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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
Hi Imram.
I checked ebay and didn’t see any Woodmasters. Any ideas where I should look? I’m in California. Slot depth is fairly important, tie height is not. We build track panels 10 feet in length, take them to the road bed; pour washed gravel over them, then pull up to final height, so height variability is not a problem. |
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Re: Mortising unit for Ad741 / FD250
#jointerplaner
开云体育Jonathan, I was discouraged from exploring end mills due to low RPM of FD250. If you think they slot better than birdsmouth, can you share what you use? Have you tried larger than 1/2”? I would like to mortice 5/8” or 3/4” if possible. Imran On Jan 29, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote:
?I have one I use on my CF741.? I've owned it for a year and used it in a couple dozen separate set ups.? It's quick and easy to roll into position and cam locks securely.? It sets up fast to layout lines.? Sometimes I use gage blocks.? Its easy to set up for a matching piece.? I cut the mortise first then match the tenon.? Then I roll it into a corner out of the way.? I like that part best.? I use 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" HSS 4-flute, center cutting chinesium end mills which cut fast and seem to be holding edges.? If I cut too deep in a pass, the 1/4 x 6" long will vibrate and cut about .010" to .020" oversize.? If you just want to cut accurate mortises and can get one for a decent price, go for it.? It's a solid machine.? I advise you to save your money for more important tools. As an example, I'm on the hunt for a Deckel FP1 universal tool room mill (which could cut mortises too).? Because it is an important machine, it's worth the money to pay up and avoid a chinese mill.? Some guys buy new chinese then take it apart and rework the slop out.? I think a better buy is used American, Swiss, or German old iron and rebuild.? If anyone knows of one available, please let me know. |
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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
开云体育Mike W, Just FYI, Woodmaster has a moulding option that allows you to add a router on the infeed and another on the outfeed. Woodmaster offers a poly bed for mouldings but you can just buy a sheet and screw it down to the slots in the infeed and outfeed tables. Then make a sled with poly bottom. On top of sled, a fixed fence in front and a vice fence in the rear. The fences can be as tall as your workpiece or a smidge lower. Ends of fences will get milled. Runners, one on each side, will register each ties side to side. My 718 had 5HP motor. You may go thru infeed and outfeed rollers but they were $20 a piece, so fairly cheap to replace. BTW, milling from top will remove variation in ties thickness and reflect that in groove depth. Milling from bottom will give you fixed groove depth but variation in thickness of ties will remain. Not sure if one is better than the other of maybe it is don’t care. Imran On Jan 29, 2021, at 1:40 PM, TMichael WARD via groups.io <tmikko@...> wrote:
?Great stuff ! What a rich resource you guys are. Here are some thoughts on your excellent replies. First, Mark T's dwg is correct for the ties. They are 1.5" thick, ~ 16 inches long and 2-1/2" high.? The material is recycled, molded plastic.? The specs on spacing of the grooves is 7-5/8" +.092, -0.? Or, better said, 7.667 +- .046 if my math is correct.? Jonathan M: The length of the ties are nominal, so making one cut and flipping them means you handle them twice, and any error in length is translated into an error on spacing. Hence my desire to make both cuts in one pass. George W; 18,500 pieces, at 3 per foot means we are refurbishing 6,175' of track with wood ties. Our RR has about 1.8 miles of track, and the older track is on wooden ties, which we are replacing. Scale for narrow gage is 2.5"/ ft, for standard gage is 1.5"/ ft, so both can run on the same track. The precision required is to keep the engine wheels on the track, especially on curves, and with variability introduced during th making of the track panels. You can visit our website at pvarr.org if you want to see the operation. The CNC machine idea is great, maybe the best, but we are a volunteer organization with a low budget, so looking for reliable, safe, low cost solutions. We do have folks with excellent metal working capabilities, so making a dedicated machine is not a challenge. It would be like the Woodmaster that Imram suggested. By the way, the right sized Woodmaster has? 5 hp motor. Interesting idea to buy one used and resell. A router table with two routers is a good idea, much easier to make than the dedicated machine. Mark T.: On a formica (slippery) table with a fence at right angles also good idea. I was thinking of the frame idea so one team could be loading a frame, another pushing it through, third disassembling. Good choice on the router bits. Brian: Rebate cutters are also a good idea, because the inside dimension of the cut must be precise, but the outside cut can be a little large, so 50mm or 2" would work David B. We are vols, so no pay, it is boring, but fun to figure out. Thanks again.? If this inspires more ideas, I'd love to hear them. Mike Ward |
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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
Great stuff ! What a rich resource you guys are.
Here are some thoughts on your excellent replies. First, Mark T's dwg is correct for the ties. They are 1.5" thick, ~ 16 inches long and 2-1/2" high.? The material is recycled, molded plastic.? The specs on spacing of the grooves is 7-5/8" +.092, -0.? Or, better said, 7.667 +- .046 if my math is correct.? Jonathan M: The length of the ties are nominal, so making one cut and flipping them means you handle them twice, and any error in length is translated into an error on spacing. Hence my desire to make both cuts in one pass. George W; 18,500 pieces, at 3 per foot means we are refurbishing 6,175' of track with wood ties. Our RR has about 1.8 miles of track, and the older track is on wooden ties, which we are replacing. Scale for narrow gage is 2.5"/ ft, for standard gage is 1.5"/ ft, so both can run on the same track. The precision required is to keep the engine wheels on the track, especially on curves, and with variability introduced during th making of the track panels. You can visit our website at pvarr.org if you want to see the operation. The CNC machine idea is great, maybe the best, but we are a volunteer organization with a low budget, so looking for reliable, safe, low cost solutions. We do have folks with excellent metal working capabilities, so making a dedicated machine is not a challenge. It would be like the Woodmaster that Imram suggested. By the way, the right sized Woodmaster has? 5 hp motor. Interesting idea to buy one used and resell. A router table with two routers is a good idea, much easier to make than the dedicated machine. Mark T.: On a formica (slippery) table with a fence at right angles also good idea. I was thinking of the frame idea so one team could be loading a frame, another pushing it through, third disassembling. Good choice on the router bits. Brian: Rebate cutters are also a good idea, because the inside dimension of the cut must be precise, but the outside cut can be a little large, so 50mm or 2" would work David B. We are vols, so no pay, it is boring, but fun to figure out. Thanks again.? If this inspires more ideas, I'd love to hear them. Mike Ward |
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Re: Mortising unit for Ad741 / FD250
#jointerplaner
Brian,?
Everyone has a price.? Does yours have imperial or metric dials? |
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Re: Mortising unit for Ad741 / FD250
#jointerplaner
I have one I use on my CF741.? I've owned it for a year and used it in a couple dozen separate set ups.? It's quick and easy to roll into position and cam locks securely.? It sets up fast to layout lines.? Sometimes I use gage blocks.? Its easy to set up for a matching piece.? I cut the mortise first then match the tenon.? Then I roll it into a corner out of the way.? I like that part best.? I use 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2" HSS 4-flute, center cutting chinesium end mills which cut fast and seem to be holding edges.? If I cut too deep in a pass, the 1/4 x 6" long will vibrate and cut about .010" to .020" oversize.? If you just want to cut accurate mortises and can get one for a decent price, go for it.? It's a solid machine.? I advise you to save your money for more important tools.
As an example, I'm on the hunt for a Deckel FP1 universal tool room mill (which could cut mortises too).? Because it is an important machine, it's worth the money to pay up and avoid a chinese mill.? Some guys buy new chinese then take it apart and rework the slop out.? I think a better buy is used American, Swiss, or German old iron and rebuild.? If anyone knows of one available, please let me know. |
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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
开云体育Why not set your dado in your slide using both the cross cut and rip fence as stops – awful lot of passes hogging it out I know.? The other suggestion someone made re setting up a CNC to make the passes would allow doing it on a handful at once depending on the bed size ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mark thomas
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2021 10:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] HP needed for heavy cutter? ? I believe attached sketch (not to scale) is what Mike needs -- ie, railroad ties (slots align the rails the proper distance apart).? Not really well suited to a moulder. |
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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
I believe attached sketch (not to scale) is what Mike needs -- ie, railroad ties (slots align the rails the proper distance apart).? Not really well suited to a moulder.
