Re: Upgrading to Felder...Chicagoland Owners
K Patel - I sent you a private message, happy to help in any way I can from STL.
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Re: Upgrading to Felder...Chicagoland Owners
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry?
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Hello All,
Been a hobbyist for about 20 years and finally in a position to have a dedicated 30'x25' woodworking shop and upgrade my equipment to Felder / Hammer.? After much research and working with Felder's Delaware office, have shortlisted the following pieces:? K700S,
F700M, A341, and FB510.? Would much appreciate hearing from any locals in the Chicagoland area who have this equipment in their shops and are willing to allow me to see/"feel" the equipment in person...given the price point/investment am hesitant to purchase
before at least being able to see the machine in person/up close.? And of course, other feedback my shortlist most welcome!
Best,
K Patel
?
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Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Hey Roger,? I see the confusion.? On item #3 that you pointed out, that was the case because I did not have the planer limit switch wire (#4 on my junction box picture) plugged in.? It was engaging the ebrake during that testing period because of that.? Once i addressed this and redid the test, both the shaper and table saw worked.?? On item #5, I did the test with planer motor wiring while not plugged in.? I have not removed the motor yet, so i will test this at the motor as well.? On the table saw motor wiring and shaper motor wiring there is no continuity between between the Z1/Z2 or U1/U2 to ground. My post #112944 goes through all the testing I did once I realized that the planer limit switch was not plugged in.??
My post? #112958?goes through me testing the shaper motor in the planer connection on the electrical box. -Annu
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Re: CF 741 no start/ slow start
Hi Murray,
Does this look familiar?
happened on my band saw today.
Imran PS: I did not know you attached a pic until this morning when I saw Joe‘s response?
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On Jan 15, 2021, at 6:35 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? Hi Murray, ? Typically run cap is much smaller value. Are they both 80uF in the parts list? Either way, the caps should have capacitance and voltage listed on them.
Good that you found it could be not at full speed due to cap. If you happen to have the link I would appreciate it. Always trying to learn.
Imran?
On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 PM, murrayau1 <murraywp@...> wrote:
? Thanks Imran, I have located the capacitors in the main electrical compartment, they don’t show any obvious signs of damage but from what I’ve read they can simply fail over time so I still suspect there the most likely cause of my problems. I did a bit of boning up and a number of websites suggested a failed capacitor can cause the motor run at less than full speed.
The capacitors are labelled 1C 1 and C 2. They also show up with the same names in the circuit diagram. However in the table of parts there appears to be no item with this name, instead there is 1 Ca and 1 Cb (80 uf), which I suspect is them.
Murray
<IMG_5778.JPG>
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Re: New (to me) Felder Owner
Mac - I like it! Are these referred to as "bridge clamps" or do you have some other technical name like "straps and screws"? or "batten and bolt" lol?
I like your hold downs for the narrow stock. I've been wondering how to make air clamps have an extended reach. I assume you made those?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Upgrading to Felder...Chicagoland Owners
Hello All,
Been a hobbyist for about 20 years and finally in a position to have a dedicated 30'x25' woodworking shop and upgrade my equipment to Felder / Hammer.? After much research and working with Felder's Delaware office, have shortlisted the following pieces:? K700S, F700M, A341, and FB510.? Would much appreciate hearing from any locals in the Chicagoland area who have this equipment in their shops and are willing to allow me to see/"feel" the equipment in person...given the price point/investment am hesitant to purchase before at least being able to see the machine in person/up close.? And of course, other feedback my shortlist most welcome!
Best,
K Patel
?
|
Re: New (to me) Felder Owner
I like your hold downs for the narrow stock. I've been wondering how to make air clamps have an extended reach. I assume you made those?
