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Jason, you do beautiful work. I enjoy seeing your projects on FB
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It looks to me like the band is copper, quite likely very thin too. On top of that is the fact that it is recessed in the edge, so any amount of movement is likely hidden.
As for the base, perhaps you could shape and taper your staves first then biscuit them for alignment and glue up with some plywood rings, not unlike how a cooper would make a barrel.
I will be interested to hear which way you approach it and how you get on.
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
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Jason,
?
Seems like that formula is missing a weight component.? My mom had a 72" dia kitchen table with a cast iron pedestal that was about 24" dia.? It was stable because the pedestal was wicked heavy with most of the weight at the base.? ? Picture a 50lb child climbing up on the table next to a case of red wine. If the proportions look good to you, add the sand tubes.
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Imran,
Long stock has its challenges too. We all know the Felder jointer is perfect for spring joints, even though 99.9999% people just want the damn flat result, LOL.
James
On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 11:19?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi James,
I failed to mention that what I stated has happened to me multiple times with long stock 8-10 ft. I tried my best to vary PF angle, which is not hard to do, with no 100% guarantees.
In general, during stock prep, if the boards allows I keep them long. On my current project, I had 6 ~10¡¯ sticks and various other length amounting to over 150¡¯ total. I ran this 2.25¡± wide stock (small amount of 1.25¡± wide stock for short drawers) with no issues and it took much less time than having to feed shorter pieces.
Anyhow, as I mentioned to Cornelius, and Joe confirmed, these are not required. There are lots of ways to get the job done. Including the use of various jigs like the one you shared.
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?
Imran,
It is interesting that what I found is that the trailing end sometimes actually gets pulled into the cutter a little bit for the short piece.
Aigner accessories are nice and expensive. But things can get done without it. I really like the Bradshaw joinery?youtube channel, he does not have Aigner gears, but he does beautiful work. Here below he talked about the false fence on the shaper.
James
On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 9:54?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=
[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Cornelius,
Felder in USA, does sell Aigner pressure modules and the associated wheels. As for PF being enough, well it is most of the times. When edge profiling, the trailing end sometimes moves away from the cutter.?It usually is not a concern if the end can be trimmed but sometimes that is not an option.?It is common to use an outboard fence to avoid this, so that is an option.
They are still useful when PF is not an option. I don¡¯t have PF on my saw and band saw.
Lots of people do good work without these so I would not call them a necessity. Besides being not readily available they are also expensive, so you may consider starting without them and determine if you need them or not. I do not know if you are a hobby or a commercial user and that makes a difference as well.
One thing is for sure, the FOG moto can easily be, ¡°We help you spend your money¡± ?
?
Thank you all for your feedback.?
?
Imran, you use the pressure rollers in conjunction with your power feeder? I am only now ordering my power feeder and was under the impression that it would provide sufficient pressure against the fence, if set up properly? Purchasing pressure rollers and the necessary p-channel adapters, mounting bars, etc would be a whole new consideration for me. Not to mention that I live in a country (island) where nothing is available locally and since Felder does not sell these Aigner items, I would need to first find a suitable place to purchase from. Where I live you cannot even buy the Felder recommended EP2 grease locally, everything has to be imported (so a tube of grease ends up costing 40-50Euro).
?
Cornelius
Cyprus
Re: How to connect a 400-800 Morticing unit to a Felder BF5-31
Hi David,
?
I think you may be missing an adaptor plate that bolts on to the main machine.? Mine is a CF741 so a little later model but the pins on your mortiser look similar.? The ends of the adaptor's Kipp leavers drop into the cavity of the mortiser's alignment pins.? The leaver ends are eccentric and pull the rig tight to the main machine.?
?
 ? ?? 
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Hi James,
I failed to mention that what I stated has happened to me multiple times with long stock 8-10 ft. I tried my best to vary PF angle, which is not hard to do, with no 100% guarantees.
In general, during stock prep, if the boards allows I keep them long. On my current project, I had 6 ~10¡¯ sticks and various other length amounting to over 150¡¯ total. I ran this 2.25¡± wide stock (small amount of 1.25¡± wide stock for short drawers) with no issues and it took much less time than having to feed shorter pieces.
