In that same puckering vein, I just bought a 16 5/16¡± Skil saw on Prime day for some future beam projects. This plus a chisel would make quick work of some slots but you¡¯d need to do some significant set up to hold the pieces and come up with some jigs for guidance.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 9:19?PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? Yea, and mondo pucker factor too. ? ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:12?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi David B. ? I love your stack of Forrest Dado blades. That must have made quite some noise on start-up!
? ?
?
Imran,
I dealt with this many years ago. ?I ended up using a 300mm Forrest Dado King on the spindle shaper on my KF700. ?This gave me a slot/mortise/tenon DOC of 5¡±. ? Since your KF700 is configured as a shaper now,
why don¡¯t you just mount a large saw blade on the arbor, build yourself some kind of simple hood for safety, and cut the slots in that manner. ?Successive cuts while raising the blade between cuts should do it. ?You can angle your crosscut fence as required
to get the bottom of the slot angled perfectly. ?
<Dado King on KF700 Shaper.jpeg>
<Dado King on KF700 Shaper2.jpeg>
I also have some slot clutters you are willing to borrow if you pay the postage. ?I have a pair of 4mm slot cutters that are 230mm diameter which would give about a 75mm DOC.
I also have a groover that is 250mm diameter - two piece that can be sized for 8-15mm thickness. ?This would also provide about 70mm DOC to the hub area.
Both of those would required a tenoning hood for safety that can be shop built. ?Let me know if this would help.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:52?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight
variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike
Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be
done by hand or else a fair bit of money is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see.
Consequently your scenario is even harder than mine.?
-
You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right fitting joinery.?
-
I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in very many
species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
-
That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable versions
are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us
posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are
doing.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given
you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting
me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs=[email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the
rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here
is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided
to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase
my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
?
|
Hi David,
Thanks for the generous offer of lending me the tooling but I would be worried sick if I did something wrong with them.
Do you have the hood for Profil as it accommodates 350 mm tooling? One for 700 series shows 270 mm capacity.
I will use the stool over the next few months to ensure it holds. The rebuild of this to proper proportions is likely going to be during winter. I need to finish trim on the storage room I built behind my shop and then paint the exterior of the whole shop and storage building. This will take me into fall.
Meanwhile I will work on the hood design.
Thanks again.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 9:10?PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: ? Imran,
I dealt with this many years ago. ?I ended up using a 300mm Forrest Dado King on the spindle shaper on my KF700. ?This gave me a slot/mortise/tenon DOC of 5¡±. ? Since your KF700 is configured as a shaper now, why don¡¯t you just mount a large saw blade on the arbor, build yourself some kind of simple hood for safety, and cut the slots in that manner. ?Successive cuts while raising the blade between cuts should do it. ?You can angle your crosscut fence as required to get the bottom of the slot angled perfectly. ?
<Dado King on KF700 Shaper.jpeg>
<Dado King on KF700 Shaper2.jpeg>
I also have some slot clutters you are willing to borrow if you pay the postage. ?I have a pair of 4mm slot cutters that are 230mm diameter which would give about a 75mm DOC.
I also have a groover that is 250mm diameter - two piece that can be sized for 8-15mm thickness. ?This would also provide about 70mm DOC to the hub area.
Both of those would required a tenoning hood for safety that can be shop built. ?Let me know if this would help.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:52?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Imran,?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be done by hand or else a fair bit of money
is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see. Consequently your scenario is even harder
than mine.?
- You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right
fitting joinery.?
- I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in
very many species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
- That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable
versions are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try...
you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to
4¡± depth of cut.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame
are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under
3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like
to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Thanks Brent and David, somehow, my search on Scott and Sargent did not show fixed groovers from Whitehill but I do see them now.
The reason I was after 350 mm was to try on the saw. As mentioned in my original post K975 is lousy in depth of cut.
Yes, 300 mm is fine on the shaper. I have some choices now. I like these joints so it is not just one project, therefore would be nice to have the capability of doing these efficiently.
Thanks a bunch.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 9:07?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote: ?
Hi Imran:
?
No worries.
No, I don¡¯t know of any available slot cutters or ¡°thick blades¡± at that sort of diameter. However, have you considered that solid groovers (as opposed to adjustable groovers) have a larger capacity? You only need 300mm.
?
