Felder-grade wooden joint
Good evening,
So I have a project I¡¯m trying to complete, and Im nearing the end and am looking for opinions.
I need to make a 90 degree joint, approx 3¡±x3¡± timbers of whatever I please.
I intend the ¡°leg¡± to extend 30-36¡±, and anticipate 250-350 lbs static load at the 16¡± point-ish.
I was thinking of 1/2¡± plies Bridled, and would consider going to 1/4¡± to get more glueing surface of it seems like it is needed.
Pic of assembly and close up of proposed joint.
Should I quit being silly and just sandwich a 1/4¡± steel L in there running 12¡± each way?
Why ¡°felder grade¡±, well this is the felder group, y¡¯all seem really bright, and I can¡¯t lead with ¡°so I¡¯m finishing up the elevator in my shop¡±...
Thanks for the advice,
Brian
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Bill, If my ceilings were 10 or 12 feet I would probably have gone that route, but at 16 feet and my hate of ladders, for me it seemed like the way to go and it worked well. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:59 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: So Glen, you never tried one piece at a time?
Bill Belanger? Joe, This is how I did it. I spent a lot of time laying it out on paper, pin pointing my exact location drops. After many layouts when I found the best one I ordered the parts. While waiting for delivery I layed out my plan on the shop floor with a marker. Then using my laser I shot up all the lines and hung the threaded rod. When it all arrived I pre assembled everything on the floor and cut all the pieces. I hung pulleys above each section and my friend came over and we hoisted up 20n to thirty foot sections. I went very well limited ladder work and all done in a day. However 30 ft of NordFab at a time was way heavier than I thought. It all worked out great. Last thing i wanted to do is to try to take measurements, cut pieces, and try and clamp all those connectors 16 feet off the ground. If I ever had to do it again and I will for the addition, I will do it the same way. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop:
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:25 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger? On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
I wasted a lot of time planning how to deal with DC noise when I was putting my shop together. I live in snow country and a heated shop is the priority. Come to find out I did waste a lot of time thinking about it, as I cant hear my DC running because the machines are louder and I get some heat off the DC and it circulates the shop air heat from the wood stove. All worked out fine. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:54 PM mark thomas < murkyd@...> wrote: Of course you don¡¯t want to pay a lot of money to condition air and then blow it all outside.? But it depends on climate and how much you use it.? Obviously in a professional?shop running 8 hours a day in snow country,? blowing outside seems impractical.? ?But a hobbyist running a cyclone intermittently in a moderate climate is not going to see a significant impact on air conditioning bill. Once upon a time, I had an Oneida inside my shop.? Several years ago, I built a "lean-to" shed behind the shop, I removed a window in the back to allow the room for the duct work to get to the dust collector and air can return.? I looked up the pros and cons of exhausting to the outside with a seal.? I keep my shop climate controlled and it was my understanding that when you suck air out that is not good for air conditioning.? By having an opening, that allows the well insulated shed to be climate controlled.? Sure, there would be less noise if totally isolated, and I very much like quiet when it comes to noice from things like air compressors and dust collectors, but for me, noise is not a problem.? If I had a very noisy dust collector, that would be different. Fortunately, my dust collector is extremely quiet. ?
I have been very happy with my shed.? I "bought" space inside the shop.? I do think it is a bit quieter being back there even though there is a connection, and it is setup where there are larger "French" doors in the back so when it is time to empty the dust bins, I wheel the green waste cans to the door, and empty them where if any dust gets on the concrete outside, no problem.? Dust in the air blows away.
Anyhow, just some feedback. ?
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
So Glen, you never tried one piece at a time?
Bill Belanger?
