Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138524

Did you want limiters too?? Not all north American shops are familiar with them though some are.

Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138523

开云体育

Thanks Jared. Will contact him instead.

Imran Malik

Show quoted text

On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:32?AM, Jared Sankovich via groups.io <Sankovichj@...> wrote:

?

That must be a different mt tool.?

Neil is in Baltimore.

On the? plus side he is extremely fast. I've had corrugated knives in less than 24 hours from emailing a drawing to the knives showing up at my door.?

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024, 9:23 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks Joe and Jared. MT Tools is in Schaumburg, IL and be great for me. Will contact them Monday.

Imran Malik

On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:19?AM, Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj=[email protected]> wrote:

?
Joe, you are correct, I've had Neil cut 40mm knives.?

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024, 9:12 AM Joe Calhoon via <joecalhoon=[email protected]> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]

I’ve had Hot Knives make those. They can use the better and thicker steel also. Those heads will accept 1mm thicker than standard for the knife.
I bet Neil at MT tool could as well.

Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138522

That must be a different mt tool.?

Neil is in Baltimore.

On the? plus side he is extremely fast. I've had corrugated knives in less than 24 hours from emailing a drawing to the knives showing up at my door.?

Show quoted text

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024, 9:23 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:

Thanks Joe and Jared. MT Tools is in Schaumburg, IL and be great for me. Will contact them Monday.

Imran Malik

On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:19?AM, Jared Sankovich via <Sankovichj=[email protected]> wrote:

?
Joe, you are correct, I've had Neil cut 40mm knives.?

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024, 9:12 AM Joe Calhoon via <joecalhoon=[email protected]> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]

I’ve had Hot Knives make those. They can use the better and thicker steel also. Those heads will accept 1mm thicker than standard for the knife.
I bet Neil at MT tool could as well.

Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138521

开云体育

Thanks Joe and Jared. MT Tools is in Schaumburg, IL and be great for me. Will contact them Monday.

Imran Malik

Show quoted text

On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:19?AM, Jared Sankovich via groups.io <Sankovichj@...> wrote:

?

Joe, you are correct, I've had Neil cut 40mm knives.?

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024, 9:12 AM Joe Calhoon via <joecalhoon=[email protected]> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I’ve had Hot Knives make those. They can use the better and thicker steel also. Those heads will accept 1mm thicker than standard for the knife.
I bet Neil at MT tool could as well.

Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138520

Joe, you are correct, I've had Neil cut 40mm knives.?

Show quoted text

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024, 9:12 AM Joe Calhoon via <joecalhoon=[email protected]> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I’ve had Hot Knives make those. They can use the better and thicker steel also. Those heads will accept 1mm thicker than standard for the knife.
I bet Neil at MT tool could as well.

Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138519
Edited

I’ve had Hot Knives make those. They can use the better and thicker steel also. Those heads will accept 1mm thicker than standard for the knife.
I bet Neil at MT tool could as well.

Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138518

开云体育

Thanks Andy, that is in UK correct. Should have added, looking for a source in USA.

Imran Malik

Show quoted text

On Dec 7, 2024, at 8:26?AM, Andy via groups.io <andy.raynor08@...> wrote:

?

Whitehill tools?

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 8:18?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:

I have not checked with Felder as it is not going to be quick. Took them 6 weeks to get me limiters for a standard knife.

These are also referred to as 64F series or 690 series and look like this

<image0.jpeg>

I am looking for someone who can do a custom knife set for me, 40 mm tall.

Imran Malik

Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138517

Whitehill tools?

Show quoted text

On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 8:18?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:

I have not checked with Felder as it is not going to be quick. Took them 6 weeks to get me limiters for a standard knife.

These are also referred to as 64F series or 690 series and look like this

I am looking for someone who can do a custom knife set for me, 40 mm tall.

Imran Malik

Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter

#138516

开云体育

I have not checked with Felder as it is not going to be quick. Took them 6 weeks to get me limiters for a standard knife.

These are also referred to as 64F series or 690 series and look like this

I am looking for someone who can do a custom knife set for me, 40 mm tall.

Imran Malik

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138515

开云体育

Hi Cornelius,

It is a shame that you can’t mount PF to your Jointer. As to your concern about bow staying there due to PF, David Best and Lucky have addressed this here may be others too.

