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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Hello Imran,
Just a quick update, been in touch with K&N and they can supply a custom made switch for ?225. Felder came in at 256. ?A lot of expense for a switch, but I want/need the machine to function properly and will go for the cheaper option in the future.
I appreciate the option of disassembly to repair and my brother has offered this but to avoid using his time and to keep machine running, I¡¯ll have a go at swapping a new switch over myself, wire for wire. ?Your input has been most kind, useful and much appreciated,
thank you.?
Alex
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On 4 Feb 2024, at 13:51, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Hi Alex,
In your machine, K&N selector switch does 2 functions. One is the control side and the other is power to the motor. It appears that the control side is working (indicated by the correct motor being started) but the power side apparently not. I assume that
the motor is not getting full voltage. This can be a dirty connection or worse but it could also be that the control side is dropping in/out. In the later case you would have heard the chatter, so the issue me be the former. It may be worthwhile blowing some
air and tapping the switch to dislodge any dust build up.
There is a thread here, from few yrs ago, where Felder supplied a different K&N selector switch with some jumpers to make it work the same as original, so that may be an option.
These switches are modular in design. Another used switch can be used to scavenge parts. I assume it is cam type. The option for each stage is to make connections in T, L or I orientations. Let¡¯s hope cleaning works or Felder comes thru (they are still
using this type of switch) otherwise it would be bit of a project.
On Feb 4, 2024, at 4:37?AM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
?
Hello Imran,
My brother came over and replaced the large capacitor and hey presto, the planer and saw work perfectly. Sadly the ?spindle moulder wouldn¡¯t start. It was trying and rotated very slowly but wouldn¡¯t energise and start properly. Nick tested the
switch and found it to be faulty and I¡¯ve tried to locate the Kraus and Naimer ?A14 switch with no success at the moment. I¡¯ll call felder tomorrow. I did see a thread on this group which you contributed to which seemed to limit acquisition to felder directly.?
Alex
On 31 Jan 2024, at 14:06, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
? That¡¯s encouraging, I¡¯ll let you know the outcome in a ?few days when my brother pops over to help out.?
Thanks?
On 31 Jan 2024, at 12:16, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Alex, Larger one is the start cap and the symptoms match. So hoping all will work once you replace it ?
On Jan 31, 2024, at 7:08?AM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
? Thanks Imran, there is no visible evidence on the capacitors. I replaced the smaller one a while back which exploded and caught fire. I bought replacements for both but only replaced the defective one. I¡¯ll now replace the larger one and hope
it works. Many thanks for your help.?
Best regards?
Alex
On 30 Jan 2024, at 17:49, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Alex,
Thanks for the details. I hope the cap replacement fixes your issue. Hopefully you have replacement for both of them. If not look for one with a popped end. If no visual evidence, I would replace CA first as that is the start capacitor. It should be the
larger in value, assuming they are not same. If they are same value, you will need to beep their connections relative to the wiring diagram to find out which is CA and CB. Would be nice if they are labeled. Good luck.
On Jan 30, 2024, at 12:10?PM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Imran, it¡¯s difficult to describe the symptoms as initially there was a grunting straining ?sound that seemed like a braking hum and it tripped the rcd. I turned it on again, the saw started, then the stop switch failed to operate instantly,
then when it did the motor stopped quite violently but the braking didn¡¯t switch itself off, it tripped the rcd. Now none of the motors run, I just get a laboured hum. I¡¯ll get the capacitor replaced and see what happens. Many thanks
Alex
On 30 Jan 2024, at 15:13, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Alex,
Sure, from your original post, I thought you were having braking issue, i.e. RCD trip at turn off during braking. But if the motors don¡¯t run then replacing caps should help. Once motors are running and the RCD trips during braking we can look into it.
On Jan 30, 2024, at 10:02?AM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
?
Hi Imran,?
I have another couple of diagrams which maybe could help. I didn¡¯t send them as didn¡¯t want to complicate. ?The machine was manufactured in 1999. The motors do not run, just lots of hum before the rcd trips. I¡¯m just going to fit the new capacitor
. Cheers?
Alex
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
On 30 Jan 2024, at 14:51, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?