For example, this groover is 300mm x 10mm x 30mm bore, and has a cutting depth of 114mm, which is enough for your purposes. At 350 pounds it is expensive, but that is exactly the kind of cutter that is needed
for large bridle joints. Sadly, two would be better with the correct spacer between and then you¡¯d be golden ¨C bridle joints in 4¡± material with no handwork.
?
At least you have USD to work with. The AUD is low at the moment so this cutter would cost me $688, and then postage to little old Australia!
?
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight
variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike
Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be
done by hand or else a fair bit of money is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see.
Consequently your scenario is even harder than mine.?
-
You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right fitting joinery.?
-
I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in very many
species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
-
That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable versions
are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us
posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are
doing.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given
you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting
me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs=[email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the
rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here
is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided
to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase
my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Yea, and mondo pucker factor too. ? ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:12?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi David B. ? I love your stack of Forrest Dado blades. That must have made quite some noise on start-up!
? ?
?
Imran,
I dealt with this many years ago. ?I ended up using a 300mm Forrest Dado King on the spindle shaper on my KF700. ?This gave me a slot/mortise/tenon DOC of 5¡±. ? Since your KF700 is configured as a shaper now,
why don¡¯t you just mount a large saw blade on the arbor, build yourself some kind of simple hood for safety, and cut the slots in that manner. ?Successive cuts while raising the blade between cuts should do it. ?You can angle your crosscut fence as required
to get the bottom of the slot angled perfectly. ?
<Dado King on KF700 Shaper.jpeg>
<Dado King on KF700 Shaper2.jpeg>
I also have some slot clutters you are willing to borrow if you pay the postage. ?I have a pair of 4mm slot cutters that are 230mm diameter which would give about a 75mm DOC.
I also have a groover that is 250mm diameter - two piece that can be sized for 8-15mm thickness. ?This would also provide about 70mm DOC to the hub area.
Both of those would required a tenoning hood for safety that can be shop built. ?Let me know if this would help.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:52?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight
variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike
Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be
done by hand or else a fair bit of money is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see.
Consequently your scenario is even harder than mine.?
-
You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right fitting joinery.?
-
I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in very many
species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
-
That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable versions
are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us
posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are
doing.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given
you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting
me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs=[email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the
rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here
is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided
to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase
my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
?
|
Hi David B.
?
I love your stack of Forrest Dado blades. That must have made quite some noise on start-up!
?
?
?
Imran,
I dealt with this many years ago. ?I ended up using a 300mm Forrest Dado King on the spindle shaper on my KF700. ?This gave me a slot/mortise/tenon DOC of 5¡±. ? Since your KF700 is configured as a shaper now,
why don¡¯t you just mount a large saw blade on the arbor, build yourself some kind of simple hood for safety, and cut the slots in that manner. ?Successive cuts while raising the blade between cuts should do it. ?You can angle your crosscut fence as required
to get the bottom of the slot angled perfectly. ?
I also have some slot clutters you are willing to borrow if you pay the postage. ?I have a pair of 4mm slot cutters that are 230mm diameter which would give about a 75mm DOC.
I also have a groover that is 250mm diameter - two piece that can be sized for 8-15mm thickness. ?This would also provide about 70mm DOC to the hub area.
Both of those would required a tenoning hood for safety that can be shop built. ?Let me know if this would help.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:52?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight
variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike
Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be
done by hand or else a fair bit of money is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see.
Consequently your scenario is even harder than mine.?
-
You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right fitting joinery.?
-
I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in very many
species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
-
That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable versions
are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us
posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are
doing.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given
you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting
me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs=[email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the
rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here
is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided
to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase
my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
?
|
Imran,
I dealt with this many years ago. ?I ended up using a 300mm Forrest Dado King on the spindle shaper on my KF700. ?This gave me a slot/mortise/tenon DOC of 5¡±. ? Since your KF700 is configured as a shaper now, why don¡¯t you just mount a large saw blade on the arbor, build yourself some kind of simple hood for safety, and cut the slots in that manner. ?Successive cuts while raising the blade between cuts should do it. ?You can angle your crosscut fence as required to get the bottom of the slot angled perfectly. ?
I also have some slot clutters you are willing to borrow if you pay the postage. ?I have a pair of 4mm slot cutters that are 230mm diameter which would give about a 75mm DOC.