Anyhow, as I mentioned to Cornelius, and Joe confirmed, these are not required. There are lots of ways to get the job done. Including the use of various jigs like the one you shared. |
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Show quoted text
On Dec 18, 2024, at 10:28?AM, James Zhu via groups.io <james.zhu2@...> wrote:
?
Imran,
It is interesting that what I found is that the trailing end sometimes actually gets pulled into the cutter a little bit for the short piece.
Aigner accessories are nice and expensive. But things can get done without it. I really like the Bradshaw joinery?youtube channel, he does not have Aigner gears, but he does beautiful work. Here below he talked about the false fence on the shaper.
James
On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 9:54?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=
[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Cornelius,
Felder in USA, does sell Aigner pressure modules and the associated wheels. As for PF being enough, well it is most of the times. When edge profiling, the trailing end sometimes moves away from the cutter.?It usually is not a concern if the end can be trimmed but sometimes that is not an option.?It is common to use an outboard fence to avoid this, so that is an option.
They are still useful when PF is not an option. I don¡¯t have PF on my saw and band saw.
Lots of people do good work without these so I would not call them a necessity. Besides being not readily available they are also expensive, so you may consider starting without them and determine if you need them or not. I do not know if you are a hobby or a commercial user and that makes a difference as well.
One thing is for sure, the FOG moto can easily be, ¡°We help you spend your money¡± ?
?
Thank you all for your feedback.?
?
Imran, you use the pressure rollers in conjunction with your power feeder? I am only now ordering my power feeder and was under the impression that it would provide sufficient pressure against the fence, if set up properly? Purchasing pressure rollers and the necessary p-channel adapters, mounting bars, etc would be a whole new consideration for me. Not to mention that I live in a country (island) where nothing is available locally and since Felder does not sell these Aigner items, I would need to first find a suitable place to purchase from. Where I live you cannot even buy the Felder recommended EP2 grease locally, everything has to be imported (so a tube of grease ends up costing 40-50Euro).
?
Cornelius
Cyprus
Imran,
It is interesting that what I found is that the trailing end sometimes actually gets pulled into the cutter a little bit for the short piece.
Aigner accessories are nice and expensive. But things can get done without it. I really like the Bradshaw joinery?youtube channel, he does not have Aigner gears, but he does beautiful work. Here below he talked about the false fence on the shaper.
James
On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 9:54?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Cornelius,
Felder in USA, does sell Aigner pressure modules and the associated wheels. As for PF being enough, well it is most of the times. When edge profiling, the trailing end sometimes moves away from the cutter.?It usually is not a concern if the end can be trimmed but sometimes that is not an option.?It is common to use an outboard fence to avoid this, so that is an option.
They are still useful when PF is not an option. I don¡¯t have PF on my saw and band saw.
Lots of people do good work without these so I would not call them a necessity. Besides being not readily available they are also expensive, so you may consider starting without them and determine if you need them or not. I do not know if you are a hobby or a commercial user and that makes a difference as well.
One thing is for sure, the FOG moto can easily be, ¡°We help you spend your money¡± ? ? Thank you all for your feedback.?
?
Imran, you use the pressure rollers in conjunction with your power feeder? I am only now ordering my power feeder and was under the impression that it would provide sufficient pressure against the fence, if set up properly? Purchasing pressure rollers and the necessary p-channel adapters, mounting bars, etc would be a whole new consideration for me. Not to mention that I live in a country (island) where nothing is available locally and since Felder does not sell these Aigner items, I would need to first find a suitable place to purchase from. Where I live you cannot even buy the Felder recommended EP2 grease locally, everything has to be imported (so a tube of grease ends up costing 40-50Euro).
?
Cornelius
Cyprus
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Yes, metal banding could be a problem. Here below is Michael Fortune's cherry and ebony hall table with the waterfall edge. The way he built the base is very creative. The top is a hollow torsion box with veneer. You can find all the posts related to this table build from Peter Rodin's instagram account, he used to work for Michael Fortune.? Maybe you can borrow some ideas from his build.  James
On Wed, Dec 18, 2024 at 8:48?AM Marlowe McGraw via <marlomcgraw= [email protected]> wrote: Jason,
I'd say if the client was good with the circular base, stick with that and save yourself some serious head scratching.??
