Re: Digital protractor..

#136780

A sine plate and set of gage blocks are as accurate as anything mentioned on here and the prices are between $19 and $3000.? Additionally, they can be used to hold the work, not just transfer an angle to a cutter or fence.? That means the setup can be very repeatable.? For even less money, a work holding jig could be built from scrap wood.? It will just take some time to sneak up on the final dimensions.? The guy demoing the bridge city kanorbus then exposed the weakness by making patterns with added blue tape shims.? There is always some difference between measuring and doing.

?

Question, my Starrett protractor has a readout showing degrees and a vernier scale in minutes.? Does that mean it has an imperial scale?

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136779

Hi Mac,
I don’t do that French miter often. It’s ok for just a few sash if trying to match something.
It saves getting custom knives ground but if a larger quantity buying knives is more economical.

Yes on screens I use the rubber to hold and stretch the screen and also apply a small stop.

Re: Aigner Sawboy

#136778

I have the sawboy on a kf700sp and being able to find tune connected to the rip fence makes it a dream to work with for any straight cuts. Really handy for copy template work. Easy to install/remove after initial setup.? Would buy again.

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On Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 7:29?AM James Zhu via <james.zhu2=[email protected]> wrote:

I do not have it, but Aigner sawboy does exactly like the L-fence jig does, it mounts on the rip fence. You can mount your L-fence jig to the rip fence on the slider too. Aigner sawboy's build and finish is just super nice and more expensive.

James

On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 8:13?AM netanel.belgazal via <netanel.belgazal=[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder if someone has experience using the Aigner Sawboy jig?

?

When I had a regular cabinet saw I used to work with a L fence jig for cutting patterns using templates (I find it more accurate then flush trim on a router table)

I just found out that Aigner has a product that function as L-fence and I wonder if someone has a familiarity with this product? (or has a better way to pattern cut on a slider)

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136777

开云体育

Hi Joe,?

Can’t say I’ve ever done the French style sash, but I have a question for you. Do you use the rubber profile to attach the screen and then add a stop?

Thanks for all your brilliant suggestions. Take care, man.

martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell

airtightclamps@...

Designing and building for 50 years

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On Jun 19, 2024, at 7:22?AM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:

?
Rusty,

?

The arbor/throat plate/housing on the the Fleder table saw isn't too small to accommodate such a large head? 55mm is more than double the max dado the saw supports.

Re: Aigner Sawboy

#136776

I do not have it, but Aigner sawboy does exactly like the L-fence jig does, it mounts on the rip fence. You can mount your L-fence jig to the rip fence on the slider too. Aigner sawboy's build and finish is just super nice and more expensive.

James

On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 8:13?AM netanel.belgazal via <netanel.belgazal=[email protected]> wrote:

Show quoted text

I wonder if someone has experience using the Aigner Sawboy jig?

?

When I had a regular cabinet saw I used to work with a L fence jig for cutting patterns using templates (I find it more accurate then flush trim on a router table)

I just found out that Aigner has a product that function as L-fence and I wonder if someone has a familiarity with this product? (or has a better way to pattern cut on a slider)

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136775

Rusty,

The arbor/throat plate/housing on the the Fleder table saw isn't too small to accommodate such a large head? 55mm is more than double the max dado the saw supports.

Aigner Sawboy

#136774

I wonder if someone has experience using the Aigner Sawboy jig?

Aigner Sawboy

When I had a regular cabinet saw I used to work with a L fence jig for cutting patterns using templates (I find it more accurate then flush trim on a router table)

I just found out that Aigner has a product that function as L-fence and I wonder if someone has a familiarity with this product? (or has a better way to pattern cut on a slider)

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136773

Rusty,
The Whitehill head is a large 200mm head that I use in the saw. I have the smaller limiter head for the shaper.
The recessed head will work for the outside corners but for the bars a custom router bit would work for the haunching. 
Possibly ones they use in the Stegherr mini would work. Adam King in the UK makes a similar machine. I didn’t notice the brand of router bits he uses in his at the Fensterbau show.
I would run that on the shaper with a router spindle.

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136772

Yes, it looks like others like the French miter approach too so that's good.??

