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I had a 951 for 3 years, no issues during my ownership I sold it because I need something wider and the workflow dictated that I need to go separate,?? I didnt like 951's fence and I didnt like its front cover being plastic..? went with SCM's S7 and a temporary jointer to keep me going. probably will endup with a SCM jointer in the near future.?  
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Christopher, I ordered a SCM L'invincible FS 7 jointer/planer combo. I replaced my AD-941 with it.? I had zero issues with the AD-941, I really liked it.? I just had a realization that I really wanted a 520mm machine.? I looked at the Dual 51 and ultimately went with the L'invincible. It is SCM's flagship line.? It came when they said it would, it came in a full crate (2400 pounds) and had zero issues out of the crate and needed no adjustments. It is a lot like the FS52ES - nicer castings, a bit beefier, slightly longer beds, 15hp, SCM's version of Digi-Drive, air lift for the tables, there may be some other things... I am really happy with the machine so far.   PK
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Used offerings show up here often. I would suggest you post more details about exactly what you want and where you are located. Price depends on many factors, others here can provide constructive input on value.
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On May 13, 2023, at 18:57, trboatworks@... wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Hello all. I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years. Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer. I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings. I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function. Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 or the CF531 in 2500 wagon. So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US? I have a bit of time to look about but not years. What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty? Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new? Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have. Thanks all
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Mark Foster
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There is a K3, K940 and a KF 700 on Felder used machine site. These are private sales by individuals. I try to post used machines wherever I find them on my facebook group - link below.
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On May 13, 2023, at 7:51 PM, trboatworks@... wrote:
?Hello all.
I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years.
Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer.
I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings.
I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function.
Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 ?up to say the CF531 in 2500 wagon.
So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US?
I have a bit of time to look about but not years.
What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty?
Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new?
Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have.
Thanks all
I once had a Unisaw. ?To me, what makes a slider the safest saw is having Mac Clamps along with finding ways to cut wood without hand feeding boards using the rip fence. ?You may want to consider the clamps as part of your budget. ?Just my 0.02.
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Used Felder equipment comes up pretty regularly, but finding a full combination machine like the CF-700 is pretty rare. ?Thinking back, I think I seen one listed about once per year - if even that frequently. ?You could be in for a long wait, with the machine being sold on the opposite side of the country, complicating delivery/transport, etc.
I have a strongly held view that if you want something as mechanically robust as a SawStop, you should focus on the 700-series machines. ?The 500-series machines are essentially Hammer platforms with an X-Roll slider, and while lots of people achieve great results with them, the guts of the machine doesn’t really compare to the massive double trunion saw assembly on the 700-series.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On May 13, 2023, at 3:02 PM, trboatworks@... wrote:
Hello all.
I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years.
Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer.
I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings.
I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function.
Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 ?up to say the CF531 in 2500 wagon.
So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US?
I have a bit of time to look about but not years.
What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty?
Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new?
Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have.
Thanks all
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Hello all.
I own a small professional shop and have been using an ancient Unisaw for years.
Well I made a small error and took a very bad cut so now I am about to replace the saw with something safer.
I am passing on the SawStop and have settled on finding one of the Felder offerings.
I slider would be safer and provide needed increased function.
Something in the lineup - from hammer, a 500 or 700 or the CF531 in 2500 wagon.
So question- how tough is it to find a used Saw in the US?
I have a bit of time to look about but not years.
What is the experience here- one can find machines without too much difficulty?
Will I be forced to go hat in hand to Felder and buy new?
Room is tight in the shop so perhaps the CF531would be ideal and I would sell off the MiniMax P/J I have.
Thanks all
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Re: A3-31 calibration frequency
Richard, my A3-31 has not required recalibration in the 10 years of ownership. It gets used 2-3 days each week. Notably, compared with your use, mine does not move from its spot in the workshop …. well, perhaps 6” back-and-forth. I assume your moving it around may upset its sensitivities.?
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Re: A3-31 calibration frequency
I was adjusting monthly on mine using heavier stock but i know other people who don’t have that experience.
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?I have had a hammer a3-31 I was adjusting monthly and after anything over 4/4 full length stock was jointed. I know that’s not the felder machine in question, but I have had an fs52es for a month now. It’s very stoutly built with adjustment bolts flat not round headed so there is none of the denting I had from adjusters on the hammer. And adjusting our 8 thou of snipe from factory on jointing took about 5-10 minutes using the parallel adjuster. Before I knew what exact bolts to remove I was trying to adjust it using the lever with full force with the adjusters still locked at end of table and it was deflecting 2 thou and bouncing right back. It’s solid.
