ctrl + shift + ? :
Show all keyboard shortcuts
ctrl + g :
Navigate to a group
esc to dismiss
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Thanks Mac ¨C sounds like a good endorsement ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2024 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep? Hello Mike I was at my neighbor Tim¡¯s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you¡¯re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they¡¯re good they¡¯re damn good. I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice. Best mac,,, Designing and building for 50 years ? I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them? I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
-- Michael Marsico
|
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
As a sidenote, it is to do Mikra it was in the early 2000s. It was the Atlanta show after the show in the evening time. We¡¯re on top of the hotel in a big hot tub and I was in the pool with a bunch of MIKRA reps from around the world all of a sudden Harry of Felder fame walks up to the edge of the hot tub with very tiny speedo on goes into a handstand for a couple minutes and then flaps over into the pool quite interesting. Go Harry.
Mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 14, 2024, at 10:04?AM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression via groups.io <airtightclamps@...> wrote:
? Hello Mike I was at my neighbor Tim¡¯s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you¡¯re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they¡¯re good they¡¯re damn good. I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice.
|
Designing and building for 50 years
On Dec 14, 2024, at 6:57?AM, Michael Marsico via groups.io <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
?
Hey Gentleman
?
I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them?
?
I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
--
Michael Marsico
Re: Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Hello Mike I was at my neighbor Tim¡¯s last week and he let me try out his Mikra pretty sure it was a 5 inch random orbital not the square pad that you¡¯re asking about but I can tell you it was one beautiful little tool to use. My friend Tim is high top quality finisher. He has a few of these and also use has at the University of Wisconsin workplace and if he says they¡¯re good they¡¯re damn good. I only sanded with it for two minutes, so not a very good reference that way, but Tim swears by the damn thing and he is very very fussy when it comes to finishing or cabinet work in general so I trust his advice. |
Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 14, 2024, at 6:57?AM, Michael Marsico via groups.io <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
?
Hey Gentleman
?
I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them?
?
I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
--
Michael Marsico
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Then it would ride up and down as he moves it from side to side. He already said that his bars are level.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 05:37:19 AM MST, rodsheridan via groups.io <riderofgallifrey@...> wrote:
Ron, if you adjust the mounting bars so your fence is square does it solve your issue?
Regards, Rod
|
Mirka DEOS 3x4 vs Surfprep
Hey Gentleman
?
I am looking at getting a 3x4 sander. ?I have festool sanders which i like but the 3x4 is taller than i prefer and was looking at these two sanders. ?Does anyone have experience with them both that could compare them?
?
I will use it on furniture and refinishing some exterior doors
--
Michael Marsico
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Ron, if you adjust the mounting bars so your fence is square does it solve your issue?
Regards, Rod
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
I will look at mine tomorrow to let ya know what I find in the bag of parts that came with it.? I set it up once to validate the top is tapped from the factory.
?
PK
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
David,
?
This is what I did, I followed your 2 videos and square it to the trajectory of the slider, than attached a dial indicator to the fence and moved it and checked for parallelism between the fence and crosscut fence.
?
PK,
The additional screws I sent are in addition to the two bolts/metal plates that secure the bolts to the slider.
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
Those parts are what bolts the plate to the slider.
?
PK?
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
Few followup questions:
1)I wanted to validate that after squaring the cross-cut fence to the cast iron, the motorized fence run parallel to it. I used a dial indicator attached to the fence and moved it by 50mm. The dial indicator moved by ~0.003", is that good enough?
First off, you should be squaring the crosscut fence to the trajectory of the sliding table, not to the cast iron table edge. ?Then you can check the motorized fence movement in relationship to the previously squared fence. ?These methods are illustrated in the two videos at this link: ? ??
2)How/where do you store all the shaper accessories? For the cutters, I think to make a 1/2" plywood surface with some 1" dowels.
I store my shaper cutters in a typical shop cabinet with drawers, and installed 6mm plywood backer boards with finger-lift cutouts and hardwood dowels as shown below:
3)Is there any usage to the EU shaper hood that Felder provided with the machine if I have the Aigner bownolder?
If you mean the gizmo shown below, it¡¯s only useful to you if your BowlmouldMaster is the smaller 150mm version and you need to run tooling from 150-180mm and don¡¯t need pressure wheels, etc. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
|
Re: Profil 45Z commission and setup
I was able to fix the issue I had with the swing away device. Next issue I had was the 3 phase EU plug on the machine.
Felder sent me the wrong plug (they sent me a receptacle and not a plug, and they are out of stock for the correct item).
I initially though the EU plugs only defer one another by the number of pins and the supported amp.
I was wrong, apparently, apparently there is a different version for 5 pin layout that supports up to to 144V (250V 3phase) and 240V (400V 3phase). The first one is at the 6h and the latter one is at the 9h.
I couldn't easily find the 250V 3 phase, so I just bough the entire euro plug and replace the one on the machine.
The cost of an EU plug + receptacle is less than $20. In hindsight, why didn't I wire my shop with the EU plugs?
The 50A locking plug & receptacle cost me ~$100, where 63A version of the EU plug and receptacle are less than $40.
?
Few followup questions:
1)I wanted to validate that after squaring the cross-cut fence to the cast iron, the motorized fence run parallel to it. I used a dial indicator attached to the fence and moved it by 50mm. The dial indicator moved by ~0.003", is that good enough?
2)How/where do you store all the shaper accessories? For the cutters, I think to make a 1/2" plywood surface with some 1" dowels.
3)Is there any usage to the EU shaper hood that Felder provided with the machine if I have the Aigner bownolder?
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Leveling the flat bars all the way around was the first thing I did
?
Regards, Ron
|
Re: Version 2.0 Fritz & Franz jig
Very nice JP.