You've got a good machine that won't limit you for this project so that is nice!

B

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136771

开云体育

I bought that and really like it.

Mark Foster

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On Jun 18, 2024, at 23:07, splinterboy via groups.io <splinterboy@...> wrote:

?Thanks Joe. ? Is that a combi head on your tablesaw? ?The Whitehill 125 X 55mm cutter block with the bolt recess on the top is indeed what I will most likely be purchasing. ?

With everyone's heIp I have figured out that the way I made the initial door set would be better described as a "French cope". ? This required lots of chisel and knife work whereas a "French miter" would have been a better choice! ?Unfortunately this won't help us on the muntin bars so that is one of things we are looking into addressing with custom knives. ?Brent has been super helpful with knife profiles and has offered great advice for this project. ? ?We are working out the remaining details and I will update once the project gets underway. ??

-Rusty

--
Mark Foster

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136770

Thanks Joe. ? Is that a combi head on your tablesaw? ?The Whitehill 125 X 55mm cutter block with the bolt recess on the top is indeed what I will most likely be purchasing. ?

With everyone's heIp I have figured out that the way I made the initial door set would be better described as a "French cope". ? This required lots of chisel and knife work whereas a "French miter" would have been a better choice! ?Unfortunately this won't help us on the muntin bars so that is one of things we are looking into addressing with custom knives. ?Brent has been super helpful with knife profiles and has offered great advice for this project. ? ?We are working out the remaining details and I will update once the project gets underway. ??

-Rusty

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136769

To do the haunching I have also used a Kreg router bit they use for haunched beaded face frames in the shaper with a router spindle. These were narrow frames and the Whitehill block has enough depth of cut I could have run it on the shaper. I don’t use router tables but that could work also. Another possibility with a Felder shaper is to use a cutter with a let in top spindle cap so you can cut over the shaft.

IMG_1983.jpeg

IMG_1982.jpeg

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136768

One way to do a custom profile where the tenon does not line up with a rebate or groove is to do a French miter. This is where you cut a 45 degree haunch in the stiles and another smaller 45 degree haunch on the rail end. I do this without any special tooling for one off projects. It would be possible to do what you want with matched slot and tenon tools but that would be very costly for a small quantity.
These pictures show the process I used for a couple window screens made from 30mm thick material. 
First cut I’m using a large Whitehill limiter block in the sliding saw to do the end of the stiles. Depth of this cut has to match the depth of your rebate. Second cut is on the end of the rails for the mating 45 cut. This will be a different setting on the fence of the saw but same height of cutter. The Whitehill cutter is a real screamer and takes a heavy machine to run. I will show some pictures in the next post where this could be done on a shaper a couple ways or even a router table.
Next simple square edge tenons are cut centered in the workpieces. I used my Garniga Multiuse stacked with spacers. Many ways to do this also. Last and not shown in the pictures the rebate and profile are run on the shaper. I did the mortise first but the order probably does not mater. You can see the line the knicker left on the rebate but that does not effect anything. For the beveled edge I used an existing glass bead cutter but this could have been done many ways. Tilting the shaft or using a multi angle cutter. The beauty of this is you do not need matching cope cutters.

These pictures show an additional saw cut that is for the screen spline.

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136767

There's a bit of a challenge there with the? tenon location not letting you cope the whole joint, but we'll see what we can come up with.

Re: Will custom shaper knives make this project easier?

#136766

Hi Rusty, you could certainly email your thoughts and drawings to me as a first step before we engage the grinding shop, I do this all the time and would be happy to help you out,

Brent

Re: Digital protractor..

#136765

开云体育

The more you know the less you know!

martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell

airtightclamps@...

Designing and building for 50 years

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On Jun 17, 2024, at 3:02?PM, stevensivak via groups.io <stevensivak@...> wrote:

? No kidding!

From 30$ to 1,000$ with nothing in between- ?boo-hoo!

But in my defense, I did not know what I did not know….

