Funny you mention that. When I built the last few Big Squeeze few yrs back, I decided to get the oscillating sander and Rigid was my choice because it did both for a reasonable price. I tried 2 and they both made horrible noise. Tech on phone could not figure out the source and just asked me to return it. HD is nearly an hour away from me so I gave up. I know they ship for free but I needed it to finish the build. That is when I bought the Jet Oscillating spindle sander, which is great. I think I will find many uses for this for wood and metal. Now need to find space for it in the shop.
On Feb 6, 2024, at 10:49?PM, James Zhu <james.zhu2@...> wrote:
?
Imran,
I followed the technique Michael Fortune described in the attached Fine Woodworking article, it does work. Now, I can bandsaw the template (straight or curved) very close to the line.?
I use Ridgid oscillating edge belt/spindle sander (bought years ago at HomeDepot, CAD$200) and DIY flexible sanding pad (made of 2mm and 3mm thick acrylic, cork, 80 grit sanding paper and 3M spray adhesive). It does not take too much effort to get a nice?template done. The flexible?sanding pad works really well to get the smooth curve.
<IMG_4332.JPG>
<IMG_4331.JPG>
James
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 10:09?PM imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Well 4 1/2 times is the charm, I thought I just edit this original post to end this saga.]
It has been on my list to add a disc sander. My current use will be to cleanup band sawn templates. Couple of yrs ago, I tried the oscillating belt sander from HD. After trying 2, I gave up on the combo (spindle/belt) idea and bought the bench top oscillating spindle sander, Jet JOBS-5. I have been very happy with it.
A 25% off no exclusions coupon from HF started this exercise. Bought the following 12¡± disc sander for $150:
12 in., 1-1/4 HP Disc Sander ( )
( )
First one was not usable, casting feature for the table attachment was bad and the AL table was way beyond flat. 2nd unit, casting is good and the table is still unusable. I removed the sanding disc, cleaned the sticky crap off and measured the run off. Half way from center is +/- 0.004¡± and near outside perimeter it is +/- 0.010¡±. You can feel the bumps easily on the outer perimeter. If I keep this I will have to build or fix the table. The disc is cast iron and has milling marks like a record. I may be able to sand the high spot some and reduce the overall runout. T he unit feels solid in operation and runs w/o noticeable vibration. The dust collection port does not match my shop vac but I can probably rig something up. The disc runs at 1750 RPM and is directly mounted to the motor shaft.
Not satisfied, did more research and this PC model available at Lowe¡¯s looked promising for $250:
PORTER-CABLE 4-in x 36-in Belt 5-Amp Benchtop Sander Lowes.com ( )
( )
00558292.jpg ( )
It is a nice little unit. Both tables are AL and flat. The casting feature for the table attachment is much improved but still works like what you would expect on a $250 machine. Interestingly, belt needs tracking adjustment between horizontal and vertical positions but it is not dangerously off and single knob makes adj a breeze. The runout near center, middle and near outer perimeter is 3, 7 & 10 thousands of an inch. The disc however is AL. It has a single port for dust collection and my shop vac fits. Disc runs at 3450 RPM and belt at 2160 RPM.
I like that it has a disc and a belt. I removed the discs and cleaned the plates on both sanders. While cleaning process is okay, I absolutely do not think it is something I would do to change grit. I assume no one does this, unless I am missing some trick. I did look into H&L but appears that enough heat can generated under heavy use to melt the backing pad and some also think it makes the disc too soft (as in having give). Therefore, having 2 sanding options appeal to me as I could place 2 different grits.
Following from Maksiwa also looks promising for $285.
I have written to Maksiwa and asked if they can share the flatness specs of disc and table. They acknowledged receipt but I likely won¡¯t hear back until next week. I am reluctant to buy t his and some others (Grizzly) because they are not locally available. All of these may actually be built by the same company, so chances of getting an acceptable product in this price range is low and I do not want to deal with shipping back. Oh! while this comes with manual brake and cast iron table, the disc is AL.
