I¡¯ve used a bit of MDF for veneering and marquetry projects, but I just buy the stuff that my hardwood supplier carries. ?Much better than that at the Borg. ?Frankly, I¡¯d prefer to avoid the stuff.
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Brett,
I was just kidding, not really putting the product down. My shop door have MDO for exterior cladding and are doing just fine after 18 yrs. Although, that is an ancient product.
I watch this old house and read JLC online letters - recently started getting their print magazine - but had not heard of exterior MDF. Fact that you prefer or PVC for trim is worth knowing.
Last time I looked for siding options I discovered a product made out of ash, cannot remember the name but it was rated for ground contact. IIRC, my exploration stopped when I learned each board was $60. This however is something to consider for trim. Not sure how it compared to marine grade MDF.
Imran? ? Okay, I give?up, if David Best hasn't an answer, the point must be moot. hahaha!
Imran - yes, I've used and been pleasantly?surprised at Extira?MDF for exterior?trimming, even clad a set of church doors in it. However the amount of typical MDF sag and creep (i.e. non structural uses only) still applies even to the exterior resiny stuff.? But I seem to like it better than PVC, especially when it comes to thermal expansion.?
SL (Stephen) - aha! yet ANOTHER "Medite" variant, but that is structural? Another product to investigate for applications I didn't even know I needed.
I guess most folks on this forum are like myself - MDF isn't really the "core" of the business processes, thanks for the engagement just the same. On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 4:27 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Probably all epoxy with a bit of saw dust ?
Imran ?Marine grade MDF - now ³Ù³ó±ð°ù±ð¡¯²õ a concept !!!
Brett, I just recently discovered that there is such a thing as exterior MDF....maybe that will float your boat ..lol!? Regards? Stephen?
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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I¡¯m just about done building my set of dining chairs. The chair backs are held to the back post with threaded inserts inset into the back. They are through screwed to the back post with machine screws. The hole in the back post will be plugged.
Here¡¯s the question ¡ª given that it will be impossible to get to the machine screw to tighten it should it loosen, should I lactate the threaded insert to keep the screw snug?
Mike
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Watch out for Hacked Site
Saw this router for $93. If you go directly to Suppinc.com they sell apparel and don¡¯t carry tools
I went all they way to PayPal payment page an then quit. Just heads up.
Imran
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Re: Drawer Notching for Blum
Not sure I'd want to get my hands anywhere near the shaper setup in those videos.
I've made hundreds of dovetailed drawers from solid maple that required notches for Blum slides and I find it simple to just use an oscillating multi-tool with a sharp blade designed for wood cutting.? I have a cordless version for ease of use.
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I was wondering if someone has an EGL that they want to sell for a reasonable price.? The retail price on the Felder website has gone up a lot since I last remember seeing it a few years ago!? I'm in the Seattle area.
Thanks!
Anil
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Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Joe, it may not make sense for you (not exactly?average?hobbyist shop nor average climate), but cu ft air exchange numbers are too simple.? Thermal mass and other issues come into play.? My shop is closet-size?compared to yours, at a paltry 450 square feet, and the math says my cyclone would evacuate the air in 3 minutes.? But I routinely run my cyclone for far?longer in a ~25¡ã delta T, and I've never noticed even the slightest effect on shop comfort.? ?But I have radiant floors, which make ambient air temp less important.
In any event, I have a hunch that very few people think about outside exhaust, but it may be accessible for more folks than realize it, so I mention it.?
2400 sq ft shop say average 10 ft ceiling for Easy math is 24,000 cu ft. 1200 cfm dust collect would send 24,000 cu ft out in 20 min. Bringing in 110F air and cooling it is tough.?
On May 20, 2020, at 6:54 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?
Of course you don¡¯t want to pay a lot of money to condition air and then blow it all outside.? But it depends on climate and how much you use it.? Obviously in a professional?shop running 8 hours a day in snow country,? blowing outside seems
impractical.? ?But a hobbyist running a cyclone intermittently in a moderate climate is not going to see a significant impact on air conditioning bill.
