¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 Groups.io
Date

Re: Finding a used saw?

David Sabo
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

trboat/ to answer you¡¯re real question¡­¡­¡­¡­¡­..

No , I don¡¯t think out of hand one can say there is a clear leader in combo machines. ?Both makers have fine offerings with strengths and weaknesses.?

I believe TERSA is still available on both makes too. ?So is a spiral cutter head with carbide segments. ?I cannot say which would be better for teak processing - but I suspect the Tersa wins the more frequently you change cutters.?

D

Sent from?iPhone

On May 15, 2023, at 7:19 AM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

?
All good! But thanks.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Trboat <trboatworks@...>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 9:08:51 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Finding a used saw?
?
Ah- sorry.
I will rein in my tendency to edit so as to provide as much accuracy as possible.
Once and done I promise.


Re: Finding a used saw?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

All good! But thanks.?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Trboat <trboatworks@...>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 9:08:51 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Finding a used saw?
?
Ah- sorry.
I will rein in my tendency to edit so as to provide as much accuracy as possible.
Once and done I promise.


Re: Finding a used saw?

 

Ah- sorry.
I will rein in my tendency to edit so as to provide as much accuracy as possible.
Once and done I promise.


Re: Finding a used saw?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi trboat (sorry I missed your name):

Every time you edit your post, I get another email into my inbox. An edit or two seems ok, but I¡¯m getting a lot of emails from you! ?

Warm regards,
Lucky

Dr David Luckensmeyer


From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Trboat <trboatworks@...>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2023 8:45:52 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Finding a used saw?
?

[Edited Message Follows]

To simplify my search can we say out of hand that there is a leader in the combination machine offerings between Felder and SCM?

Looking at my shop I believe I would at minimum choose a saw/molder.
I have a 12¡± MiniMax J/P and would consider the five functions machines and sell the J/P.

This leaves me with looking at the KF and CF 500 or 700 machines as well as the equivalent machines from SCM group starting with the CU series.

The J/P I have is the modest ¡®Smart¡¯ 30 and honestly it has been a reliable workhorse for the ten years or so I¡¯ve had it in the shop.
If replacing I would like more width.

I Mill mostly teak so I like the Tersa head for its simple option of carbide blades.

Lets say I am going to buy used.
That leaves me really quite free to select as all of these machines are affordable but complicated sometimes by the evolution of features over time.
Felder redesigned the core blade system in the 700 series in 2007?

I guess I am looking at the CF741 vs CU410E as being the machines I would choose between as it stands.


Re: Finding a used saw?

 
Edited

To simplify my search can we say out of hand that there is a leader in the combination machine offerings between Felder and SCM?

Looking at my shop I believe I would at minimum choose a saw/molder.
I have a 12¡± MiniMax J/P and would consider the five functions machines and sell the J/P.

This leaves me with looking at the KF and CF 500 or 700 machines as well as the equivalent machines from SCM group starting with the CU series.

The J/P I have is the modest ¡®Smart¡¯ 30 and honestly it has been a reliable workhorse for the ten years or so I¡¯ve had it in the shop.
If replacing I would like more width.

I Mill mostly teak so I like the Tersa head for its simple option of carbide blades.

Lets say I am going to buy used.
That leaves me really quite free to select as all of these machines are affordable but complicated sometimes by the evolution of features over time.
Felder redesigned the core blade system in the 700 series in 2007?

I guess I am looking at the CF741P vs CU410C or CU410E as being the machines I would choose between as it stands.


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

I have a tilting spindle moulder, a SCM TI145EP, I use the tilting feature, maybe 5% of the time??


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

David and Scott,

I am not sure that the infeed roller is replaceable on my FS7.? The segmented infeed rollers I have will leave a mark if you take a very small pass on softer woods, but I would not say it is .5mm.

I planed a 19" wide table top for a friend this week that was cedar with epoxy in the center.? I took a few passes at 1mm but several at less than .5mm and we did not see any marks.?

The outfeed roller is easily replaceable, though I am not sure if I would except for long term maintenance.? I am an open book.? If anyone wants to see an FS7, feel free to come on by any time, I am in Southern California? I am not sure if there are any others in North America at this point.

PK


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

One more benefit is that the dust extraction port stays on the right and you do not have to lower the planer table to do the changeover.?

PK, so when you are using the planer set at around 3/4 inch, and then you want to lower the jointer tables to use the jointer, you do not have to lower the planer table at all? ?With the Griggio-Martin, even though the dust extraction port stays on the right, you would have to lower the planer table to over 5 inches in order to do a changeover to jointer.


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Thanks for chiming in here Scott. ?I agree with you that the Martin T45 and T54 are clearly the best available jointer planer pair - if you have the floor space and the budget. ?The pair will certainly net out to $60K or more. ?In contrast the SCMI FS7 J/P is about half that in cost. ?No question that in my shop I do not have room for separates, and I assume the same is true of a lot of other users on here, even given the compact nesting arrangement that¡¯s possible with the Martin pair. ?So if I were looking to buy a 20¡± combination J/P machine today, the FS7 would be a delightful upgrade from my Dual 51. ?

