Another option is to sell the house with all the tools in the basement.?
If John has to manage the estate sale, he can always take a 30% cut :)
James
No small task to get everything out of your basement.? Maybe it should just be converted into a museum with tours provided? Dave Davies
My estate plan identifies (for my kids) which FOG members to call to get everything out of the basement and sold.? Payback to John Renzetti for originally talking me into a Felder.? LOL
Some day my kids are going to have to get all of this stuff back out of the house. That will be their problem, though ?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Thanks for all the input, and Roger, thanks for pointing out the Harvey slider! It looks almost identical to the SS, but on sale right now for $300 less. However, I have a Rockler Woodworking 15 minutes away, and I just went down there and got a hand's on?experience?with the SS with slider. It was mounted in place of the cast iron wing, so as close to the blade as possible. I was not thrilled with it, after?exclusively using my 9' KF700s for years now. The adjustments seem okay, and it's a huge upgrade over standard cabinet saw, but I've already rewired my brain to the Euro slider style, and it felt more like stepping back down the evolutionary chain. Don't know how else to explain it. The flesh sensing tech is awesome, and I'm hoping Felder starts offering it in their more affordable saws, but as has been mentioned, the sliding table offers a lot of options for clamping fixtures, F&F, pneumatic claming, etc. I'm definitely leaning toward a short stroke Hammer at this point. Anyone have one they don't need anymore? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but hey, it never hurts to ask! I'm in the SF Bay Area, but willing to drive. Thanks, Shawn
On Friday, February 11, 2022, 10:30:24 AM PST, Roger S <rsinden@...> wrote:
If you go down the Hammer C3 rip fence route then I can guarantee that you will lose the will to live. ?It shouldn¡¯t take several minutes to adjust and lock the fence in the right position. ?
On 11 Feb 2022, at 16:31, Bob Card < bob@...> wrote:
I have a SawStop and a Hammer C3 (and also a SCM si400 slider).? There is no comparison in a "bolt on" slider to a true format slider. For your smaller shop, maybe a Hammer slider?? It would cost roughly the same as a SawsStop but even with the short slider, it would give you MUCH more flexibility for cross cuts, and would save you from having to keep a cross cut sled stored somewhere.? Now, with that said, if you do plan on using the SawStop with their sliding attachment, I must say it does look like their attachment is pretty well built.? I've also seen some comments on other groups that Harvey makes a slider (and is possibly the maker of the SawStop slider), and that might also be worth looking at.?
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Hi John,
The standard pallet jack is too wide to fit under the K700 frame. ?You will need to acquire a narrow pallet jack. ?It looks like you should be able to set the main chassis on the concrete patio and build a ramp to get it into the house with the narrow pallet jack.
Good luck,
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 10:47 AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
?I will probably use a similar rig for mine. Whether I operate it or get someone else to do it is still up in the air. Unfortunately I cannot drive right in with it. I¡¯ll have to put it on the patio and roll it into the house. Some of those scrubby shrubs are going to suffer! Will a standard pallet jack work with this, or does it have to be a narrow model? <0057DBE5-D870-464F-8C0E-EB86A00EF699.jpeg> -- John Hinman Boise ID Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
|
No small task to get everything out of your basement.? Maybe it should just be converted into a museum with tours provided? Dave Davies
My estate plan identifies (for my kids) which FOG members to call to get everything out of the basement and sold.? Payback to John Renzetti for originally talking me into a Felder.? LOL
Some day my kids are going to have to get all of this stuff back out of the house. That will be their problem, though ?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
My estate plan identifies (for my kids) which FOG members to call to get everything out of the basement and sold. ?Payback to John Renzetti for originally talking me into a Felder. ?LOL
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Some day my kids are going to have to get all of this stuff back out of the house. That will be their problem, though ?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
|
Good points, my father was never big into hand tools and is really a power tool guy. I was Mainly was relegated to sanding duty until I was old enough to work a tablesaw. Definitely have some time and the hand tool approach is a good one.?
