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Re: Felder KF 700, Format 4 Dual and related Tools for Sale
As a last minute correction, it seems "Jay" is unavailable on an out-of-town project.? Please direct inquiries to Linda at 925-899-1327. Apologies for any confusion. ? ? ?Jim ? ??
James H. Fleming
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Re: Interesting Feeder for Smaller Saws and Router Table
Here is a YouTube review...
PK
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Re: Interesting Feeder for Smaller Saws and Router Table
Hi Ronnie,
Weird, works for me but good to have another option ?
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On Jan 28, 2024, at 9:55?AM, Ronnie <picktool@...> wrote: ?Imran... link goes bunk
Ronnie
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Re: Interesting Feeder for Smaller Saws and Router Table
Imran... link goes bunk
Ronnie
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Interesting Feeder for Smaller Saws and Router Table
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
No Worries Alex. Is your machine ~5KW? If so, I see Y-D start which adds more relays; K4 is one of them. There is no K4 in the first schematic I shared which was for a 2KW machine.
Do you have the big book of your machine? The schematics and other important info is in there. Here are couple of shots to show you what is in the book that I have.  
If you do not have the machine book with wiring diagram info as shown above, I suggest you contact Felder and get a copy. They may be able to guide you as well as to the location of the relays.
The pics you shared are not very sharp. Appears there is at least one more relay by the selector switch. Still it would be difficult to guide you because I do not know where these are located and for that matter if my schematic matches your machine in the first place.
Once you have the wiring diagram and you poke around a bit more to try to locate components, I can try to help.
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On Jan 28, 2024, at 4:48?AM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote: ?
Hi Imran,?
Sorry for the late response, just found your message in my junk ! Thanks for the wiring diagram , most useful as I seem to have misplaced mine. Looking on the circuit board, I could only find K1 and K4 and the other connecting block visible from the top
where the capacitors feed into. There is nothing on the circuit board where the K2 and K3 markings are. Do you know if the circuit board is serviceable or do I replace the whole unit ??
Thanks?
Alex
On 23 Jan 2024, at 23:50, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg>
On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote:
?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I¡¯ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I¡¯m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I¡¯m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Typical Felder vintage hair ball. Deserving of a 2¡¯x2¡¯ x 1¡¯ box at a minimum!!!
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jan 28, 2024, at 6:44?AM, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
?
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On 28 Jan 2024, at 09:48, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
? Hi Imran,?
Sorry for the late response, just found your message in my junk ! Thanks for the wiring diagram , most useful as I seem to have misplaced mine. Looking on the circuit board, I could only find K1 and K4 and the other connecting block visible from the top
where the capacitors feed into. There is nothing on the circuit board where the K2 and K3 markings are. Do you know if the circuit board is serviceable or do I replace the whole unit ??
Thanks?
Alex
On 23 Jan 2024, at 23:50, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote:
?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I¡¯ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I¡¯m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I¡¯m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Re: Shaper tooling question
Patrick, it doesn't make you an ass at all! ?Set-up time is a factor in the decision and like I said, everyone values those factors differently. ?If I was in your boat I would probably do the same thing. ?A couple hundred to simplify set-up makes sense if I liked the stock profiles, though if I was to do only 2-3 projects, then that's up to $1000 per project for the tooling, or more if custom heads needed machining and some folks would say the convenience isn't worth 4 digits. ?Those trying to sell you insert tooling would try to convince you it's still the only way to make doors though!
The guys I referred to in my example were in a similar boat and just preferred to work with insert tooling so that's what they bought. Now these guys are doing $100 000+ kitchens in the GTA so eating some tooling cost now and then is no big deal, but interesting they went with a limiter head just a few months later because a designer specd a kitchen with a unique profile that would have required expensive custom tooling work. ?Instead they spent $100 or so on knives, spent an extra 8 minutes on set-up and got the job done with exquisite results and don't have expensive tooling sitting on the shelf they may never use again. ?They have found that a lot of designers have zero interest in door profiles that are popular now, because popular is boring. ?Rich people don't want their expensive custom kitchen to look like every other one on the street. ?However, understandably profiles that are popular today is what tooling manufacturers make for their insert tooling! ? I work with professional shops all over North America and they all insist on having the ability to take advantage of everything insert tooling can offer as well as everything HSS options offer and tool themselves up accordingly. ?
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
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On 28 Jan 2024, at 09:48, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
? Hi Imran,?
