Re: Removing Slider from it’s base support
Okay guys, the parts came in so I gave it a try to marry the slider with it’s base extrusion.?Keep in mind that slider and base extrusion assembly is upside down. So I am installing the base extrusion to the stationary slider.
Even though I was cautioned to not try it while the assembly is upside down, I wanted to try it because I do not have means to easily levitate and even though I can get help I prefer if I can manage without. It actually went without any hitch.
I have annotated pics that are embedded in text but I know they will get put at the bottom, so hopefully annotation will help.
First, I am not certain which way the bearing carrier goes. It had fallen out because all plastic clips were broken, so I put it the way I found it. Here is a pic. Again, everything is upside down.
Is the sheet metal bearing holder the right side up/down?
Assuming it is, I think the next step is “the bump” to achieve full slider travel. Not sure if I want to do it upside/down. I also do not fully understand it other than causing the slider to move while bearings are held ?against the end of travel stop. Is this the goal?
Let me share what is happening so hopefully someone can tell me that all is fine to this point or not.
These pictures are from infeed side. The slider can only be pull towards front this much
If you zoom in the pic above the bearings are at the end of base extrusion and the movement is stopped because the bearing carrier is hitting the bolt in the base extrusion. Here is a pic of the bolt in base extrusion.
Here is a pic showing how far the slider can be pushed towards outfeed.
If you zoom in pic above, the bearings are at the end of the track in slider and movement is being stopped by the two bolts in the bottom of the slider.
Appreciate any feedback.
Imran
On Mar 18, 2020, at 11:03 PM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:
? I also used my hydraulic table to install the slider, In fact I bought it early just to do this, As Bill said in one word, it made what I thought would be a pain in the azz become very easy. Glen
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 5:50 PM Bill Bélanger < Bllblngr@...> wrote: I did mine with a fat 300. Sweet...
Bill Belanger? On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 17:49 imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Mac,
Thanks for the idea. I do have a PJ.
Imran? On Mar 18, 2020, at 8:35 PM, mac campshure via Groups.Io <mac512002=[email protected]> wrote:
? If you have a pallet jack put slider on couple saw horses and slide the machine into the slider i have done this myself many times much easier than trying to horse the slider on to the machine. Have the bearing carriage a little bit out and pinch it together? to get the carriage rolling? in the ways. mac..
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
-3106
608-332-2330 cell 608-824-0023 fax
Designing and building for 48 years
I would reassemble the slider off of the machine.? Easier to thread the bearings and associated retainers in between the two extrusions with the slider upside down on the bench.? You’ll need to hang the lower carriage from above as you thread the two parts together - I’m imagining hanging it from an engine hoist or forklift forks or overhead gantry of some kind. ? I have done this assembly without overhead support but it requires three people (2 to manhandle the lower carriage and one to feed the bearing assembly).? Check that that locking lever (long rod with finger that meshes into locking slots) is not damaged. ? David Best - via mobile phone? On Mar 18, 2020, at 3:24 PM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Thanks David. I just replied to Mark with my thoughts but your explanation also makes sense. I had already cleaned all accessible surfaces including ways before removing the base. I did not do a visual but the steel ways so I will do that, thanks. BTW, I took a dial indicator with me when I checked it out. There was no height variation to speak of other then last couple of feet on each end (about 0.010”). I was pleased with that. It is a 10’ slider. I am very hopeful that it will be as good as new when I get it put together. ? Next question. You think it is advisable to put the base on the machine and then place the slider on it? It will be less weight doing it in 2 steps but not sure how hard/time consuming it would be to get the slider on the base? ? Imran ? ? Imran, that’s exactly what I was afraid of. ? Give a good cleaning then inspection to the hardened steel ways on both the slider and lower carriage to make sure they are not damaged as well. ? ?I can think of a couple of ways this could have happened, but the most likely scenario is that the slider was jammed very hard at one extreme of it’s travel and the metal bearing cage that the plastic retainers attach to was ripped out by one of the cap screws intended to limit the travel of the slider. ? ? On Mar 18, 2020, at 1:47 PM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? First it was very easy to slide the base off the slider, Thanks to David's instructions.
I found all but one tabs on the roller carriers broken. One carrier was also broken. Fortunately, rollers stayed snapped in except for one which came out because the carrier was broken at it's <broken roller carrier.jpg><all but 1 tabs broken on roller carriers.jpg><close up of carrier.jpg>location.
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Re: Alinement of rip fence
You adjust the round fence bar , adjust from zero to few thou. At out feed of fence to blade Designing and building for 47 years
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On Mar 27, 2020, at 8:33 PM, woodfish1956 <woodfish510@...> wrote:
?Kf 700 pro
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Re: Alinement of rip fence
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
It is20’ just have to be tough Designing and building for 47 years
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On Mar 27, 2020, at 8:19 PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Crazy how that sheet looks about 20' long when you're crosscutting it. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Crazy how that sheet looks about 20' long when you're crosscutting it. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
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Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
Meant to say for cuts greater than 15 degrees from the saw blade's plane.?
