Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
I think a lot of us doing it for a living did it they way you showed Mark, the clamps and supporting just help with ease of operation and keep accuracy a little better. This is especially true with heavy materials not the light weight sheet you were using. Practice and lots of cutting helps immensely. Good demo IMHO.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> Date: 2020-03-27 7:33 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] really hating sliding saw for panels
Haha, was wondering if anyone would catch that, I did say with only came with the saw.? If i was doing that a lot and had the space I for sure would build a larger outfeed but for the little i do I would use a support like you have shown. The other thing that I would maybe do is build a table that could attach to the sheet metal one that could drop out of the way when not needed. Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 7:28 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? The 2x8 left on the outrigger was pretty much dead on , interestingly the 2x2 was a little more than 1/2mm maybe even closer to 1mm out of square so I need to check some settings.
Dummy that I am I wasn’t even focused getting perfect cuts it was more about not needing extra support, but obviously like you pointed out the cuts need to be accurate as well.
Honestly this is the way I learned and never saw it done any other way by any cabinet maker in the 4 shops I worked in or my own when I had 5 employees ? Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 7:17 PM, Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
?
well.. my first thought was..how accurate are the cuts you just made? are the square or? just wondering..
On Friday, March 27, 2020, 04:11:32 PM PDT, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
Ok, Being the self sacrificing person I am I have made a video of breaking down a 4x8 sheet without anymore support than what comes with the saw or clamping.?
Again not saying extra support and clamping doesn’t help or improve just that it isn’t a total requirement.
Go easy on me guy’s, I am fully prepared for a full critique of my ? technique but know that I cry easily (mostly on the inside only) ????
Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:? 
|
Re: Alinement of rip fence
What saw do you have? Designing and building for 47 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:49 PM, woodfish1956 <woodfish510@...> wrote:
?Thanks David.
Sorry I worded the inquire wrong. Its not slider it's the rip fence to the blade. My fence is off like about a 1/16 of a inch. When I put square on fence and touch it to blade on in feed side it is out towards the right on outfield side. I'm using a large square from woodpecker tool, so hopefully that is right on. My slider is within a few thousands from end to end. Myou between cast iron top and slider is about .187. I set that up with intercators.
|
Re: Alinement of rip fence
If it is father away at the out feed just leave it. When using as a bump stop reference at saMe place. Mac Designing and building for 47 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:20 PM, woodfish1956 <woodfish510@...> wrote:
?Hi all
?My rip fence kf700 is not parallel? with sliding table. How do I realign it? My slider is within a couple of thousands with blade. Q
Thanks
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
If you have an outrigger than you can fasten a piece of hard maple or something else Strong to outrigger parallel to slider for support. Of larger panel . Doesn’t haven’t be at right angle to slider. Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Michael Glaser <1michaelglaser1@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
I currently am limited with time and am typing on the toilet or while at a red light... I will try to send video but it’s not needed, I just need more support for the panel. And extra table etc. that was best suggestion I’ve seen.
Yes I have an outrigger.?
right now, without an extra support table (possibly on both sides of the slider) I am struggling as much as a 3-legged cat covering up its crap in a litter box.
|
Re: Alinement of rip fence
Thanks David.
Sorry I worded the inquire wrong. Its not slider it's the rip fence to the blade. My fence is off like about a 1/16 of a inch. When I put square on fence and touch it to blade on in feed side it is out towards the right on outfield side. I'm using a large square from woodpecker tool, so hopefully that is right on. My slider is within a few thousands from end to end. Myou between cast iron top and slider is about .187. I set that up with intercators.
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Mark,
what I meant is the infeed side of cast iron table. Typo.
James
James,? not sure i am following, the only place that i see you might really need support is if you were cutting maybe 20” or wider on the rip side then I could see more support needed on the outfeed cast iron side, not saying extra support isn’t helpful or useful just that it isn’t a must have to cut 4x8 sheets, i do it without support all the time Regards, Mark ? You definitely need support on both sides of the slider to cut 4x8 sheet.
I have one Felder "X-Roll" Rip fence on the slider (two is better) and Aigner support table on the indeed side of the cast iron table.
James [Edited Message Follows]
I currently am limited with time and am typing on the toilet or while at a red light... I will try to send video but it’s not needed, I just need more support for the panel. And extra table etc. that was best suggestion I’ve seen.
Yes I have an outrigger.?
right now, without an extra support table (possibly on both sides of the slider) I am struggling as much as a 3-legged cat covering up its crap in a litter box.
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Haha, was wondering if anyone would catch that, I did say with only came with the saw.? If i was doing that a lot and had the space I for sure would build a larger outfeed but for the little i do I would use a support like you have shown. The other thing that I would maybe do is build a table that could attach to the sheet metal one that could drop out of the way when not needed. Regards, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 7:28 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? The 2x8 left on the outrigger was pretty much dead on , interestingly the 2x2 was a little more than 1/2mm maybe even closer to 1mm out of square so I need to check some settings.
Dummy that I am I wasn’t even focused getting perfect cuts it was more about not needing extra support, but obviously like you pointed out the cuts need to be accurate as well.
Honestly this is the way I learned and never saw it done any other way by any cabinet maker in the 4 shops I worked in or my own when I had 5 employees ? Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 7:17 PM, Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
?
well.. my first thought was..how accurate are the cuts you just made? are the square or? just wondering..
On Friday, March 27, 2020, 04:11:32 PM PDT, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
Ok, Being the self sacrificing person I am I have made a video of breaking down a 4x8 sheet without anymore support than what comes with the saw or clamping.?
Again not saying extra support and clamping doesn’t help or improve just that it isn’t a total requirement.
Go easy on me guy’s, I am fully prepared for a full critique of my ? technique but know that I cry easily (mostly on the inside only) ????
Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:?
|
Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Der Hans und Dieter - successor to Fritz & Franz ? ?LOL
David Best
On Mar 27, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote:
Those Digistops are nice if you can get them integrated well -- I see that it is fairly tall, I would want it to be lowered toward the slider. I'm sure if you reached out to them and asked for a pair at say 24" each, they might give you a price break and then you can go wild in coming up with something! It's also American made, which surprised me -- the electronics too. Thanks for sharing!?
My F&F are simple right now as I haven't had the need for non-crosscut fence use (other than rough cross cuts). Ie, I use only the Franz part in conjunction with my OEM digi stop.?
When I have time (haha) I may make something better...this one was made in a rush but has provisions to re-orient the handle as needed.?
<IMG_2516.jpg>
|
Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
Der Hans und Dieter - successor to Fritz & Franz ? ?LOL
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 4:10 PM, Sang Luu < sangluu@...> wrote:
Those Digistops are nice if you can get them integrated well -- I see that it is fairly tall, I would want it to be lowered toward the slider. I'm sure if you reached out to them and asked for a pair at say 24" each, they might give you a price break and then you can go wild in coming up with something! It's also American made, which surprised me -- the electronics too. Thanks for sharing!?
My F&F are simple right now as I haven't had the need for non-crosscut fence use (other than rough cross cuts). Ie, I use only the Franz part in conjunction with my OEM digi stop.?
When I have time (haha) I may make something better...this one was made in a rush but has provisions to re-orient the handle as needed.?
<IMG_2516.jpg>
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
The 2x8 left on the outrigger was pretty much dead on , interestingly the 2x2 was a little more than 1/2mm maybe even closer to 1mm out of square so I need to check some settings.
Dummy that I am I wasn’t even focused getting perfect cuts it was more about not needing extra support, but obviously like you pointed out the cuts need to be accurate as well.
Honestly this is the way I learned and never saw it done any other way by any cabinet maker in the 4 shops I worked in or my own when I had 5 employees ? Regards, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 7:17 PM, Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
?
well.. my first thought was..how accurate are the cuts you just made? are the square or? just wondering..
On Friday, March 27, 2020, 04:11:32 PM PDT, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
Ok, Being the self sacrificing person I am I have made a video of breaking down a 4x8 sheet without anymore support than what comes with the saw or clamping.?
Again not saying extra support and clamping doesn’t help or improve just that it isn’t a total requirement.
Go easy on me guy’s, I am fully prepared for a full critique of my ? technique but know that I cry easily (mostly on the inside only) ????
Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:?
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
MK:
I see now. The overhead guard IS?your outfeed support :)
I do not own that so the board just flops down (unsafe) so I must use a support table of some kind.?
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
well.. my first thought was..how accurate are the cuts you just made? are the square or? just wondering..
On Friday, March 27, 2020, 04:11:32 PM PDT, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
Ok, Being the self sacrificing person I am I have made a video of breaking down a 4x8 sheet without anymore support than what comes with the saw or clamping.?
Again not saying extra support and clamping doesn’t help or improve just that it isn’t a total requirement.
Go easy on me guy’s, I am fully prepared for a full critique of my ? technique but know that I cry easily (mostly on the inside only) ????
On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:?
|
The arbor hex cap-screw is an M10, left-hand thread, 25mm of thread length, 7mm low-profile head. ?Unlikely you will find this exact screw except through Felder. ?McMaster has something similar, but the head is 10mm tall, but should work fine: ?
???? ? ? David Best - via mobile phone?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 3:23 PM, woodfish1956 <woodfish510@...> wrote:
?Never gave it a thought but your right. Guess you change it all the time and dont think about it. Guess I will have to order direct from Felder.
|
Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
Those Digistops are nice if you can get them integrated well -- I see that it is fairly tall, I would want it to be lowered toward the slider. I'm sure if you reached out to them and asked for a pair at say 24" each, they might give you a price break and then you can go wild in coming up with something! It's also American made, which surprised me -- the electronics too. Thanks for sharing!? My F&F are simple right now as I haven't had the need for non-crosscut fence use (other than rough cross cuts). Ie, I use only the Franz part in conjunction with my OEM digi stop.? When I have time (haha) I may make something better...this one was made in a rush but has provisions to re-orient the handle as needed.? 
|
Re: Alinement of rip fence
You don’t align the rip fence to the sliding table. ?This photo, along with the description that goes with the photo, covers the objective in aligning the rip fence: ?
David Best - via mobile phone?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 3:20 PM, woodfish1956 <woodfish510@...> wrote:
?Hi all
?My rip fence kf700 is not parallel? with sliding table. How do I realign it? My slider is within a couple of thousands with blade. Q
Thanks
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Wait a minute he has no outrigger!? His issues totally make sense now Regards, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:59 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Ok, Being the self sacrificing person I am I have made a video of breaking down a 4x8 sheet without anymore support than what comes with the saw or clamping.?
Again not saying extra support and clamping doesn’t help or improve just that it isn’t a total requirement.
Go easy on me guy’s, I am fully prepared for a full critique of my ? technique but know that I cry easily (mostly on the inside only) ????
<Video.mov> Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:?
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Ok, Being the self sacrificing person I am I have made a video of breaking down a 4x8 sheet without anymore support than what comes with the saw or clamping.?
Again not saying extra support and clamping doesn’t help or improve just that it isn’t a total requirement.
Go easy on me guy’s, I am fully prepared for a full critique of my ? technique but know that I cry easily (mostly on the inside only) ????
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:?
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
I don't think any clamps will do what you need.? The outrigger
table is the thing that makes panel processing possible Order it.
Pay for expedited delivery??
your original salesman? deserves a kick in the head.
On 3/27/20 9:24 AM, Mark Kessler wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Yea what
saw are you using? Clamps are nice but you don’t need them to
properly use a slider, what is your technique??
Regards, Mark
?
also..Mac Clamps are
AWESOME for holding down sheets on the slider
Everytime I try to cut a panel,
something moves, or bends down, or wobbles, etc. I
have this huge order and Need giant clamps, toggle
clamps are junk and are not holding it all down.?
I am having to cut my panels down to 1200x1200 with my
festool track and then work with those.
Am about to list this saw for sale and a get a
vertical panel saw.?
sorry for the venting, but i'm just so frustrated.?
|
Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
Here's a picture of one that's fairly fancy (not mine) in the choice of materials
On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 4:58 PM Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one= [email protected]> wrote:
I'm pretty sure whatever way you decide to go will be about as good as it can get..cant wait to see what you come up with
On Friday, March 27, 2020, 11:06:43 AM PDT, joelgelman via Groups.Io <joelgelman= [email protected]> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
I find myself using my Fritz Franz jig very often - short crosscuts, tapers, certain parallel fence use (Brian Lamb fences in other applications.? When I made it, I thought the Incra would be the best stops (see picture).? However, I am not so happy with it.? To adjust, you have to fit the stop within the teeth along the fence to index it, and I like to just slide it to the right setting then tighten.? I know they are very well liked for accuracy, maybe it is just me.? On my old Biesemeyer (see attached), the tape is wider (3/4) making it easy to read, and I have always been happy with it. Slides easily, but does not move side to side when you tighten the knob. ? However, I am planning to eliminate the use of fences for my Kapex and go with something like this with the miter saw in line with a radial drill press since the table height is fixed: Not going to necessarily use the same stops, but will have the saw lowered to have the boards flush with the infeed and outfeed tables. So, I was thinking maybe I would make a new Fritz Franz with my old discontinued Biesemeyer stops (the flip stops are super hard to find).? Other alternatives could be the 1-F stops sold by Michael Schuler (which I may use for the drill press when I get it), or a DRO like a digi-stop I am guessing there are other options.? With the Fritz-franz, 1 tricky thing is that it is nice to have a non-skid strip and i would not want to not have that Mine is recessed into a groove in the wood fence so it protrudes just a bit and that does not interfere with the stop.? With an aluminum extrusion there may not be the clearance.? Well.... still thinking about the options.
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:?
|
David P. Best
Sang Luu