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Re: New (to me) Felder Owner
Mac, ? What are those adjustable feet you have on the holddowns.? Good idea. Thanks, Dave Davies
On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 9:19 AM Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression < airtightclamps@...> wrote: Greetings: Low tech solution Instagram friend
And few picks cutting leg tapers for friend Tony with my simple hold downs. 4 legs ,8 cuts, reference of of pencil Mark on table and eyeball set ups maybe 30 minutes total All exact. Mac,,,
     Designing and building for 50 years On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:42 PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Here's my laser solution. This laser's gyro function?made it unreliable for install work, but that doesn't matter in this situation. I'm kind of amazed?it works as well as it does. <image.png> Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Hi Annu
I'm a little confused with what you’ve said below.
So my question is this...if the brake board is faulty, then why is the shaper and tablesaw working fine when the planer motor is disconnected
But in another post you said
3.? I tried with the planer motor disconnected.? When the circuit breaker is turned on, there is no noise at all, confirming that the humming from #2 was comming from the planer motor.? If I push the on button in either table saw or shaper mode, their respective motors start making a humming noise
Next up, when you did this test?
5.? He said that eack motor has two sets of winding connections (U1/U2 and Z1/Z2) and a ground connection.? There should be continuity between the corresponding winding pairs but not between them (U1/Z1, U2/Z2, etc.) or between the ground and one of the winding pairs.? So i checked this on the planer motor.? I had continuty between the Z1/Z2 connection and ground which he said indicated the motor short.? I checked the other two motor wires and the continuity was as he stated.
Did you do it with the motor plugged in or not ? ?What resistance did you get on the meter ?
If the planer motor was plugged in, please humour me and check the whether Z1/Z2 on either of the other two motors also show a sort to ground when they are plugged in.
To pick up on your other comments in the last post….
?Additionally, if you plug the planer motor into the tablesaw or shaper motor connections, it has the same issue, ? ? The DC braking feed is common across all three motors - regardless of function switch position. It comes from (22) on the contactor as I said then feeds in to pin 4 (Z2) and loops through to the same pin on the other motors. ?So if the fault is external to the planer motor then that is what you would expect to happen.
Cheers
Roger
. ?
Hey Roger,?
So my question is this...if the brake board is faulty, then why is the shaper and tablesaw working fine when the planer motor is disconnected.? Additionally, if you plug the planer motor into the tablesaw or shaper motor connections, it has the same issue, whereas if you plug the shaper motor or table saw motor into the planer motor connection, they still work fine.? We'll find out tomorrow.? A new motor should be here in the afternoon and i'm working on getting the machine lifted and placed on wooden cribbing this afternoon.? I feel pretty sure that there is either a ground short in the motor or the wiring to planer.? When I get the motor out, i'll test it at the motor with the wiring disconnected.? I will say that this group along with Felder support have been awesome for support.? I was on the phone with a Felder tech for an hour yesterday that has done this swap out before and he took me through a very detail discussion of what i need to do with and excellent emphasis on safety considerations.
-Annu
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Re: Can Anyone Identify What These Parts Are?
Here is documentation for the old style tenon plate originally sent to me by Mac.
Joe
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Re: New (to me) Felder Owner
Greetings: Low tech solution Instagram friend
And few picks cutting leg tapers for friend Tony with my simple hold downs. 4 legs ,8 cuts, reference of of pencil Mark on table and eyeball set ups maybe 30 minutes total All exact. Mac,,,
     Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:42 PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Here's my laser solution. This laser's gyro function?made it unreliable for install work, but that doesn't matter in this situation. I'm kind of amazed?it works as well as it does. <image.png> Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Hey Roger,?
So my question is this...if the brake board is faulty, then why is the shaper and tablesaw working fine when the planer motor is disconnected.? Additionally, if you plug the planer motor into the tablesaw or shaper motor connections, it has the same issue, whereas if you plug the shaper motor or table saw motor into the planer motor connection, they still work fine.? We'll find out tomorrow.? A new motor should be here in the afternoon and i'm working on getting the machine lifted and placed on wooden cribbing this afternoon.? I feel pretty sure that there is either a ground short in the motor or the wiring to planer.? When I get the motor out, i'll test it at the motor with the wiring disconnected.? I will say that this group along with Felder support have been awesome for support.? I was on the phone with a Felder tech for an hour yesterday that has done this swap out before and he took me through a very detail discussion of what i need to do with and excellent emphasis on safety considerations.
