Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
How serious of a hobbyist are you? Wanting to invest in a Hammer machine makes me think you are either a very serious hobbyist, small scale professional,? or someone with plenty of money looking for something to spend it on.
If you are serious, yes definitely Hammer, great machine. I would also suggest?that you buy a model with a helical cutterhead. Less fiddly and less time consuming, changing blades when compared with straight, one piece knives.? Longer blade life with solid
carbide.
The newer cutterhead allows you to plane knotty, or seriously figured timber, or long boards that change grain direction several times, without any tear out. This means significantly less time, effort needed for finishing. I mean light years difference. I cannot
emphasise this enough.
If you have the funds I would invest in the 16" model. I have the 12" model. Yes it is rare that I need to plane or thickness a board wider than 12". I do sell my work occasionally,(not enough to be a full time maker), and there are times when I really need
that extra capacity. Having to do a work around, manually increases the labour time unnecessarily, and increases the cost of the job, cuts into your margins.
Hamish
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Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Aside from the width discussion you may want to compare the bed lengths. Some US 6" jointers had longer tables than the wide euro ones so if you do long boards that may help in your decision. I went from a 6" to a 16" and quickly found I could flatten old cutting boards and an end table workbench by throwing the entire thing upside down on the jointer. Was it needed, no, but it was a fun day and I didn't need to re-oil a hand plane.?
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Mike B
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Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
?I, too, am a hobbyist.? I just received my A3-31.? I have never needed to JOINT a board wider than 12 inches, and when I've needed a wider planer, 16" wouldn't have been enough.? I belong to a community shop with a 20" planer and 21" drum sander for those occasions, and am currently looking for a cabinet shop willing to run, or let me run, for a fee wider stock on those very rare occasions when it's required.? ? Failing that, I'll use a router and sled.? That was my thinking on the purchase--I'll let you know in six months whether I'm rethinking that.
I too am a hobbyist woodworker who went through the same decision process. I was going with the A3-31 until a friend asked me why I was downsizing the width of my planer as my Dewalt DW735 did 13”. He had a great point and I went with the A3-41 and have not regretted have the extra width.?
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Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
I’d “+1” the 16” path. I have a Hammer A3-41 and have been very happy with it. I was initially a little skeptical of whether I’d need the 16” for jointing, but found myself needing every inch of that for a recent stair project where I was glueing up stair treads, then needed to joint and plane them. The blanks ended up being ~15”, it was really nice having the 16” to work with.?
In my mind, most shop-based thickness planers start at 15” and go up from there. So, my thought was that a 16” thickness planer was right in line with most machines, with the benefit of having a extra-large jointer.?
I think that it’s telling how many machines Felder offers in the 410mm/16” size (A3-41, AD741, AD941)compared to the larger/smaller offerings. I don’t have sales numbers on how many machines of a given size Felder sells, but I think it’s worth noting how much attention they give it....
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
I too am a hobbyist woodworker who went through the same decision process. I was going with the A3-31 until a friend asked me why I was downsizing the width of my planer as my Dewalt DW735 did 13”. He had a great point and I went with the A3-41 and have not regretted have the extra width.?
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Hi Martin, ? It’s all good now. ? I spent today on the planer blades. Initially I tried setting all the depth screws to the same height (1mm out from the carrier) but then found one carrier was 0.2mm thicker than the others, so tried a different setup to measure from the blade pins to the depth screws. ? I set all of these to the same distance then refitted the blades. ? I checked the TCD of the blade to outfeed table in three places on each blade and they were still a bit out (0.25mm variance) so I had to adjust the depth screws here and there with the blades in situ. Only small adjustments. ? After a while at that I got all four blade tips to within 0.05mm across the whole width. ? After that I got the outfeed set just a fraction below the blades. Less than 0.1mm. ? Then I got the infeed set dead level with the outfeed, making sure that the tables don’t move when the clamps go on. ? I set a 1mm cut and it planed perfectly. No chatter, snipe or anything. ? ? My fence doesn’t have anything to lock down at the far end. It’s the junior type without the micrometer type adjustment and despite weighing a ton, the far end of the fence still moves about a bit when set on the jointer as the table is quite long. ? I might see about making something to tie the far end of the fence down. ? ? I am well chuffed with how good the planed finish is. ? Thanks again for all your help! ?