I also have a groover that is 250mm diameter - two piece that can be sized for 8-15mm thickness. ?This would also provide about 70mm DOC to the hub area.
Both of those would required a tenoning hood for safety that can be shop built. ?Let me know if this would help.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:52?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Imran,?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be done by hand or else a fair bit of money
is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see. Consequently your scenario is even harder
than mine.?
- You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right
fitting joinery.?
- I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in
very many species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
- That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable
versions are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try...
you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to
4¡± depth of cut.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame
are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under
3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like
to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Ha! Brent, we¡¯re onto exactly the same cutter. Cheers!
?
?
Hi Imran, have you looked at the non-adjustable, fixed width groovers by whitehill?? Far less expensive than the adjustable version if you are fine with one width, though with care a wider groove can be made
with multiple passes.? The 300mm ones will do 4.5" depth.??
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/turn-blade-groovers/CBS013V1/
|
Hi Imran:
?
No worries.
No, I don¡¯t know of any available slot cutters or ¡°thick blades¡± at that sort of diameter. However, have you considered that solid groovers (as opposed to adjustable groovers) have a larger capacity? You only need 300mm.
?
For example, this groover is 300mm x 10mm x 30mm bore, and has a cutting depth of 114mm, which is enough for your purposes. At 350 pounds it is expensive, but that is exactly the kind of cutter that is needed
for large bridle joints. Sadly, two would be better with the correct spacer between and then you¡¯d be golden ¨C bridle joints in 4¡± material with no handwork.
?
At least you have USD to work with. The AUD is low at the moment so this cutter would cost me $688, and then postage to little old Australia!
?
?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
?
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight
variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike
Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be
done by hand or else a fair bit of money is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see.
Consequently your scenario is even harder than mine.?
-
You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right fitting joinery.?
-
I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in very many
species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
-
That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable versions
are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us
posted please!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Brian Lamb via groups.io
<blamb11@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2024 08:52
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Slotting Capability
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are
doing.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given
you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting
me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut.
?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs=[email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the
rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here
is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided
to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase
my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Hi Imran, have you looked at the non-adjustable, fixed width groovers by whitehill?? Far less expensive than the adjustable version if you are fine with one width, though with care a wider groove can be made with multiple passes.? The 300mm ones will do 4.5" depth.??
?
https://www.whitehill-tools.com/cutter-heads/turn-blade-groovers/CBS013V1/
|
David,
Thanks for the detailed response. You have reinforced what I have experienced in my trials. I started the project attempting the 4¡± angled bridle slot and tenon and found while cuts were crisp there was slight variation in joints.
If I can get a slotting blade in 350mm dia, I would like to still give it a try on the saw. None have come up in my searches. S&S top out around 200mm. FS Tool has a 250 mm dia/10mm kerf for $463 but unlike Felder (300mm-6 teeth) it has 24 teeth. Do you know of any on your end??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 7:34?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <dhluckens@...> wrote: ?
Imran,?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be done by hand or else a fair bit of money
is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see. Consequently your scenario is even harder
than mine.?
- You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right
fitting joinery.?
- I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in
very many species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
- That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable
versions are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us posted please!
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try...
you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to
4¡± depth of cut.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame
are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under
3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like
to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Imran,?
You raise a method of work question worthy of consideration. The limits of slot cutters, and machinery are why we do not see large bridle style joints in mainstream furniture and magazines. They have to be done by hand or else a fair bit of money
is needed. Both limit commerciality.?
The issue you raise is similar to my half lap joint problem, except that the inside faces of half lap joints are hidden. Bridle joints are entirely exposed and so any clean up work is there for all to see. Consequently your scenario is even harder
than mine.?
- You could use a large blade on saw or shaper and cut the inside faces, similar to what I¡¯ve just done on the saw. But you have to clean out the bottoms by hand. Plus doing single cuts takes a lot of care to get right
fitting joinery.?
- I ?would test the quality of your bandsaw cuts in the timber you¡¯re planning on using. I¡¯ve been surprised at times to discover that the bandsaw can cut well enough (smooth enough) for glue-quality joinery but not in
very many species. Most splinter just enough to make exposed joinery like bridle joints problematic. And you are still doing the hand work.?