Since I have not had a machine like this, I not only lack experience to make a good call, I am also not thinking of other possible uses. So I thought, I check with the collective wisdom here. What should I do? I really do not have room for a stationary machine and would like to keep my outlay low. I looked for used but nothing exciting came up in my area.
Appreciate your feedback.
Imran Malik
Feb 6th 2024 Update:
Maksiwa got back to me but the guy could not tell me anything more than what¡¯s published. Credit to Grizzly for actually posting a tol on disc for $650 G0702 and it is 0.21mm. Then I found Shop Fox W1812 that is not in their catalog but it is on their website for $352. Being half the price I asked for its spec and they said it is same. So I decided to order it. Not sure why, I thought I do a last check on net for this model and guess what Grizzly sells it on Amazon so shipping was free ($70 if one orders from Grizzly) and so was the return. So got it thru Amazon.
Well the machine came well packaged but it turned out to be the worst +/- 0.030¡± wobble and table was also about the same with middle high. I wrote to Grizzly and they offered a new disc and table. These arrived today. Table is near perfect and the disc is acceptable, it is +/- 0.0035¡± at 5¡± out but goes to +/- 0.010¡± near the outer edge. Another diff is that all 4 discs that were bad were warped as the high and low areas from near center to outside were close to 180 deg apart. This disc has random variation. So I am keeping it. In case, anyone is interested the disc is AL not cast iron but the thanks is cast iron.
I followed the technique Michael Fortune described in the attached Fine Woodworking article, it does work. Now, I can bandsaw the template (straight or curved) very close to the line.?
I use Ridgid oscillating edge belt/spindle sander (bought years ago at HomeDepot, CAD$200) and DIY flexible sanding pad (made of 2mm and 3mm thick acrylic, cork, 80 grit sanding paper and 3M spray adhesive). It does not take too much effort to get a nice?template done. The flexible?sanding pad works really well to get the smooth curve.
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 10:09?PM imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Well 4 1/2 times is the charm, I thought I just edit this original post to end this saga.]
It has been on my list to add a disc sander. My current use will be to cleanup band sawn templates. Couple of yrs ago, I tried the oscillating belt sander from HD. After trying 2, I gave up on the combo (spindle/belt) idea and bought the bench top oscillating spindle sander, Jet JOBS-5. I have been very happy with it.
A 25% off no exclusions coupon from HF started this exercise. Bought the following 12¡± disc sander for $150:
12 in., 1-1/4 HP Disc Sander ( )
( )
First one was not usable, casting feature for the table attachment was bad and the AL table was way beyond flat. 2nd unit, casting is good and the table is still unusable. I removed the sanding disc, cleaned the sticky crap off and measured the run off. Half way from center is +/- 0.004¡± and near outside perimeter it is +/- 0.010¡±. You can feel the bumps easily on the outer perimeter. If I keep this I will have to build or fix the table. The disc is cast iron and has milling marks like a record. I may be able to sand the high spot some and reduce the overall runout. T he unit feels solid in operation and runs w/o noticeable vibration. The dust collection port does not match my shop vac but I can probably rig something up. The disc runs at 1750 RPM and is directly mounted to the motor shaft.
Not satisfied, did more research and this PC model available at Lowe¡¯s looked promising for $250:
PORTER-CABLE 4-in x 36-in Belt 5-Amp Benchtop Sander Lowes.com ( )
( )
00558292.jpg ( )
It is a nice little unit. Both tables are AL and flat. The casting feature for the table attachment is much improved but still works like what you would expect on a $250 machine. Interestingly, belt needs tracking adjustment between horizontal and vertical positions but it is not dangerously off and single knob makes adj a breeze. The runout near center, middle and near outer perimeter is 3, 7 & 10 thousands of an inch. The disc however is AL. It has a single port for dust collection and my shop vac fits. Disc runs at 3450 RPM and belt at 2160 RPM.