Sorry for the late response, just found your message in my junk ! Thanks for the wiring diagram , most useful as I seem to have misplaced mine. Looking on the circuit board, I could only find K1 and K4 and the other connecting block visible from the top
where the capacitors feed into. There is nothing on the circuit board where the K2 and K3 markings are. Do you know if the circuit board is serviceable or do I replace the whole unit ??
Thanks?
Alex
On 23 Jan 2024, at 23:50, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote:
?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I¡¯ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I¡¯m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I¡¯m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
?
?
?
<image1.jpeg>
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 28 Jan 2024, at 09:48, alex moore <alexmoore4@...> wrote:
? Hi Imran,?
Sorry for the late response, just found your message in my junk ! Thanks for the wiring diagram , most useful as I seem to have misplaced mine. Looking on the circuit board, I could only find K1 and K4 and the other connecting block visible from the top
where the capacitors feed into. There is nothing on the circuit board where the K2 and K3 markings are. Do you know if the circuit board is serviceable or do I replace the whole unit ??
Thanks?
Alex
On 23 Jan 2024, at 23:50, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote:
?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I¡¯ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I¡¯m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I¡¯m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Re: Shaper tooling question
Patrick, the devil is in the details with insert tooling. On the surface they all look pretty similar but as you look at fixing systems, gullet design, tool geometry and insert carbide grade that is where the differences show up. In hobby situations they can all be made to work but if you appreciate fine tooling and machines go for it!
I have that tool disease myself!
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Re: Looking for a deep shaper cutter
Bird, yes if you have a basic set of T&G cutters you can make Shaker or Craftsman stile doors pretty easily. If you have any kind of mortising machine or Domino you could reinforce the joinery with loose tenons without getting into complex tooling. Get a good feel for the shaper with the smaller tools.
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Hi Imran,?
Sorry for the late response, just found your message in my junk ! Thanks for the wiring diagram , most useful as I seem to have misplaced mine. Looking on the circuit board, I could only find K1 and K4 and the other connecting block visible from the top
where the capacitors feed into. There is nothing on the circuit board where the K2 and K3 markings are. Do you know if the circuit board is serviceable or do I replace the whole unit ??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 23 Jan 2024, at 23:50, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote:
?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I¡¯ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I¡¯m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I¡¯m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Re: Blade Guard for K3 Winner
Hi
I've made a modificaties for the dusthood and a 3d printable ZCI. Both can be found at?
Hi Jim - I¡¯ve got a K3 slider and I designed a ceiling mounted guard for mine that has integrated dust collection. I wrote an article on making the guard for Canadian Woodworking Magazine that you can find here.?
For the zero clearance insert, you should check out Ramon Valdez. His is by far the best for the saw. You can find him here?and on instagram?
Lastly, I¡¯ll take this as an opportunity to mention my Fritz and Franz jig which keeps your hands well away from the blade to avoid future accidents. You can see more about my jig on instagram here Ramon has an excellent video on my jig here?You can contact me by email (bedrosianwoodworks at gmail dot com) or DM me on instagram if you would like more information on the jig or would like to place an order.?
David
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Re: Shaper tooling question
Being able to buy half priced tooling of course changes the cost equations entirely! If I liked the stock profiles I would have done the same thing. Those euroblocks are baby limiter heads, 7 and 8" diameter limiter heads are readily available. ?
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Re: Blade Guard for K3 Winner
Hi Jim - I¡¯ve got a K3 slider and I designed a ceiling mounted guard for mine that has integrated dust collection. I wrote an article on making the guard for Canadian Woodworking Magazine that you can find here.?
For the zero clearance insert, you should check out Ramon Valdez. His is by far the best for the saw. You can find him here?and on instagram?
Lastly, I¡¯ll take this as an opportunity to mention my Fritz and Franz jig which keeps your hands well away from the blade to avoid future accidents. You can see more about my jig on instagram here Ramon has an excellent video on my jig here?You can contact me by email (bedrosianwoodworks at gmail dot com) or DM me on instagram if you would like more information on the jig or would like to place an order.?
David
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Re: Shaper tooling question
I ended up selling the misenheimer heads and bought a used rangate set and panel raiser for half off retail. I haven¡¯t used them yet, but I agree with people¡¯s first impressions. Also, the panel raiser is incredibly stout. It has to be 10+ pounds. I had a 7-8¡± diameter unique/Great Lakes tools panel raiser that I thought was substantial and this one is significantly heavier. I am interested in playing around with the set and seeing what results they produce.?
Brent, that is a good point with hss knives and euroblock heads. For fear of sounding like an ass, the setup ease and speed of insert heads is worth the extra couple hundred. I¡¯m not sure how impactful it is in the scheme of things, but the insert heads are much larger diameter than the euroblock I have/have seen.?