- That leaves oversize slot cutters on the shaper with a homemade hood. I¡¯m planning on making chairs with bridle joints and will purchase one or more identical fixed width cutters from Whitehill. I agree that the adjustable
versions are expensive. Getting said cutters, say 300/350mm x 10/12mm will do a beautiful job on the shaper. But even those cutters (non adjustable) add up.?
I think you¡¯re asking the right questions. The solution you choose will come down to how much handwork you want to do, how well your selected timber machines, and how much money you want to spend. Keep us posted please!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try...
you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
?
Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to
4¡± depth of cut.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote:
?
That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via
<imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote:
I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame
are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under
3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like
to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
|
|
Just use one blade and raise/lower it accordingly. Don't need to spend the money on a dado set for one project.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:50:01 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Thanks Brian. That is an option and if I go that route, I would like to build a tenoning hood to make it safe. Since Forrest 12¡± dado king is ~$700, I thought I ask what others are doing.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:43?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Largest I've done on the saw was a back bevel on a table top using a 12" blade on the shaper spindle giving me right at about 4" of depth. It's scary as hell given you can't run it in any sort of guard. If you have a 350mm blade and want to try... you can get it done. I think the safer, if more work route, is the bandsaw and clean up the slot on the bottom.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:21:53 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Thanks Brian. Bandsaw is definitely an option. I am trying to find out if anyone is doing this on shaper or saw. If so, how?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:07?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Bandsaw... you can slot as deep as you would like. Cut both sides and the flatten out the bottom of the slot.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 03:02:54 PM MST, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Hi Brett,
I assume you have more the 4¡± capability on the saw. Do you slot that high on the saw?
I am trying to figure out if I am giving up on this option too quickly, after a few tries. I believe the blade is sharp but I could try it again with a sharpened blade.
I wish I could find a 350 mm slotting blade.
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On Jul 31, 2024, at 5:29?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Bandsaw and chisel or sanding block to achieve finished edges where circular blades can't reach. On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 12:46?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ??Hi Mikelis,
Can¡¯t take credit for the design, following caught my eye:
I should have added that while I can get ~4¡± cut (never tested it) on KF700 with 300-315 mm blade, I only get 3.3¡± on K975. KF700 is now configured as a shaper so this is putting me at a disadvantage. Therefore, Felder slotting blade does not get me to 4¡± depth of cut. On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:23?PM, Mi?elis Vindavs via <mikelis.vindavs= [email protected]> wrote: ? That looks like a cool design for the stepstool.
Not sure if this helps any, but Felder makes a slotting/grooving blade in two sizes - 230x4 and 300x5 (03.0.030). It would still require multiple passes but perhaps fewer than the rip blade, depending on how wide yours is.?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 at 19:49, imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: I came across a step stool design that requires ~4¡± deep slots. I know there are other ways to achieve the look of an angled bridle joint but these methods require more work. Here is what I would like to build. 3 pieces that make each side of the frame are 4¡± wide.
Here is a prototype with just under 3¡± of slotting capability. Wood is just pine construction lumber.
I know I could have done a few things to improve the proportions but this exercise has brought up the question about slotting capabilities.
I tried the 4¡± deep angle slot on the table saw (350 mm, IIRC 28 tooth rip blade) but it was a slow process. I imagine it would be even slower in hard wood. This is where I decided to switch to shaper which reduced my slotting capability to just under 3¡±. For the slot (for stretcher) in the upper part of the legs I rough cut on bandsaw and then cleaned up on shaper.
All this to ask the question, what slotting capabilities do you guys have? At what point do you start thinking of alternative methods? I do not want to add a machine but I could increase my capability with a tenoning hood. If I go this route, I would like to build one that accommodates a 12¡± dado. BTW, Whitehill makes a 300 mm adj groover but it is over $1K.
Thoughts?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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What type of knife system is on that cutterhead? ? David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Jul 31, 2024, at 2:34?PM, jeff via groups.io <jeff@...> wrote:
? You can run the planer with the jointer tables down, or if you're doing a lot of planing you can flip them up, put the cover on, and do your planing. Then remove cover and put tables back down when done.
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You can run the planer with the jointer tables down, or if you're doing a lot of planing you can flip them up, put the cover on, and do your planing. Then remove cover and put tables back down when done.
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imran
David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer