Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Mark,
The concrete in the doorway is 1/4¡± lower than the interior slab. The 2¡¯ pad outside the doorway has minimal slope due to grading challenge. The rough grading is just shy of what it needs to be. I actually improved it but our underground landline was limiting the depth. We no longer have the landline so I can go lower now.
If we ever get a motorhome, the entire path road to door (~60¡¯) will need grading for proper entry/exit. Do not really want to do that now because if we get an RV instead (~10¡¯ tall with roof AC), we won¡¯t need much grading. So I was hoping to do final grading in couple of years when we know what we are going with.
Imran?
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On May 6, 2021, at 1:22 AM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote: ?I don't quite get it, a cross section would be better.? Is the inner floor is an inch and a half or so higher elevation than the outside slab?? Does the outer slab actually slope toward the door and water pools?? ?A wood threshold sitting submerged in water is definitely not a good plan.? But if it doesn't actually flow toward the door, and the issue is that it only slopes away slightly so doesn't drain too fast, then a linear drain (incorrectly referred to as "french drain") is a big investment for minor gain.? ?I installed a linear drain at my shop doors and it works great, but I have no threshold and inside and outside floors are same level and the rain pounds directly agains the doors (and then drops down into the drain), so the $10K or so it cost to install was worth it, but it doesn't sound like your situation warrants that.
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Glen,
Pemko 411 type seal is probably best for my situation. I will call them to see if they make a 6¡¯ long version. Thanks.
Imran
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On May 6, 2021, at 12:20 AM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote: ? Imran,
How about a grated trench drain and if need be grinding a slop on the shop part of the slab to flow water to the drain? I would get rid of the stop as they suck if your wheeling carts in and out and are just a trip hazzard. Use a Pemko 411 drop seal which will give you 1/2" of space off the floor and seal the bottom of the door. Pemko makes a lot of variations of the 411 but you have to be careful as some you can only shorten so much. I thnk the 420 or something will give you 3/4" space. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:15 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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Re: Working Time of West System Epoxy
Hi Glen,
The idea to recoat is to ensure that sufficient epoxy exists, i.e. it has not been absorbed by the substrate, so the joint is not starved of adhesive. Pic below from user manual, talks about doing it no later than when it starts to becomes tacky. However, you have all of the working time to assemble and clamp.
I suggest downloading the user manual if you have not yet, lots of good info.
Imran
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On May 6, 2021, at 12:12 AM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:
? Imran, Thank you,
I switched to another product for the totem pole due to how hot it got. However this is good because I haven't glued up my test curve yet and this makes me feel more confident.
I believe someone said to coat the surfaces and let them soak and coat again on assembly. I can't remember. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 8:15 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Glen,
I came across the working time of west system extra slow hardner. It is much longer than pot life, 3-4 hrs. Probably too late but something to remember.
Imran
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Mac, this is priceless - have you considered selling?non-fungible token for it? ?When are you coming back to Portland?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/  _,_
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
I don't quite get it, a cross section would be better.? Is the inner floor is an inch and a half or so higher elevation than the outside slab?? Does the outer slab actually slope toward the door and water pools?? ?A wood threshold sitting submerged in water is definitely not a good plan.? But if it doesn't actually flow toward the door, and the issue is that it only slopes away slightly so doesn't drain too fast, then a linear drain (incorrectly referred to as "french drain") is a big investment for minor gain.? ?I installed a linear drain at my shop doors and it works great, but I have no threshold and inside and outside floors are same level and the rain pounds directly agains the doors (and then drops down into the drain), so the $10K or so it cost to install was worth it, but it doesn't sound like your situation warrants that.
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Imran,
How about a grated trench drain and if need be grinding a slop on the shop part of the slab to flow water to the drain? I would get rid of the stop as they suck if your wheeling carts in and out and are just a trip hazzard. Use a Pemko 411 drop seal which will give you 1/2" of space off the floor and seal the bottom of the door. Pemko makes a lot of variations of the 411 but you have to be careful as some you can only shorten so much. I thnk the 420 or something will give you 3/4" space. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 3:15 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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Re: Working Time of West System Epoxy
Imran, Thank you,
I switched to another product for the totem pole due to how hot it got. However this is good because I haven't glued up my test curve yet and this makes me feel more confident.
I believe someone said to coat the surfaces and let them soak and coat again on assembly. I can't remember. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 8:15 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Glen,
I came across the working time of west system extra slow hardner. It is much longer than pot life, 3-4 hrs. Probably too late but something to remember.
Imran
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
On May 6, 2021 06:02, Jonathan Martens <jonathan@...> wrote: On May 6, 2021 05:58, Jonathan Martens <jonathan@...> wrote: No, I would what we Dutch call a 'valdorpel', which might be more convenient and keeps your current low threshold and clearance.
When the door is opened the weatherstrip pulls up, when closing the door it lowers and seals the slot between bottom of the door and threshold/floor:
Here is a random link for? picture says more than a thousand words:
https://www.schreuderenco.nl/valdorpel-planet-hs-1085-960-mm
You could use it together with this threshold for (even better) watertightness.?
https://www.schreuderenco.nl/buitendeurdorpel-planet-f140
Apart from that we almost always use the drip as shown in sketch by Martin in this thread.?
Regards,?
Jonathan?
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
You could use it together with this threshold for (even better) watertightness.?
https://www.schreuderenco.nl/buitendeurdorpel-planet-f140
Regards,
Jonathan?
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
No, I would what we Dutch call a 'valdorpel', which might be more convenient and keeps your current low threshold and clearance.
When the door is opened the weatherstrip pulls up, when closing the door it lowers and seals the slot between bottom of the door and threshold/floor:
Here is a random link for? picture says more than a thousand words:
https://www.schreuderenco.nl/valdorpel-planet-hs-1085-960-mm
Kind regards,
Jonathan?
On May 6, 2021 00:15, "imranindiana via groups.io" <imranindiana@...> wrote:
So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Hi Mark, ? I thought it was simple enough to explain. Anyhow, This is one design with a step threshold. There is wood under the door and then in the back there is a stop. ? 
? In the other scenario, like my current workshop door, there is just the stop behind the door. ? Difference between the two, is that door panel is above concrete in one and above wood in the other. Having the wood below as in the above pic, will divert rain water and prevent it from pooling underneath. In both cases there will be ?¡± gap between the door and concrete or wood. ? As a result of this exercise, I guess I just need to grade the ground to resolve the drainage issue. I was not mentally prepared for doing this any time soon. With drainage resolved I can go with a simple stop threshold as I have in my workshop. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of mark thomas Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2021 10:00 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Concrete vs Wood Exposure ? Imran, it'd be way nicer if you made more sketches and used less words.
I'm guessing you don't even have a threshold, but rather a wedge-shaped door stop, like this?
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Thanks Mac. That is certainly an option if I cannot accomplish by simply re-grading.
Imran?
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On May 5, 2021, at 9:39 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote: ?
Off to french drain!
<image.png> Designing and building for 50 years On May 5, 2021, at 7:05 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Mac,
Nice drawing. Appears the purpose of this drip is to shed rain water from the surface of the door to a distance where it can drain away from threshold. My issue is rain water on ground pooling next to threshold on one side and slowly draining / evaporating ?away.
Imran On May 5, 2021, at 6:51 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote: ? I attach a drip to door to move water away.
<image.jpg> Designing and building for 50 years On May 5, 2021, at 5:15 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Imran, it'd be way nicer if you made more sketches and used less words. I'm guessing you don't even have a threshold, but rather a wedge-shaped door stop, like this? 
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Off to french drain!
 Designing and building for 50 years
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On May 5, 2021, at 7:05 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Mac,
Nice drawing. Appears the purpose of this drip is to shed rain water from the surface of the door to a distance where it can drain away from threshold. My issue is rain water on ground pooling next to threshold on one side and slowly draining / evaporating ?away.
Imran On May 5, 2021, at 6:51 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote: ? I attach a drip to door to move water away.
<image.jpg> Designing and building for 50 years On May 5, 2021, at 5:15 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
Hi Mac,
Nice drawing. Appears the purpose of this drip is to shed rain water from the surface of the door to a distance where it can drain away from threshold. My issue is rain water on ground pooling next to threshold on one side and slowly draining / evaporating ?away.
Imran
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On May 5, 2021, at 6:51 PM, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote: ? I attach a drip to door to move water away.
<image.jpg> Designing and building for 50 years On May 5, 2021, at 5:15 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
I second Mac's autographed and dated sketch. The bigger and more conductive your drip edge to carry the water "OUT/AWAY" , the better your chances of not worrying about it. Any wooden products are gonna swell in the presence of moisture, which will eventually lead to ruin once they start making contact and rubbing/sticking.
For bonus protection, use a brush or sweep seal at the farthest?extent? of the drip edge (sweeping the floor)that will conduct water down to the concrete but through the magic of water surface tension, won't seep past and under the door.
For bonus bonus, use multiple brush or sweep seals for added draft/insect/water resilience and redundancy in case of damage.
And you can always mount a bulb seal from the door down rather than a threshold facing up.
These resources?are terrific for engineered concepts and pricing is not usually too bad either.?
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 5:51 PM Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression < airtightclamps@...> wrote: I attach a drip to door to move water away.
 Designing and building for 50 years ?So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Re: Concrete vs Wood Exposure
I attach a drip to door to move water away.
 Designing and building for 50 years
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On May 5, 2021, at 5:15 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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Concrete vs Wood Exposure
So for this storage room door, I prefer the threshold is not too high. I can do what I did for my shop. The threshold is on the interior and the back side of the door touches it. Threshold acts like a stop and has weatherstrip in it. So the bottom of the door is exposed to concrete. I wanted low threshold for moving equipment in and out and this has worked fine for 16+ yrs.
The difference in this shed¡¯s case is that while water sheds away from my shop door, right now the rain water does flow over the concrete pad in front of the door. This can be remedied by better grading to some extent but is a result of maximizing the height of door opening to be able to accommodate a 12¡¯ high clearance. So for a worst case scenario assume that after rain the water may pool on the low side corner of the door opening.
So if I place the threshold behind the door, I expect that the concrete will be wet for some time after it rains, at least under the left corner. If I extend the wood threshold under the door, let¡¯s say 3/4¡± thick, it will push water away but will likely absorb moisture in the process. Do you guys think having wood threshold under the door will be worthwhile?
Imran
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FOG members in Spokane area
I've been talking to a guy about a metal lathe in the Spokane area.? He seems like a nice guy but unable to cope with any help on moving or dealing with any way to ship the machine.? I remember someone here who offered help with a similar situation a year ago and wondering if anyone near there would be willing to help with arrangements for shipping.? I understand there is more risk than reward for the help and I will walk or run away if necessary.? The lathe is an old English Holbrook which is very similar in build to a Smart and Brown I have.? Thanks and feel free to contact me directly.? Dave
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Working Time of West System Epoxy
?Glen,
I came across the working time of west system extra slow hardner. It is much longer than pot life, 3-4 hrs. Probably too late but something to remember.
Imran
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imran
David P. Best
Jonathan Martens