But since I don¡¯t own and FS7, I can¡¯t comment about the feed rollers except to say that if you have a rubber outfeed roller (or two) and the infeed roller is properly adjusted, minor indentations coming off the infeed roller should be taken off by the cutterhead. ?The FS7 comes standard with a?helicoidal grooved steel infeed roller, but can be optioned to have a sectioned steel roller. ?I know Paul got the sectioned roller option on his machine, so maybe he can comment. ?

What I can comment on is that a rubber infeed roller will see plenty of degradation and chewed-away rubber in use - largely due to the sharp front edge of the material entering the roller and abrading the rubber. ?I consider a rubber infeed roller to be a consumable item. ?Shown below are the two feed rollers out of my Dual 51 the last time I had them removed for recovering. ?You can see that the infeed feed roller gets a lot more wear and tear (it¡¯s the one on the top in the photo):

25128742297_4063edd1b9_c.jpeg


David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best





On May 14, 2023, at 7:17 PM, bespoken via groups.io <bespoken@...> wrote:

As many may know I am the Martin dealer for Southern CA. I had sold the Griggio machine to a couple of customers, and they were very happy with it. The machine was a 100% Griggio that was painted in Martin colors and imported by Martin USA. It was a popular machine, as many of the combination jointer planer machines had many disadvantages. This machine was heavy and well made. Martin decided to start making it in Germany and has been selling that in Europe. Since Martin has to abide by the UL listing rules, we would have to certify the electrical components to UL standards. This is important for liability reasons, and some other machinery manufactures do not do this for their machines that are sold here.

I was made aware that the SCMI machine is a virtual copy of the Griggio machine. Martin did add on the Aigner fence and an option for the SUVAmatic guard - both excellent additions to the machine. We are also making the cutterhead in house.

For Martin, we sell far more of the T45 and T54 machines over the combination machine. This is what Martin does best in the market, and is what most customers want. One customer who bought the combo machine since sold it and bought the T45 and T54 machines. He liked the machine, but separates are always going to be much faster and the machines are Martin quality.?

One issue that I did find with the combo was that you had to take off at least .5 mm of stock in order to remove the marks from the in feed roller. Having a rubber in feed roller would be ideal and this is what we use on the T45. You can run a piece through twice without changing the height and it will not mark it. ?I am not sure that the in feed roller on the SCMI can be changed out to rubber. But this may be an issue (David?).


Re: Felder 951 vs Minimax FS52ES #jointerplaner

 

Larry,

I ordered through Wurth.? They have the local business.

PK


Re: Finding a used saw?

 
Edited

Hi there. There¡¯s someone on this forum (check the posts under the #forsale tag) selling Felder saw-shaper and J/P machines. The seller is in CT. He has also cross-listed on Felder¡¯s used machines marketplace.


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

As many may know I am the Martin dealer for Southern CA. I had sold the Griggio machine to a couple of customers, and they were very happy with it. The machine was a 100% Griggio that was painted in Martin colors and imported by Martin USA. It was a popular machine, as many of the combination jointer planer machines had many disadvantages. This machine was heavy and well made. Martin decided to start making it in Germany and has been selling that in Europe. Since Martin has to abide by the UL listing rules, we would have to certify the electrical components to UL standards. This is important for liability reasons, and some other machinery manufactures do not do this for their machines that are sold here.

I was made aware that the SCMI machine is a virtual copy of the Griggio machine. Martin did add on the Aigner fence and an option for the SUVAmatic guard - both excellent additions to the machine. We are also making the cutterhead in house.

For Martin, we sell far more of the T45 and T54 machines over the combination machine. This is what Martin does best in the market, and is what most customers want. One customer who bought the combo machine since sold it and bought the T45 and T54 machines. He liked the machine, but separates are always going to be much faster and the machines are Martin quality.?

One issue that I did find with the combo was that you had to take off at least .5 mm of stock in order to remove the marks from the in feed roller. Having a rubber in feed roller would be ideal and this is what we use on the T45. You can run a piece through twice without changing the height and it will not mark it. ?I am not sure that the in feed roller on the SCMI can be changed out to rubber. But this may be an issue (David?).


Re: Felder 951 vs Minimax FS52ES #jointerplaner

 
Edited

sure, just email me on timbershelf@...

or face book search Albert Lee in Auckland


Re: Felder 951 vs Minimax FS52ES #jointerplaner

 

Out of curiosity, do you guys order your stuff directly from SCMI (presumably through a sales rep like with Felder USA), or from one of the many retail distribution websites I've seen their stuff listed on? Pros/Cons of each approach?
--

Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

Thanks, Lucky.
Dave Davies

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 7:59?PM David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

Hi Dave:

?

I use the tilting feature all the time.

?

  • chamfers, usually at 45 degrees
  • bevels, sometimes 7 degrees, or 12 degrees, or whatever is required
  • panel raiser, I like to adjust the look
  • sliding dovetails ¨C usually 7 degrees as that is what I carry in terms of router bit angles

?