I have a 10hp model with Tersa heads and mobility kit and double wall ( I believe it was an option) and I’d do it again.
Packaging and communication from operation teams was clear and professional. They sent photos of the crate from all sides so we could compare on delivery day. They kept their word in spirit and contract the entire time before during and after the sales process. It seems there are no bad apples working there, in my experience.
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Re: Newbie with questions
I bought a used CF731 (2001 model)? well over 10 years ago and never looked back.
Yes, it takes some getting used to when coming from a std cabinet saw and separate planer and jointer setups, but overall quality and space saving are quite impressive. There is a need for increased planing of the steps required to complete a project as you generally want to limit the times to switch machine functions.
it is true that some of the setup changes (saw <-> shaper? or? jointer <-> planer) are a bit time consuming and any (complex) setup is lost. But also consider when buying/owning separate saw/shaper and jointer/planer machines, in essence the same change over problem exists.
With a 4 (or 5-) function machine in many situations the saw and jointer can be used with out much interference (sheet goods and large cross cuts excluded), if in planer mode the table saw is still usable for ripping (with some limitations). I think the biggest drawback is the shaper, when setup it prevents (or greatly limits) the use of most other functions. Shaper setup is tedious to start with, and replicating setups is even more tedious. Only way around this one is a standalone shaper.
I am a hobbyist so time is less critical, while floor space and cost are more critical. I do not think that a 4 (or 5-) function combo machine is a good fit for (most) commercial setups.
Klaus
Owner of CF731
-- Klaus
Owner of CF731
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The table elevation systems on the Minimax FS41ES / FS52ES is a reliable field-proven parallelogram system. ?The AD-951 uses a “value engineered” eccentric cam mechanism that has proven to be more troublesome. ?I’m not recommending the Minimax over the AD-951, but I can attest to the issues with the Felder system on the Dual 51, and the AD-951 is essentially the same machine with a different fence. ?I routinely recommend prospective buyers to evaluate the SCMI or new Martin J/P machines as a potential alternative. ?If anyone wants the reasoning behind this, DM me.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On May 12, 2023, at 7:40 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
It's extremely hard to tell in the pictures, but the Minimax FS41ES / FS52ES --might-- have a longer distance between the alignment bolts/pegs when compared to the Felder AD951 (see pic below).? This might allow a slightly easier setup/alignment on the machine and to keep the alignment over time.? However, without anyone doing an actual measurement, it's impossible to tell.
<FS41ES_bolts.JPG>
This is just one aspect of the machine and there are many other differences.
-Aaron
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Chris: I’ve had the AD951 for 3 years… with heavy use; probably receives?the most use within my shop (K700S, Hammer N4400, and the AD951). All hardwoods; I’m still on the original sides of the insert cutters.
Operationally, it is easy to use, powerful and precise. My only complaint is a slight mis-alignment of one out feed edges?at the cutter head… it is possible that my shop is the problem - there are significant fluctuations in?the?shop environment (temps and humidity).
Most of my work starts with rough-sawn, live-edge, 12”+ wide?planks that require 4- side surfacing; so, I ask a lot of the machine. I added outfeed tables to?the planer,?and have the power drive and silent cutter options.
I have no experience with the Minimax line, and I read consistently good reviews of their?equipment.
Mike D.
On Friday, May 12, 2023, 21:55, Christopherchen87@... wrote: Has anybody had experience with either of these machines? Any thoughts as to choose one over the other?
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Mike D.
Annapolis, MD
AD951; K700S; N4400
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It's extremely hard to tell in the pictures, but the Minimax FS41ES / FS52ES --might-- have a longer distance between the alignment bolts/pegs when compared to the Felder AD951 (see pic below).? This might allow a slightly easier setup/alignment on the machine and to keep the alignment over time.? However, without anyone doing an actual measurement, it's impossible to tell.  This is just one aspect of the machine and there are many other differences. -Aaron
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I have the FS41ES. Amazing, perfect out of the box! ?Couldn’t be happier. ?
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On May 13, 2023, at 10:55 AM, Christopherchen87@... wrote:
?Has anybody had experience with either of these machines? Any thoughts as to choose one over the other?
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Has anybody had experience with either of these machines? Any thoughts as to choose one over the other?
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Re: Kappa 40 X-motion pricing input
Fred, if this were a Kappa 400 instead of a Kappa 40, I would have a different opinion. ?My guess is it’s worth $12-14K, but I would recommend you contact Tom Morris - he sold a similar Kappa 40 a couple years ago when he upgraded to Martin T70. ?You can email Tom at?tmorris13@...
