., red, black, or white). Initially the handle grips were pretty hard
to slip over the end of the aluminum bar, but adding a few drops of blue
Loctite #242 thread locker into the end of the grip (as a temporary
lubricant) helped a lot. The extra weight of these aluminum extension
handles was offset by both the magnets and spring-plunger set-screws
previously described. The extension handles added a very nice finishing
touch to the gates.

14. Following another FOG recommendation, I bought an aluminum 5" duct
coupler (www.McMaster.com # 5518K14) and attached it with HVAC metal
ductwork tape to a Felder 120mm plastic quick-connector. After assembly, it
now fits both a 5" hose and the Felder 120mm port perfectly -- a very sweet
combination that looks & works great.

15. I'm now building a dust level monitor for my Oneida 35 gallon dust
collector drum. Per Art Pentz's recommendation from a while back, I
purchased a Series DBLM "Mini-Bin" Dry Bulk Level Monitor that I'll be
mounting on the dust collector drum. The monitor uses a small 120 volt
motor that rotates a small blade with paddles at 1 rpm. When the drum is
close to full, the paddle blade is stopped, a micro-switch then turns off
the power to the motor, and a second micro-switch turns on another device to
alert you that the bin is full. In my application, I'll be using that
second micro-switch to set off an LED strobe light mounted on the lid of the
dust collector drum. I purchased the motorized bulk level monitor (part #
DBLM3040) for $125 directly from www.dwyer-inst.com. The LED flashing
strobe light (part # LEDFL-RV350-ACA) cost $67 and was purchased from
www.safetylightsandsignals.com While the LED strobe light provides plenty
of attention-getting light for its purpose, it only consumes about 1/10th of
one amp at 120 volts so it shouldn't burn out the micro-switch which is only
rated for 3 amps. Yes, I could've instead wired in a relay to control a
higher amperage alerting device but I wanted to keep it all as simple as
possible and, for safety concerns, I also didn't want to create any
potential sparks near my dust collector. That said, the whole circuit is
pretty basic and intuitive to wire (the bulk level monitor comes packaged
with a color-coded wiring diagram). I'm also going to hook it up so that it
only receives power when the Oneida cyclone is actually running.

Hopefully at least a few of you folks will find some of the above info
helpful.

Best,

Bill

Hello Group

I'm using my new K3 saw for the first time, and when powering up, there is a gentle quite loud hum while the button is depressed, but the motor doesn't seem to be springing into action, with no turning of the blade. Belt is intact. I suspect there is something I'm not attending to! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Best wishes,

Simon



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To: felder-woodworking@...
From: dbest@...
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 15:52:36 -0700
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Hammer B3 Slider Problem

Ian, my comments to Jerry were in no way intended to be critical toward you and your alignment process. I know you had alignment issues stemming from the trunion when the blade was tilted. However, for the average user who doesn't have such problems, starting to mess around with the pivot mechanism to align the slider trajectory is asking for more trouble than it's worth.

My K975 saw (which is the same basic platform as the Kappa 30 and Kappa 40) has a trunion pivot system derived from the Hammer line - dual pivot hinges hanging from the underside of the cast iron table, and I've gone at it "for kicks" just to see "how it's put together" and about 10 hours later was kicking myself for falling captive to the curiosity. My K975 does have "jacking screws" to adjust the slider trajectory (toe-out), but it's completely independent of the trunion mechanism.

I've experienced NO issues or problems with this "pivoting" trunion system, although I must admit that I had my reservations when I first saw it. In practice it's been just fine. It is curious to me that the newer double trunion on the 700-series is a conventional system of dual-tracked semicircular ways instead of the much simpler pivot mechanism on the Kappa 40 and Hammer lines. The newer 700-series shaper has the same semicircular pair of ways for a trunion, which is probably more robust to the nature of the forces endured by a shaper operation. I'm guessing (totally guessing) Felder did the shaper trunion design first and migrated it to the saw when re-engineering the trunions for the 700 series. I don't know if Felder makes the claim that the newer 700-series trunion keeps the zero-crossing line constant as the trunion is tilted.

I know Altendorf and Martin make such claims, and I've verified this as truth - at least on the Martin T74. The Martin T60 uses a microcomputer to calculate the current zero-crossing line as the trunion is tilted and offsets the crosscut stops and rip fence position readouts accordingly. The Altendorf dual-way trunion mechanism fully compensates mechanically for zero-crossing line displacement as it tilts. But since I've never been a fan of the roller-skate mechanism that provides for a sliding table on the Altendorf line, I've never given that machine much due, although I will say that their trunion system - when pulled out of the chassis and put under glass at the shows - looks positively bomb proof.