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Hey Stan, My kids have had a place in my shop since they were probably around 5 years old each (they're 9 and 11 now). But not when I'm in production mode. If I'm focused and have a deadline, or if I have workers in the shop with me, they know they can get my attention through the windows in the shop door.? But when it's hobby woodworking time, they can be in the shop, wearing shoes and safety glasses. They dig through the scrap bins, grab whatever they want, and can clamp pieces in the vise, drill holes, sand, screw things together, use fine tooth Japanese saws, hammer, and ask any question that pops into their head. And a lot of random questions pop into the heads of kids. It's a lot like playing catch with your kids in that it is an amazing opportunity to bond, joke around, and have actual conversations beyond "how was school today....fine....". When my daughter was 9, she had a project for music class. She had to make an instrument out of anything. Could have been a milk jug and a stick. But she came to the woodshop, and she made a mahogany box drum out of scraps from the bin. She designed it, she did all of the woodworking and finishing, and she was so proud. I didn't do any of the cutting, but I set up all the cuts for her and supervised every step of the way. She used: sliding table saw, planer, jointer, bandsaw, 23ga nail gun, sander, palm router, sanding block, scraper, chisel and mallet (to tune the two tones on the top plates, experimenting with taking a little more off to raise the pitch). She masked off around the glue joints, glued and clamped, learned how to apply oil finishes. And I learned about her music class, the kids' names, the music teacher's eccentricities, what my daughter thinks about reggae, etc. By the time your kids are ready for the slider, my guess is that Felder with have their flesh sensing tech available on the lower priced machines (not just the Format4). Might be a good excuse for a new saw at that point! -Shawn
.
On Friday, February 11, 2022, 10:15:59 AM PST, Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
I have kids now 12 and 14, and they are welcome in the shop. I also have not let them operate (yet) table saw on their own. Or shaper :-).
They are quite proficient on the bandsaw, which is a lot safer. I got them started a scroll saw, which might be easy cut a finger on, but is unlikely to cut a finger off.
I grew up on a farm.? I was using a table saw unsupervised at 14, was chainsawing in the woods without chaps (kevlar chaps weren't a thing back then), running heavy farm equipment, driving tractors on public roads, and more then welcome to grab a firearm from the case and go shooting by myself as well any time. I'm not sure whether that was just old school raised-on-farm, or whether that is just the differing social norms on safety from N years ago.
I try to imagine letting my kids do what I did back then at the same age and I can't get there.
-Bob
It looks like you have still a few years to figure that out.? My kids were and are always welcome in the shop and as teenagers are now able to operate many machines.? But that is a slow progression.? They first started out hammering hundreds of nails into scrap and sanding things into oblivion.? I started them with the necessary safety gear immediately: small safety glasses and their own Peltor kids ear protection.? Next was explaining the risks of the various tools? and machines and explaining where there are safe places to stand and observe.? Chisels are quite a frightening thing if used wrong and a plane has a far lower potential for serious injury.? It took them many years and discussions on what may go wrong when using machines before they started operating them.? A band saw can take fingers off in a hurry but is a much safer tool than a miter saw.? A slider (especially with hold-downs) is a pretty safe machine in my opinion.? However, they are still intimidated by the apparent complexity and only use it when I am around.? It is not so much that I don't think it is safe but they don't feel comfortable.?
So get your kids into the shop and get them excited about building stuff by all means.? The biggest challenge for me was and is to just help them with their projects according to their ideas even if I know they could be improved.? It is not about the best end product but about doing it themselves that counts.? Taking over kills their sense of accomplishment and joy fast.? Helping them with tools to cut down on tedious handwork can get them to the result faster and is usually appreciated.? Letting them operate a machine you have set up and demonstrated may be a good first step when the time comes.? Assist and teach them. Watch them in the process and you will know when they are able to take over.
Enjoy!
Johannes
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
melting the glue stick.
James
Glue stick?? To bridge the two? ? Hum, I cannot get rid of the thud at the transition, the cast top and steel table are perfectly aligned, I will try hot glue stick.
James
It took me a year to finally get annoyed enough at the bump transition to re-align the cast tp to the steel out-table, it made it much more tolerable, but next step is to use shop finishing fillers like a burn-in stick to bridge the crossing.
As far as complaining about the fence, I've been plenty happy with it once locked down for actual use.
Same concern. Strange design.
--
Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Some day my kids are going to have to get all of this stuff back out of the house. That will be their problem, though ?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
|
I will probably use a similar rig for mine. Whether I operate it or get someone else to do it is still up in the air. Unfortunately I cannot drive right in with it. I¡¯ll have to put it on the patio and roll it into the house. Some of those scrubby shrubs are going to suffer! Will a standard pallet jack work with this, or does it have to be a narrow model?  -- John Hinman Boise ID Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
On my phone, the sound at ~40% level is equivalent to what I hear.
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 1:42 PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? I thought about filling the seam but had not been noticeable or annoying. Video attached. May need to up the volume to hear the muted thump.
Imran?
On Feb 11, 2022, at 12:58 PM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? It took me a year to finally get annoyed enough at the bump transition to re-align the cast tp to the steel out-table, it made it much more tolerable, but next step is to use shop finishing fillers like a burn-in stick to bridge the crossing.
As far as complaining about the fence, I've been plenty happy with it once locked down for actual use. Same concern. Strange design.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
I thought about filling the seam but had not been noticeable or annoying. Video attached. May need to up the volume to hear the muted thump.
Imran?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 11, 2022, at 12:58 PM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? It took me a year to finally get annoyed enough at the bump transition to re-align the cast tp to the steel out-table, it made it much more tolerable, but next step is to use shop finishing fillers like a burn-in stick to bridge the crossing.
As far as complaining about the fence, I've been plenty happy with it once locked down for actual use. Same concern. Strange design.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
I think the main thing is that the kids have fun. If they do not have fun they will stop doing it.
Different kids mature at different rates, too, so a parent needs to make individual assessments regarding what can be done. My older son is a hobby woodworker on his own now. My younger son did not show an interest in working with me in the shop until he was 30 ?
I started my boys on the lathe. Fast, immediate results, and seemed safer than some of the other tools.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Glue stick? ?To bridge the two?
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 10:20 AM, James Zhu <james.zhu2@...> wrote:
? Hum, I cannot get rid of the thud at the transition, the cast top and steel table are perfectly aligned, I will try hot glue stick.
James
It took me a year to finally get annoyed enough at the bump transition to re-align the cast tp to the steel out-table, it made it much more tolerable, but next step is to use shop finishing fillers like a burn-in stick to bridge the crossing.
As far as complaining about the fence, I've been plenty happy with it once locked down for actual use.
Same concern. Strange design.
--
Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Sure. I was a pediatrician. Kids are a lot more capable than today¡¯s helicopter parents believe or allow them to be. ?I wouldn¡¯t let a 14 year old use a table saw unsupervised. I see no reason a reasonably responsible kid that age can¡¯t use one under supervision.?
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On Feb 11, 2022, at 1:15 PM, Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
? I have kids now 12 and 14, and they are welcome in the shop. I also have not let them operate (yet) table saw on their own. Or shaper :-).
They are quite proficient on the bandsaw, which is a lot safer. I got them started a scroll saw, which might be easy cut a finger on, but is unlikely to cut a finger off.
I grew up on a farm.? I was using a table saw unsupervised at 14, was chainsawing in the woods without chaps (kevlar chaps weren't a thing back then), running heavy farm equipment, driving tractors on public roads, and more then welcome to grab a firearm from the case and go shooting by myself as well any time. I'm not sure whether that was just old school raised-on-farm, or whether that is just the differing social norms on safety from N years ago.
I try to imagine letting my kids do what I did back then at the same age and I can't get there.
-Bob
It looks like you have still a few years to figure that out.? My kids were and are always welcome in the shop and as teenagers are now able to operate many machines.? But that is a slow progression.? They first started out hammering hundreds of nails into scrap and sanding things into oblivion.? I started them with the necessary safety gear immediately: small safety glasses and their own Peltor kids ear protection.? Next was explaining the risks of the various tools? and machines and explaining where there are safe places to stand and observe.? Chisels are quite a frightening thing if used wrong and a plane has a far lower potential for serious injury.? It took them many years and discussions on what may go wrong when using machines before they started operating them.? A band saw can take fingers off in a hurry but is a much safer tool than a miter saw.? A slider (especially with hold-downs) is a pretty safe machine in my opinion.? However, they are still intimidated by the apparent complexity and only use it when I am around.? It is not so much that I don't think it is safe but they don't feel comfortable.?
So get your kids into the shop and get them excited about building stuff by all means.? The biggest challenge for me was and is to just help them with their projects according to their ideas even if I know they could be improved.? It is not about the best end product but about doing it themselves that counts.? Taking over kills their sense of accomplishment and joy fast.? Helping them with tools to cut down on tedious handwork can get them to the result faster and is usually appreciated.? Letting them operate a machine you have set up and demonstrated may be a good first step when the time comes.? Assist and teach them. Watch them in the process and you will know when they are able to take over.
Enjoy!
Johannes
|
If you go down the Hammer C3 rip fence route then I can guarantee that you will lose the will to live. ?It shouldn¡¯t take several minutes to adjust and lock the fence in the right position. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11 Feb 2022, at 16:31, Bob Card < bob@...> wrote:
I have a SawStop and a Hammer C3 (and also a SCM si400 slider).? There is no comparison in a "bolt on" slider to a true format slider. For your smaller shop, maybe a Hammer slider?? It would cost roughly the same as a SawsStop but even with the short slider, it would give you MUCH more flexibility for cross cuts, and would save you from having to keep a cross cut sled stored somewhere.? Now, with that said, if you do plan on using the SawStop with their sliding attachment, I must say it does look like their attachment is pretty well built.? I've also seen some comments on other groups that Harvey makes a slider (and is possibly the maker of the SawStop slider), and that might also be worth looking at.?
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Hum, I cannot get rid of the thud at the transition, the cast top and steel table are perfectly aligned, I will try hot glue stick.
James
It took me a year to finally get annoyed enough at the bump transition to re-align the cast tp to the steel out-table, it made it much more tolerable, but next step is to use shop finishing fillers like a burn-in stick to bridge the crossing.
As far as complaining about the fence, I've been plenty happy with it once locked down for actual use.
Same concern. Strange design.
--
Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
I have kids now 12 and 14, and they are welcome in the shop. I also have not let them operate (yet) table saw on their own. Or shaper :-).
They are quite proficient on the bandsaw, which is a lot safer. I got them started a scroll saw, which might be easy cut a finger on, but is unlikely to cut a finger off.
I grew up on a farm.? I was using a table saw unsupervised at 14, was chainsawing in the woods without chaps (kevlar chaps weren't a thing back then), running heavy farm equipment, driving tractors on public roads, and more then welcome to grab a firearm from the case and go shooting by myself as well any time. I'm not sure whether that was just old school raised-on-farm, or whether that is just the differing social norms on safety from N years ago.
I try to imagine letting my kids do what I did back then at the same age and I can't get there.
-Bob
It looks like you have still a few years to figure that out.? My kids were and are always welcome in the shop and as teenagers are now able to operate many machines.? But that is a slow progression.? They first started out hammering hundreds of nails into scrap and sanding things into oblivion.? I started them with the necessary safety gear immediately: small safety glasses and their own Peltor kids ear protection.? Next was explaining the risks of the various tools? and machines and explaining where there are safe places to stand and observe.? Chisels are quite a frightening thing if used wrong and a plane has a far lower potential for serious injury.? It took them many years and discussions on what may go wrong when using machines before they started operating them.? A band saw can take fingers off in a hurry but is a much safer tool than a miter saw.? A slider (especially with hold-downs) is a pretty safe machine in my opinion.? However, they are still intimidated by the apparent complexity and only use it when I am around.? It is not so much that I don't think it is safe but they don't feel comfortable.?
So get your kids into the shop and get them excited about building stuff by all means.? The biggest challenge for me was and is to just help them with their projects according to their ideas even if I know they could be improved.? It is not about the best end product but about doing it themselves that counts.? Taking over kills their sense of accomplishment and joy fast.? Helping them with tools to cut down on tedious handwork can get them to the result faster and is usually appreciated.? Letting them operate a machine you have set up and demonstrated may be a good first step when the time comes.? Assist and teach them. Watch them in the process and you will know when they are able to take over.
Enjoy!
Johannes
|
Re: Everyday Glue Recommendation
Heads up TBIII is known to lose adhesion at higher temps post-drying, and many a door shop has found?out the hard way that "exterior rated" that made TB3 so attractive was not so once full sun hit the doors repeatedly and delaminated and opened joints where TB2 had previously held after a couple of years. There are other answers to the TB3 problem, but don't re-learn from those mistakes.
For everyday glue I use Titebond 50
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: Everyday Glue Recommendation
titebond does have an "extended time" glue that I've used and like.
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On 2/11/22 8:15 AM, imranindiana wrote: ?Running out of glue and since I am much more in the shop now, thinking of picking up a gal of Titebond III. It is little more than their interior basic glue but I rather not have multiple bottles. TB III also has the longest open/assembly time of the 3 kinds they offer. All 3 have 2 yr shelf life with proper storage.
Any recommendations on this or other brands to consider?
Imran
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David P. Best
imran
Jeff