Once upon a time, I had an Oneida inside my shop.? Several years ago, I built a "lean-to" shed behind the shop, I removed a window in the back to allow the room for the duct work to get to the dust collector and air can return.? I looked up the pros and cons
of exhausting to the outside with a seal.? I keep my shop climate controlled and it was my understanding that when you suck air out that is not good for air conditioning.? By having an opening, that allows the well insulated shed to be climate controlled.?
Sure, there would be less noise if totally isolated, and I very much like quiet when it comes to noice from things like air compressors and dust collectors, but for me, noise is not a problem.? If I had a very noisy dust collector, that would be different.
Fortunately, my dust collector is extremely quiet. ?
I have been very happy with my shed.? I "bought" space inside the shop.? I do think it is a bit quieter being back there even though there is a connection, and it is setup where there are larger "French" doors in the back so when it is time to empty the dust
bins, I wheel the green waste cans to the door, and empty them where if any dust gets on the concrete outside, no problem.? Dust in the air blows away.
Anyhow, just some feedback. ?
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
I just know that I¡¯ve hung spiral pipe and the best way was to screw it together on the floor then put it up. Once I discovered nordfab and what a dream it was to put one piece on, then the next, because it was so self supportive, I knew I would never do it any other way. Carry one piece, even the 5 foot sections, up the ladder, hold it in one hand with the clamp in the other, push it close and snap the clamp. But I¡¯m alone. Many ways to skin a cat...
Bill Belanger?
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 19:50 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Bill, I've got a forklift and a come along. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Bill, I've got a forklift and a come along. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Felder-grade wooden joint
Is there a reason why you can¡¯t build in a compression arm ie a triangle? That should easily solve your problem. ?
Get
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Torsion box ¡°laying¡± on it.
Pic of cross section attached for context... it¡¯s a platform with a ¡°bolt¡± assembly that allows me to leave the platform ¡°locked¡± on the upper floor not suspended from the hoist.
The bolts actually articulate with a special ¡°key¡± lever inserted from the top of the platform - so to drop it you have to find the key to the control box for the hoist, hoist to release tension, and then use the keyed lever to retract the bolts.
Then you can lower the hoist to the ground.
The platform is... stout. ?I suspended it by the bolts and then jumped up and down in the middle... with just screws it held fine, then it got glued and screwed more.
So the load is... shear/angle? ?Mostly shear I¡¯d guess from the strength of the torsion box, but it¡¯s more ¡°long¡± strong than ¡°narrow¡± strong so I suspect more load in the middle of the arm.
I¡¯ve also considered weaving a cable ¡°through¡± the platform - I could start at 24¡± out and with a 7¡± rise - get a nice gusset with a hidden cable. ?But it means the lift arms are tied to the platform - less cool and harder to work on later.
The arms hang from the unistrut and ³Ù³ó±ð°ù±ð¡¯²õ a 1 ton lift above.
If I just need to spring for 80/20 or find a welder... I guess I will. ?But ships and huge stuff has been made of just wood - this doesn¡¯t seem too nuts.
I mean it¡¯s an elevator in my shop, it¡¯s a little nuts, but not like, excessive.
 
Sent from a device with less than stellar autocorrect
On May 20, 2020, at 9:24 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
What direction is the carry going to be? Straight down or on an angle/lever/shearing?
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Good evening,
So I have a project I¡¯m trying to complete, and Im nearing the end and am looking for opinions.
I need to make a 90 degree joint, approx 3¡±x3¡± timbers of whatever I please.
I intend the ¡°leg¡± to extend 30-36¡±, and anticipate 250-350 lbs static load at the 16¡± point-ish.
I was thinking of 1/2¡± plies Bridled, and would consider going to 1/4¡± to get more glueing surface of it seems like it is needed.
Pic of assembly and close up of proposed joint.
Should I quit being silly and just sandwich a 1/4¡± steel L in there running 12¡± each way?
Why ¡°felder grade¡±, well this is the felder group, y¡¯all seem really bright, and I can¡¯t lead with ¡°so I¡¯m finishing up the elevator in my shop¡±...
Thanks for the advice,
Brian
|
David,
You continue to be a great resource!? Thanks for the referral to Mitutoyo caliper.? Without your guidance I would have jumped on my old trusty e-bay and bought one.? Of course, I most likely would have gotten a chinese clone.