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From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin Guiver via groups.io
Sent: 12 January 2021 19:16
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] BF6 Jointer/[planer blade setting #jointerplaner #jpsetup? Did you get my last message, well doesn't matter! How much out is the cutter bar with the out feed table, lets start there and then proceed in an orderly way On Tuesday, 12 January 2021, 18:38:34 GMT, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ?Success!
After spending a few days getting the tables co-planar and the planer blades all set to within a few 0.01mm, I planed my first bit of timber today.
The old BF6 cut perfectly! Smooth, square and snipe free.
Thanks for all your help and advice.
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Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Sometimes after glue up, the piece you want to flatten will be wider than 12”
Bill Bélanger?
I am close to buying a Hammer Planer / Jointer combo.? I am just a hobbyist who is frustrated with the capacity and performance of my old Delta 6" jointer.? I understand that the the 12" A3-31 is more likely to stay true and is easier to adjust when needed.? What are your opinions on that?? I like the idea of 16" capacity going to the A3-41 but don't want headaches with adjustment.? I also am not experienced enough yet to know if I need 16" capacity.? It seems most of my glue up would be 12" or less so I can alternate the grain to keep flat.? I would really love some opinions before I buy.?
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Evening Richard Did you get my last message, well doesn't matter! How much out is the cutter bar with the out feed table, lets start there and then proceed in an orderly way
.Martin.
On Tuesday, 12 January 2021, 18:38:34 GMT, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
On Jan 12, 2021, at 1:25 PM, richard_markham@... via groups.io <richard_markham@...> wrote: ?Success!
After spending a few days getting the tables co-planar and the planer blades all set to within a few 0.01mm, I planed my first bit of timber today.
The old BF6 cut perfectly! Smooth, square and snipe free.
Thanks for all your help and advice.
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12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
I am close to buying a Hammer Planer / Jointer combo.? I am just a hobbyist who is frustrated with the capacity and performance of my old Delta 6" jointer.? I understand that the the 12" A3-31 is more likely to stay true and is easier to adjust when needed.? What are your opinions on that?? I like the idea of 16" capacity going to the A3-41 but don't want headaches with adjustment.? I also am not experienced enough yet to know if I need 16" capacity.? It seems most of my glue up would be 12" or less so I can alternate the grain to keep flat.? I would really love some opinions before I buy.?
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On Jan 12, 2021, at 1:25 PM, richard_markham@... via groups.io <richard_markham@...> wrote: ?Success!
After spending a few days getting the tables co-planar and the planer blades all set to within a few 0.01mm, I planed my first bit of timber today.
The old BF6 cut perfectly! Smooth, square and snipe free.
Thanks for all your help and advice.
|
Success!
After spending a few days getting the tables co-planar and the planer blades all set to within a few 0.01mm, I planed my first bit of timber today.
The old BF6 cut perfectly! Smooth, square and snipe free.
Thanks for all your help and advice.
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Re: help pricing a used tool
Along the lines of what Joe said, the accessories will bring more separately but requires more investment of time. The flip side is that accessories can be a selling point for the one who appreciates the value. So there is a happy medium for both parties. So personally I would look for that buyer, if i don’t find such buyer then I would go similar route as Joe mentioned.
On the transaction side I have sold some expensive equipment thru craigslist. I was concerned with cash also due to counterfeit. My first sale ($800) I asked for driver’s license to protect myself, even though i was very sure that the buyer is fine. Since then, I have become more comfortable and the currency have improved. you can always buy the pen to double check, not sure how much it costs and if it is 100% effective.
It is funny that all 5 sales on the craigslist resulted in buyer coming with family (1 with a friend). I felt very good in all cases due to the conversations prior to the transaction. So not sure, if I have been just lucky.
Imran ?
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On Jan 12, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote: ?
Single phase for a 700 series brings a lot more resale than 3 phase.? Short sliders depress the value.? If one wanted to maximize the sales price, selling
some popular accessories separately would help.? Take the Aigner fence plates.? New $1800.? Used $1000 plus.? Added value on a single phase short slider FK700, probably not much as that’s an upgrade a garage shop hobbyist may not value.? The Felder angle cutting
attachments are another, and extra spindles and quality shaper cutters.? Most sell all as a package and I think that results in a big discount as most don’t desire all the same bits.? I buy and sell a lot on ebay, I have maybe 1000 transactions over ebay’s
life.? I’ve been cheated once on a small thing.? Garniga, Leitz, and insert cutters sell for 40-50% of new.