Hi Alex,
Correct, this schematic is for 2KW but for one w/o brake function. If the motors are starting up and running normally then capacitors are good.
My schematic has a date (bottom left) 15.09.1994. I cannot read the date on your schematic but I assume it is older because your machine does not show the low voltage transformer. So all switches are 220VAC vs ~24VAC in newer machines including the schematic
I have dated 1994.
If you machine has/had braking function then the schematic is not correct. I was fine for capacitors purpose. You should request a sch for your machine with brake function.
On Jan 30, 2024, at 9:24?AM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Imran,?
I¡¯ve managed to find the big book, but it¡¯s only a spare parts book. However a capacitor replacement a while back (just one replaced) instigated a request for the wiring diagram from felder for this 2kw machine : ?I will replace the other capacitor
which I have to see if that rectifies the problem when I get time and see where we go from there.?
Thanks?
Alex
<image1.jpeg>
On 28 Jan 2024, at 14:46, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? No Worries Alex. Is your machine ~5KW? If so, I see Y-D start which adds more relays; K4 is one of them. There is no K4 in the first schematic I shared which was for a 2KW machine.
Do you have the big book of your machine? The schematics and other important info is in there. Here are couple of shots to show you what is in the book that I have.
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
If you do not have the machine book with wiring diagram info as shown above, I suggest you contact Felder and get a copy. They may be able to guide you as well as to the location of the relays.
The pics you shared are not very sharp. Appears there is at least one more relay by the selector switch. Still it would be difficult to guide you because I do not know where these are located and for that matter if my schematic matches your machine in
the first place.
Once you have the wiring diagram and you poke around a bit more to try to locate components, I can try to help.
Imran Malik
On Jan 28, 2024, at 4:48?AM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
? Hi Imran,?
Sorry for the late response, just found your message in my junk ! Thanks for the wiring diagram , most useful as I seem to have misplaced mine. Looking on the circuit board, I could only find K1 and K4 and the other connecting block visible from the top
where the capacitors feed into. There is nothing on the circuit board where the K2 and K3 markings are. Do you know if the circuit board is serviceable or do I replace the whole unit ??
Thanks?
Alex
On 23 Jan 2024, at 23:50, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote:
?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I¡¯ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I¡¯m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I¡¯m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
|
Re: Retro spiral cutter head?
Ok thanks Tom. What is the advantage of tersa cutter blocks?
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On 16 Feb 2024, at 10:09?am, Tom Gensmer <tom@...> wrote:
?Hi Phil,?
?If you're exploring alternative cutter blocks, you could also look into whether there's a Tersa cutterblock available:?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Tom, Although I don¡¯t own one I have set up and purchased for a few manufactures, For a small shop very versatile. | |
mac,,
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 17, 2024, at 5:24?PM, Tom Gensmer <tom@...> wrote:
?Hi Mac,?
?I have the doweling/boring bar for the FD-250, along with the hollow chisel mortiser kit. The hollow chisel mortiser attachment package comes with the rack and pinion lever, absolutely worth it even if you never needed to use a hollow chisel.?
?As Tim points out, I do still get some use out of the Domino XL, but since I received the FD-250 I find myself using it more and more in lieu of the Domino XL. ?Bonus, the FD-250 works great for producing mortises for the Domino tenons when needed.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Mac,?
?I have the doweling/boring bar for the FD-250, along with the hollow chisel mortiser kit. The hollow chisel mortiser attachment package comes with the rack and pinion lever, absolutely worth it even if you never needed to use a hollow chisel.?
?As Tim points out, I do still get some use out of the Domino XL, but since I received the FD-250 I find myself using it more and more in lieu of the Domino XL. ?Bonus, the FD-250 works great for producing mortises for the Domino tenons when needed.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Adjusting AD951 jointer fence squareness
All My current fence setting is very slightly off and when I tried to follow the instructions to adjust the zero-degree setting for the fence, I discovered that I was already at the end of the travel, which meant the the bolt that's used as a stop has no effect.? I was curious if there is some other way I can adjust the zero setting of the fence? Thanks Anil   
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Here¡¯s another vote for the Domino. Fast setup and repeatable. Max mortiser depth of 70 mm but can go from two sides if you need a longer through tenon. As Tom showed with the dowels, you can run mortises then machine shoulder or stub tenon if you wish. These tenons are 12 mm X 138 mm.