Thanks,
Bill White
SoCal
Felder KF700S - Hammer A3 -41, Festools, & Way too much stuff I don't use
|
Re: Felder-grade wooden joint
Torsion box ¡°laying¡± on it.
Pic of cross section attached for context... it¡¯s a platform with a ¡°bolt¡± assembly that allows me to leave the platform ¡°locked¡± on the upper floor not suspended from the hoist.
The bolts actually articulate with a special ¡°key¡± lever inserted from the top of the platform - so to drop it you have to find the key to the control box for the hoist, hoist to release tension, and then use the keyed lever to retract the bolts.
Then you can lower the hoist to the ground.
The platform is... stout. ?I suspended it by the bolts and then jumped up and down in the middle... with just screws it held fine, then it got glued and screwed more.
So the load is... shear/angle? ?Mostly shear I¡¯d guess from the strength of the torsion box, but it¡¯s more ¡°long¡± strong than ¡°narrow¡± strong so I suspect more load in the middle of the arm.
I¡¯ve also considered weaving a cable ¡°through¡± the platform - I could start at 24¡± out and with a 7¡± rise - get a nice gusset with a hidden cable. ?But it means the lift arms are tied to the platform - less cool and harder to work on later.
The arms hang from the unistrut and ³Ù³ó±ð°ù±ð¡¯²õ a 1 ton lift above.
If I just need to spring for 80/20 or find a welder... I guess I will. ?But ships and huge stuff has been made of just wood - this doesn¡¯t seem too nuts.
I mean it¡¯s an elevator in my shop, it¡¯s a little nuts, but not like, excessive.
Sent from a device with less than stellar autocorrect
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 20, 2020, at 9:24 PM, Michael Tagge <mike.j.tagge@...> wrote:
?
What direction is the carry going to be? Straight down or on an angle/lever/shearing?
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
Good evening,
So I have a project I¡¯m trying to complete, and Im nearing the end and am looking for opinions.
I need to make a 90 degree joint, approx 3¡±x3¡± timbers of whatever I please.
I intend the ¡°leg¡± to extend 30-36¡±, and anticipate 250-350 lbs static load at the 16¡± point-ish.
I was thinking of 1/2¡± plies Bridled, and would consider going to 1/4¡± to get more glueing surface of it seems like it is needed.
Pic of assembly and close up of proposed joint.
Should I quit being silly and just sandwich a 1/4¡± steel L in there running 12¡± each way?
Why ¡°felder grade¡±, well this is the felder group, y¡¯all seem really bright, and I can¡¯t lead with ¡°so I¡¯m finishing up the elevator in my shop¡±...
Thanks for the advice,
Brian
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
2400 sq ft shop say average 10 ft ceiling for Easy math is 24,000 cu ft. 1200 cfm dust collect would send 24,000 cu ft out in 20 min. Bringing in 110F air and cooling it is tough.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 20, 2020, at 6:54 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?
Of course you don¡¯t want to pay a lot of money to condition air and then blow it all outside.? But it depends on climate and how much you use it.? Obviously in a professional?shop running 8 hours a day in snow country,? blowing outside seems
impractical.? ?But a hobbyist running a cyclone intermittently in a moderate climate is not going to see a significant impact on air conditioning bill.
Once upon a time, I had an Oneida inside my shop.? Several years ago, I built a "lean-to" shed behind the shop, I removed a window in the back to allow the room for the duct work to get to the dust collector and air can return.? I looked up the pros and cons
of exhausting to the outside with a seal.? I keep my shop climate controlled and it was my understanding that when you suck air out that is not good for air conditioning.? By having an opening, that allows the well insulated shed to be climate controlled.?
Sure, there would be less noise if totally isolated, and I very much like quiet when it comes to noice from things like air compressors and dust collectors, but for me, noise is not a problem.? If I had a very noisy dust collector, that would be different.
Fortunately, my dust collector is extremely quiet. ?