In case I don’t remember their recommendation exactly, I would share what I do. I put concave side down. Usually the boards are such that a 3 mm depth of cut is sufficient. Once that amount is removed and the board has traveled ~50 mm the PF picks it up. Can it push the rest of the board down? Well it started out as a cut with no significant downward force just like one would do by hand and is now sitting flush on the outfeed. Pushing it further down at that point, should not do anything to the rest of the board. Boards with significant twist will need some work prior or just should be done by hand.

In this stack of 20 some boards I had to run maybe 4 boards again with 1 mm depth of cut to get them flat.

Imran Malik

Show quoted text

On Dec 6, 2024, at 4:47?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:

?

David - Thank you for your input. The suggestion of building a sled that covers the slider as well as part of the cast iron table (with layers of the foil tape on the bottom side) seems like the perfect solution. The only part that is not yet clear to me is how you deal with the ring inserts that?usually provide support right by the cutterhead. Depending on which size head I use, I would have to mount the entire sled further away from the fence which?may make the support of the workpiece problematic? Also, I suppose you do not clamp above the cast iron with this sled when using the slider since it would flex too much and bind with the cast iron? Would you still recommend I get the Felder tenoning plate for its stiffness and rigid build when I make narrow tenons??

Lastly, when you say my sliding table could use some alignment attention, you mean because?I get binding or because?0.2mm is too much of a height?difference in your opinion? The machine originally shipped with 0.6mm (right) and 0.3mm (left), but I have since corrected this to be 0.2mm on both sides. As you say, the last 10+% on either side are a different story.

Imran - yes, PF for jointer is something else I have been reading up on in the FOG archives. Haven't?come to a conclusion yet. Someone pointed to the fact that a feeder might press a bow out of a board that will be there again once out of the constraints of the feeder? I work a lot with very thick and bulky hardwoods (tropical 50-65 mm thick and 160-200mm wide) so I can't shave several mm off in a single pass. Feeding by hand, I usually go max 1mm in each pass. Another problem is that my AD741 does not come with a place to mount a feeder, so I would need to have a very solid independent place to bolt the feeder where it won't flex away from the jointer, yet can swing away when I need to open the unit to use the thicknesser. Really don't understand why Felder has mounting options for the bigger units, but not for the AD741?

Many thanks to you both for your very helpful feedback!

Cornelius Schultze-Kraft

Cyprus

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138514
Edited

Netanel, if you’re setting a toe-out on a sliding table in a stand alone shaper to avoid binding your reference should be your shaper fence as this is where the binding could happen.?

To make it easier on yourself when setting it up, I would make sure your shaper fence is parallel to the cast iron edge first as it is fairly easy to initially measure the gap between the cast iron and the slider and then fine tune it with a dial indicator on the fence (assuming the fence extrusions are flat).

?

I’m really new to woodworking, so I do not know ( it would be really interesting to know from the experts ) if a toe-out on a stand alone shaper is necessary, cause at least in (my) theory it may not be desirable. I have a KF 700 S saw/shaper combo and thanks to David Best, his book and personal help I was able to really dial in my slider well beyond anything that is possible for a Felder technician to achieve, given time constraints and measuring equipment they equip technicians with. I set up my slider with a slight toe-out for safety on the saw, so the shaper got the same. This never came up in my conversations with David, but I think on a stand alone shaper, I would aim for the slider trajectory to be perfectly parallel to the fence, which in my theory would give you the most accurate results shaping wide and long pieces utilizing the slider.?

Mariusz

?

I‘m sorry David, started typing before you posted your response?

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138513

开云体育

In general, on a shaper, you want the trajectory of the sliding table to be parallel with the fence plates on the shaper hood. This way you can use any point along shaper fence as a bump-stop reference to establish the depth of cut of a profiling operation and still be able to have the material clamped to the sliding table. ?If the two are not parallel, material clamped to the slider will either move away from the fence plate as it goes through the profiling operation giving you an erroneous depth of cut, or the material will bind against the fence when the slider is pushed forward. ?

On a KF700/F700, the 230 shaper hood mounting arrangement typically has enough wiggle room to be able to align the fence plates to the trajectory of the sliding table during hood/fence setup, and thus aligning the sliding table to the edge of the cast iron top is probably sufficient. ?That said, I would still mount the hood and check that the fence plates can easily be positioned to be parallel with the slider movement. ?How do you align the fence plates to the trajectory of the sliding table on such a machine? The easiest way is to first mount and square a crosscut fence to the slider movement, then put a square against the crosscut fence and use the 90-degree leg as the reference surface to align the fence plate before locking down the hood. ?