Patrick
On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 6:57?AM Brian Greene < Brian@...> wrote: Hi Patrick,
I'm mostly a hobbyist and bought my first shaper a few years ago in anticipation of doing a couple of kitchens at my house as well as some other panel-based furniture.? Felder sliding 4hp in a saw/shaper combo.?
I "went for it" and bought Rangate tooling - a couple of groovers, a multi-use insert thingy that's been super useful, and the beveled shaker set (which is 2 parts of the 3 piece set and an alternative for the 3rd piece).? This is worth noting - their normal 3-piece set allows switching from rail to stile without touching the cutter stack, and using the beveled shaker option means you have to change one cutter on the stack between operations.? Not a big deal, just worth noting.
I have little to compare it to, and I'm aware it's "top of the line"... all I can say is that it?sure seems like it.? Every time I pull the stack out, I get a little excited at how lovely it is.? I took the "ears" off it as I don't need that back-cut, and that makes it... only slightly less terrifying when it spins up.? It creates a little wind tunnel between the feeder and back-fence, and is quite intimidating.? The results are very nice.? I've made a few sets of doors and panels and I think the cutters are still sharp enough to shave with.? You have to wear the cut-proof gloves they include with it or you will hurt yourself handling them.??
It's also worth noting that their pricing on the website is not really what you'll pay - around multiple shows as well as randomly they'll extend discounts, particularly if you're buying multiple pieces at once.? Later this year I hope to order another groover and a panel-raising cutter - I'll likely buy Rangate or Amana (I like their cnc tooling so I'm willing to try their shaper tools).
Is it worth it for a hobby?? Who knows.? I don't have a lot of time in my shop, it's not my job, and my life is quite busy.? So when I get to make stuff, I want the best tooling experience I can afford/imagine, and I think with shapers this has a lot to do with tooling quality.
Brian
On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 11:15?AM Patrick Kane < pwk5017@...> wrote: Im going to hijack this thread slightly instead of starting my own. For those with experience with the Rangate/Garniga cabinet cutter versus other insert cutterheads, is it worth it to step into the Rangate set? Right now, i have 3-4 different profiles from Misenheimer that i got at auction several years ago. Steel body insert heads that seem to be pretty nice quality. 9 bodies in total. Ive used them on smaller built in projects at my home, and they did the job fine. However, this thread brought back up the Rangate cutter, and it got me thinking that i could unload my misenheimer heads and trade up to more flexibility with the Rangate. It doesnt look like they offer a ton of profiles, but im sure?i might find more options if i searched. If the trade were break even or a couple hundred bucks, would you upgrade to the rangate head? Keep in mind, im a hobbyist that maybe has a dozen cabinet/vanity projects in my future the next 5-7 years. It is not like im churning out cabinet doors. That is partly why im drawn to the Rangate set, because it offers more flexibility in profiles. With my misenheimer heads, they are dedicated profiles. I appreciate the feedback.
Patrick
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:03?PM Jim Dayton < jd74914@...> wrote: Mariusz,
Thank you! Pretty cool they are so close to your home. Quite a ways away from you, but about a decade ago now I spent a considerable of time in the Gda¨½sk/Gdynia area and did some touring of the country on the weekends I had off. Really enjoyed it and I still think very fondly on those days.?
I can send them an email, I am guessing they do since they have any automatic English web translation.?
Certainly understand the difference in style. Usually my runs are really small and not time sensitive so cost is the biggest factor unfortunately.?
Jim On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 10:54?AM mariusz_m < mariusz_m@...> wrote: Jim, sure, here it is (actually they are practically in my home town:
I do not know if they take international orders, I can find out if you want.
As I said before, their saw blades are really good and less expensive than FELDER, plus they will make custom profile cutter blades for multipurpose cutter heads.
However when I¡¯m talking about price difference between Rangate / Whitehill and Bryk, please keep in mind I¡¯m not comparing apples to apples. Rangate / Whitehill make user replaceable cutter knives for their tooling, Bryk¡¯s cutter heads will have permanently welded HSS or HM knives, so if one chips, you might be out of luck- I have them in my backyard, so they can fix it on the spot.?
Mariusz
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Felder KF 700, Format 4 Dual and related Tools for Sale
I have been asked to post the attached sale ads for some Felder tools which are located in Walnut Creek, CA.? I have included a couple snaps of machine plates etc.