I like that it has a disc and a belt. I removed the discs and cleaned the plates on both sanders. While cleaning process is okay, I absolutely do not think it is something I would do to change grit. I assume no one does this, unless I am missing some trick. I did look into H&L but appears that enough heat can generated under heavy use to melt the backing pad and some also think it makes the disc too soft (as in having give). Therefore, having 2 sanding options appeal to me as I could place 2 different grits.
Following from Maksiwa also looks promising for $285.
I have written to Maksiwa and asked if they can share the flatness specs of disc and table. They acknowledged receipt but I likely won¡¯t hear back until next week. I am reluctant to buy t his and some others (Grizzly) because they are not locally available. All of these may actually be built by the same company, so chances of getting an acceptable product in this price range is low and I do not want to deal with shipping back. Oh! while this comes with manual brake and cast iron table, the disc is AL.
Since I have not had a machine like this, I not only lack experience to make a good call, I am also not thinking of other possible uses. So I thought, I check with the collective wisdom here. What should I do? I really do not have room for a stationary machine and would like to keep my outlay low. I looked for used but nothing exciting came up in my area.
Appreciate your feedback.
Imran Malik
Feb 6th 2024 Update:
Maksiwa got back to me but the guy could not tell me anything more than what¡¯s published. Credit to Grizzly for actually posting a tol on disc for $650 G0702 and it is 0.21mm. Then I found Shop Fox W1812 that is not in their catalog but it is on their website for $352. Being half the price I asked for its spec and they said it is same. So I decided to order it. Not sure why, I thought I do a last check on net for this model and guess what Grizzly sells it on Amazon so shipping was free ($70 if one orders from Grizzly) and so was the return. So got it thru Amazon.
Well the machine came well packaged but it turned out to be the worst +/- 0.030¡± wobble and table was also about the same with middle high. I wrote to Grizzly and they offered a new disc and table. These arrived today. Table is near perfect and the disc is acceptable, it is +/- 0.0035¡± at 5¡± out but goes to +/- 0.010¡± near the outer edge. Another diff is that all 4 discs that were bad were warped as the high and low areas from near center to outside were close to 180 deg apart. This disc has random variation. So I am keeping it. In case, anyone is interested the disc is AL not cast iron but the thanks is cast iron.
I second Joe's opinion. I think a beam clamp is unnecessary unless you're doing a lot of veneer or thin pieces. A piece of MDF on edge or slightly curved caul as Mac mentioned works well.?
The two Mac style clamps work great on plywood. The only time I use a MDF beam is for veneer or if I'm doing a bevel cut. I've found the use of the beam on a bevel cut to hold the piece firmly on the slider surface through the length of travel. Without it, the plywood might rise up in an area giving a wavy edge cut, something that really doesn't happen when the blade is 90 degrees to the table.?
Agreed, the lack of safety glasses on a sliding table saw isn't a big thing.? Now if you're grinding metal, definitely!
However, in the 3rd video of this series, he does a rather dangerous action where he's leaning over the beam clamp and holding down the material as it is being pushed into the blade.? I can just see him tripping and having his hand just "slide" into the saw blade.? The sliding table just rolls so easily! ugh!
On Feb 6, 2024, at 1:10 PM, James Zhu <james.zhu2@...> wrote:
?
Wade,?
This is not the worst I have ever seen.
There are YouTube videos showing people wearing slippers, no safety glasses, no hearing protection, no dust?collection, and hands are just too close to the spinning blades/shape cutters. Those people are incredibly "brave"...
James??
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 4:01?PM Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
Hi Aaron,
I can also see there are no rules about wearing safety glasses in this shop! ???
Wade
On Feb 6, 2024, at 12:50 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
?You can see here that he puts a small piece of wood at the rear of the beam clamp to prevent unequal piston pressure problems:
I have a cnc, but my use case if probably a little different than yours, but I chose the Lamello because of the following:
- I frequently assemble onsite, and need dust collection and versatility.
- Lamello can be used on cabinet assembly, drawer boxes and face frames.? Lock Dowel works for the cabinet box and drawers, but (as far as I know) not face frame assembly.
