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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI don¡¯t know the engineering but have used the high speed router spindle with router bits and have not had any issues ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe Jensen
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 12:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Eric Janson ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýwould be interesting to put the data points from the 4 graphs to see if the relationship is linear. If so we can easily extrapolate if fir router use. Imran On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:35 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? My machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s <image0.jpeg> lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage. There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b <image1.jpeg> I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle? Imran On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote: ?
Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMy machine has generic guide that is based upon recommended feed rate between 40 & 70m/s lower feed rate than 40m/s can result in kickback and higher than 75m/s can cause damage to tooling not to mention excessive wear if the tool continues to run w/o damage. There is a graph in the manual that further refined this with inclusion of cutter length b I know this does not cover router spindle. Has anyone seen a graph like above from Felder for router spindle? Imran On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote:
?
Not meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýNot meant to be sarcastic¡I read all the time that 15,000 is too slow for small bits.? Is there engineering behind this?? Seems like RPM and feed rate and chip removal are related.? Higher RPM allows for a faster feed rate. But also if the feed rate is too low relative to the RPM you get poor results.? For commercial cutters for the shaper you often get given the ideal RPM/Feed rate.? ? I have not used my router inverted in a table since getting my Felder early 2010.? The router spindle with my machine was rated for 19,000 rpm continuously, and for up to 23,000 RPM for short use with higher bearing wear.? I¡¯ve tried small bits at 15,000, 19,000, and 23,000 RPM and not noticed any difference. ? Could be that single speed routers all ran at a nominal 22,000-23,000 with no load and bigger bits were a problem with vibration.? So then when router bits west big they made variable speed routers to slow them down for big bits and maybe that¡¯s where ¡°you need 22,000 RPM to run small bits¡± wisdom arose? ? Also, ever notice how with a very light cut at 22K RPM with pitch is high and as soon as you load the router down the pitch lowers a lot? What RPM is the motor actually running at under load?? With my 4kw shaper motor my 15K RPM spindle doesn¡¯t slow at all.? I would not be surprised at all to see that under load routers slow down a lot. ? So, does anyone have science or engineering on the Intrawebs wisdom that says 15,000 RPM is too slow? ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Eric Janson
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111 ? This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric ? On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Felder High Speed Router Spindle 424-111
This spindle works at 15,000 rpm, so for smaller- diameter router bits the cutting edge speed is kind of low. For larger bits and deeper cuts, it works great, having many HP behind it, and is as close to totally?vibration- free as you are going to get. Changing spindles is not difficult, but changing back and forth is a pain, so my cast- iron router table is my go- to for that sort of work unless I feel I really need what the Felder spindle brings. Cheers Eric On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: Machinery Choice and Workshop Layout
how it is setup now, I cant pull it all the way back but it will allow me to cut 8x4 sheet. 3200 will be fine, I got this 3800mm slider cos it was a factory shutdown auction. otherwise I would have settled for something no bigger than 2500mm. I dont need the lengths beyond 2500mm.
You could place the bandsaw like how I placed mine, nicely tucked in the dead zone behind the panel saw.? not to mention my extractor takes out a fairly big chunk of space in the workshop!? |
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Re: Easy-Lock & Quick-Lock
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWowzers, they are really over thinking it. Appears Felder engineers have too much time on their hands. Imran On Dec 26, 2020, at 10:40 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
?The ¡°short leg¡± is what Felder intends to be the ¡°leveling leg.¡± ?This is Austrian engineering at it¡¯s finest. ?Felder anticipates that many people will not be adding leveling feet to all four corners, ?and will probably have the machine just sitting squat on the floor. ?On an uneven floor, that would mean three points would be on the floor, the 4th point would not. ?So they purposely shortened one leg with the expectation that it would be jacked up to ensure the machine doesn¡¯t rock and tilt. ?My Kappa came with one leveling foot for that purpose. ?It is the case that if the floor is dead flat, the machine will rock about if the leveling foot isn¡¯t installed - I tested that bit. David Best https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Re: Easy-Lock & Quick-Lock
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThe ¡°short leg¡± is what Felder intends to be the ¡°leveling leg.¡± ?This is Austrian engineering at it¡¯s finest. ?Felder anticipates that many people will not be adding leveling feet to all four corners, ?and will probably have the machine just sitting squat on the floor. ?On an uneven floor, that would mean three points would be on the floor, the 4th point would not. ?So they purposely shortened one leg with the expectation that it would be jacked up to ensure the machine doesn¡¯t rock and tilt. ?My Kappa came with one leveling foot for that purpose. ?It is the case that if the floor is dead flat, the machine will rock about if the leveling foot isn¡¯t installed - I tested that bit.David Best https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Re: Easy-Lock & Quick-Lock
On Sat, Dec 26, 2020 at 06:36 PM, Shinta Wakahisa wrote:
Both the A951L and D963 have a shorter corner and come with an adjusting screw already installed to level the machine.?Does this help in moving the machine? i.e. getting a pallet jack under which otherwise be too wide? Imran |
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Re: Christmas project
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMarlowe, Nicely done. Imran On Dec 26, 2020, at 7:03 PM, Marlowe McGraw <marlomcgraw@...> wrote:
?Hello all, I found a Viking propane 4 burner plus grill range top on craigslist.? ?Given that this will be our fuel at our new house construction,? I bought it as the first outdoor kitchen item. I kept the build secret, saying only that I was doing elf work... The primary wood is teak, with walnut floor pieces and mahogany structure.? ?Screws were stainless and silicone bronze.? The floor pieces were just laid in and the handles (bolivian rosewood) were rough and hot glued on because the elf was behind schedule... <IMG_9950.jpg> <IMG_9952.jpg> <IMG_9949.jpg> |
imran
Joe Jensen
Albert Lee
David P. Best