I'll be interested to see what the Kappa 400 system has, and surprised if they migrated away from the pivot system for the trunion. Obviously the parallelogram outrigger table on the new 400 is a derivative of the same feature that's been available on the Martin sliding saws for over a decade (at probably five times the cost). Did Felder have the courage to implement for the 400-serise a conventional dual-way trunion too? Now I'm wondering if I've devolved into counting angels on the head of a pin - again.

David Best

On May 5, 2012, at 10:17 AM, ondablade wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me David if it's the case that Felder would prefer that the blade tilt hinge mounting on the K3 is not disturbed by owners.

That said my saw was showing about a .010in difference in toe out when the blade was tilted from 90 deg to 45 deg as received. It really wasn't an option to leave it that way, and the only obviously available adjustment seemed to be to shim the in feed end trunnion down a hair. (the presence of what looks like a shim in this location in the parts manual suggests that this is how Felder do it)

The saw spindle assembly is hinged from the table, so it presumably was that way from the factory. The table and the slider were significantly misaligned too, but not in ways that would have disturbed the above. i.e. toe out measured with a dial gauge off the slider was within the spec quoted in the set up guide when the blade was at 90 deg, but as above well off at 45 deg.

One factor on the K3 (being a more budget model than some) is that the blade tilt uses a fairly basic hinge mechanism rather than a trunnion set per se. This places the blade tilting axis some small distance (maybe 6mm?) below the surface of the table.

I'm no expert, but a little thought suggests that a full trunnion set up would make it possible that the tilt axis could run precisely on the line where the plane of the table surface, and the 'non-offcut' face of the saw blade intersect.

Which if accurately enough placed would open the way to the possibility that the 'zero' of the cross cut scale would not be disturbed, and the toe out would remain more or less at the vertical setting as the blade tilted.

Given such a set up it'd make a lot of sense to avoid disturbing these alignments, and to stay with the slider to set toe out. More upmarket saws of course have a jacking screw that make this alignment easier too.

That's not the situation on the K3 though, and i'm not sure that it's such a big deal on it...

ian

--- In felder-woodworking@..., "David P. Best" <dbest@...> wrote:

For slider toe-out, I'd like to discourage you from moving the pivot blocks for the saw trunion, and encourage you to adjust the lower rail of the sliding table instead. If you mess with with the trunion, you're likely to have misalignment issues when you tilt the saw blade.

David Best

On May 4, 2012, at 5:55 AM, Jerry wrote:

I removed the slider table from the bottom mount. I wanted to check out everything and no problems were found. The rails and bearing were very clean. The bearing carriage was not centered. It is now centered and comes about 1" from the each end durring a full stroke. I was adjusting the bearing rails at the front where the lateral play was high. Now that the bearing are correctly positioned I thighten up the rails where the bearing carriage is when getting the large movement. That took care of the lateral play problem. It is had to believe that a 230mm long bearing carriage will handle a 1250mm slider but it does.

I now will move on to the slider toe out after I do all the checks you suggested. I think I will try Ian's method and adjust the front saw mounting bracket.

Thanks for getting me on the right track. I will wait for your next batch of BBAS-2416-RED squares to fine tune my crosscut fence...

Jerry P

------------------------------------

To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@...

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Visit the FOG photo library at

FOG Amazon link: - Support the FOG with purchases at Amazon.
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Ian, my comments to Jerry were in no way intended to be critical toward you and your alignment process. I know you had alignment issues stemming from the trunion when the blade was tilted. However, for the average user who doesn't have such problems, starting to mess around with the pivot mechanism to align the slider trajectory is asking for more trouble than it's worth.

My K975 saw (which is the same basic platform as the Kappa 30 and Kappa 40) has a trunion pivot system derived from the Hammer line - dual pivot hinges hanging from the underside of the cast iron table, and I've gone at it "for kicks" just to see "how it's put together" and about 10 hours later was kicking myself for falling captive to the curiosity. My K975 does have "jacking screws" to adjust the slider trajectory (toe-out), but it's completely independent of the trunion mechanism.