I have been very happy with my shed.? I "bought" space inside the shop.? I do think it is a bit quieter being back there even though there is a connection, and it is setup where there are larger "French" doors in the back so when it is time to empty the dust
bins, I wheel the green waste cans to the door, and empty them where if any dust gets on the concrete outside, no problem.? Dust in the air blows away.
Anyhow, just some feedback. ?
|
Re: Felder-grade wooden joint
What direction is the carry going to be? Straight down or on an angle/lever/shearing?
Michael Tagge
Built Custom Carpentry
Get
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Good evening,
So I have a project I¡¯m trying to complete, and Im nearing the end and am looking for opinions.
I need to make a 90 degree joint, approx 3¡±x3¡± timbers of whatever I please.
I intend the ¡°leg¡± to extend 30-36¡±, and anticipate 250-350 lbs static load at the 16¡± point-ish.
I was thinking of 1/2¡± plies Bridled, and would consider going to 1/4¡± to get more glueing surface of it seems like it is needed.
Pic of assembly and close up of proposed joint.
Should I quit being silly and just sandwich a 1/4¡± steel L in there running 12¡± each way?
Why ¡°felder grade¡±, well this is the felder group, y¡¯all seem really bright, and I can¡¯t lead with ¡°so I¡¯m finishing up the elevator in my shop¡±...
Thanks for the advice,
Brian
|
Felder-grade wooden joint
Good evening,
So I have a project I¡¯m trying to complete, and Im nearing the end and am looking for opinions.
I need to make a 90 degree joint, approx 3¡±x3¡± timbers of whatever I please.
I intend the ¡°leg¡± to extend 30-36¡±, and anticipate 250-350 lbs static load at the 16¡± point-ish.
I was thinking of 1/2¡± plies Bridled, and would consider going to 1/4¡± to get more glueing surface of it seems like it is needed.
Pic of assembly and close up of proposed joint.
Should I quit being silly and just sandwich a 1/4¡± steel L in there running 12¡± each way?
Why ¡°felder grade¡±, well this is the felder group, y¡¯all seem really bright, and I can¡¯t lead with ¡°so I¡¯m finishing up the elevator in my shop¡±...
Thanks for the advice,
Brian
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Bill, If my ceilings were 10 or 12 feet I would probably have gone that route, but at 16 feet and my hate of ladders, for me it seemed like the way to go and it worked well. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:59 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: So Glen, you never tried one piece at a time?
Bill Belanger? Joe, This is how I did it. I spent a lot of time laying it out on paper, pin pointing my exact location drops. After many layouts when I found the best one I ordered the parts. While waiting for delivery I layed out my plan on the shop floor with a marker. Then using my laser I shot up all the lines and hung the threaded rod. When it all arrived I pre assembled everything on the floor and cut all the pieces. I hung pulleys above each section and my friend came over and we hoisted up 20n to thirty foot sections. I went very well limited ladder work and all done in a day. However 30 ft of NordFab at a time was way heavier than I thought. It all worked out great. Last thing i wanted to do is to try to take measurements, cut pieces, and try and clamp all those connectors 16 feet off the ground. If I ever had to do it again and I will for the addition, I will do it the same way. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop:
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:25 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger? On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
I wasted a lot of time planning how to deal with DC noise when I was putting my shop together. I live in snow country and a heated shop is the priority. Come to find out I did waste a lot of time thinking about it, as I cant hear my DC running because the machines are louder and I get some heat off the DC and it circulates the shop air heat from the wood stove. All worked out fine. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:54 PM mark thomas < murkyd@...> wrote: Of course you don¡¯t want to pay a lot of money to condition air and then blow it all outside.? But it depends on climate and how much you use it.? Obviously in a professional?shop running 8 hours a day in snow country,? blowing outside seems impractical.? ?But a hobbyist running a cyclone intermittently in a moderate climate is not going to see a significant impact on air conditioning bill. Once upon a time, I had an Oneida inside my shop.? Several years ago, I built a "lean-to" shed behind the shop, I removed a window in the back to allow the room for the duct work to get to the dust collector and air can return.? I looked up the pros and cons of exhausting to the outside with a seal.? I keep my shop climate controlled and it was my understanding that when you suck air out that is not good for air conditioning.? By having an opening, that allows the well insulated shed to be climate controlled.? Sure, there would be less noise if totally isolated, and I very much like quiet when it comes to noice from things like air compressors and dust collectors, but for me, noise is not a problem.? If I had a very noisy dust collector, that would be different. Fortunately, my dust collector is extremely quiet. ?