Steven Sivak

<SSA Email Signature.jpg>

w:?? ? ? p: 248.860.3228

On Jun 17, 2024, at 3:56?PM, Brandon Nickel <brandon.nickel@...> wrote:

When you post to a Felder group and use the phrase "regardless of price", you should not be surprised when very expensive options are provided. Precision tools are not cheap, and there isn't much in between the Woodcraft level and the Starrett level, unfortunately. Perhaps in the future you could more accurately describe your request and that might improve the relevance of your responses.?

Re: Digital protractor..

stevensivak

#136764

开云体育

No kidding!

From 30$ to 1,000$ with nothing in between- ?boo-hoo!

But in my defense, I did not know what I did not know….

Steven Sivak

w:?? ? ? p: 248.860.3228

Show quoted text

On Jun 17, 2024, at 3:56?PM, Brandon Nickel <brandon.nickel@...> wrote:

When you post to a Felder group and use the phrase "regardless of price", you should not be surprised when very expensive options are provided. Precision tools are not cheap, and there isn't much in between the Woodcraft level and the Starrett level, unfortunately. Perhaps in the future you could more accurately describe your request and that might improve the relevance of your responses.?

Re: Digital protractor..

#136763

When you post to a Felder group and use the phrase "regardless of price", you should not be surprised when very expensive options are provided. Precision tools are not cheap, and there isn't much in between the Woodcraft level and the Starrett level, unfortunately. Perhaps in the future you could more accurately describe your request and that might improve the relevance of your responses.?

Re: Digital protractor..

#136762

开云体育

Very nice! ?

I especially like the digital microscope. ?I wanted something like that to more accurately place glazing beads when cutting to mark for the windows. ?The microscope would have solved my issue nicely.

The EGL and DGL will work on any slider if you can get a mounting block or make a mounting block. ?

What I liked about the EGL was that the scale was huge and easy to read. ?There really is no reason to pay extra for EGL calulator as it just calculates the angles for miters of two different width workpieces. ?The extensions for the EGL were nice though. ?

Altendorf sells a compound miter attachment that has a DRO that is nice but more expensive than Felders offerings. ?Martin also sells one. ?

Joe

?I used a magnifying light that David Best gave to me but the microscope would have worked better.

Note the giant scale around the arc at the back of the EGL.

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On Jun 17, 2024, at 12:06?PM, stevensivak via groups.io <stevensivak@...> wrote:

That is the challenge, but it has been met- look at his set up!

Steven Sivak

<SSA Email Signature.jpg>
w:?? ? ? p: 248.860.3228

On Jun 17, 2024, at 3:03?PM, bacchus6015 via groups.io <joeinno@...> wrote:

Every time I found myself needing something hyper-accurate for woodworking and there did not seem to be a common solution I learned that the design was wrong for wood.

Martin makes a very nice compound miter solution for their saws that is accurate to .01 degrees. ?Depending on how long your edges that is probably not enough to cut perfect parts.

If you want to machine a material more accurately than that then you get into metal working machinery and maybe even a jig borer. ?Mac Campshure told me about the Moore Jig Grinder/borer and I read a couple books about Metrology trying to learn what tolerance was workable in a woodshop. ?My goal in my shop when making tilt and turn windows was plus or minus .1mm. ?This is very hard to achieve and I rarely did but that was the goal. ?

I once hired a shop to make Plywood boxes for an art museum. ?He showed me how the beveled joints just had to be close, not perfect, and how it was a simple mater to run the edge of screwdriver shaft along the seam and close the gaps. ?Knowing how to work with the material made the finished product possible. ?

Joe

??

On Jun 17, 2024, at 11:06?AM, stevensivak via groups.io <stevensivak@...> wrote:

Well at the end of the day, the $1,000 starrett tool is the only solution, damn!

Steven Sivak

<SSA Email Signature.jpg>
w:?? ? ? p: 248.860.3228

On Jun 17, 2024, at 2:00?PM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:

I have a couple of those digital level gizmos too. I used one for setting blade tilt angle on a cabinet saw, and it was an improvement over the indicator on the saw itself. If one needs super precise measurements it is not likely to be sufficient. The base is narrow and is plastic, so manufacturing tolerances limit them.

They are robust. I saw one get launched across a shop when the operator turned the saw on with the device still on the blade. The case is a bit chewed up, but it still works.
--?
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941