-Annu
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Re: Pending delivery, looking for advice
Imran,?
I fairly doubt you are lacking in the smart or clever department. I wasn't here to judge the Portamate bases, but since you broached the subject, I had a least 4 of them from a 10+ year back era and really disliked that the wheels and frame were too close to the ground for going over anything but the most smooth floors and I pretty much had to wear steel toes because I tripped over the cam-lifting?levers and sticking-out components pretty?regularly. The corner issues I seem to recall a worry as well especially on an open-stand jointer that would never fit quite-right. When I looked up the model Mikkel specified, I assumed it looked like it had improved over my experiences from earlier versions.
And, hey, hoists are great, as long as safe rigging practices are used. Some people use hoists so much that every precision tool they own have chain-scratch marks to prove it. Now I keep a batch of nylon?slings on hand at all times just for the guys who use chains and have never seen them.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 5:59 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Brett,
I guess I am not smart or clever. I only have one mobile base and I am pretty sure it is Portamate. Don’t really care for it. IIRC, there are four pieces of angle iron with corner blocks. I could not figure out how i could assemble them and install with just blocks and levers on a machine that does not have a base (i.e., metal sides with folded lip). Perhaps having a hoist made me not think too hard ?
Imran ? Faced with similar situations on moving awkward objects over soft soil:
1. Buy a few sheets of 5mm underlayment board and use it piggy-back to lay the road over the fragile ground, taking up the previous sheet and relaying?in front of you.
2. From there you can use nearly any wheeled contraption with little rolling resistance,?including pipes for rollers. Maybe even the Portamate setup you already bought or a set of furniture caster dollies.
3. The engine hoist idea may work but you still have the issue with rigging and attachment?points under tension. You might find it's not too bad to work it off the pallet right onto the Portamate? with some levers, stacks of blocking, and clever use of the car jack. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 8:04 AM < mikkel@...> wrote: I have a Hammer K3 coming in a few weeks and I need to move all the way through my garden (like 50 meters) of grass and due to rain likely very soft soil. Therefore I was thinking on lifting the pallet up with a car jack and drill a hole on each side of the pallet both front and back to install a metal rod and some 7-8” allroads wheels to better be able to move it. What do you guys think or suggest as alternative if this doesnt work??
Also, how do you install it on a mobile base such as a Portamate? I bought the Portamate PM-3550 with extention kit, but not sure how to get the saw on it. One idea is to use and engine hoist to lift up the saw.?
--
Regards,
Mikkel
Mikkel
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Imran
No, the contactor is in circuit with both Live and Neutral. ?However, if you look at the diagram, you will see that the incoming power is T’d off on the supply side of the contactor (1 and 3 on the RH half of the contactor (6)) and then feed the brake board. ?When the contactor is in the OFF position, the timed DC from the brake board is fed into 21 on the RH half of the contactor, via the closed contact and thence to the motor. ? I’m pretty sure that temporarily disconnecting that wire between brake board and 21will stop the planer motor buzzing. ?
But, Annu, if you do do this then make sure you’re undoing the correct wire and keep your fingers away!
This is the ONLY way power gets through without the ON button being pressed. ?The brake boards are faulty. I rest my case !
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Roger,
If the contactor on Annu’s machine only switches one of the hot power legs then what he has shared is totally possible because the short is to ground. As soon as powers gets to the motor there will be high current. This current won’t be seen by the off contactor as it is not going thru it. I am not sure if his machine has a current limit on the contactor.
Imran On Jan 15, 2021, at 5:06 AM, Roger S < rsinden@...> wrote: ? Hi Annu
I still remain unconvinced that your planer motor is faulty. ?You have two faulty brake boards. ? I had exactly the same problem with my machine (although it’s 3 phase and not single like yours). ?
