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Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

The Freeborn sets cut both the groove and tongue to length.? You can exchange ( at least in the past ) the standard 3/8 center pieces for ? or 5/8" deep ones.? I'm not convinced the longer groove weakens the joint.? Extending the groove past the profile beds the tongue in the stronger section.? I seldom use 3/4" stock though unless building with Hickory as it is hard to find in 5/4 here.

Dave

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2025 6:54 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
That is super nice James. Attention to detail like chamfering the groove and slight nibs on the tongue are very nice. Not to mention the variable groove/tongue width. Bit more expensive than the Freeborn tooling I was looking at around $800-$900 which did not have the adjustable groove/tongue.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 10:45?PM, James Zhu via groups.io <james.zhu2@...> wrote:

?
Whitehill's cabinet door cutter head set has a 15mm deep groove/tongue,?looks nice.


<cutter.jpg>

James

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 10:10?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Lucky,

I believe you are correct that with 3/4¡± thickness, deeper than 3/8¡± could potentially have issues. I was asked to duplicate a sample and in this case the rear lip of the groove is only 1/8¡± thick.

However, since most of us can choose the stile/rail thickness, carrying out custom work, I would prefer deeper groove. You and David K have provided some ideas that I can work with in future. Thank you.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 8:09?PM, David Luckensmeyer via <david=[email protected]> wrote:

?
Hi Imran:

Do you think the standard 1/4 x 3/8 has to do with mass production using 3/4 material? At 1/4 wide, that leaves only 1/4 of material on either side of the groove, assuming the groove is centred. If the groove is deepened beyond 3/8, the material ¡°shoulder¡± becomes more and more fragile.?

I like working with thicker material and deeper grooves and tongues. Consequently I had Greg at Rangate make me a cabinet shaker set that works with material from 19-30mm (approx) and has a 15mm deep groove/tongue.?

Alternatively, in cases where a squared look is wanted/acceptable, I like using 25-30mm material and using an adjustable groover to go much deeper, say 25-30mm deep. Cheers.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Philip Snyder via <pswoodworking=[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2025 8:17:38 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
When I have crafted doors and full raised panels for entry doors, any deeper wider dadoes with floating panels I have bought sheets of thick rubber to address the issue and works fine. I like the idea of balls not rolling away, I¡¯ll have to try that type. Cheers





Inset drawer lighting

 

I am finishing up my window build and moving towards planning on the kitchen. One of the questions I have is what is what to do with inset drawer lighting. It seems like everything is geared toward frameless. Thoughts?
?
--
Stan Blaszczyk
Causal Maker of Stuff
Cincinnati, OH
Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Trimming Rails and stiles to length

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I wonder if this got lost due to title being long. Would like some feedback on how everyone is trimming the rail and stile stock. Please see the original msg below.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 2, 2025, at 5:02?PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?
I processed long lengths of rail and stile material. The best way for me to cut them to length without any tears is the thumbnail (qtr round) profile was to run another length of same thickness through the coping bit. I inserted this counter profile into the rail and stile material and cut them to length on the saw. This did require one side cut upside down, but that was not an issue with my 90 some tooth xcut blade.

It took a bit of time to do this. Is there a more efficient way?

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations
Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

That is super nice James. Attention to detail like chamfering the groove and slight nibs on the tongue are very nice. Not to mention the variable groove/tongue width. Bit more expensive than the Freeborn tooling I was looking at around $800-$900 which did not have the adjustable groove/tongue.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 10:45?PM, James Zhu via groups.io <james.zhu2@...> wrote:

?
Whitehill's cabinet door cutter head set has a 15mm deep groove/tongue,?looks nice.


<cutter.jpg>

James

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 10:10?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Lucky,

I believe you are correct that with 3/4¡± thickness, deeper than 3/8¡± could potentially have issues. I was asked to duplicate a sample and in this case the rear lip of the groove is only 1/8¡± thick.

However, since most of us can choose the stile/rail thickness, carrying out custom work, I would prefer deeper groove. You and David K have provided some ideas that I can work with in future. Thank you.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 8:09?PM, David Luckensmeyer via <david=[email protected]> wrote:

?
Hi Imran:

Do you think the standard 1/4 x 3/8 has to do with mass production using 3/4 material? At 1/4 wide, that leaves only 1/4 of material on either side of the groove, assuming the groove is centred. If the groove is deepened beyond 3/8, the material ¡°shoulder¡± becomes more and more fragile.?

I like working with thicker material and deeper grooves and tongues. Consequently I had Greg at Rangate make me a cabinet shaker set that works with material from 19-30mm (approx) and has a 15mm deep groove/tongue.?

Alternatively, in cases where a squared look is wanted/acceptable, I like using 25-30mm material and using an adjustable groover to go much deeper, say 25-30mm deep. Cheers.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Philip Snyder via <pswoodworking=[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2025 8:17:38 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
When I have crafted doors and full raised panels for entry doors, any deeper wider dadoes with floating panels I have bought sheets of thick rubber to address the issue and works fine. I like the idea of balls not rolling away, I¡¯ll have to try that type. Cheers





Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

Whitehill's cabinet door cutter head set has a 15mm deep groove/tongue,?looks nice.


cutter.jpg
James


On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 10:10?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Lucky,

I believe you are correct that with 3/4¡± thickness, deeper than 3/8¡± could potentially have issues. I was asked to duplicate a sample and in this case the rear lip of the groove is only 1/8¡± thick.

However, since most of us can choose the stile/rail thickness, carrying out custom work, I would prefer deeper groove. You and David K have provided some ideas that I can work with in future. Thank you.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 8:09?PM, David Luckensmeyer via <david=[email protected]> wrote:

?
Hi Imran:

Do you think the standard 1/4 x 3/8 has to do with mass production using 3/4 material? At 1/4 wide, that leaves only 1/4 of material on either side of the groove, assuming the groove is centred. If the groove is deepened beyond 3/8, the material ¡°shoulder¡± becomes more and more fragile.?

I like working with thicker material and deeper grooves and tongues. Consequently I had Greg at Rangate make me a cabinet shaker set that works with material from 19-30mm (approx) and has a 15mm deep groove/tongue.?

Alternatively, in cases where a squared look is wanted/acceptable, I like using 25-30mm material and using an adjustable groover to go much deeper, say 25-30mm deep. Cheers.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Philip Snyder via <pswoodworking=[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2025 8:17:38 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
When I have crafted doors and full raised panels for entry doors, any deeper wider dadoes with floating panels I have bought sheets of thick rubber to address the issue and works fine. I like the idea of balls not rolling away, I¡¯ll have to try that type. Cheers





Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Lucky,

I believe you are correct that with 3/4¡± thickness, deeper than 3/8¡± could potentially have issues. I was asked to duplicate a sample and in this case the rear lip of the groove is only 1/8¡± thick.

However, since most of us can choose the stile/rail thickness, carrying out custom work, I would prefer deeper groove. You and David K have provided some ideas that I can work with in future. Thank you.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 8:09?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <david@...> wrote:

?
Hi Imran:

Do you think the standard 1/4 x 3/8 has to do with mass production using 3/4 material? At 1/4 wide, that leaves only 1/4 of material on either side of the groove, assuming the groove is centred. If the groove is deepened beyond 3/8, the material ¡°shoulder¡± becomes more and more fragile.?

I like working with thicker material and deeper grooves and tongues. Consequently I had Greg at Rangate make me a cabinet shaker set that works with material from 19-30mm (approx) and has a 15mm deep groove/tongue.?