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Anthony Quesada
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 7:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [FOG] help pricing a used tool
?
About to start a year plus addition and renovation at the house/workshop which will require me to put my beloved KF700s into storage.? Despite loving this saw, I’ve been thinking that I would
eventually like to upgrade, so it may make sense to sell it now.? Would love some help with a few questions for those that have purchased or sold successfully.
?
Price:? Is there a good rule of thumb for pricing strategy? Percent of new? Other?
?
Location to sell:
craigslist, here, woodweb, anywhere else?
?
How do you deal with payment for such large items with likely distant buyer? I've done a fair bit of craigslist purchasing/selling
with cash payments but it has always been local buy/sell and cash only.? No idea how to protect myself and the buyer for this transaction and any feedback would be greatly appreciated. ?
?
The saw will shortly be placed in storage and not under power.? If you were buying such a saw, (beyond the normal photos),
what video/s would you want to see to show the saw is in great condition and performing properly since it won’t be operable in the coming weeks. ?
?
thanks so much,?
Anthony?
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Re: help pricing a used tool
Single phase for a 700 series brings a lot more resale than 3 phase.? Short sliders depress the value.? If one wanted to maximize the sales price, selling
some popular accessories separately would help.? Take the Aigner fence plates.? New $1800.? Used $1000 plus.? Added value on a single phase short slider FK700, probably not much as that’s an upgrade a garage shop hobbyist may not value.? The Felder angle cutting
attachments are another, and extra spindles and quality shaper cutters.? Most sell all as a package and I think that results in a big discount as most don’t desire all the same bits.? I buy and sell a lot on ebay, I have maybe 1000 transactions over ebay’s
life.? I’ve been cheated once on a small thing.? Garniga, Leitz, and insert cutters sell for 40-50% of new.
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Anthony Quesada
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 7:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [FOG] help pricing a used tool
?
About to start a year plus addition and renovation at the house/workshop which will require me to put my beloved KF700s into storage.? Despite loving this saw, I’ve been thinking that I would
eventually like to upgrade, so it may make sense to sell it now.? Would love some help with a few questions for those that have purchased or sold successfully.
?
Price:? Is there a good rule of thumb for pricing strategy? Percent of new? Other?
?
Location to sell:
craigslist, here, woodweb, anywhere else?
?
How do you deal with payment for such large items with likely distant buyer? I've done a fair bit of craigslist purchasing/selling
with cash payments but it has always been local buy/sell and cash only.? No idea how to protect myself and the buyer for this transaction and any feedback would be greatly appreciated. ?
?
The saw will shortly be placed in storage and not under power.? If you were buying such a saw, (beyond the normal photos),
what video/s would you want to see to show the saw is in great condition and performing properly since it won’t be operable in the coming weeks. ?
?
thanks so much,?
Anthony?
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Re: help pricing a used tool
Hey Anthony, thanks for bringing to my attention, I figured there was a company like that out there so love to hear that you had success with them. ?
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I used??when I bought my A3-31 from across the country.? I didn't have any issues with the transaction so I can't vouch at all for their assistance if it had been needed.
Anthony
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Re: help pricing a used tool
Mike,?
thanks for the really helpful feedback. ?I wouldn’t have thought of eBay local as an option, but that seems like a good idea. ?I am going through the photo and video process today and tomorrow and you pointed out some great ideas I hadn’t thought of, thank you. ?
I love this forum, but yes, it sure is a costly and slippery slope being introduced to so many incredible tools:)
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Anthony,
Perhaps add eBay to your sales ad for advertising and payment options with local pickup. I have purchased two Felder items from Craigslist where the seller was a contractor and accepted a business check and I accepted his word the machine was functioning without issue. We are in the same state and issued a bill of sale providing me recourse if there was an issue. Pricing was around 50% of new on a few year old saw with factors depressing the price likely being machine size and power requirements. Garage users in residential areas aren't generally going after 10' sliders requiring 3 phase power lowering demand. For a sought after smaller machine perhaps 65-80% would be reasonable and of course current replacement costs and long lead-times may help pull up the price. I have seen Felder equipment being sold used for the same price as a new one on special which baffles me but the lack of public pricing and sellers patience may pay off. Ask what you believe is fair and if you ultimately decide to put in storage be sure to protect the castings and bearing tracks including exposed blackened screws (Others here should have words of wisdom on how to best accomplish it).
Found this rather current discussion on buying a kF700.?
As for buyer reassurance photos I would suggest taking plenty of high resolution images from all exterior sides and off angles including inside the machine with the intention of showing any defects (not hiding anything) and giving the prospective purchaser a good feel of the actual machine without surprises. A video of startup and activating each feature including commentary of anything unexpected should serve you well in ensuring the buyer there are no hidden repair bills they will use to justify offering a lower price. Point out the bearings are clean and nick free for example. Take clean photos of the serial number and power requirements that show phase and machine age. Keep any compatible accessories for your future saw if you have plans that far out.
I'll be following this as well having an automatic dovetailing machine taking up space and who doesn't dream of getting a new slider....mine doesn't have the scoring blade auto rise or safety lights. This forum is going to be costly.
--
Mike B
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Re: help pricing a used tool
I used escrow.com when I bought my A3-31 from across the country.? I didn't have any issues with the transaction so I can't vouch at all for their assistance if it had been needed.
Anthony
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Re: Any pictures out there of aftermarket rip fence DRO installs?
#whysoexpensive
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Re: Any pictures out there of aftermarket rip fence DRO installs?
#whysoexpensive
Looks good, if you want, I can 3D print a housing for the display as I already have the 3D model for the housing we build for the DRO flipstop. You could bolt it right to the top of the fence housing. Shouldn’t cost too much, not a lot of plastic filament involved.
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Not being as creative as Mark in the moment and wanting an "OEM" look, I purchased the read strip and DRO from Brian Lamb and can attest it fits perfectly in the Felder extrusion on my K940s. The attached rectangular read head will fit through the existing hole in the fence casting with minor filing. At the time there was no time to complete the housing so duct tape it was. Ordered a few Felder parts and one of these days I'll make a filler piece to hold the display or 3D print the entire thing.?
<dro 2.jpg><dro 1.jpg>
--
Mike B
<dro 3.jpg>
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Re: help pricing a used tool
Anthony,
Perhaps add eBay to your sales ad for advertising and payment options with local pickup. I have purchased two Felder items from Craigslist where the seller was a contractor and accepted a business check and I accepted his word the machine was functioning without issue. We are in the same state and issued a bill of sale providing me recourse if there was an issue. Pricing was around 50% of new on a few year old saw with factors depressing the price likely being machine size and power requirements. Garage users in residential areas aren't generally going after 10' sliders requiring 3 phase power lowering demand. For a sought after smaller machine perhaps 65-80% would be reasonable and of course current replacement costs and long lead-times may help pull up the price. I have seen Felder equipment being sold used for the same price as a new one on special which baffles me but the lack of public pricing and sellers patience may pay off. Ask what you believe is fair and if you ultimately decide to put in storage be sure to protect the castings and bearing tracks including exposed blackened screws (Others here should have words of wisdom on how to best accomplish it).
Found this rather current discussion on buying a kF700.? https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?282674-Felder-KF700-took-the-plunge
As for buyer reassurance photos I would suggest taking plenty of high resolution images from all exterior sides and off angles including inside the machine with the intention of showing any defects (not hiding anything) and giving the prospective purchaser a good feel of the actual machine without surprises. A video of startup and activating each feature including commentary of anything unexpected should serve you well in ensuring the buyer there are no hidden repair bills they will use to justify offering a lower price. Point out the bearings are clean and nick free for example. Take clean photos of the serial number and power requirements that show phase and machine age. Keep any compatible accessories for your future saw if you have plans that far out.
I'll be following this as well having an automatic dovetailing machine taking up space and who doesn't dream of getting a new slider....mine doesn't have the scoring blade auto rise or safety lights. This forum is going to be costly.
--
Mike B
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Re: Any pictures out there of aftermarket rip fence DRO installs?
#whysoexpensive
Not being as creative as Mark in the moment and wanting an "OEM" look, I purchased the read strip and DRO from Brian Lamb and can attest it fits perfectly in the Felder extrusion on my K940s. The attached rectangular read head will fit through the existing hole in the fence casting with minor filing. At the time there was no time to complete the housing so duct tape it was. Ordered a few Felder parts and one of these days I'll make a filler piece to hold the display or 3D print the entire thing.?   -- Mike B
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Jeff
Tom Gensmer
JP Rice
Bill Belanger
imran
Joe Jensen