I have seen all of the items.? They appear to be in new or near new condition, although they are ten or more years old.? Some appear never to have been run - they do not have plugs.? The Rong Fu has never been unwrapped.? The bandsaw has visible rust on the table, but I did not see visible deterioration on the other items.? There are loads of accessories, many in the original cartons.? There were also a large Oneida Cyclone and a OneWay lathe which may still be available.?
I have no opinion on the about the pricing and I do not know how it was arrived at.? I do know the woodworker owner passed away suddenly and unexpectedly, which may explain why the tools have never been used.? Frankly, the whole thing is a bit boggling to me and probably to the non-woodworker survivors.
Please contact the person named in the ads for further information as I have none.
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Re: Looking for a deep shaper cutter
Mac, this is the the kind of scenario I am more at home with! Not the tropics but the glue and screw methods. ?My (mis)adventure with a shaper is a whole new world.?I suppose you don¡¯t have to worry overly much about insulating that door.
Joe, thanks for your input. After a long sit looking at cutters from different manufacturers, I came to the same conclusion. I have since rethought my interest in the bridle joint which seems like a dose of try-too-hard, and I¡¯m going to just make the panels with tongue and groove cutter which ought to get me some good experience with the shaper. After that, maybe I¡¯ll explore a more ambitious joint on the next one.?
I¡¯m looking carefully through these emails and appreciate the time and care you all put into them.
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On Jan 27, 2024, at 2:28 PM, mac campshure via < mac512002@...> wrote:
Gorilla woodwork!!! All this talk about shapers brings me to the thought , a few weeks ago I traveled to Hawaii after visiting daughter and grand kids in Portland. I¡¯m a bad tourist and prefer to help family out with projects to maintain my sanity!? My sweet hears sister and her husband live 2500¡¯ above sea level in a vey remote Mountain, side in captain cook , Kona. A amusement park park ride just to get there. They were in desperate need of a door . So Davy had milled some Sugi a few months before so had material .? Tools 1, Ryobi cheep table saw , 1 worn out dewalt lunch box planer. One craftsman pull saw . One honda generator. Picked up dowels one cheep general dowel jig 5/16 6¡± spec screws At HD. They have lived there for over 40 years. They had a salvaged sash that I cleaned up a bit . Door construction.? The opening was very old Sugi 5x5 out of wack major. I milled up a frame that I attached to the timbers out of 2.5x2.5 ?to provide a sq opening .gutted out the sill and built a new one with threshold. Door built around 24x24 sash. 4.5 stiles 24¡± rails. 1/8¡±x3/4 aluminum bar groves into rails stiles to hold panels one side vertical 3/4¡± with rebate other side 5/8¡± horizontal, screwed together from inside with finished spex screws. Rails have 3/4¡± vertical dowels through widths of rails with hardwood dowel .? Rails have 1/2¡± dowels in ends and sides for reference .Stiles have 5/8¡± holes in sides that were plugged with Sugi? The 6¡± x 5/16¡± specx screws than screwed into rails and through the hardwood dowels . All glued with gorilla glue.? Door ?is 1/4¡± thick I couldn¡¯t lift myself ,? Last two days it was monsoons. All fit up great and I am very pleased at how it turned out .?
<IMG_0334.jpeg><IMG_3007.jpeg><IMG_3002.jpeg><IMG_2991.jpeg><IMG_0318.jpeg> Mac,,
Designing and building for 50 years ?As always, Mr. Best gives good advice and I've used similar techniques to establish square on other machines too. ?The fence on the slider needs to be exactly square to the line of travel in order to get shoulders square to the work piece. ?If you are using a bump stop, or another form of stop, then the component being machined needs to be prepared properly but I still always try to make sure I use the same portion of every component up against the stop. ?Some folks will tenon one end and then use the shoulder from the first one against a stop to make sure the shoulder to shoulder lengths are always identical, just depends on what you're after and how you want to work. ?
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Re: Blade Guard for K3 Winner
I have the Harvey shark S-12S guard and a Ramon Valdez zero insert.? Both work great?
After a scary-close call, I am looking for suggestions for a better-than-the-factory blade guard and dust pickup for my K3 slider.? The factory-designed blade guard hangs off the top of the riving?knife.? The top of the riving knife is above the blade.? This creates an unguarded triangle at the rear of the blade, at least at high blade settings, and permits dust leakage.? See attached photo.? The factory guard dust port is very small and not very effective.? I am also looking to replace my shop-made ZCI which had a short lifespan.? Suggestions appreciated.
--
Joe Slater
michigan
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Jim Fleming
PK
imran
joe slater