Alternatively, in cases where a squared look is wanted/acceptable, I like using 25-30mm material and using an adjustable groover to go much deeper, say 25-30mm deep. Cheers.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Philip Snyder via groups.io <pswoodworking@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2025 8:17:38 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
When I have crafted doors and full raised panels for entry doors, any deeper wider dadoes with floating panels I have bought sheets of thick rubber to address the issue and works fine. I like the idea of balls not rolling away, I¡¯ll have to try that type. Cheers





Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Imran:

Do you think the standard 1/4 x 3/8 has to do with mass production using 3/4 material? At 1/4 wide, that leaves only 1/4 of material on either side of the groove, assuming the groove is centred. If the groove is deepened beyond 3/8, the material ¡°shoulder¡± becomes more and more fragile.?

I like working with thicker material and deeper grooves and tongues. Consequently I had Greg at Rangate make me a cabinet shaker set that works with material from 19-30mm (approx) and has a 15mm deep groove/tongue.?

Alternatively, in cases where a squared look is wanted/acceptable, I like using 25-30mm material and using an adjustable groover to go much deeper, say 25-30mm deep. Cheers.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer?
Designer & Maker
@luckensmeyer
M: 0413 013 115

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Philip Snyder via groups.io <pswoodworking@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2025 8:17:38 AM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
When I have crafted doors and full raised panels for entry doors, any deeper wider dadoes with floating panels I have bought sheets of thick rubber to address the issue and works fine. I like the idea of balls not rolling away, I¡¯ll have to try that type. Cheers





Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

?Thanks Dave. I have heard about the use of tubing from quite a few. After this experience, as I mentioned in my earlier response and you commented that a deeper groove allows more choices.

I was looking for an economical option for this project and this set worked but wanted to learn from it. As you stated 1/4¡±x3/8¡± seems to be very common and I was not sure if the reason behind it. Maybe just economics.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 2:37?PM, David Kumm via groups.io <davekumm@...> wrote:

?
I just use 1/4" OD clear tubing from the hardware store.? I cut short pieces and size the tongue to compress the tubing just enough to center the panels.? The raised portion of the panel sides must have enough clearance so when the panel expands, the raised part doesn't push against the frame.? I like a 5/8" deep groove and a 7/16 tongue and the panel sized so there is 1/32" for the panel to move on either side.? I use the same 1/4" OD in my passage doors with 1/2" thick grooves.? I've never had a panel move 1/16" so there is leeway to my numbers.

I don't know why 1/4x3/8 seems to be a standard when a longer tongue and groove adds strength and looks better.

Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...>
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2025 1:23 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
Thanks Steve. Will have to try next time. I am thinking that tooling with 1/2¡± groove will provide more flexibility because the panel tongue (inserted into the groove portion) can be anything beyond the minimum, in my mind, of 1/4¡±.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 8:27?AM, Steve Rowe via groups.io <steverowe734@...> wrote:

?
I have used both space balls and panel buddies.? My preference is panel buddies as they are much more forgiving when clamping and don't roll all over the place when they fall on the floor.
Steve
Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

When I have crafted doors and full raised panels for entry doors, any deeper wider dadoes with floating panels I have bought sheets of thick rubber to address the issue and works fine. I like the idea of balls not rolling away, I¡¯ll have to try that type. Cheers
Re: Hello everyone.

 
Edited

Wow, what incredible craftsmanship!! I don't smoke cigars, but would happily have one of those on my desk! :)
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I just use 1/4" OD clear tubing from the hardware store.? I cut short pieces and size the tongue to compress the tubing just enough to center the panels.? The raised portion of the panel sides must have enough clearance so when the panel expands, the raised part doesn't push against the frame.? I like a 5/8" deep groove and a 7/16 tongue and the panel sized so there is 1/32" for the panel to move on either side.? I use the same 1/4" OD in my passage doors with 1/2" thick grooves.? I've never had a panel move 1/16" so there is leeway to my numbers.

I don't know why 1/4x3/8 seems to be a standard when a longer tongue and groove adds strength and looks better.