I've experienced NO issues or problems with this "pivoting" trunion system, although I must admit that I had my reservations when I first saw it. In practice it's been just fine. It is curious to me that the newer double trunion on the 700-series is a conventional system of dual-tracked semicircular ways instead of the much simpler pivot mechanism on the Kappa 40 and Hammer lines. The newer 700-series shaper has the same semicircular pair of ways for a trunion, which is probably more robust to the nature of the forces endured by a shaper operation. I'm guessing (totally guessing) Felder did the shaper trunion design first and migrated it to the saw when re-engineering the trunions for the 700 series. I don't know if Felder makes the claim that the newer 700-series trunion keeps the zero-crossing line constant as the trunion is tilted.

I know Altendorf and Martin make such claims, and I've verified this as truth - at least on the Martin T74. The Martin T60 uses a microcomputer to calculate the current zero-crossing line as the trunion is tilted and offsets the crosscut stops and rip fence position readouts accordingly. The Altendorf dual-way trunion mechanism fully compensates mechanically for zero-crossing line displacement as it tilts. But since I've never been a fan of the roller-skate mechanism that provides for a sliding table on the Altendorf line, I've never given that machine much due, although I will say that their trunion system - when pulled out of the chassis and put under glass at the shows - looks positively bomb proof.

I'll be interested to see what the Kappa 400 system has, and surprised if they migrated away from the pivot system for the trunion. Obviously the parallelogram outrigger table on the new 400 is a derivative of the same feature that's been available on the Martin sliding saws for over a decade (at probably five times the cost). Did Felder have the courage to implement for the 400-serise a conventional dual-way trunion too? Now I'm wondering if I've devolved into counting angels on the head of a pin - again.

David Best

On May 5, 2012, at 10:17 AM, ondablade wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me David if it's the case that Felder would prefer that the blade tilt hinge mounting on the K3 is not disturbed by owners.

That said my saw was showing about a .010in difference in toe out when the blade was tilted from 90 deg to 45 deg as received. It really wasn't an option to leave it that way, and the only obviously available adjustment seemed to be to shim the in feed end trunnion down a hair. (the presence of what looks like a shim in this location in the parts manual suggests that this is how Felder do it)

The saw spindle assembly is hinged from the table, so it presumably was that way from the factory. The table and the slider were significantly misaligned too, but not in ways that would have disturbed the above. i.e. toe out measured with a dial gauge off the slider was within the spec quoted in the set up guide when the blade was at 90 deg, but as above well off at 45 deg.

One factor on the K3 (being a more budget model than some) is that the blade tilt uses a fairly basic hinge mechanism rather than a trunnion set per se. This places the blade tilting axis some small distance (maybe 6mm?) below the surface of the table.

I'm no expert, but a little thought suggests that a full trunnion set up would make it possible that the tilt axis could run precisely on the line where the plane of the table surface, and the 'non-offcut' face of the saw blade intersect.

Which if accurately enough placed would open the way to the possibility that the 'zero' of the cross cut scale would not be disturbed, and the toe out would remain more or less at the vertical setting as the blade tilted.

Given such a set up it'd make a lot of sense to avoid disturbing these alignments, and to stay with the slider to set toe out. More upmarket saws of course have a jacking screw that make this alignment easier too.

That's not the situation on the K3 though, and i'm not sure that it's such a big deal on it...

ian

--- In felder-woodworking@..., "David P. Best" <dbest@> wrote:

For slider toe-out, I'd like to discourage you from moving the pivot blocks for the saw trunion, and encourage you to adjust the lower rail of the sliding table instead. If you mess with with the trunion, you're likely to have misalignment issues when you tilt the saw blade.

David Best

On May 4, 2012, at 5:55 AM, Jerry wrote:

I removed the slider table from the bottom mount. I wanted to check out everything and no problems were found. The rails and bearing were very clean. The bearing carriage was not centered. It is now centered and comes about 1" from the each end durring a full stroke. I was adjusting the bearing rails at the front where the lateral play was high. Now that the bearing are correctly positioned I thighten up the rails where the bearing carriage is when getting the large movement. That took care of the lateral play problem. It is had to believe that a 230mm long bearing carriage will handle a 1250mm slider but it does.

I now will move on to the slider toe out after I do all the checks you suggested. I think I will try Ian's method and adjust the front saw mounting bracket.

Thanks for getting me on the right track. I will wait for your next batch of BBAS-2416-RED squares to fine tune my crosscut fence...

Jerry P

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]