I have been very happy with my shed.? I "bought" space inside the shop.? I do think it is a bit quieter being back there even though there is a connection, and it is setup where there are larger "French" doors in the back so when it is time to empty the dust bins, I wheel the green waste cans to the door, and empty them where if any dust gets on the concrete outside, no problem.? Dust in the air blows away.
Anyhow, just some feedback. ?
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
So Glen, you never tried one piece at a time?
Bill Belanger?
Joe, This is how I did it. I spent a lot of time laying it out on paper, pin pointing my exact location drops. After many layouts when I found the best one I ordered the parts. While waiting for delivery I layed out my plan on the shop floor with a marker. Then using my laser I shot up all the lines and hung the threaded rod. When it all arrived I pre assembled everything on the floor and cut all the pieces. I hung pulleys above each section and my friend came over and we hoisted up 20n to thirty foot sections. I went very well limited ladder work and all done in a day. However 30 ft of NordFab at a time was way heavier than I thought. It all worked out great. Last thing i wanted to do is to try to take measurements, cut pieces, and try and clamp all those connectors 16 feet off the ground. If I ever had to do it again and I will for the addition, I will do it the same way. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop:
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:25 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger? On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Joe, This is how I did it. I spent a lot of time laying it out on paper, pin pointing my exact location drops. After many layouts when I found the best one I ordered the parts. While waiting for delivery I layed out my plan on the shop floor with a marker. Then using my laser I shot up all the lines and hung the threaded rod. When it all arrived I pre assembled everything on the floor and cut all the pieces. I hung pulleys above each section and my friend came over and we hoisted up 20n to thirty foot sections. I went very well limited ladder work and all done in a day. However 30 ft of NordFab at a time was way heavier than I thought. It all worked out great. Last thing i wanted to do is to try to take measurements, cut pieces, and try and clamp all those connectors 16 feet off the ground. If I ever had to do it again and I will for the addition, I will do it the same way. Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 257 ?????????? Avery, CA. 95224 Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road ????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 650-678-3137 LIC # 707507
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 6:25 PM Bill B¨¦langer < Bllblngr@...> wrote: I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger? On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
Of course you don¡¯t want to pay a lot of money to condition air and then blow it all outside.? But it depends on climate and how much you use it.? Obviously in a professional?shop running 8 hours a day in snow country,? blowing outside seems impractical.? ?But a hobbyist running a cyclone intermittently in a moderate climate is not going to see a significant impact on air conditioning bill.
Once upon a time, I had an Oneida inside my shop.? Several years ago, I built a "lean-to" shed behind the shop, I removed a window in the back to allow the room for the duct work to get to the dust collector and air can return.? I looked up the pros and cons of exhausting to the outside with a seal.? I keep my shop climate controlled and it was my understanding that when you suck air out that is not good for air conditioning.? By having an opening, that allows the well insulated shed to be climate controlled.? Sure, there would be less noise if totally isolated, and I very much like quiet when it comes to noice from things like air compressors and dust collectors, but for me, noise is not a problem.? If I had a very noisy dust collector, that would be different. Fortunately, my dust collector is extremely quiet. ?
I have been very happy with my shed.? I "bought" space inside the shop.? I do think it is a bit quieter being back there even though there is a connection, and it is setup where there are larger "French" doors in the back so when it is time to empty the dust bins, I wheel the green waste cans to the door, and empty them where if any dust gets on the concrete outside, no problem.? Dust in the air blows away.
Anyhow, just some feedback. ?
|
Re: Building a closet for dust collector
I don¡¯t agree Jason. Put three pieces together, now you have a heavier unit to attach. Then it becomes a 2 person job.
Bill Belanger?
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 18:20 Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: Joe, If you assemble the parts on the floor then lift them up its easier.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
|
imran
Bill Belanger
Jason Holtz
Joe Jensen