I think a challenge that?you'll have is glueing up of pre-shaped tapered staves. I did a series of stave built columns that ended up as cylinders.? I left the staves flat and shaped after glueing them up.? I used 3/4 steel strap, double crimped, and wedges pointing in opposite directions. I went round the circle tapping each one until tight.? Maybe some version of that for your project?
The metal banding might be another?challenge with the seasonal movement of the wood.
Looks like a fun project!
Marlowe McGraw
My next commission is to build a walnut dining table with an elliptical top 42x80" and a tapered scalloped base.?
This is a fun challenge. Surely involves custom shaper knives and an elaborate jig to hold the staves at an angle while running the cove cuts. Looking for advice on whether the base should also be an ellipse, or if round with some additional support in the long dimension at the top, ie. a rail or pair of rails that bisect the top of the base. I'm assuming I ballast the thing with a few hundred pounds of sand tubes inside.?
I found a formula for pedestals that is diameter/2 + 2" which would be 23" on this...or 23" x 42" if an oval.
?
What say you?
?
Thanks
Jason
?
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Cornelius
I use shapers daily in my shop. The pressure rollers are not used for normal feeding of stile and rail parts of all sizes when used in conjunction with the power feed. Occasionally when running special mouldings using corrugated cutters I will use them for additional pressure. If you don¡¯t have a feeder that turns easily to the fence face the rollers can be used in conjunction with the feeder. For example feeding 3/4 X 6 or 8¡± tall material vertical agains the fence. Just using the feeder on top of the material and the rollers to keep pressure against the fence.
So to answer your question they don¡¯t get used a lot in my shop but certainly handy when you need them.
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Hi Cornelius,
Felder in USA, does sell Aigner pressure modules and the associated wheels. As for PF being enough, well it is most of the times. When edge profiling, the trailing end sometimes moves away from the cutter.?It usually is not a concern if the end can be trimmed but sometimes that is not an option.?It is common to use an outboard fence to avoid this, so that is an option.
They are still useful when PF is not an option. I don¡¯t have PF on my saw and band saw.
Lots of people do good work without these so I would not call them a necessity. Besides being not readily available they are also expensive, so you may consider starting without them and determine if you need them or not. I do not know if you are a hobby or a commercial user and that makes a difference as well.
One thing is for sure, the FOG moto can easily be, ¡°We help you spend your money¡± ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 18, 2024, at 4:40?AM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote: ? Thank you all for your feedback.?
?
Imran, you use the pressure rollers in conjunction with your power feeder? I am only now ordering my power feeder and was under the impression that it would provide sufficient pressure against the fence, if set up properly? Purchasing pressure rollers and the necessary p-channel adapters, mounting bars, etc would be a whole new consideration for me. Not to mention that I live in a country (island) where nothing is available locally and since Felder does not sell these Aigner items, I would need to first find a suitable place to purchase from. Where I live you cannot even buy the Felder recommended EP2 grease locally, everything has to be imported (so a tube of grease ends up costing 40-50Euro).
?
Cornelius
Cyprus
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Hey Jason,?
I personally would build it in the process? KP outlined. This looks super fun! Keep us updated on the progress.?
Jarrett
Jason,
?
Will be a thing of beauty once done!? I personally like the rounded base approach with a tapered top...if going this approach, can you (i) cut all the staves the same width (top + bottom), (ii) run the coves on the shaper, and then (iii) taper the staves on a slider?? The inside of the staves will be flat and can facilitate supports/cross braces to provide structural integrity along with metal plates to weigh it down.? There is some math there with regards to the angle of the taper cuts and the bevel angle.
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Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Hey Michael,
?
I just installed a DC system and sourced all of my quick connect ducting from the Blast Gate Co. () in Michigan.? They are incredibly well priced vs. others and were able to make custom reducers from imperial to metric and also carried metric hose to make connections to my machines (AD741, FB510, K700S, F700Z, HS950) easy.?