Thanks Tom. This is good to know. Terminology was the hindrance. I was thinking of small blocks with which the x direction is controlled instead of this block that goes on top of the table. ? Imran ? ? Here are some photos of the FD-250 in use as a dowel boring machine:?
?Drill the first row of holes in the stile:?
... And the first row of holes in the rail:?
For the second row of holes, move the cast iron block to the other side of the table, and flip the boards:?
After drilling the holes, mill the boards, then assemble:?
Hopefully the above info/photos helps to demonstrate the setup
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Tom ,? I assume you have the mortising devise to make dowel drilling reasonable?
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 17, 2024, at 2:03?PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thanks Tom. This is good to know. Terminology was the hindrance. I was thinking of small blocks with which the x direction is controlled instead of this block that goes on top of the table. ? Imran ? ? Here are some photos of the FD-250 in use as a dowel boring machine:?
?Drill the first row of holes in the stile:?
<image001.jpg> ... And the first row of holes in the rail:? <image002.jpg> For the second row of holes, move the cast iron block to the other side of the table, and flip the boards:? <image003.jpg> <image004.jpg> After drilling the holes, mill the boards, then assemble:? <image005.jpg> Hopefully the above info/photos helps to demonstrate the setup -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Thanks Tom. This is good to know. Terminology was the hindrance. I was thinking of small blocks with which the x direction is controlled instead of this block that goes on top of the table. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Tom Gensmer Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2024 2:09 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Mortising unit v Pantorouter ? Here are some photos of the FD-250 in use as a dowel boring machine:?
?Drill the first row of holes in the stile:?
... And the first row of holes in the rail:?
For the second row of holes, move the cast iron block to the other side of the table, and flip the boards:?
After drilling the holes, mill the boards, then assemble:?
Hopefully the above info/photos helps to demonstrate the setup
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Here are some photos of the FD-250 in use as a dowel boring machine:? ?Drill the first row of holes in the stile:?  ... And the first row of holes in the rail:?  For the second row of holes, move the cast iron block to the other side of the table, and flip the boards:?   After drilling the holes, mill the boards, then assemble:?  Hopefully the above info/photos helps to demonstrate the setup -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
FYI Felder accessories mortiser attachment.
I built 5 of these side tables / book shelf¡¯s / plant shelfs with a bf631 2 meter with mortiser attachment back in 90¡¯s . Had 5 pieces of salvaged 1/2¡± plate and some local red oak I cut around the bug damage and used it up! Used clico mortise bits. Not available ?anymore. Cut walnut wedges with 20 mm leitz fingers joint. Some where I have pictures of a stand alone mortiser I built for a chair maker in Iowa city. Mac,,,
  
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:25?PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Brian,
Thanks for confirming this. It really is for the knowledge of the forum. It was several yrs ago, IIRC, the poster mentioned that it was a serious issue with smaller bits as they are not long.
On Feb 16, 2024, at 10:12?PM, Brian <brian.milidrag@...> wrote:
? Imran,
Nowhere near 6 inches and change at least with the Felder bits. Probably closer to 3¡±¡I can check travel tomorrow and give you an exact number Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Nathan,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I have a slot mortiser ?on a C3 31. ?I debated at the time between this and a Festool Domino. For me, I bought the wrong machine.
Eventually I bought the Festool anyway, and have never used the mortiser since. It's fine at what it is designed to do, but I find that the domino machine is much more versatile and takes seconds to set up, rather that minutes with the mortiser.
Get yourself the best set of cutters that you can, as it makes a world of difference both in time and finish.
Trevor Lusty
Ireland?