- Lamello can do both RTA (clamex) and glue/clamp(tenso) - this is especially helpful when assembling difficult to clamp shapes or large assemblies.
- Lock Dowels were a little fiddly on bigger wall and tall cabinets - difficult to line up the pieces.? They work great for smaller cabinets that are easier to reach.
-Lamello can do miters and hardwood assemblies
On Feb 6, 2024, at 3:05 PM, Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
Andy,
I am not adverse to getting a Lamello but I already have the CNC. Would you please expand on why you prefer the Lamello?
I¡¯ve used them once. Bought a Lamello right after. I much prefer the Lamello.?
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:21?PM Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
I¡¯m hoping someone in the group has tried the product LockDowel or knows someone who has. () I am planning on building new kitchen cabinets and considering this product for assembly. My shop is absolutely jammed and I don¡¯t have room for assembled cabinets during the build and finishing stages. One big plus of this system is that I can spray and store everything flat and assemble just prior to installation.
There are YouTube videos showing people wearing slippers, no safety glasses, no hearing protection, no dust?collection, and hands are just too close to the spinning blades/shape cutters. Those people are incredibly "brave"...
Another simple option that allows for knockdown construction with tight joints is the Festool Domino Connectors plus pocket screws for face frames as needed.
Provides a lot of flexibility and really simple although a little pricey.
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 12:21?PM Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
I¡¯m hoping someone in the group has tried the product LockDowel or knows someone who has. () I am planning on building new kitchen cabinets and considering this product for assembly. My shop is absolutely jammed and I don¡¯t have room for assembled cabinets during the build and finishing stages. One big plus of this system is that I can spray and store everything flat and assemble just prior to installation.
I have a cnc, but my use case if probably a little different than yours, but I chose the Lamello because of the following:
- I frequently assemble onsite, and need dust collection and versatility.
- Lamello can be used on cabinet assembly, drawer boxes and face frames.? Lock Dowel works for the cabinet box and drawers, but (as far as I know) not face frame assembly.
- Lamello can do both RTA (clamex) and glue/clamp(tenso) - this is especially helpful when assembling difficult to clamp shapes or large assemblies.
- Lock Dowels were a little fiddly on bigger wall and tall cabinets - difficult to line up the pieces.? They work great for smaller cabinets that are easier to reach.
-Lamello can do miters and hardwood assemblies
On Feb 6, 2024, at 3:05 PM, Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
Andy,
I am not adverse to getting a Lamello but I already have the CNC. Would you please expand on why you prefer the Lamello?
I¡¯ve used them once. Bought a Lamello right after. I much prefer the Lamello.?
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:21?PM Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
I¡¯m hoping someone in the group has tried the product LockDowel or knows someone who has. () I am planning on building new kitchen cabinets and considering this product for assembly. My shop is absolutely jammed and I don¡¯t have room for assembled cabinets during the build and finishing stages. One big plus of this system is that I can spray and store everything flat and assemble just prior to installation.
I have a cnc, but my use case if probably a little different than yours, but I chose the Lamello because of the following:
- I frequently assemble onsite, and need dust collection and versatility.
- Lamello can be used on cabinet assembly, drawer boxes and face frames.? Lock Dowel works for the cabinet box and drawers, but (as far as I know) not face frame assembly.
- Lamello can do both RTA (clamex) and glue/clamp(tenso) - this is especially helpful when assembling difficult to clamp shapes or large assemblies.
- Lock Dowels were a little fiddly on bigger wall and tall cabinets - difficult to line up the pieces.? They work great for smaller cabinets that are easier to reach.
-Lamello can do miters and hardwood assemblies
On Feb 6, 2024, at 3:05 PM, Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
Andy,
I am not adverse to getting a Lamello but I already have the CNC. Would you please expand on why you prefer the Lamello?
I¡¯ve used them once. Bought a Lamello right after. I much prefer the Lamello.?