Dave

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...>
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2025 1:23 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove
?
Thanks Steve. Will have to try next time. I am thinking that tooling with 1/2¡± groove will provide more flexibility because the panel tongue (inserted into the groove portion) can be anything beyond the minimum, in my mind, of 1/4¡±.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 8:27?AM, Steve Rowe via groups.io <steverowe734@...> wrote:

?
I have used both space balls and panel buddies.? My preference is panel buddies as they are much more forgiving when clamping and don't roll all over the place when they fall on the floor.
Steve
Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks Steve. Will have to try next time. I am thinking that tooling with 1/2¡± groove will provide more flexibility because the panel tongue (inserted into the groove portion) can be anything beyond the minimum, in my mind, of 1/4¡±.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 3, 2025, at 8:27?AM, Steve Rowe via groups.io <steverowe734@...> wrote:

?
I have used both space balls and panel buddies.? My preference is panel buddies as they are much more forgiving when clamping and don't roll all over the place when they fall on the floor.
Steve
Re: Hello everyone.

 

Spanish cedar is a commercial wood and is readily available.? I bought some for a boat project and my local Hardwood Industries had it on the shelf.? Easy to work with but soft and not overly expensive.
?
But you made me curious. ?Cedrela odorata is actually a broadleaf related to mahogany, not at all similar to western red or eastern or yellow or incense or Lebanese or...??
?
Kind of like calling out Douglas Fir as Oregon Pine.??
?
I really like Dali's mustache. Nice work.
Re: Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops

 

my wife and I just built. I went with all blue star appliances in black.?


48¡± range has been amazing. My propane pressure is a little high so the service guys had to change out some of the orifices.?

the double wall oven came DoA the bottom oven wouldn¡¯t heat. Needed a new control board. Since then it¡¯s work good. I would say it¡¯s not the most even for multitrack cooking. IMO wolf has more even cooking for the electric ovens.?

don¡¯t have any induction experience. Coming from a commercial kitchen I¡¯m used to gas and wanted to stick with it.?
Re: Hello everyone.

 

I'm so glad you liked it. I got the Spanish cedar from a local seller but I'm in T¨¹rkiye?
--
Burak ³Ò¨¹°ù±ð°ù
T¨¹rkiye (sahibi ?lan 951-K740S-FB710)
gurerwoodcraft/Instagram?
Re: Hello everyone.

 

Amazing detailed work...that is a beautiful cigar box!
Re: Processing Rails & Stiles for Cabinet Doors: Space Balls compatibility with 3/8¡± groove

 

I have used both space balls and panel buddies.? My preference is panel buddies as they are much more forgiving when clamping and don't roll all over the place when they fall on the floor.
Steve
Re: Hello everyone.

 

Very nice work, I make some Cigar Boxes also and currently struggling to source true "spanish Cedar". Can you post where you got the wood from?.?

Link to my landing page? -?

Thanks for posting

Colum O'Donovan
+971 50 2677427
CF741, FB510 & 710, AD741, K700S, AF22's and RL160.

On Fri, Jan 3, 2025 at 10:49?AM ³Ò¨¹°ù±ð°ù via <gurerwoodcraft=[email protected]> wrote:
Woods of various thicknesses are used in marquetry. We also work with 1 and 2 millimeters. What you see in this image is 0.6 millimeters.
--
Burak ³Ò¨¹°ù±ð°ù
T¨¹rkiye (sahibi ?lan 951-K740S-FB710)
gurerwoodcraft/Instagram?
Re: Hello everyone.

 

Woods of various thicknesses are used in marquetry. We also work with 1 and 2 millimeters. What you see in this image is 0.6 millimeters.
--
Burak ³Ò¨¹°ù±ð°ù
T¨¹rkiye (sahibi ?lan 951-K740S-FB710)
gurerwoodcraft/Instagram?
Re: Hello everyone.

 

On Thu, Jan 2, 2025 at 02:59 PM, ³Ò¨¹°ù±ð°ù wrote:
Yes, it was made by hand
I'm curious, how thick is the wood you use when you're doing an inlay like this?? My impression is that some people work with extremely thin veneers when doing a project like this, while others choose to use wood that's several millimeters thick.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
1961 - 1980 of 140895