When I say ¡°all the time¡±, of course I use my shaper more ¡°straight¡± than tilted. But I¡¯d use it tilted say 30% of the time (at a guess). I would dearly miss not having that feature. And quite frankly, if mine tilted both ways (I have the Profil 45Z x-motion which only tilts one way), I¡¯d use it both ways.

?

Cheers.

?

Warm regards,

Lucky

?

Dr David Luckensmeyer

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...>
Date: Monday, 15 May 2023 at 10:14
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

Anybody have an opinion on how the Ti 7 compares with Martin's T27?? When I was in Los Angeles last Christmas I went to SCM's showroom to look at the?L'invincibile ti 7 they had in their showroom to see how it compared to Martin's?T27.? Unfortunately, the only person in the office was their warehouse guy who knew nothing about the shaper.? We tried a Zoom meeting but it wasn't very?effective.

?

For those that have tilting spindles...do you actually use that feature?

?

Thanks

Dave Davies

?

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 4:29?PM David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI ?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?

As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.? This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?

So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...





?

--

Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868



--
Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi Dave:

?

I use the tilting feature all the time.

?

  • chamfers, usually at 45 degrees
  • bevels, sometimes 7 degrees, or 12 degrees, or whatever is required
  • panel raiser, I like to adjust the look
  • sliding dovetails ¨C usually 7 degrees as that is what I carry in terms of router bit angles

?

When I say ¡°all the time¡±, of course I use my shaper more ¡°straight¡± than tilted. But I¡¯d use it tilted say 30% of the time (at a guess). I would dearly miss not having that feature. And quite frankly, if mine tilted both ways (I have the Profil 45Z x-motion which only tilts one way), I¡¯d use it both ways.

?

Cheers.

?

Warm regards,

Lucky

?

Dr David Luckensmeyer

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of David Davies <myfinishingtouch@...>
Date: Monday, 15 May 2023 at 10:14
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

Anybody have an opinion on how the Ti 7 compares with Martin's T27?? When I was in Los Angeles last Christmas I went to SCM's showroom to look at the?L'invincibile ti 7 they had in their showroom to see how it compared to Martin's?T27.? Unfortunately, the only person in the office was their warehouse guy who knew nothing about the shaper.? We tried a Zoom meeting but it wasn't very?effective.

?

For those that have tilting spindles...do you actually use that feature?

?

Thanks

Dave Davies

?

On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 4:29?PM David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:

I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI ?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?

As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.? This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?

So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...





?

--

Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

Anybody have an opinion on how the Ti 7 compares with Martin's T27?? When I was in Los Angeles last Christmas I went to SCM's showroom to look at the?L'invincibile ti 7 they had in their showroom to see how it compared to Martin's?T27.? Unfortunately, the only person in the office was their warehouse guy who knew nothing about the shaper.? We tried a Zoom meeting but it wasn't very?effective.

For those that have tilting spindles...do you actually use that feature?

Thanks
Dave Davies


On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 4:29?PM David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI ?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?

As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.? This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?

So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...





--
Dave & Marie Davies

318-219-7868


Re: Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

David,

Attached is my build sheet with 2022 list pricing as I optioned it.

In the US it is a 15hp motor with star-delta soft start.? I really am impressed by it, and as David said, it seemed like Martin was only going to option it with a "Power-Drive" clone which is what I had on the AD-941.? I really wanted a way to program certain thicknesses and to dial in a specific measurement.

One more benefit is that the dust extraction port stays on the right and you do not have to lower the planer table to do the changeover.?



PK


Update on Martin T32 Jointer/Planer

 

I was curious if Martin's new 20" Jointer/Planer combo machine would be available for examination at the upcoming AWFS show in Vegas this coming July.? I reached out to one of my insider contacts and discovered something interesting.? Apparently, Martin was planning to bring the T32 tp the USA and get it UL approved, but is now not so certain that this is a good strategy.? It seems the designer of the T32 left Martin sometime back and was the designer of the SCMI ?L-invincibile FS7 (same machine Paul Kelly just got and posted about earlier).?

As it turns out, the SCMI Jointer/Planer is almost identical to the T32, and has advantages over the Martin machine (optional rubber outfeed rollers, digital readout standard, automatic table lift, quick change rollers etc.), and sells for a lot less money.? This is mostly due to SCMI's super logistics and a larger distribution network.?

So although it's not totally settled, it does appear that Martin woke up to competitive landscape will probably not be bringing the T32 into the USA market, and even if they did, the SCMI alternative is a better value with more standard equipment and rubber outfeed rollers.? The attached materials document the FS7 standard/optional equipment, and I've included the full line brochure for their L-invincibile lineup.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best


Re: Felder 951 vs Minimax FS52ES #jointerplaner

 
Edited

Christopher,

They do have a mobility kit!

The bottom front cover is attached via bolts that allows you to slide it off and access the space under it for a forklift or a pallet jack.? Depending on the pallet jack, you may need to put some blocks of wood under the three feet to allow you to slide a pallet jack under it.? Albert's has the same cover at the bottom.

PK