18,000 sounds like sort of a lot, but it's still just one batch.? It doesn't make sense to spend more time setting up a fancy machine than the time it will save processing the one batch. This is also obviously trivially simple to do with a shaper, but two passes required.? It probably makes more sense to just buckle down and face a few days of non-stop, dull, repetitive work, rather than build something.? Let's say?you gang up 10 at a time and slide them through.? Suppose it takes 30 seconds load up 10 pieces, 5 seconds to run back and forth, 15 seconds to flip the 10 pieces end to end, another few seconds to run the second slot through, but not back (helper unloads on the shaper outfeed side after second pass).? That's about a minute per 10 pieces, which is 30 hours for 18,000.? Let's say you budget double that time, it's still less time than building a custom machine with shafts and pulleys, etc.? ?A double router table like I described could be built in a day, and might halve the processing time.? ? |
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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
Do not want to belabor woodmaster like moulder option but you can mould and trim ends in one pass. potentially saving you handling 18K pieces twice.
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Imran On Jan 29, 2021, at 5:28 AM, Jonathan Martens <jonathan@...> wrote:
?On 29/01/2021 03:03, TMichael WARD via groups.io wrote: Why not use one rebate cutter and multiple passes? That would save you a dedicated device and you could do it on almost any shaper or dado capable (slider) saw. 1. Cut the material to width of your ties and as long as you possible can 2. Setup for the first rebate by setting the correct height for the shaper from the outer edge of your workpiece/set fence of saw and feed all your stock 3. Flip stock by 180 degrees and feed again to make the second rebate referencing the other side and feed all your stock 4. If the rebate is not wide enough repeat step 2 and 3 (to readjust your shaper or fence when using dado on saw) until you have reached the desired width 5. Now cut the material orthagonal to the orientation of the rebates to make the individual ties If you use a cutter with a width close to 1" but smaller than 2" you only need two passes for each rebate. WIth a shaper and a feeder this should be done pretty efficiently. Kind regards, Jonathan |
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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
On 29/01/2021 03:03, TMichael WARD via groups.io wrote:
Why not use one rebate cutter and multiple passes? That would save you a dedicated device and you could do it on almost any shaper or dado capable (slider) saw. 1. Cut the material to width of your ties and as long as you possible can 2. Setup for the first rebate by setting the correct height for the shaper from the outer edge of your workpiece/set fence of saw and feed all your stock 3. Flip stock by 180 degrees and feed again to make the second rebate referencing the other side and feed all your stock 4. If the rebate is not wide enough repeat step 2 and 3 (to readjust your shaper or fence when using dado on saw) until you have reached the desired width 5. Now cut the material orthagonal to the orientation of the rebates to make the individual ties If you use a cutter with a width close to 1" but smaller than 2" you only need two passes for each rebate. WIth a shaper and a feeder this should be done pretty efficiently. Kind regards, Jonathan |
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Re: HP needed for heavy cutter?
开云体育Glen,Got it. ?You’r’e on the schedule as soon as this pandemic is under control, the roads open over the pass south, the California wildfires stay in remission, and Quince restaurant reopens in SFO. ?Until then, check out my new pole dancing class videos on Parler.
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Re: Mortising unit for Ad741 / FD250
#jointerplaner
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Re: Mortising unit for Ad741 / FD250
#jointerplaner
开云体育David... go another “route”? You named and rejected three routers just then. Love it!Warm regards, Lucky? On 29 Jan 2021, at 6:20 pm, David Pepke <davidpepke@...> wrote:
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TMichael WARD
imran
Jonathan Smith
Jonathan Martens
David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer