On Aug 1, 2024, at 7:34?AM, Jim Dayton via groups.io <jd74914@...> wrote:

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Those beam saws aren’t nearly as scary as one would think-I have the similar sized 400mm Makita and it’s a joy to use. Have fun with it!

Stacked dado blades on a shaper arbor is way scarier to me (I never thought I’d say that, the beam saw was shocking).?

Jim ?

On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 7:01?AM Michael Branning via <mtbranning=[email protected]> wrote:

In that same puckering vein, I just bought a 16 5/16” Skil saw on Prime day for some future beam projects. This plus a chisel would make quick work of some slots but you’d need to do some significant set up to hold the pieces and come up with some jigs for guidance.

On Jul 31, 2024, at 9:19?PM, David P. Best via <dbestworkshop=[email protected]> wrote:

?Yea, and mondo pucker factor too. ? ?

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...

On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:12?PM, David Luckensmeyer via <dhluckens=[email protected]> wrote:

Hi David B.

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I love your stack of Forrest Dado blades. That must have made quite some noise on start-up! ?

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Warm regards,

Lucky

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David P. Best via <dbestworkshop=[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, 1 August 2024 at 11:10
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Slotting Capability

Imran,

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I dealt with this many years ago.? I ended up using a 300mm Forrest Dado King on the spindle shaper on my KF700.? This gave me a slot/mortise/tenon DOC of 5”. ? Since your KF700 is configured as a shaper now, why don’t you just mount a large saw blade on the arbor, build yourself some kind of simple hood for safety, and cut the slots in that manner.? Successive cuts while raising the blade between cuts should do it.? You can angle your crosscut fence as required to get the bottom of the slot angled perfectly. ?

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<Dado King on KF700 Shaper.jpeg>

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<Dado King on KF700 Shaper2.jpeg>

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I also have some slot clutters you are willing to borrow if you pay the postage.? I have a pair of 4mm slot cutters that are 230mm diameter which would give about a 75mm DOC.

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<Slotters - 1.jpeg>

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I also have a groover that is 250mm diameter - two piece that can be sized for 8-15mm thickness.? This would also provide about 70mm DOC to the hub area.

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<Slotters - 2.jpeg>

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Both of those would required a tenoning hood for safety that can be shop built.? Let me know if this would help.

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David Best
DBestWorkshop@...

On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:52?PM, imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:

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David,

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Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4” angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight variation in joints.

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If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??

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Imran Malik

On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via <dhluckens=[email protected]> wrote:

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Imran,?

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You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be done by hand or else a fair bit of money is needed. Both limit commerciality.?

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The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see. Consequently your scenario is even harder than mine.?

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1. You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I’ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right fitting joinery.?
2. I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you’re planning on using. I’ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in very many species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
3. That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I’m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable versions are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?

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I think you’re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us posted please!

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Warm regards,

Lucky

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Lamb via <blamb11=[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 08:52
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Slotting Capability

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Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.

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Brian Lamb

blamb11@...

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On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:

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Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12” dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.

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Imran Malik

On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via <blamb11=[email protected]> wrote:

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Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.

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Brian Lamb

blamb11@...

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On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:

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Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?

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Imran Malik

On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via <blamb11=[email protected]> wrote:

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Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.

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Brian Lamb

blamb11@...

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On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:

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Hi Brett,

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I assume you have more the 4” capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?

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I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.

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I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.

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Imran Malik

On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via <Brettwissel=[email protected]> wrote:

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Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.

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On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:

??Hi Mikelis,

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Can’t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:

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<image0.jpeg>

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I should have added that while I can get ~4” cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3” on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4” depth of cut.

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Imran Malik

On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs=[email protected]> wrote:

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That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.

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Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?

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On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:

I came across a step stool design that requires ~4” deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4” wide.

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<image0.jpeg>

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Here is a prototype with just under 3” of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.

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<image1.jpeg>

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I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.

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I tried the 4” deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3”. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.

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All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12” dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.

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Thoughts?

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Imran Malik

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--

Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
(at


314.772.2167
brett@...

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