Anyone ever have an issue with their cutter head not coming off the shaft of the shaper? ?My rebate cutter seems to be stuck on the shaft, and won’t budget. ?Anyone have a trick to get it off? ?It’s a 30mm shaft, the head is a Hammer Rebate Cutter 501-04-007.
Also having a start issue with green push button for the circular saw on my sliding table saw, it won’t turn the saw on. ?The green push button on the machine works fine, and starts the circular saw. ?Any thoughts?
Thanks Carmen
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i am not sure what you mean by, “The inner blade has two sets of pin holes so that it can be used with chippers or just with the outer blade”
are the two sets of pin holes for the purpose of meshing teeth differently?
Imran, yes, those additional set of pin holes are so the teeth from different blades don't hit each other.? Each individual chipper is setup with the pin holes in a different "rotation" compared to where the teeth are, which means the teeth will always come out offset from one another no matter which order you put the blades on the arbor.? The outer blade only has one set of pin holes, and it's setup so the teeth from any chipper won't interfere with the teeth on the outer blade.? The inner blade however has two sets of pin holes: One set lines up correctly with just the outer blade (i.e. 1/4" total kerf), while the other set lines up correctly with any chipper.? It's a nice solution.
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Steve,
thanks for detail like the 180mm limit on K3. that limits options as you stated. i am not sure what you mean by, “The inner blade has two sets of pin holes so that it can be used with chippers or just with the outer blade”
are the two sets of pin holes for the purpose of meshing teeth differently?
i recently got my first dado and got a big of education along with, i imagine, a similar question about installation. the inner and outer blades are seemingly identical. however, mine have a difference that may not be readily obvious or not present on your set. the tooth bevel profile is how i determined which of the two outer blades goes on first. incredibly they do not mention this anywhere - well they do but did not help, explained later.
this picture illustrates how my blades go. the inner and outer blades have opposing bevel.
i imagine the shoulder would not be as clean if the two outer blades are swapped in my set.
in my set each part does have a number printed but they do not match the documentation. so i take it back that they do not tell you which is which but the only clue was tooth bevel as numbers do not match. here is a closeup of my notes. in fact i have 3 different chippers whereas the documentation only shows two. also chippers are not two wing, they are circular with 4 teeth.
funny, i thought i will just measure the kerf but since blades and chippers overlap (thus allowing for shims) it is not obvious what width you will get other than actually using them. they do provide a stacking table but i have more options due to the extra chipper with different kerf (i assume it is 3/32” as most sets do now). i hope other dados come with better documentation. but since i paid $260 vs $400 i can happily live with these discrepancies ?
CMT calls it ATB-FTG (flat ground) tooth profile, i guess since you are always using the two outer blades it does equate to ATB but individual blade is not ATB.
sorry for rambling on but this type of info would have been helpful for me a month or do ago so i hope someone will find it useful.
Imran
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On Oct 15, 2020, at 4:08 AM, Steve Wurster <steven.m.wurster@...> wrote: ?I have the 6" Forrest Dado King for my K3.? I bought it from Slivers Mill.? I have nothing to compare it to, at least not on this saw.
It's a nice set with good "weight" and a good chunk of carbide for each tooth.? The inner blade has two sets of pin holes so that it can be used with chippers or just with the outer blade, but unfortunately it's not marked which set is which so you have to figure that out before you install it.? Or put the blade on and then realize it's in the wrong orientation and slide it back out to change it.? The set isn't perfect in terms of dead-flat dados, but it's pretty good.? I cannot remember what the bat ears are like with this set though.
The K3 has a maximum dado blade width of 180mm, so you are limited to 6" dado blades and therefore also pretty limited in total cutting height when using a dado.
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
I bought a 5 hp VFD from Jack Forsberg for $335. ?His support guy walked me through wiring it to my oscillating edge sander and it works great!
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On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:41 AM, TJ Cornish < tj@...> wrote:
I chatted with the Automation Direct tech support guy about this and he suggested cranking the decel time down until the drive complains. Mine seems to not throw an error message; it just does what it can handle silently. Other models may throw an overcurrent error if you are too aggressive. ? A semi-related tangent – early on in my saga with this saw I was told it was 5 HP, so I spent some time researching VFDs of that size. Up to 3HP is trivial and inexpensive for single-phase input – there are a bunch of drives that can do it for $300 or less. North of 3 HP the price goes up a lot. To do it by the book, a single-phase in VFD that can handle 5 HP was $1000. ? Most 3-phase in drives can run with only two input phases powered, but you need to derate the drive by some amount, and in most cases by more than the 33% of the lost input phase. The $1000 VFD mentioned above is I believe a 15HP rated drive with all 3 input phases powered. The tech I spoke to said that you might be able to get by with a smaller drive than what’s officially supported for 1 in/3 out, but you’re on your own. As my saw turned out to be 2HP, that was moot for me, and I’m happily in the cheap VFD zone, though I would have happily paid up if the motor was bigger. ? that is good info. i have never explored braking on the VFD that runs my RL125 but i believe it works the same way and supports ext. braking resistor. just curious, how does your VFD communicate if internal braking is not sufficient? just by braking time, i.e., it self protects?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:56 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?? The VFD does indeed provide internal braking, up to the current limit of the switching devices. Without the internal braking it takes maybe 50 or 60 seconds to wind down. A braking resistor in theory would allow me to stop even faster and the Weg VFD I chose supports it, but I didn’t want to spend the money or enclosure space. ? The wheels are cast aluminum. ? considering the size, i am surprised with 7 sec stop time without braking. does it have CI wheels?
On Oct 14, 2020, at 7:28 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
? Also, I agonized about using a braking resistor, but after doing a mockup and playing with deceleration time in the drive, I found that the drive can stop the wheels in about 7 seconds without an external sink, and I thought that was good enough. The saw does have a mechanical brake as well if I need it. ? On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:20 AM, TJ Cornish via??<tj@...> wrote:
?Thanks all for the feedback.
The parts are from Automation Direct. My constraint was that I didn't want to exceed the existing footprint of the saw with a big VFD enclosure, and the logical place to mount it was under the motor. That limited me to about a 10" wide x 6" deep box. I ended up using a 10x10x6, but if I could do it again, I would get a 10x14x6 or so - that extra couple inches would have made cramming all the stuff inside a lot easier.
I used a Weg 3HP VFD (my saw is 2HP, so I upsized in case I ever replace the motor) which is pretty compact. My shop is in my house and I have trouble with VFDs tripping my arc-fault breakers, so I put in an input EMI filter to keep the saw from causing problems in my house. The enclosure also has a 25A disconnect switch, a pilot light, and a 12v power supply. I wanted to do remote speed control and programming, so I opted for the remote display, which is what required the 12v supply.
The controls are 22m buttons from Automation Direct. These are pretty cookie-cutter parts. The VFD is setup to run in a 3-wire mode with a normally open start switch going to one digital input and a normally closed stop switch going to another one. The knob on my control panel controls the speed from about 3Hz to 66Hz, which gives me a range of very slow for setting blade tracking up to about 5000fpm if I overspeed my 900RPM motor slightly (slightly meaning 10% to about 1000RPM).
The enclosure was heavily modified to get all the stuff in plus cooling. I have a Bridgeport that I did most of the drilling and cutting on, however I confess I cut a couple corners in the interest of time and due to the awkwardness of clamping something as wobbly and large as this box, so the rear louver cutout and the drilled cooling hole pattern on the bottom aren't exactly machinery-tolerance.
The airflow of the VFD is bottom to top. I don't like top-mounted vents, so I drilled a bunch of intake holes at the bottom of the enclosure and the air exits the louvered vent out the back.
Most of the disconnect switches like this use remote handles and are shaft driven. I mounted the disconnect itself where it had to go in the box and then carefully measured where to drill the door for the handle.
To mount the user controls I got a piece of steel plate and drilled through the back of the saw housing. The blade guard slides up and down on the side, so I couldn't mount it there. The user control box is a 6x6x4 Hubbell-Weigmann enclosure. I made a custom faceplate for the buttons and VFD screen and had to hog out two sides of the 6x6 box to get stuff to fit, but I'm happy with how that turned out.
For some reason my saw had a strange slot milled perpendicular to the blade. Northfield has no idea what that was for and is sure they didn't do it. I machined an aluminum slug to fill that in.
If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a BOM of what I used.?
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I'm currently looking at dado blades for my K3 as well, so very interested in the replies here :)
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Regards,
Mikkel
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I have the 6" Forrest Dado King for my K3.? I bought it from Slivers Mill.? I have nothing to compare it to, at least not on this saw.
It's a nice set with good "weight" and a good chunk of carbide for each tooth.? The inner blade has two sets of pin holes so that it can be used with chippers or just with the outer blade, but unfortunately it's not marked which set is which so you have to figure that out before you install it.? Or put the blade on and then realize it's in the wrong orientation and slide it back out to change it.? The set isn't perfect in terms of dead-flat dados, but it's pretty good.? I cannot remember what the bat ears are like with this set though.
The K3 has a maximum dado blade width of 180mm, so you are limited to 6" dado blades and therefore also pretty limited in total cutting height when using a dado.
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I think? you need to consider the furniture? from which the?
trunnion depends.? Those brass pieces are in the way? of anything
over? I think it's? 7 .5 inches.? or something like that.
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Any opinions on Felder vs Forrest dado blades for use on a K3 saw?
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upland woods,
if you only require a 30mm bore and no pin holes, see following msg for an inexpensive option. it is nearly 1/2 off on sale.
it has ATB profile with a raker that is as high as ATB points, so no dog ears. negative rake minimizes chip out. here is the worst bottom i got, in ply.
imran
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On Oct 14, 2020, at 6:07 PM, uplandwoods@... wrote: ?Any opinions on Felder vs Forrest dado blades for use on a K3 saw?
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I thoroughly enjoy shaper style cutters for dados, Felder is one of those. There is a slight cut beyond the flat which prevents tearout but I’ve never had a flatter bottom of my dados. The replaceable and turnable
carbide more than overcomes that for me. I’m a little scared of anything coming out from resharpening and maintaining very tight tolerances.
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
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I have not had used either, I have the Ridge Carbide and it is excellent and the service from them is great. I can also tell you that the “bat ears” are less on the Ridge Carbide set than the Forrest which is the reason I bought it.
On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:07 PM, uplandwoods@... wrote:
?Any opinions on Felder vs Forrest dado blades for use on a K3 saw?
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I have not had used either, I have the Ridge Carbide and it is excellent and the service from them is great. I can also tell you that the “bat ears” are less on the Ridge Carbide set than the Forrest which is the reason I bought it.
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On Oct 14, 2020, at 9:07 PM, uplandwoods@... wrote:
?Any opinions on Felder vs Forrest dado blades for use on a K3 saw?
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Any opinions on Felder vs Forrest dado blades for use on a K3 saw?
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
I'd machine a bar if you want to use the cast iron table.? The tables are pretty small.? When I had an LT 18, I made a larger table, used the slot with a filler strip to align the new table and put a standard slot in that.? For a miter guage it is nice to have
extra table for support.? The type of gauge isn't as important because you don't get precision from a bandsaw.? An Incra is overkill.? Dave
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Both Incra and Osborne have a US standard slot bar that I would have to machine down to fit the Felder 15x4 slot. I may have to do that. I am hoping someone has a Felder mitre fence laying around unused.
John H
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
Both Incra and Osborne have a US standard slot bar that I would have to machine down to fit the Felder 15x4 slot. I may have to do that. I am hoping someone has a Felder mitre fence laying around unused.
John H
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Re: implementing variable frequency drives
I have a VFD wired to my SCM wide belt sander.
I hired an industrial electrician to wire it up.?
my VFD is a Danfoss VLT2800, it is rated 38amp, my big sander FLC is 38 amp. not ideal but so far so good.?
I bought the sander second hand, the VFD cost more than how much I paid for the sander.?
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I put mine in the walkable attic space, glad I did the noise is annoying to me and I haven’t even heard it with the fans on yet with the door closed I barely hear it. Max air temp in my attic has been around 90f-100f for just a month or two, PP told my that it would be fine up there.
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On Oct 14, 2020, at 3:50 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?I should perhaps add that the high-pitched noise doesn't bother most people.? ?In fact, the pitch is higher than many people can even hear.? It's not loud, probably 50dB at 5' away.? ?Any other noise will drown it out.? But my shop is pretty much silent if I don't have something running, and I find the buzz annoying.? ?It's been discussed here on FOG a few times over the years, and it's a very small minority of Phase Perfect owners who notice or care.? It also has a small fan that's not super quiet, but doesn't run very much, though it depends on demand and ambient temp.? ??The PP doesn't use much power and will not add measurable heat.
I suggest you wait till you get it, then fire it up and see what you think about the sound, then decide where to put it.
Yes, if you use a breaker as a daily switch, it may wear out "prematurely" in 20-30 years (10,000 cycles is a typical rating I think)
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I should perhaps add that the high-pitched noise doesn't bother most people.? ?In fact, the pitch is higher than many people can even hear.? It's not loud, probably 50dB at 5' away.? ?Any other noise will drown it out.? But my shop is pretty much silent if I don't have something running, and I find the buzz annoying.? ?It's been discussed here on FOG a few times over the years, and it's a very small minority of Phase Perfect owners who notice or care.? It also has a small fan that's not super quiet, but doesn't run very much, though it depends on demand and ambient temp.? ??The PP doesn't use much power and will not add measurable heat.
I suggest you wait till you get it, then fire it up and see what you think about the sound, then decide where to put it.
Yes, if you use a breaker as a daily switch, it may wear out "prematurely" in 20-30 years (10,000 cycles is a typical rating I think)
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Re: implementing variable frequency drives
VFDs aren’t rocket science, but there are a few things to know:
?
- VFDs can’t be used as a generic phase converter doing more than one thing; they can only be used for a single motor.
- You cannot use a switch between the VFD and the motor. Any machine switches that you wish to continue to use must be rewired to become control inputs to the VFD.
- Machines with multiple motors require multiple VFDs, which can get expensive and complicated, as Patrick noted.
- Large motors can be expensive to power via single phase input as you need to significantly oversize the VFD if its fed from only single phase power. 0-3 HP is cheap. 3 – 15 HP is expensive
but possible. More than 15HP is going to be tough.
- The VFD will require some programming to setup for your application. It’s not too daunting, but you need to be able to read a manual and know what you are trying to do.
- VFDs – especially in a wood shop, really should be enclosed in something to keep the dust out (with ventilation, of course), and ideally you would switch power coming into the VFD,
which means you may end up building an electrical assembly to make it all happen. You can read in my band saw thread earlier today to see what I did.
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Automation Direct has a lot of VFDs you can browse through, and a number of them have application guides where you can get an idea of how they go together.
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Hi,? because I power my entire modest shop's 11? three phase machines with 2 Phase Technology converters (without any issues), and looking to expand a bit,? ?cutting down on power-on surge requirements of things like dust collectors? has
become more important.
Can you guys recommend a primer or tutorial? on selecting and? purchasing? a VFD?? ?I've wired my own shops entirely for 30 years in the dust making business, but have never dabbled with VFDs or their caveats.
Thanks,
Anton Stayduhar
New York
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Re: Looking for a band saw the size of a Minimax 16/Felder FB510 or so in the upper Midwest
#Bandsaw
If I was going to buy a miter fence for a bandsaw I would look to aftermarket, Incra or Osborn.
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So, the Felder 540 that Patrick Kane mentioned has ended up in my garage (thank you Patrick, it is a very nice machine). However, the saw did not come with a mitre fence, which uses a 15mmx4mm table slot. Does anyone have an extra mitre fence they would sell?
John H
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Re: implementing variable frequency drives
Hey Anton,
I’m no expert, but I have two three phase machines running off VFDs(each 5.5hp) and for 11 machines there are absolutely more economical means of converting power. On the low end, that will be $2500 in VFDs for your machines if they are all 2-3hp, and up to $5000+ if they are 5hp+. Not to mention all the time wiring and programming the VFDs to each specific machine. Why not go with a Phase Perfect at that point? Personally, I think VFDs are extremely attractive for converting 1-2 machines. They become an expensive means of conversion when you have 11+ motors to run. Things like a planer might have three separate motors you need to wire to three separate VFDs.?
Patrick?
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:13 PM anton Stayduhar < antons@...> wrote: Hi,? because I power my entire modest shop's 11? three phase machines with 2 Phase Technology converters (without any issues), and looking to expand a bit,? ?cutting down on power-on surge requirements of things like dust collectors? has become more important.
Can you guys recommend a primer or tutorial? on selecting and? purchasing? a VFD?? ?I've wired my own shops entirely for 30 years in the dust making business, but have never dabbled with VFDs or their caveats.
Thanks,
Anton Stayduhar
New York
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The thought behind putting it outside had to do with noise/sound (as Mark mentioned), and to thermal performance (would it heat up the Shop when running with a load?). Based on Mark's comment about high pitched sound, I'd be inclined to spend the extra dollars to get the Outdoor enclosure.?
Mark, regarding the switch, that's good to know that it doesn't cut power to the unit. My electrician told me that cycling a breaker every day would prematurely wear it out, so the intent with the switch would be to eliminate the passive draw when I'm not using the converter.....?
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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imran
Albert Lee
Mark Foster
Tom Gensmer