Joe, This is how I did it. I spent a lot of time laying it out on paper, pin pointing my exact location drops. After many layouts when I found the best one I ordered the parts. While waiting for delivery I layed out my plan on the shop floor with a marker. Then using my laser I shot up all the lines and hung the threaded rod. When it all arrived I pre assembled everything on the floor and cut all the pieces. I hung pulleys above each section and my friend came over and we hoisted up 20n to thirty foot sections. I went very well limited ladder work and all done in a day. However 30 ft of NordFab at a time was way heavier than I thought. It all worked out great. Last thing i wanted to do is to try to take measurements, cut pieces, and try and clamp all those connectors 16 feet off the ground. If I ever had to do it again and I will for the addition, I will do it the same way. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop:
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:25 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger? On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Joe, This is how I did it. I spent a lot of time laying it out on paper, pin pointing my exact location drops. After many layouts when I found the best one I ordered the parts. While waiting for delivery I layed out my plan on the shop floor with a marker. Then using my laser I shot up all the lines and hung the threaded rod. When it all arrived I pre assembled everything on the floor and cut all the pieces. I hung pulleys above each section and my friend came over and we hoisted up 20n to thirty foot sections. I went very well limited ladder work and all done in a day. However 30 ft of NordFab at a time was way heavier than I thought. It all worked out great. Last thing i wanted to do is to try to take measurements, cut pieces, and try and clamp all those connectors 16 feet off the ground. If I ever had to do it again and I will for the addition, I will do it the same way. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:25 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger? On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Of course you don¡¯t want to pay a lot of money to condition air and then blow it all outside.? But it depends on climate and how much you use it.? Obviously in a professional?shop running 8 hours a day in snow country,? blowing outside seems impractical.? ?But a hobbyist running a cyclone intermittently in a moderate climate is not going to see a significant impact on air conditioning bill.
Once upon a time, I had an Oneida inside my shop.? Several years ago, I built a "lean-to" shed behind the shop, I removed a window in the back to allow the room for the duct work to get to the dust collector and air can return.? I looked up the pros and cons of exhausting to the outside with a seal.? I keep my shop climate controlled and it was my understanding that when you suck air out that is not good for air conditioning.? By having an opening, that allows the well insulated shed to be climate controlled.? Sure, there would be less noise if totally isolated, and I very much like quiet when it comes to noice from things like air compressors and dust collectors, but for me, noise is not a problem.? If I had a very noisy dust collector, that would be different. Fortunately, my dust collector is extremely quiet. ?
I have been very happy with my shed.? I "bought" space inside the shop.? I do think it is a bit quieter being back there even though there is a connection, and it is setup where there are larger "French" doors in the back so when it is time to empty the dust bins, I wheel the green waste cans to the door, and empty them where if any dust gets on the concrete outside, no problem.? Dust in the air blows away.
Anyhow, just some feedback. ?
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger?
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Removing Uncured Shellac
The problem should not be wax in the shellac because Zinser Bullseye is dewaxed. ? ? ?Jim ? ??
James H. Fleming
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier. -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Once upon a time, I had an Oneida inside my shop. ?Several years ago, I built a "lean-to" shed behind the shop, I removed a window in the back to allow the room for the duct work to get to the dust collector and air can return. ?I looked up the pros and cons of exhausting to the outside with a seal. ?I keep my shop climate controlled and it was my understanding that when you suck air out that is not good for air conditioning. ?By having an opening, that allows the well insulated shed to be climate controlled. ?Sure, there would be less noise if totally isolated, and I very much like quiet when it comes to noice from things like air compressors and dust collectors, but for me, noise is not a problem. ?If I had a very noisy dust collector, that would be different. Fortunately, my dust collector is extremely quiet. ?
I have been very happy with my shed. ?I "bought" space inside the shop. ?I do think it is a bit quieter being back there even though there is a connection, and it is setup where there are larger "French" doors in the back so when it is time to empty the dust bins, I wheel the green waste cans to the door, and empty them where if any dust gets on the concrete outside, no problem. ?Dust in the air blows away.
Anyhow, just some feedback. ?
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
My closet cut about 10dB.? ?There is huge difference between 76 and 86 dB of course, and if you want to work without ear protection, a closet will will?get?you there.? Not silent by any stretch, but comfortable.
Yes on the STC specs.? I¡¯m not worried about the frequencies below 125hz, at least to my ears they are 1Khz and higher.? The collector is supposed to
be only 86db but I find it annoying.?
?
Maybe I¡¯ll hold off for a while, still need to install the duct work.
?
Anyone have advice on holding two pieces of Nordfab and snapping the clamp on? Seems like a two person job?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of mark thomas
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 3:03 PM
To: Felder Owner Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Building a closet for dust collector
?
Acoustic engineers sometimes cite water as a metaphor for sound to make the point that is leaks through the smallest and most permeable points.? An elaborate wall assembly can be rendered nearly useless by small details, like door seals,
wall-to-ceiling joints, ceiling transmission pathways, etc.? If you want to get more thorough i your research than just the STC ratings of walls, there's tons of discussions on home recording studio forums.??