When I removed the fuse on my brake board, the problem went away. ?Hence my suggestion to you to do the same. ?However, if the fault on your brake boards are different to that on mine then simp,y removing the fuse wont have the same result on your machine.
Therefore you need to bypass that brake board. ?
Roger
hey Imran,?
Here are the various combinations of things that happen.??
When all the motors are plugged in:
1. If I have the mode switch in the planer position and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a racket and surges back and forth without me touching the start button.
1a. If I lift up the planer table so that the limit switch is open, have the mode switch in the planer position, and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a humming noise without me touching the start button.
2. If I put the mode switch in table saw or shaper, have all the limit switches in the closed position, and turn on the circuit breaker, planer still makes a humming noise.
3.? I tried with the planer motor disconnected.? When the circuit breaker is turned on, there is no noise at all, confirming that the humming from #2 was comming from the planer motor.? If I push the on button in either table saw or shaper mode, their respective motors start making a humming noise
When i talk about the limit switches, i'm talking about the one on the shaper door and the one under the planer table.? Open means that it is not in the run position and closed that it is in the run poisition.? I made sure that the one on the shaper door was in the middle position.? the E-Stop was pulled out in all scenarios above.? The humming noise is the same as when i used the turn off the machine previously and the e-brake was engaged.
Could it be that the position switch is not working correctly since there is some power going to the planer motor if it is plugged in and I turn on the circuit breaker?
Thanks,?
Annu
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Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Roger,
If the contactor on Annu’s machine only switches one of the hot power legs then what he has shared is totally possible because the short is to ground. As soon as powers gets to the motor there will be high current. This current won’t be seen by the off contactor as it is not going thru it. I am not sure if his machine has a current limit on the contactor.
Imran
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On Jan 15, 2021, at 5:06 AM, Roger S <rsinden@...> wrote: ? Hi Annu
I still remain unconvinced that your planer motor is faulty. ?You have two faulty brake boards. ? I had exactly the same problem with my machine (although it’s 3 phase and not single like yours). ?
When I removed the fuse on my brake board, the problem went away. ?Hence my suggestion to you to do the same. ?However, if the fault on your brake boards are different to that on mine then simp,y removing the fuse wont have the same result on your machine.
Therefore you need to bypass that brake board. ?
Roger
hey Imran,?
Here are the various combinations of things that happen.??
When all the motors are plugged in:
1. If I have the mode switch in the planer position and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a racket and surges back and forth without me touching the start button.
1a. If I lift up the planer table so that the limit switch is open, have the mode switch in the planer position, and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a humming noise without me touching the start button.
2. If I put the mode switch in table saw or shaper, have all the limit switches in the closed position, and turn on the circuit breaker, planer still makes a humming noise.
3.? I tried with the planer motor disconnected.? When the circuit breaker is turned on, there is no noise at all, confirming that the humming from #2 was comming from the planer motor.? If I push the on button in either table saw or shaper mode, their respective motors start making a humming noise
When i talk about the limit switches, i'm talking about the one on the shaper door and the one under the planer table.? Open means that it is not in the run position and closed that it is in the run poisition.? I made sure that the one on the shaper door was in the middle position.? the E-Stop was pulled out in all scenarios above.? The humming noise is the same as when i used the turn off the machine previously and the e-brake was engaged.
Could it be that the position switch is not working correctly since there is some power going to the planer motor if it is plugged in and I turn on the circuit breaker?
Thanks,?
Annu
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Re: Pending delivery, looking for advice
Brett,
I guess I am not smart or clever. I only have one mobile base and I am pretty sure it is Portamate. Don’t really care for it. IIRC, there are four pieces of angle iron with corner blocks. I could not figure out how i could assemble them and install with just blocks and levers on a machine that does not have a base (i.e., metal sides with folded lip). Perhaps having a hoist made me not think too hard ?
Imran
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On Jan 14, 2021, at 9:54 AM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Faced with similar situations on moving awkward objects over soft soil:
1. Buy a few sheets of 5mm underlayment board and use it piggy-back to lay the road over the fragile ground, taking up the previous sheet and relaying?in front of you.