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:21?PM Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
I¡¯m hoping someone in the group has tried the product LockDowel or knows someone who has. () I am planning on building new kitchen cabinets and considering this product for assembly. My shop is absolutely jammed and I don¡¯t have room for assembled cabinets during the build and finishing stages. One big plus of this system is that I can spray and store everything flat and assemble just prior to installation.
I have a cnc, but my use case if probably a little different than yours, but I chose the Lamello because of the following:
- I frequently assemble onsite, and need dust collection and versatility.
- Lamello can be used on cabinet assembly, drawer boxes and face frames.? Lock Dowel works for the cabinet box and drawers, but (as far as I know) not face frame assembly.
- Lamello can do both RTA (clamex) and glue/clamp(tenso) - this is especially helpful when assembling difficult to clamp shapes or large assemblies.
- Lock Dowels were a little fiddly on bigger wall and tall cabinets - difficult to line up the pieces.? They work great for smaller cabinets that are easier to reach.
-Lamello can do miters and hardwood assemblies
On Feb 6, 2024, at 3:05 PM, Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
Andy,
I am not adverse to getting a Lamello but I already have the CNC. Would you please expand on why you prefer the Lamello?
I¡¯ve used them once. Bought a Lamello right after. I much prefer the Lamello.?
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:21?PM Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
I¡¯m hoping someone in the group has tried the product LockDowel or knows someone who has. () I am planning on building new kitchen cabinets and considering this product for assembly. My shop is absolutely jammed and I don¡¯t have room for assembled cabinets during the build and finishing stages. One big plus of this system is that I can spray and store everything flat and assemble just prior to installation.
If you put a very small board or a cross-cut board under the Ironwood beam clamp, I can see where the rear piston of the beam clamp may want to push down more (since there's no material under that specific piston).? The system might try to torque the beam where the rear of the beam is leaning downwards.?? This may be why they did a split-beam design because most panels will clamp down just fine with the smaller forward beam.? If you have a long 8-9 foot panel, you can also use the longer rear beam.
I'm not sure, but in the video, it looks like the beam clamp might be sized for the bigger 3800 sliding table (149" or 12.4 feet).? I would check with Ironwood directly to make sure of the table length specification.
Patrick, I think you would have to be cutting a lot of veneer or thin panels to justify one of these. At that point you might want to consider a veneer saw. Myself I would not want to be taking something like that on and off. The Mac setup works just fine for what I am doing. For sure if cutting a lot of thin material this would be more convenient
I have a cnc, but my use case if probably a little different than yours, but I chose the Lamello because of the following:
- I frequently assemble onsite, and need dust collection and versatility.
- Lamello can be used on cabinet assembly, drawer boxes and face frames. ?Lock Dowel works for the cabinet box and drawers, but (as far as I know) not face frame assembly.
- Lamello can do both RTA (clamex) and glue/clamp(tenso) - this is especially helpful when assembling difficult to clamp shapes or large assemblies.
- Lock Dowels were a little fiddly on bigger wall and tall cabinets - difficult to line up the pieces. ?They work great for smaller cabinets that are easier to reach.
I¡¯ve used them once. Bought a Lamello right after. I much prefer the Lamello.?
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:21?PM Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
I¡¯m hoping someone in the group has tried the product LockDowel or knows someone who has. () I am planning on building new kitchen cabinets and considering this product for assembly. My shop is absolutely jammed and I don¡¯t have room for assembled cabinets during the build and finishing stages. One big plus of this system is that I can spray and store everything flat and assemble just prior to installation.
I¡¯ve used them once. Bought a Lamello right after. I much prefer the Lamello.?
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 2:21?PM Sawdust77 <rscotthanna@...> wrote:
I¡¯m hoping someone in the group has tried the product LockDowel or knows someone who has. () I am planning on building new kitchen cabinets and considering this product for assembly. My shop is absolutely jammed and I don¡¯t have room for assembled cabinets during the build and finishing stages. One big plus of this system is that I can spray and store everything flat and assemble just prior to installation.