But on a machine like a Profil 45, the hood and fence plates move in/out in a rigidly controlled parallel fashion, so aligning the slider movement to be parallel with the infeed fence plate is the correct approach. ?

I refer you to these two videos - read the descriptions with each. ?

David Best - via mobile phone?

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On Dec 7, 2024, at 12:25?AM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:

?
Thanks david,

I watched your video again, but the toe-out of the slider is adjusted based on the table saw blade, but on a standalone shaper you don't have a blade, so what would you reference?
Does the edge of the cast iron is good enough?

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138512

Thanks david,

I watched your video again, but the toe-out of the slider is adjusted based on the table saw blade, but on a standalone shaper you don't have a blade, so what would you reference?
Does the edge of the cast iron is good enough?

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138511

开云体育

I believe that gap you see is an illusion because of the poor lighting/shadows. ?The corner edges of the tenoning plate are chamfered, and it is also relieved at both ends on the underside by about 0.028-inches or ~0.7mm.?

I just checked my slider to be sure - the slider is 0.006-inches above the cast iron top which is ~0.15mm. ?

David Best - via mobile phone?

Show quoted text

On Dec 6, 2024, at 4:14?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:

?
David,

Thank you for your additional comments and helpful hints. Yes, my sliding table stays coplanar for the section of travel I use when tenoning. It is a short slider. I would think twice to start adjusting my saw's slider that is 3.2 meters and has 8 bolts (as in your video). Far more involved and complex.?

Regarding the tenoning plate - in the flicker link you sent there is a photo from the side of your setup (attaching a slightly zoomed in copy). In this photo your height gap between the tenoning plate and the cast iron top is only 0.15mm? The plate seems to float quite a bit above the cast iron or is the shadow misleading?

Many thanks.?

Cornelius Schultze-Kraft?
Cyprus?

<Screenshot_20241207_015958_Chrome.jpg>

Re: Version 2.0 Fritz & Franz jig

#138510

It seems that there are now a lot more YouTube videos on Fritz Franz and jigs - clamps for sliders. ?I also saw one that uses Brian's parallel fences.

?

If you search "Fritz Franz", many come up.

?

As for me, I am happy with my Fritz Franz, pictures posted in the past. If I were to re-do, I would think about incorporating the Accurate Technology DRO where they can make the fences to any length you want. ?An upside would be the DRO readout in imperial vs metric and the downside would be the increased weight (and the cost). ?

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138509

David,

Thank you for your additional comments and helpful hints. Yes, my sliding table stays coplanar for the section of travel I use when tenoning. It is a short slider. I would think twice to start adjusting my saw's slider that is 3.2 meters and has 8 bolts (as in your video). Far more involved and complex.?

Regarding the tenoning plate - in the flicker link you sent there is a photo from the side of your setup (attaching a slightly zoomed in copy). In this photo your height gap between the tenoning plate and the cast iron top is only 0.15mm? The plate seems to float quite a bit above the cast iron or is the shadow misleading?

Many thanks.?

Cornelius Schultze-Kraft?

Cyprus?

Screenshot_20241207_015958_Chrome.jpg

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138508

开云体育

On Dec 6, 2024, at 1:47?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:

David - Thank you for your input. The suggestion of building a sled that covers the slider as well as part of the cast iron table (with layers of the foil tape on the bottom side) seems like the perfect solution. The only part that is not yet clear to me is how you deal with the ring inserts that?usually provide support right by the cutterhead. Depending on which size head I use, I would have to mount the entire sled further away from the fence which?may make the support of the workpiece problematic?

Exactly. ?Just like the tenoning plate. ?Position the sled so it isn’t machined during the profiling operation. ?Or, if you want to keep the sled stationary and use the PF, you can always cut out the OD of the cutter projection. ?Easy enough to make a rough cutout with a jigsaw, then just raise the rotating cutter into the sled from the bottom to get a zero-clearance. ?

Also, I suppose you do not clamp above the cast iron with this sled when using the slider since it would flex too much and bind with the cast iron?

Correct, but I do use a pressure module from above. ?As shown below. ?Aigner makes a number of accessories to help guide and keep material properly tracking on a shaper. The photo below is the single-wheel version, but they make others with all kinds of different wheel configurations that can be mounted vertically or horizontally. ?See attached.

Would you still recommend I get the Felder tenoning plate for its stiffness and rigid build when I make narrow tenons??