?
Regarding your inlet being 160mm, Blast Gate can make a custom fitting/machine adaptor for this and then make recommendations on using their imperial QC ducting with metric reducers as I mentioned.?
?
I would suggest you tell them how high ;) you are along with the specs of your DC and machines and they can draw up plans (at no cost btw).
?
Kamal Patel
?
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Jason,
?
Will be a thing of beauty once done!? I personally like the rounded base approach with a tapered top...if going this approach, can you (i) cut all the staves the same width (top + bottom), (ii) run the coves on the shaper, and then (iii) taper the staves on a slider?? The inside of the staves will be flat and can facilitate supports/cross braces to provide structural integrity along with metal plates to weigh it down.? There is some math there with regards to the angle of the taper cuts and the bevel angle.
|
Jason,
I'd say if the client was good with the circular base, stick with that and save yourself some serious head scratching.??
I think a challenge that?you'll have is glueing up of pre-shaped tapered staves. I did a series of stave built columns that ended up as cylinders.? I left the staves flat and shaped after glueing them up.? I used 3/4 steel strap, double crimped, and wedges pointing in opposite directions. I went round the circle tapping each one until tight.? Maybe some version of that for your project?
The metal banding might be another?challenge with the seasonal movement of the wood.
Looks like a fun project!
Marlowe McGraw
My next commission is to build a walnut dining table with an elliptical top 42x80" and a tapered scalloped base.?
This is a fun challenge. Surely involves custom shaper knives and an elaborate jig to hold the staves at an angle while running the cove cuts. Looking for advice on whether the base should also be an ellipse, or if round with some additional support in the long dimension at the top, ie. a rail or pair of rails that bisect the top of the base. I'm assuming I ballast the thing with a few hundred pounds of sand tubes inside.?
I found a formula for pedestals that is diameter/2 + 2" which would be 23" on this...or 23" x 42" if an oval.
?
What say you?
?
Thanks
Jason
?
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
My next commission is to build a walnut dining table with an elliptical top 42x80" and a tapered scalloped base.?
This is a fun challenge. Surely involves custom shaper knives and an elaborate jig to hold the staves at an angle while running the cove cuts. Looking for advice on whether the base should also be an ellipse, or if round with some additional support in the long dimension at the top, ie. a rail or pair of rails that bisect the top of the base. I'm assuming I ballast the thing with a few hundred pounds of sand tubes inside.?
I found a formula for pedestals that is diameter/2 + 2" which would be 23" on this...or 23" x 42" if an oval.
?
What say you?
?
Thanks
Jason
?
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Hi all,
?
I'm researching dust collection options for my shop, and several of my top choices for collector have a 160 mm inlet.? In the beginning, I assumed that I'd just drop that down to 6" ducting with an adapter.? But, my shop is at 6360' altitude, which effectively increases the static pressure in the ducting by a factor of ~1.27.? As it happens, 160mm ducting has about 78% of the static pressure per foot of 6" ducting, so 160mm duct work will give me almost the same static pressure as 6" ducts at sea level.? So, I'm thinking of buying 160mm ducting, but that seems to be a bit hard to come by in the USA.? I haven't yet started making phone calls, but all the normal duct suppliers people mention list only imperial measurement ducts on their websites, and no metric.? Has anyone here sourced metric ducting in the USA?? My preference is ducting with quick connect clamps.? If I can't find a good source of 160mm ducting, I may size up to 7".? My local Felder rep has confirmed that they do not sell 160mm ducting, just 160mm flex hose.? A search for "160mm" in the forum doesn't seem turn up any mention of 160mm ducting in the USA.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
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Thank you all for your feedback.?
?
Imran, you use the pressure rollers in conjunction with your power feeder? I am only now ordering my power feeder and was under the impression that it would provide sufficient pressure against the fence, if set up properly? Purchasing pressure rollers and the necessary p-channel adapters, mounting bars, etc would be a whole new consideration for me. Not to mention that I live in a country (island) where nothing is available locally and since Felder does not sell these Aigner items, I would need to first find a suitable place to purchase from. Where I live you cannot even buy the Felder recommended EP2 grease locally, everything has to be imported (so a tube of grease ends up costing 40-50Euro).