Also note that sound mitigation methods are?highly sensitive to frequency.? The STC rating is for speech frequencies.? As it says on the STC website you mention:
"The STC rating is based on performance with frequencies from 125 to 4000 Hertz (the speech frequencies).
The rating provides no evaluation of the barrier's ability to block low frequency noise, such as the bass in music or the noise of some mechanical equipment"??
I originally put my cyclone in a cabinet somewhat like what you describe -- double drywall, green glues, etc.? After a move, I delayed re-building it and ultimately never got around to it.? The benefits didn't seem worth the effort.? I
only use the cyclone when machines are running, and most machines are louder than the cyclone, and silencing the cyclone is pointless in this situation.?
?
I¡¯m managing a remodel project just now where I¡¯ve specified the?KINETICS?IsoMax system between bedrooms, media room, ceilings, etc. ? This is basically putting the equivalent of a metal stud horizontally over the wood studded wall, and
the horizontal metal drywall hanger is itself attached to the stud with a rubber-isolating clip. ? I wonder how this will compare to your alternatives. ? ??
?
?
?
Hi all, the journey of building out the new shop continues.? I am now planning a closet to house the cyclone dust collector.? Being an engineer, I have to research everything.? I found a fantastic website with data on different wall construction and the
STC (sound transmission coeff) for each.
I had been planning to do 2x6 plates and staggered 2x4 studs.? From the data at the site I was surprised at a couple of things.? First, steel studs are meaningfully better the wood studs.? Second if building two walls, having drywall only on the two exterior
sides is better than having drywall sides of the studs facing inside the double wall.??
I have decided to do double steel stud walls with 2 1/2" steel studs.? I think I want 20 gauge and not the cheaper 25 gauge. any input on that?
I will install 5/8" drywall inside, a layer of green glue, and a second layer of 5/8" drywall over that and then 5/8" drywall outside. If not quiet enough I will install green glue and a second layer of 5/8" drywall outside.
I need a door to access the drum and a door to access the filters.? I am fairly certain I will do some sort of stress skin construction for the doors.
Any suggestions on how to get the dust inlet sealed to the sound proof wall?? I am doing a folded duct with 5X the cross sectional area of the exhaust port for flow the air conditioned air back into the room.
?
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Re: Building a closet for dust collector
If you're lucky enough to live where you can exhaust outdoors, that's the ultimate "silencer".? It's also improves flow and eliminates filters.? ?
Mine exhausts thru?roof, pointed about 30¡ã from horizontal away from my close neighbor.? You might be surprised at how tolerable the noise is.? None of my neighbors have ever even commented on it.? It's a very low-pitched sound and when blowing into open air dissipates very fast, unlike when blowing into a shop where it reverberates around.??
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 4:41 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: I have the silencer on my Oneida, it helps a little, but not a lot.
Brett, that would be a lot easier.? The collector is a bastard modified Oneida.? It¡¯s basically their current 5HP Smart collector with one large HEPA
filter.? I am going to modify again to double the filter area.? There is a small Onieda silencer inside the current filter mount.? Maybe a longer one before the filters is the right answer.? It¡¯s really just the noise from the output I¡¯d like to quiet.? How
effective are the silencers? I suspect they disrupt the airflow, maybe put a larger diameter in and then split to dual 8¡± outputs? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brett Wissel
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 3:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Building a closet for dust collector ?
Joe, understand the context better, thanks. With your added info, maybe also something along the lines of an inline muffler/silencer on the exhaust side is worth?trying. We used to use them for vent fans and compressed air exhaust for the
rock drills? in mining and they worked great, though did need cleaning they seldom received?from dust and diesel particulate collecting .?
?
I've been using this collector in my 3 car garage shop for years.? I do a lot that is not noisy enough to require ear muffs. The noise mostly comes from the exhaust and it's my understanding that forcing the exhaust to make a 90 degree
turn or 180 degrees of turn reduces the noise a lot.??