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On May 12, 2023, at 11:53 AM, fred burgess via groups.io <fredbhelp@...> wrote:
Respectfully request any guidance on pricing for a Kappa 40 X-Motion late 2011—Hobby use
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- 3 phase 230 volt +/- 10% --5.5 kw
- scoring —raises and lowers electrically with automatic height adjustment
- Overhead guard with comfort adjustment
- 3200 mm sliding table
- electrical on switches for main blade and scoring at end of sliding table
- Outrigger table with 3200 mm cross cut fence —table size 1150 x 640 with digital stops
- Miter index scale with length compensation
- Flange set for dados
- Parallel fence
- auxiliary fence
?
Thanks
?
Fred Burgess
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Re: Pricing for used Felder tools
Jim
I think the Dual 51 is is worth $8-10K, but final value would vary depending on cutterhead and condition and options. ?If I were buying (which I’m not) I’d want to know if it has the SilentPower or Terra or Felder knife cutterhead, whether it has Power-Drive or Digi-Drive on the planer table elevation, if it has variable feed speed on the planer, what size motor, and if it has rubber feed rollers. ?Here is the price list for the Dual 51 circa 2005:
The KF700 is probably worth more like $5K.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On May 12, 2023, at 10:40 AM, Jim Fleming <jameshfleming@...> wrote:
Diablo Woodworkers (East Bay SF) is assisting the spouse of a deceased woodworker in disposing of a shop full of quality tools, many new in box, others older but very lightly used if at all.? I would like any suggestions for pricing.???Here is the Felder section of the list.? Some prices have been suggested by others as shown, but I am not sure of the basis.? Further information and/or photos may be available.? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
| 1 |
Felder |
Power Feed Support Arm |
? |
Probably Felder based on the green color |
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? |
UP |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
| ? |
? |
Power Feed Arm |
? |
probably Felder based on the green color |
? |
? |
UP |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
? |
10 |
Felder |
?? |
?? |
New in box, looks like a guide of some sort [shipped 2013] |
? |
? |
| 11 |
Felder |
20" Jointer/Planer |
Format 4 Dual 51 3 ph? |
2006 model purchased in 2008. Looks unused - no plug |
? |
$ 10,000 |
| 12 |
Felder |
Eccentric Hold Downs |
? |
New in box |
? |
? |
| 13 |
Felder |
Slider/Shaper w/ Feeder |
Model KF700 3 ph? |
Purchased new in 2001 |
? |
$ 10,000 |
| 14 |
Felder |
Shaper Arbor |
? |
Found in bench drawer |
? |
? |
| 15 |
Felder |
Shaper Cutting Head |
04-2-098 MAN |
Found in bench drawer |
? |
? |
| 16 |
Felder |
Shaper Cutting Head |
131[93]x40x30 |
With inter-changeable cutter sets; with wooden case |
? |
? |
| 17 |
Felder |
Track Saw Guide rail |
FS 1080/2 |
Stated as $115 new |
$ 115 |
$ 60 |
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Re: Pricing for used Felder tools
I think the Dual 20" is closer to fair than the KF.? I don't keep up on the JP but don't remember that the 2006 models had any issues the Format builds were pretty stout while the early 2000s 700 series did have some design weaknesses.? Equipment prices are
crazy right now so any comparable from a couple of years ago is way off.? Dave
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I think the pricing on the KF and the Dual51 are pretty optimistic.
They're old - unused , but old nonetheless.? The slider is practically ancient - meaning no x-roll or dbl. trunion, which drives the price down especially for a commercial setting.
Felder has a 2011 in single phase now for $9500-? I'd think that'd represent the top of the market.? Which brings us to 3ph machines.? That's going to narrow the buying pool considerably.? You really should find out / list what options these machine have too.?
Silent Power heads and digital drives affect the value a lot.
The tracksaw guide rail is Festool , not Felder and the price is $125.? If it's new, should fetch at least $100 by the end of the week.
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Re: Pricing for used Felder tools
I think the pricing on the KF and the Dual51 are pretty optimistic.
They're old - unused , but old nonetheless.? The slider is practically ancient - meaning no x-roll or dbl. trunion, which drives the price down especially for a commercial setting.
Felder has a 2011 in single phase now for $9500-? I'd think that'd represent the top of the market.? Which brings us to 3ph machines.? That's going to narrow the buying pool considerably.? You really should find out / list what options these machine have too.? Silent Power heads and digital drives affect the value a lot.
The tracksaw guide rail is Festool , not Felder and the price is $125.? If it's new, should fetch at least $100 by the end of the week.
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Albert Lee
PK
Mark Foster
imran
David P. Best