To add to David and Aaron¡¯s advice, keep in mind that, if needed, there should be a 5th support point to counter the weight of the saw aggregate. I am not 100% about K700 but it is present in my KF and K975 saw. This will allow you to remove a dip in cast iron close to the middle of the table. Check you saw parts drawing to locate this bracket. Here is how it appears in my K975 drawing. See label B to visualize where the bracket is attached to the saw chassis. The vertical bolt at the end of the bracket is the persuader. Meant to remove small dips, go easy as it can potentially crack the cast iron.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 7, 2024, at 11:30?AM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote: ?Sorry, one more thing.? I see that you have a mobility kit.? If you decide to move the saw around a lot, you will likely cause the alignment to go out of spec whenever you "move" the saw.? If your not picky about a .010" spec, then that's fine.
-Aaron
|
Thank you David.
Aaron - I don¡¯t have the mobility kit. I installed yesterday levelling feet on the machine.
|
Sorry, one more thing.? I see that you have a mobility kit.? If you decide to move the saw around a lot, you will likely cause the alignment to go out of spec whenever you "move" the saw.? If your not picky about a .010" spec, then that's fine.
-Aaron
|
Netanel,
I had the same kind of precision level results on my K700S before I adjusted the leveling feet.? I would recommend doing leveling feet first.? This should let you resolve the cast iron twist issue.? I would not start working with the cast iron mounting bolts at this point.? Like David said, the chassis/frame of this machine is flexible enough where it will allow a twist in the cast iron top if the floor is not flat.
-Aaron
|
In that case, you should make some adjustments. ? The important thing is that the cast-iron table is as flat flat as possible by getting the edge along the rip fence to be coplanar with the edge along the extension table at the outfeed side of the chassis. ?The cast iron top becomes the reference surface to which you align the sliding table, so if the reference surface is not flat, you¡¯re be chasing your tail when you get to the sliding table alignment.?
The cast top doesn¡¯t have to be level per se, but it does have to be as flat as possible. Cast iron surfaces are easy to twist into the shape of a banana if your machine is not sitting on a flat floor surface (Felder machine chassis are flexible enough to conform to the floor surface). So I always recommend putting the machine on adjustable leveling feet and using those leveling feet to adjust the top to a flat surface.?
Failing that, the cast iron top is suspended at all four corners via adjustable threaded studs and adjusting nuts and jamb nuts which attach it to the machine chassis. You can use those four adjustment points to bring your cast-iron top into a near perfectly flat condition. They are called out in the attached parts diagram, and you will find four (4) such attachment points - one at each corner of the cast iron top. ?Once that¡¯s accomplished, you can move onto aligning the sliding table surface to the cast-iron top surface. Hope this helps.
David Best DBestWorkshop@... https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/ https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best 
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 6, 2024, at 10:35?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
I am not talking about the slider itself. And how it is reference to the cast iron. I am talking about the fact that the cast iron itself isn¡¯t coplanar?
|
Re: CF741 with Grit Automation
On 6-5-2024 18:32, pierre.bourassa via groups.io wrote: After reading all the nice comments about the Grit Automation on the previous topic, I wish to take this route with my CF741. However, being a combination machine, I was wondering if anyone had installed Grit with the CF741. For instance, I guess it is easy to detect the the power is on using the toroid on the main power cable, but how do you detect which of the 3 motor is actually on? You will need to put a current sensing coil on one lead of all of the motors (only three I think). I saw that Felder resells a device from Ziehl that detects current running through 1-8 machines (link at ) - I guess that this would be useless using Grit automation devices/sensors? That is an alternative (and possibly cheaper, and less feature rich approach. Still needs the current sensing coils though. Finally, one last issue, my dust collector is a Harvey GyroAir 700. I usually leave the machine powered on and use the remote to start/stop it. Just powering up the machine won't turn the extractor on, you need to press a button or use the remote. Anyone has used the G700 with some form of automation? The larger models G800 and G1000 can come equipped with automated remote circuit, but they cost a lot more, and are quite a bit larger for my hobby shop. I could have gone with the RL140, but again, over twice the price of the G700. I like the G700, but when I do serious planing, the small capacity and the fact that it stops with an alarm way before it fills up the bags makes me stop working, open the dust container, reshuffle the chips and start again. Lots of handling, but again, just a hobby shop. I can't see any production shop using the G700 except for a table saw or a CNC... It is best to direct your questions to the GRIT team. From what I have read here they seem to provide excellent support and should be capable of answering your questions most likely. Kind regards, Jonathan
|
I am not talking about the slider itself. And how it is reference to the cast iron. I am talking about the fact that the cast iron itself isn¡¯t coplanar?
|
I use the precision machine level and align it on one side of the saw. I moved it to the backend of the cast iron and it show a big difference. I added a filler gauge of 0.25¡± (inch and not mm as described above) to one of the side of the level in order to aligned it.