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
I have the silencer on my Oneida, it helps a little, but not a lot.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Brett, that would be a lot easier.? The collector is a bastard modified Oneida.? It¡¯s basically their current 5HP Smart collector with one large HEPA
filter.? I am going to modify again to double the filter area.? There is a small Onieda silencer inside the current filter mount.? Maybe a longer one before the filters is the right answer.? It¡¯s really just the noise from the output I¡¯d like to quiet.? How
effective are the silencers? I suspect they disrupt the airflow, maybe put a larger diameter in and then split to dual 8¡± outputs? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brett Wissel
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 3:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Building a closet for dust collector ?
Joe, understand the context better, thanks. With your added info, maybe also something along the lines of an inline muffler/silencer on the exhaust side is worth?trying. We used to use them for vent fans and compressed air exhaust for the
rock drills? in mining and they worked great, though did need cleaning they seldom received?from dust and diesel particulate collecting .?
?
I've been using this collector in my 3 car garage shop for years.? I do a lot that is not noisy enough to require ear muffs. The noise mostly comes from the exhaust and it's my understanding that forcing the exhaust to make a 90 degree
turn or 180 degrees of turn reduces the noise a lot.??
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Line the exhaust baffles with sound deadening foam and it will really cut down the noise transmission. Did that on a air handler that was in a closet close to a living room and the difference was amazing.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I've been using this collector in my 3 car garage shop for years.? I do a lot that is not noisy enough to require ear muffs. The noise mostly comes from the exhaust and it's my understanding that forcing the exhaust to make a 90 degree turn or 180 degrees of turn reduces the noise a lot.??
|
Brett,
I was just kidding, not really putting the product down. My shop door have MDO for exterior cladding and are doing just fine after 18 yrs. Although, that is an ancient product.
I watch this old house and read JLC online letters - recently started getting their print magazine - but had not heard of exterior MDF. Fact that you prefer or PVC for trim is worth knowing.
Last time I looked for siding options I discovered a product made out of ash, cannot remember the name but it was rated for ground contact. IIRC, my exploration stopped when I learned each board was $60. This however is something to consider for trim. Not sure how it compared to marine grade MDF.
Imran?
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Show quoted text
On May 20, 2020, at 5:42 PM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote: ? Okay, I give?up, if David Best hasn't an answer, the point must be moot. hahaha!
Imran - yes, I've used and been pleasantly?surprised at Extira?MDF for exterior?trimming, even clad a set of church doors in it. However the amount of typical MDF sag and creep (i.e. non structural uses only) still applies even to the exterior resiny stuff.? But I seem to like it better than PVC, especially when it comes to thermal expansion.?
SL (Stephen) - aha! yet ANOTHER "Medite" variant, but that is structural? Another product to investigate for applications I didn't even know I needed.
I guess most folks on this forum are like myself - MDF isn't really the "core" of the business processes, thanks for the engagement just the same. On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 4:27 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Probably all epoxy with a bit of saw dust ?
Imran ?Marine grade MDF - now ³Ù³ó±ð°ù±ð¡¯²õ a concept !!!
Brett, I just recently discovered that there is such a thing as exterior MDF....maybe that will float your boat ..lol!? Regards? Stephen?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: Removing Uncured Shellac
Try this will do it
 Designing and building for 47 years
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Show quoted text
On May 20, 2020, at 5:04 PM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
? Shellac?that won't cure up:
1. Get it above dewpoint?- hot air, in the sunshine, infrared, etc. It can fool you since it also softens with heat, but if you don't push out the alcohol and water, it'll sit there indefinitely. I once had a trunk finish in shellac on a February wet day, and it didn't cure for a month until it got in the sunlight. Also remember the moisture gets pulled into the alcohol when it evaporates and cools below dewpoint.
2. Spray naptha or better yet lacquer thinner over it. Sometimes it can "pull" enough of the solvents out of the coating to dry out faster overall. DONT use acetone - it will blush unless it's hot enough, and if it was already hot enough, it wouldn't have a curing problem.
3. Wait a couple more days and don't touch it and see if vapor pressures end up taking care of themselves.
4.? Sometimes the tackiness in the shellac isn't lack of cure - it's waxes and soft resins.