Absolutely. ?https://flic.kr/s/aHsmcQd55z

Lastly, when you say my sliding table could use some alignment attention, you mean because?I get binding or because?0.2mm is too much of a height?difference in your opinion? The machine originally shipped with 0.6mm (right) and 0.3mm (left), but I have since corrected this to be 0.2mm on both sides. As you say, the last 10+% on either side are a different story.

My comments were mostly for the benefit of others reading the thread. ?Does your slider stay the same height and coplanar as you move the slider forward and back?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

33904633481_3345cd964e_c.jpeg

AignerCatalog2014.pdf

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138507

开云体育

David,

How did you make sure the slider is coplanar to the cast-iron? What is your reference point?

Same as always: ?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138506

David - Thank you for your input. The suggestion of building a sled that covers the slider as well as part of the cast iron table (with layers of the foil tape on the bottom side) seems like the perfect solution. The only part that is not yet clear to me is how you deal with the ring inserts that?usually provide support right by the cutterhead. Depending on which size head I use, I would have to mount the entire sled further away from the fence which?may make the support of the workpiece problematic? Also, I suppose you do not clamp above the cast iron with this sled when using the slider since it would flex too much and bind with the cast iron? Would you still recommend I get the Felder tenoning plate for its stiffness and rigid build when I make narrow tenons??

Lastly, when you say my sliding table could use some alignment attention, you mean because?I get binding or because?0.2mm is too much of a height?difference in your opinion? The machine originally shipped with 0.6mm (right) and 0.3mm (left), but I have since corrected this to be 0.2mm on both sides. As you say, the last 10+% on either side are a different story.

Imran - yes, PF for jointer is something else I have been reading up on in the FOG archives. Haven't?come to a conclusion yet. Someone pointed to the fact that a feeder might press a bow out of a board that will be there again once out of the constraints of the feeder? I work a lot with very thick and bulky hardwoods (tropical 50-65 mm thick and 160-200mm wide) so I can't shave several mm off in a single pass. Feeding by hand, I usually go max 1mm in each pass. Another problem is that my AD741 does not come with a place to mount a feeder, so I would need to have a very solid independent place to bolt the feeder where it won't flex away from the jointer, yet can swing away when I need to open the unit to use the thicknesser. Really don't understand why Felder has mounting options for the bigger units, but not for the AD741?

Many thanks to you both for your very helpful feedback!

Cornelius Schultze-Kraft

Cyprus

Re: F700Z slider to cast-iron height difference

#138505

开云体育

Hi Cornelius,

If you handle long stock often I recommend looking into PF for jointer. Longest I have jointed is bit over 4m. I have done the width that required 3x of my Dual 51 (510 mm). I have to be particular on the final glueup and light sanding is all it takes.

I do understand that your current project is challenging and you have feedback from David Best for some options.

As for Plano, I bought it cheap at an auction ($50 and gas) but then decided to add a column and all new plastic end liners. So I made it less cheap. I installed it in the only place available in the shop and the plan was to move my bench after moving the mitersaw. None of that happened so it has never been used. I was thinking of giving it a go for the current project but bot sure if it will happen.

Imran Malik

Show quoted text

On Dec 6, 2024, at 3:51?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:

?

Thanks for your feedback!

Brett - your suggestion with the copy paper makes sense?since we're only talking about a fraction of a mm, but how and where do you place/secure the paper when you feed a long workpiece past the cutterhead. Manual feed or power feeder would?simply push that paper along with the workpiece, wouldn't it? My pieces are 3 meters long, so they are not supported all the way and it would be a challenge to keep placing paper under the workpiece as it feeds past the cutterhead. Or do you have a trick here that I am missing?

Imran - you are correct that the simplest solution would be to not use a profile?for the glue joint, but my panels are 3 meters long and 90 cm wide. I cannot feed these through my jointer (AD741) to flatten if the joint shifts and is a tad misaligned after glue up. It would need to be in 3 sections and that still requires 2 more glue lines. You are correct that Dominos would solve this problem and I like dominos and have successfully used dominos for this purpose many times, but with 3 meter lengths I thought a continuous?profile joint would result in a faster assembly and cleaner joint. Btw, in your photo I see you have the Plano system in the background which I can imagine would serve exactly this purpose - aligning glue ups to stay flat? Are you happy with it, I am considering getting it, specifically for this type of job. However, having said that, I also had a project a few months ago where I was building a bread-board type panel and the cross piece that needed the groove was wider than the cast iron. This was the first time I encountered this problem. I tried to cut a groove 40mm deep and the slight angle caused a problem on the final fit.

Cornelius Schultze-Kraft

Cyprus