?
I built something similar with Lee Valley stops, the black knob threads into a flat washer in the sliding table T slot to keep the rear F&F jig piece in place.
?
?
The aluminium tracks are held in with T bolts and nylock nuts which allows side to side length calibration.
?
Regards, Rod.
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Hi Jason, no I was referring to making sure that the fence mounting rails are parallel to the table surface.
?
Since the fence is out of square in opposite directions on either side of the blade, it indicated to me that the mounting rails are cocked in opposite directions.
?
Regards, Rod.
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Ron,? When you are talking about adjusting toe in-out, are you referring to drift?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Hi Ron, try adjusting the flat bars bolted to the sides of the table.
?
I bet if you check they aren't parallel to the top of the table.
?
Regards, Rod.
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
OK, the nylon nuts adjust so it rests level to the table, also, you can jack up/down the far end to get your fence level to the table. If those set screws go into the slot and hit the steel bar, that's to prevent over tightening of the center bolt causing the clamping pressure to bow the fence, front to back.
You might want to add some shims to the knuckle where it contacts the f-channel and see how much out of square it is. It could be re-machined, or add a set screw to be able to jack up the low side.
Do they have an exploded diagram in the parts list, or post pictures of the whole thing.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, December 12, 2024 at 12:09:59 PM MST, Ron Pomeroy via groups.io <rpomeroy@...> wrote:
The set screws protrude through alright - but they go through the slot in the fence and hit nut (long metal bar) that holds the fence to the knuckle. A Felder tech was in the Seattle area and stopped by. ?I challenged him to explain how this setup could actually adjust toe-out. ?In the end he had to agree with me (or maybe he was just being nice?). ?As the set screws move outward they just push on the nut and that just stops the nut before it touches the inside of the t-slot - preventing the nut from pinning the fence to the milled surfaces of the knuckle - leaving the fence loose. ?It¡¯s not theory - I found this out by adjusting the set screws across their entire range. ?I think the design is flawed - or the factory is not producing to the actual design - or I¡¯m just missing something. ?If the set screws somehow pressed on the fence itself it would deflect the fence. ?I¡¯ll post some pics later.
?
As for Toms comments about the offering the square to the knuckle face: I did put a smaller square against the face and it¡¯s consistent with everything else I¡¯m seeing. ?I checked the aluminum fence extrusion separately for both sides (t-slot and face) being parallel to each other. ?The holes for the long bolt and knob combo to fasten the fence to the knuckle a not tapped or precise. ?There¡¯s lots of extra room to make getting the fence on the knuckle. ?This doesn¡¯t play a role in the squareness problem. ?the milled surfaces on the knuckle have a raised bit that rides in the opening in the t-slot allowing the fence to lay flat against the reference milled surfaces. ?These are the only thing determining geometry between the fence and the knuckle.
?
I¡¯m in ongoing discussions with Felder tech support to run down both the manufacturing and (potential) design problem. ?Note that the flat bar that the knuckle rides on connects to the table via three adjustable nuts. These can (and I think are intended) be adjusted to change toe out of the entire fence assembly. I think this is the intended way to change toe out. ?It leaves open the question of the how the set screws (not the nylon ones) function. ???
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
The set screws protrude through alright - but they go through the slot in the fence and hit nut (long metal bar) that holds the fence to the knuckle. A Felder tech was in the Seattle area and stopped by. ?I challenged him to explain how this setup could actually adjust toe-out. ?In the end he had to agree with me (or maybe he was just being nice?). ?As the set screws move outward they just push on the nut and that just stops the nut before it touches the inside of the t-slot - preventing the nut from pinning the fence to the milled surfaces of the knuckle - leaving the fence loose. ?It¡¯s not theory - I found this out by adjusting the set screws across their entire range. ?I think the design is flawed - or the factory is not producing to the actual design - or I¡¯m just missing something. ?If the set screws somehow pressed on the fence itself it would deflect the fence. ?I¡¯ll post some pics later.
?
As for Toms comments about the offering the square to the knuckle face: I did put a smaller square against the face and it¡¯s consistent with everything else I¡¯m seeing. ?I checked the aluminum fence extrusion separately for both sides (t-slot and face) being parallel to each other. ?The holes for the long bolt and knob combo to fasten the fence to the knuckle a not tapped or precise. ?There¡¯s lots of extra room to make getting the fence on the knuckle. ?This doesn¡¯t play a role in the squareness problem. ?the milled surfaces on the knuckle have a raised bit that rides in the opening in the t-slot allowing the fence to lay flat against the reference milled surfaces. ?These are the only thing determining geometry between the fence and the knuckle.
?
I¡¯m in ongoing discussions with Felder tech support to run down both the manufacturing and (potential) design problem. ?Note that the flat bar that the knuckle rides on connects to the table via three adjustable nuts. These can (and I think are intended) be adjusted to change toe out of the entire fence assembly. I think this is the intended way to change toe out. ?It leaves open the question of the how the set screws (not the nylon ones) function. ???
|
Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
I've had a FB610 for over a year and noticed the same issue with the fence being out of square with the table. Adjusting the white colored hex bolts that Brian has pointed out corrected most of the issue. However, the alum fence is still bowed in the center (top to bottom). The gap due to the bow is ~0.003" (see attached photo) but it varies over the length of the fence. At least for how I use the saw, this gap is insignificant.?
Regards,
Darrell Miller
|
Re: Christmas in November
Michael and Imran,
?
Thanks for the suggestions. I will clean the rails, and also see if moving the slider clears the issue. I will also pay attention to the saw cover to see if there is a correlation there.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
rodsheridan
PK
David P. Best
Ron Pomeroy
Jason Holtz