5. If the topcoats are compatible solvent, who cares, just spray over and it will settle on it's own. I suspect you are pouring some kind of epoxy, then that's probably an expensive risk. I am making a bar for my son. The top is walnut burl veneer over which I will be pouring a clear resin. I used shellac to seal the veneer before pouring the resin. Usually I mix my own shellac from flakes but I got lazy this time and used Zinsser Bulls Eye from a can. I thinned it with denatured alcohol to about a 1.5 pound cut. The shellac will not completely cure. I tried sanding but it just immediately gums up the paper. I was going to try wiping next with a rag soaked in denatured alcohol but before I did I thought I would reach out to the community for suggestions. Thanks in advance for any help.
?- Scott Hanna?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Brett, that would be a lot easier.? The collector is a bastard modified Oneida.? It¡¯s basically their current 5HP Smart collector with one large HEPA
filter.? I am going to modify again to double the filter area.? There is a small Onieda silencer inside the current filter mount.? Maybe a longer one before the filters is the right answer.? It¡¯s really just the noise from the output I¡¯d like to quiet.? How
effective are the silencers? I suspect they disrupt the airflow, maybe put a larger diameter in and then split to dual 8¡± outputs?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brett Wissel
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 3:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Building a closet for dust collector
?
Joe, understand the context better, thanks. With your added info, maybe also something along the lines of an inline muffler/silencer on the exhaust side is worth?trying. We used to use them for vent fans and compressed air exhaust for the
rock drills? in mining and they worked great, though did need cleaning they seldom received?from dust and diesel particulate collecting .?
?
I've been using this collector in my 3 car garage shop for years.? I do a lot that is not noisy enough to require ear muffs. The noise mostly comes from the exhaust and it's my understanding that forcing the exhaust to make a 90 degree
turn or 180 degrees of turn reduces the noise a lot.??
--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110
314.772.2167
brett@...
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Joe, understand the context better, thanks. With your added info, maybe also something along the lines of an inline muffler/silencer on the exhaust side is worth?trying. We used to use them for vent fans and compressed air exhaust for the rock drills? in mining and they worked great, though did need cleaning they seldom received?from dust and diesel particulate collecting .?
?
?
I've been using this collector in my 3 car garage shop for years.? I do a lot that is not noisy enough to require ear muffs. The noise mostly comes from the exhaust and it's my understanding that forcing the exhaust to make a 90 degree turn or 180 degrees of turn reduces the noise a lot.??
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Put the clamp on one side 3 or 4 times to soften the seal. Then put the clamp on the low side so it can cradle the mating piece with the clamp handle in your hand ready.? Not a 2 person job at all....
Bill Belanger?
Yes on the STC specs.? I¡¯m not worried about the frequencies below 125hz, at least to my ears they are 1Khz and higher.? The collector is supposed to
be only 86db but I find it annoying.?
?
Maybe I¡¯ll hold off for a while, still need to install the duct work.
?
Anyone have advice on holding two pieces of Nordfab and snapping the clamp on? Seems like a two person job?
?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of mark thomas
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 3:03 PM
To: Felder Owner Group <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Building a closet for dust collector
?
Acoustic engineers sometimes cite water as a metaphor for sound to make the point that is leaks through the smallest and most permeable points.? An elaborate wall assembly can be rendered nearly useless by small details, like door seals,
wall-to-ceiling joints, ceiling transmission pathways, etc.? If you want to get more thorough i your research than just the STC ratings of walls, there's tons of discussions on home recording studio forums.??
Also note that sound mitigation methods are?highly sensitive to frequency.? The STC rating is for speech frequencies.? As it says on the STC website you mention:
"The STC rating is based on performance with frequencies from 125 to 4000 Hertz (the speech frequencies).
The rating provides no evaluation of the barrier's ability to block low frequency noise, such as the bass in music or the noise of some mechanical equipment"??
I originally put my cyclone in a cabinet somewhat like what you describe -- double drywall, green glues, etc.? After a move, I delayed re-building it and ultimately never got around to it.? The benefits didn't seem worth the effort.? I
only use the cyclone when machines are running, and most machines are louder than the cyclone, and silencing the cyclone is pointless in this situation.?
?
I¡¯m managing a remodel project just now where I¡¯ve specified the?KINETICS?IsoMax system between bedrooms, media room, ceilings, etc. ? This is basically putting the equivalent of a metal stud horizontally over the wood studded wall, and
the horizontal metal drywall hanger is itself attached to the stud with a rubber-isolating clip. ? I wonder how this will compare to your alternatives. ? ??
?
?
?