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Brian,
Thanks for confirming this. It really is for the knowledge of the forum. It was several yrs ago, IIRC, the poster mentioned that it was a serious issue with smaller bits as they are not long.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 16, 2024, at 10:12?PM, Brian <brian.milidrag@...> wrote: ? Imran,
Nowhere near 6 inches and change at least with the Felder bits. Probably closer to 3¡±¡I can check travel tomorrow and give you an exact number Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Imran,
Nowhere near 6 inches and change at least with the Felder bits. Probably closer to 3¡±¡I can check travel tomorrow and give you an exact number Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Tom, Thanks for the update. I don¡¯t quite follow your trick, maybe when you do it next you can share a pic. Here is my trick to get repeatable mortice lengths. If the stock is large, with multiple lengths of mortices, I rather finish each piece verses rotate stock on the machine for each specific mortice length. Just cut the needed length of this pipe to reduce the horizontal travel. I had to glue two pieces to get the height to hit the center bolt squarely. I set the horizontal stop for the longest mortice and then inserted these pieces (on the inside of the stops) to get shorter mortices. Worked really well. Imran From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Tom Gensmer Sent: Friday, February 16, 2024 6:46 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Mortising unit v Pantorouter Hi Imran, Yes, I forgot to mention the stop system available for the FD-250, which allows for repeat drilling/mortising operations where the material extends beyond the table surface. A neat trick I discovered on my FD-250 involves using the dowel boring jig, in conjunction with the little cast iron indexing block. I found that, with a little tweaking, the 16mm drilling template indexes perfectly with the left- and right- positions for the little cast iron indexing block. This is really handy for dowel boring for doors/windows. Admittedly, the FD-250 is a niche product, but I'm getting a lot of use out of it, not quite daily but definitely several times per week. -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Imran,?
?Yes, I forgot to mention the stop system available for the FD-250, which allows for repeat drilling/mortising operations where the material extends beyond the table surface.?
?A neat trick I discovered on my FD-250 involves using the dowel boring jig, in conjunction with the little cast iron indexing block. I found that, with a little tweaking, the 16mm drilling template indexes perfectly with the left- and right- positions for the little cast iron indexing block. This is really handy for dowel boring for doors/windows.?
?Admittedly, the FD-250 is a niche product, but I'm getting a lot of use out of it, not quite daily but definitely several times per week.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hey.? Are you able to ship?? ?if so please?call me at 678-794-7308
Alan
[Edited Message Follows]
Updated price, for sale is a Felder K700 P, purchased last year not used yet unfortunately planned project fell through. The machine is single phase 4hp motor and 1hp scoring motor, with 6ft slider and 31in table, overhead dust collection, outrigger and outrigger dolly also included. Remote stop and start, with powerdrive with height and angle blade adjustment. Asking 10000.00 or OBO located in Houston Texas. If you have any questions please feel free to reach out at 713.732.9554, call or text.
-- Alan Jones Owner, HiFi Buys
Our highest goal at HiFi Buys is to create a customer experience that is outstanding; so outstanding, in fact, that you want to tell others. Our customers are our best ambassadors and your reviews are vitally important to our growth and longevity. So if you are so inclined, we¡¯d love if you could tell your friends, write a review and post your story on social media so others can enjoy the same great experience that you have. Thank you!
???
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Re: You get what you pay for. Cheap digital fence readout.
Fiama makes a small aluminum extrusion that can hold the banding and be surface mounted. If your cat table isn¡¯t consistent enough, you could shim the extrusion as necessary and create a channel that runs parallel to the sliding portion of the fence.?
In the same vein, lots of LED lighting has aluminum extrusions and I bet it¡¯s the same 10mm wide channel¡. Look on Amazon.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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Show quoted text
On Feb 16, 2024, at 10:31?AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
Mike, thanks for the info. I have an SCM S540P, which does not have a scale strip. I think I can stick the magnetic band to the table, and mount the display to the bandsaw frame. The read head can probably tuck under the fence. That will leave the cable exposed, but it seems it will probably be out of the way.
First thing is to check the distance between the table and the bar the fence runs on. If it varies too much the clearance between the read had and magnetic strip will get out of tolerance. That was an issue with my K700S.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: You get what you pay for. Cheap digital fence readout.
Mike, thanks for the info. I have an SCM S540P, which does not have a scale strip. I think I can stick the magnetic band to the table, and mount the display to the bandsaw frame. The read head can probably tuck under the fence. That will leave the cable exposed, but it seems it will probably be out of the way.
First thing is to check the distance between the table and the bar the fence runs on. If it varies too much the clearance between the read had and magnetic strip will get out of tolerance. That was an issue with my K700S.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Tom Gensmer
imran
Brian