?
Cornelius
Cyprus
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Re: Adjusting Phase Perfect?
John, it is the brake board ( I often mix brake with break when I type- I should read and check 10 times before I post - fixed it up there ).
14 seconds is a long time, so the brake board may need to be replaced, but it would not hurt to try making some adjustments first to save you some time. I know it is a brand new machine and if Felder is close to you and they will address this quickly you may leave it to them. Otherwise if your electric compartment is unsealed and you have permission from Felder to get inside it is a fairly easy task to perform. There are two potentiometers on the brake board, one that controls the speed/strength of the brake, the other controls brake detection. The first is simple, you turn it to either increase or decrease the strength and it doesn¡¯t require anything other than a small screwdriver. To make changes to brake detection you would need to bridge a couple of pins on the board, so you would need a bridge ( from a computer store or if you have an old computer hard drive / they are on the back where the ribbon is attached). I¡¯m sure Felder can help you with this, if not I could guide you as well.
?
Good luck!
Mariusz
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Re: Adjusting Phase Perfect?
I am glad I reached out to this community before I fooled around with my PP.
?
The tech has submitted a ticket to replace my ¡°break board¡± (brake board?). Apparently he thinks that is the issue.
?
Mariusz suggested I listen to the buzz after stopping the blade. I did so, and the buzz persisted for 14 seconds. Perhaps that lends credence to the brake board being an issue.
?
Again, thanks to everyone for the help!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Yes the sander has cut down on my sanding time for detailed surfaces like crown. it all depends on the pad you use though as the 1/2¡± sponges wear rather quickly and cut through the surface on sharp edges. I think the surfprep sponges take the edge over Ekasand sponge pads in durability.?
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On Dec 16, 2024, at 7:55?PM, Jim Gaynor via groups.io <jgaynor57@...> wrote:
?
Good feedback Dan. I'm a big fan of the M12 family, but I do not have the detail sander (yet).
I have relied on hand sanding for crown molding and similar profiles. Does the Ekasand with the sanding sponge manage detail sanding of those profiles? I'd like to reduce the fatigue and time to readying for finishing.
Thanks
Jim Gaynor On Monday, December 16, 2024 at 10:32:06 AM EST, Dan Gavrilyuk via groups.io <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
I have owned both the mirka 6¡± deros and 3x5 deos rectangle sander. Ended up selling both of them in favor of the Ekasand 3x4 and 6¡±. My main shop sander is now a 6¡± festool, the 6¡± Ekasand is used as a loaner, backup and for buffing oil finishes. ?My main reason for selling the deos 3x5 and getting an Ekasand 3x4 is simply because it was more compact and fit into tighter spaces. I have partnered with Ekasand as well so if anyone is interested in a 20% discount code, feel free to send me a PM.? By the way, uneeda Ekasand, surfprep, and airvantage are all the same tools with different colors.? Side note, whether anyone is in the Milwaukee m12 platform or not, the detail sander is a phenomenal little tool and has earned its spot in my install kit. It can be had with a free battery for under $150. Highly recommended that guy, it¡¯s a true orbital unlike until tool style detail sanding pads.? On Dec 14, 2024, at 7:32?PM, Derek Cohen via groups.io <derekcohen@...> wrote:
? I have an older model, the Ceos, with a 150mm pad. The difference between the Ceos and the Deos is that the Deos comes with the transformer built into the sander, while the Ceos requires an external, separate transformer. As a result the Ceos is a little lighter in the hand, but the Deos is more convenient to set up.?
I love using this little sander, which was purchased over a Festool. It is especially kind to us physically when planing vertical sections - obviously originally made for the motor refinishing industry. The paddle will feel unusual at the start, and then is forgotten once you become familiar with the sander. Mine is the lowest sander in vibration I use used, and the dust control is the absolute best (used with Mirka mesh and a Festool vacuum).?
Regards from Perth Derek
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John Renzetti
Bryce Comer
Jonathan Smith
imran
Jason Holtz
Dan Gavrilyuk