2. From there you can use nearly any wheeled contraption with little rolling resistance,?including pipes for rollers. Maybe even the Portamate setup you already bought or a set of furniture caster dollies.
3. The engine hoist idea may work but you still have the issue with rigging and attachment?points under tension. You might find it's not too bad to work it off the pallet right onto the Portamate? with some levers, stacks of blocking, and clever use of the car jack. On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 8:04 AM < mikkel@...> wrote: I have a Hammer K3 coming in a few weeks and I need to move all the way through my garden (like 50 meters) of grass and due to rain likely very soft soil. Therefore I was thinking on lifting the pallet up with a car jack and drill a hole on each side of the pallet both front and back to install a metal rod and some 7-8” allroads wheels to better be able to move it. What do you guys think or suggest as alternative if this doesnt work??
Also, how do you install it on a mobile base such as a Portamate? I bought the Portamate PM-3550 with extention kit, but not sure how to get the saw on it. One idea is to use and engine hoist to lift up the saw.?
--
Regards,
Mikkel
Mikkel
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Re: CF 741 no start/ slow start
Hi Murray, ? Typically run cap is much smaller value. Are they both 80uF in the parts list? Either way, the caps should have capacitance and voltage listed on them.
Good that you found it could be not at full speed due to cap. If you happen to have the link I would appreciate it. Always trying to learn.
Imran?
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On Jan 14, 2021, at 11:21 PM, murrayau1 <murraywp@...> wrote: ? Thanks Imran, I have located the capacitors in the main electrical compartment, they don’t show any obvious signs of damage but from what I’ve read they can simply fail over time so I still suspect there the most likely cause of my problems. I did a bit of boning up and a number of websites suggested a failed capacitor can cause the motor run at less than full speed.
The capacitors are labelled 1C 1 and C 2. They also show up with the same names in the circuit diagram. However in the table of parts there appears to be no item with this name, instead there is 1 Ca and 1 Cb (80 uf), which I suspect is them.
Murray
<IMG_5778.JPG>
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Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Hi Annu
I still remain unconvinced that your planer motor is faulty. ?You have two faulty brake boards. ? I had exactly the same problem with my machine (although it’s 3 phase and not single like yours). ?
When I removed the fuse on my brake board, the problem went away. ?Hence my suggestion to you to do the same. ?However, if the fault on your brake boards are different to that on mine then simp,y removing the fuse wont have the same result on your machine.
Therefore you need to bypass that brake board. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
hey Imran,?
Here are the various combinations of things that happen.??
When all the motors are plugged in:
1. If I have the mode switch in the planer position and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a racket and surges back and forth without me touching the start button.
1a. If I lift up the planer table so that the limit switch is open, have the mode switch in the planer position, and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a humming noise without me touching the start button.
2. If I put the mode switch in table saw or shaper, have all the limit switches in the closed position, and turn on the circuit breaker, planer still makes a humming noise.
3.? I tried with the planer motor disconnected.? When the circuit breaker is turned on, there is no noise at all, confirming that the humming from #2 was comming from the planer motor.? If I push the on button in either table saw or shaper mode, their respective motors start making a humming noise
When i talk about the limit switches, i'm talking about the one on the shaper door and the one under the planer table.? Open means that it is not in the run position and closed that it is in the run poisition.? I made sure that the one on the shaper door was in the middle position.? the E-Stop was pulled out in all scenarios above.? The humming noise is the same as when i used the turn off the machine previously and the e-brake was engaged.
Could it be that the position switch is not working correctly since there is some power going to the planer motor if it is plugged in and I turn on the circuit breaker?
Thanks,?
Annu
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Re: Pending delivery, looking for advice
Thanks Brett. It's nice with first hand experiences like yours to confirm whats doable and whats not IRL :-)
Yeah, its still a big consideration how to best move it from the pallet on to the portamate....
--
Regards,
Mikkel
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imran