Hi all, the journey of building out the new shop continues.? I am now planning a closet to house the cyclone dust collector.? Being an engineer, I have to research everything.? I found a fantastic website with data on different wall construction and the
STC (sound transmission coeff) for each.
I had been planning to do 2x6 plates and staggered 2x4 studs.? From the data at the site I was surprised at a couple of things.? First, steel studs are meaningfully better the wood studs.? Second if building two walls, having drywall only on the two exterior
sides is better than having drywall sides of the studs facing inside the double wall.??
I have decided to do double steel stud walls with 2 1/2" steel studs.? I think I want 20 gauge and not the cheaper 25 gauge. any input on that?
I will install 5/8" drywall inside, a layer of green glue, and a second layer of 5/8" drywall over that and then 5/8" drywall outside. If not quiet enough I will install green glue and a second layer of 5/8" drywall outside.
I need a door to access the drum and a door to access the filters.? I am fairly certain I will do some sort of stress skin construction for the doors.
Any suggestions on how to get the dust inlet sealed to the sound proof wall?? I am doing a folded duct with 5X the cross sectional area of the exhaust port for flow the air conditioned air back into the room.
?
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Yes on the STC specs.? I¡¯m not worried about the frequencies below 125hz, at least to my ears they are 1Khz and higher.? The collector is supposed to
be only 86db but I find it annoying.?
?
Maybe I¡¯ll hold off for a while, still need to install the duct work.
?
Anyone have advice on holding two pieces of Nordfab and snapping the clamp on? Seems like a two person job?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of mark thomas
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 3:03 PM
To: Felder Owner Group < [email protected]>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Building a closet for dust collector
?
Acoustic engineers sometimes cite water as a metaphor for sound to make the point that is leaks through the smallest and most permeable points.? An elaborate wall assembly can be rendered nearly useless by small details, like door seals,
wall-to-ceiling joints, ceiling transmission pathways, etc.? If you want to get more thorough i your research than just the STC ratings of walls, there's tons of discussions on home recording studio forums.??
Also note that sound mitigation methods are?highly sensitive to frequency.? The STC rating is for speech frequencies.? As it says on the STC website you mention:
"The STC rating is based on performance with frequencies from 125 to 4000 Hertz (the speech frequencies).
The rating provides no evaluation of the barrier's ability to block low frequency noise, such as the bass in music or the noise of some mechanical equipment"??
I originally put my cyclone in a cabinet somewhat like what you describe -- double drywall, green glues, etc.? After a move, I delayed re-building it and ultimately never got around to it.? The benefits didn't seem worth the effort.? I
only use the cyclone when machines are running, and most machines are louder than the cyclone, and silencing the cyclone is pointless in this situation.?
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I¡¯m managing a remodel project just now where I¡¯ve specified the?KINETICS?IsoMax system between bedrooms, media room, ceilings, etc. ? This is basically putting the equivalent of a metal stud horizontally over the wood studded wall, and
the horizontal metal drywall hanger is itself attached to the stud with a rubber-isolating clip. ? I wonder how this will compare to your alternatives. ? ??
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Hi all, the journey of building out the new shop continues.? I am now planning a closet to house the cyclone dust collector.? Being an engineer, I have to research everything.? I found a fantastic website with data on different wall construction and the
STC (sound transmission coeff) for each.
I had been planning to do 2x6 plates and staggered 2x4 studs.? From the data at the site I was surprised at a couple of things.? First, steel studs are meaningfully better the wood studs.? Second if building two walls, having drywall only on the two exterior
sides is better than having drywall sides of the studs facing inside the double wall.??
I have decided to do double steel stud walls with 2 1/2" steel studs.? I think I want 20 gauge and not the cheaper 25 gauge. any input on that?
I will install 5/8" drywall inside, a layer of green glue, and a second layer of 5/8" drywall over that and then 5/8" drywall outside. If not quiet enough I will install green glue and a second layer of 5/8" drywall outside.
I need a door to access the drum and a door to access the filters.? I am fairly certain I will do some sort of stress skin construction for the doors.
Any suggestions on how to get the dust inlet sealed to the sound proof wall?? I am doing a folded duct with 5X the cross sectional area of the exhaust port for flow the air conditioned air back into the room.
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Bill Belanger
Jim Fleming
Jason Holtz
imran
Joe Jensen