 
|
Adjusting the cast iron table flatness and the alignment of the sliding table to a flat cast iron table is part of the normal commissioning procedure. ?A Felder tech will align the sliding table to be 0.010¡± (that¡¯s 0.254mm) above the cast iron top as part of the commissioning package. ?But it is certainly possible to dial it in closer. ?Sound like your machine is to Felder spec, but you didn¡¯t comment about how well it stays aligned as it¡¯s moved forward & back. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 6, 2024, at 10:20?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
I level the machine today and start measure the tolerance of the saw.
I find out that the cast iron top is out of complainer of 0.25mm. It looks a bit high, no?
I thought Felder line suppose to be calibrated at the at for higher level than the Hammer line.
|
Well?Netanel, did you look closer? ?What did you find? ?Post photos as requested please.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 2, 2024, at 11:12?PM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
Now I¡¯m confused. ?I¡¯m not saying you are wrong, but unless Felder has modified their measuring tape system, the measurement scale should be movable - if for no other reason than to facilitate shifts left/right to calibrate it accurately to the position of the saw blade cut. ?Typically the measurement scale is anchored into one of the slots in the extrusion with a hex-shaped wafer with a locking grub screw as shown below:
You can see this in the end-view of the crosscut fence shown below (red points to locking wafer, green to the movable aluminum strip). ?
If you have a telescoping extension, that measurement scale is typically etched into the bar that slides out from inside the extrusion, but it¡¯s a simple matter to paste a different sticky-back tape over the existing version. ? On the rip fence, more typically the aluminum scale strip is held in position by a leaf spring under the rule that pushes it up in the slot against the lip overhangs.
Please take some photos of your fence extrusion and scale from the end position (like above) so we can see how the measurement scale is affixed to the extrusion, and post them here. ?
On May 2, 2024, at 10:46?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 09:37 PM, David P. Best wrote:
lied scale is an aluminum strip that can be moved right/left as required to make it accurately read relative to the saw blade kerf cut. ?Just stick down the new one on the back of the aluminum s The strip that move left to right is only on the rip fence. On the crosscut fence it is fixed and it doesn't move. This is why I think I'll have issues with the calibrate it. For the crosscut fence I shouldn't get both (R2L for the fence and L2R for the telescopic section)?
|
I level the machine today and start measure the tolerance of the saw.
I find out that the cast iron top is out of complainer of 0.25mm. It looks a bit high, no?
I thought Felder line suppose to be calibrated at the at for higher level than the Hammer line.
|
So do you the power the grit e-stop from DC current??
|
Netanel,
I guess I was not clear in the video.? The transformers are in the machines already.? I am just using existing taps to power the e-stop controllers.? It does not connect to the e-stops.
PK
|
Imran,?
Your point holds up? if properly sized for the workspace volume and particulate filtration, sure. Bigger cfms and smaller particulate is the goal however it's achieved.
If you are looking primarily for "removing the dust from the air", I would say it depends on which model has the most CFM capability in addition to the most static pressure.? This determines how well it will pull the dust away for things like your CNC machine and wide-belt sander.
Now, "keeping the dust out of the air" is a completely different topic.? If you have asthma or lungs that are sensitive to fine dust, then the baghouse filters are likely going to be poor solutions.? Nedermen doesn't publish what type of bag filters they use, but bags are usually specified at 30 micron or 5 micron.? Typical cartridge filters are around 2 micron.?? The HEPA style filters from Clearvue and Oneida cyclones are in the .2 to .3 micron range.
-Aaron
|
It always amuses me that people who have no hesitation in spending 10's of thousands of dollars on a table saw and other workshop machinery always want a cheap answer to dust collection even though it is a primary health risk. I had a lady call me to order a cyclone as her husband kept he awake at night with his coughing and spluttering and she was sick and tired of it so she spent his money to solve the issue.?
|
If you are looking primarily for "removing the dust from the air", I would say it depends on which model has the most CFM capability in addition to the most static pressure.? This determines how well it will pull the dust away for things like your CNC machine and wide-belt sander.
Now, "keeping the dust out of the air" is a completely different topic.? If you have asthma or lungs that are sensitive to fine dust, then the baghouse filters are likely going to be poor solutions.? Nedermen doesn't publish what type of bag filters they use, but bags are usually specified at 30 micron or 5 micron.? Typical cartridge filters are around 2 micron.?? The HEPA style filters from Clearvue and Oneida cyclones are in the .2 to .3 micron range.
-Aaron
|
Brett,
Let¡¯s say there is no HVAC, what about running a good air cleaner vs sizing the dust collector beyond chip collection needs. Upsizing the dust collector seems like an expensive option to implement and run. Can similar or adequate results be achieved with an air cleaner?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 6, 2024, at 4:55?PM, Brett Wissel via groups.io <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? David Davies -?
My conclusions have led to: 1. Anything HEPA-labelled? will outfilter fine particulate better than non HEPA labelled. However it will have tradeoff of less capacity.? 2. I believe total area cleaning must consider the affected work area spatially, not just the tools. The bigger the collector to filter more air out of the space, the better. Most systems are drastically undersized to meet area spatial cleaning requirements. 3. Fresh air replacing dust-contaminated air can be easy to achieve and cheapest to implement, sometimes just temporarily to flush a volume. 4. When engineering controls won't get there, there's still PPE - a good dust mask and/or particulate-filtering respirator properly setup will get you through. 5. If you run a large HVAC unit to circulate air in the work space with good filtration continuously, you may be surprised how much better it cleans the air than?when cycling intermittently. But you have to stay on top of the filter maintenance. On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 1:12?PM David Davies via <myfinishingtouch= [email protected]> wrote: With all of the discussion about the Dylos sensor it has me wondering about which dust collector really does the best job at removing dust before it gets into the air.? It seems to me there are three main variants:
Cyclone - Oneida attached to a HEPA filter
Baghouse - Neederman style
Euro - Felder RL or AL-KO
Wide belt sanders and CNC machines seem to be the most stressing of machines on dust collectors.? I don't have a WBS sander yet but I foresee one in my future.? Ideally I'd like to keep the conditioned air in my shop if possible.
I'd love to get your opinions on this as I may need to consider getting a different dust collector next year.
Thanks
Dave Davies
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
David Davies -?
My conclusions have led to: 1. Anything HEPA-labelled? will outfilter fine particulate better than non HEPA labelled. However it will have tradeoff of less capacity.? 2. I believe total area cleaning must consider the affected work area spatially, not just the tools. The bigger the collector to filter more air out of the space, the better. Most systems are drastically undersized to meet area spatial cleaning requirements. 3. Fresh air replacing dust-contaminated air can be easy to achieve and cheapest to implement, sometimes just temporarily to flush a volume. 4. When engineering controls won't get there, there's still PPE - a good dust mask and/or particulate-filtering respirator properly setup will get you through. 5. If you run a large HVAC unit to circulate air in the work space with good filtration continuously, you may be surprised how much better it cleans the air than?when cycling intermittently. But you have to stay on top of the filter maintenance.
On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 1:12?PM David Davies via <myfinishingtouch= [email protected]> wrote: With all of the discussion about the Dylos sensor it has me wondering about which dust collector really does the best job at removing dust before it gets into the air.? It seems to me there are three main variants:
Cyclone - Oneida attached to a HEPA filter
Baghouse - Neederman style
Euro - Felder RL or AL-KO
Wide belt sanders and CNC machines seem to be the most stressing of machines on dust collectors.? I don't have a WBS sander yet but I foresee one in my future.? Ideally I'd like to keep the conditioned air in my shop if possible.
I'd love to get your opinions on this as I may need to consider getting a different dust collector next year.
Thanks
Dave Davies
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
It is interesting, Jim. Thanks for chiming in!
I thought there must be an assumption about material density baked into the Dylos machine. Maybe Dylos shares that assumption. It does not have to be exact, as wood density varies widely. Fir and pine will run around 33 pounds per cubic foot, while the Jatoba flooring I¡¯m using is about 57 pcf.
The OSHA standards do not take density into account either. Wood dust of all types is lumped together with all other not-otherwise-regulated material.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
With all of the discussion about the Dylos sensor it has me wondering about which dust collector really does the best job at removing dust before it gets into the air.? It seems to me there are three main variants:
Cyclone - Oneida attached to a HEPA filter
Baghouse - Neederman style
Euro - Felder RL or AL-KO
Wide belt sanders and CNC machines seem to be the most stressing of machines on dust collectors.? I don't have a WBS sander yet but I foresee one in my future.? Ideally I'd like to keep the conditioned air in my shop if possible.
I'd love to get your opinions on this as I may need to consider getting a different dust collector next year.
Thanks
Dave Davies
|
imran
David P. Best
Jonathan Martens
PK