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Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
I think the grips are useful for pieces requiring a cut less than, say 15 degrees. But apart from that, the forward pressure should be enough to keep the workpiece from moving. Ideally, the extrusion would be lower profile like David Best's and you can still have the grip tape if you wanted but you'd probably want to mill out a custom flag that accounts for that.?
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
I was thinking the exact same thing..haha
On Friday, March 27, 2020, 06:07:03 PM PDT, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote:
Look at those F-ing flip stops man! Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Look at those F-ing flip stops man! Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Aigner -- Interesting price comparison
HI -
my email is bespoken @ me. com
Thanks and stay safe!
Scott
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Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
I had an accurate technology scale my slider 20+ yrs ago they are pretty solid units and good customer service, i just sold that unit as I hadn’t used it in a long time and plan on using one with a magnetic encoder if I add it to the saw i have now.? Regards, Mark
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On Mar 27, 2020, at 8:31 PM, joelgelman via Groups.Io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Sang: I did reach out. ?This is the reply: _______________________________________________________
The 2 products that I recommended:
?
Digi-Stop: This is our small shop version digital stop & fence system. See:
Our website shows smallest STOCK size is 52” range, but I can custom make them in shorter sizes if needed. (Price is $299 for ranges of 36” and less.)
Because the sliding stop actually rides on the front of the fence, there isn’t space for the non-skid strip (see drawing of the system at:)
?
ProStop: This is the more industrial version stop & fence system. See:
Our website shows smallest STOCK size is 50” range, but I can custom make them in shorter sizes if needed. (I’d need desired range to quote.)
With this product, the sliding stop rides on the TOP of the fence, so grip-strip on the front should not interfere with operation (may require very small change to the design, but takes less than 2 minutes).
_________________________________________________________________
I do believe having that grip strip can limit my options for stops, but I was thinking it could be a safety benefit for certain applications. ?Let me give you an example. ? Last week, I was ripping a few long thin pieces at different tapers (trim for?out of square walls). ?I used the Fritz-Franz. ?I could have used the stops to set the taper for that particular cut and an alternative?was to mark the wood at both ends and set the stops to the marks were flush with the front of the jig (that is flush with the blade). ?What?held the wood nicely in place was pushing the fritz and?franz towards each other. ?No room for the Mac Clamps. ?
Maybe the grip strips are not as beneficial as I think they are, but I figure that others make the effort to put them there for a reason, including the manufacturer of the expensive commercial version I do not care for.?
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Rick, your post is a wealth of information!
This topic that Dave started is perfectly timed, at least for myself.? I have been looking for information on importing foreign machines, especially form the UK, Japan, and SE Asia.? Thank you both!
SW
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Re: Fence and Flip stop comparison
Sang: I did reach out. ?This is the reply: _______________________________________________________
The 2 products that I recommended:
?
Digi-Stop: This is our small shop version digital stop & fence system. See:
Our website shows smallest STOCK size is 52” range, but I can custom make them in shorter sizes if needed. (Price is $299 for ranges of 36” and less.)
Because the sliding stop actually rides on the front of the fence, there isn’t space for the non-skid strip (see drawing of the system at:)
?
ProStop: This is the more industrial version stop & fence system. See:
Our website shows smallest STOCK size is 50” range, but I can custom make them in shorter sizes if needed. (I’d need desired range to quote.)
With this product, the sliding stop rides on the TOP of the fence, so grip-strip on the front should not interfere with operation (may require very small change to the design, but takes less than 2 minutes).
_________________________________________________________________
I do believe having that grip strip can limit my options for stops, but I was thinking it could be a safety benefit for certain applications. ?Let me give you an example. ? Last week, I was ripping a few long thin pieces at different tapers (trim for?out of square walls). ?I used the Fritz-Franz. ?I could have used the stops to set the taper for that particular cut and an alternative?was to mark the wood at both ends and set the stops to the marks were flush with the front of the jig (that is flush with the blade). ?What?held the wood nicely in place was pushing the fritz and?franz towards each other. ?No room for the Mac Clamps. ?
Maybe the grip strips are not as beneficial as I think they are, but I figure that others make the effort to put them there for a reason, including the manufacturer of the expensive commercial version I do not care for.?
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
I think a lot of us doing it for a living did it they way you showed Mark, the clamps and supporting just help with ease of operation and keep accuracy a little better. This is especially true with heavy materials not the light weight sheet you were using. Practice and lots of cutting helps immensely. Good demo IMHO.?
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-------- Original message -------- From: Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> Date: 2020-03-27 7:33 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] really hating sliding saw for panels
Haha, was wondering if anyone would catch that, I did say with only came with the saw.? If i was doing that a lot and had the space I for sure would build a larger outfeed but for the little i do I would use a support like you have shown. The other thing that I would maybe do is build a table that could attach to the sheet metal one that could drop out of the way when not needed. Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 7:28 PM, Mk Vt <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? The 2x8 left on the outrigger was pretty much dead on , interestingly the 2x2 was a little more than 1/2mm maybe even closer to 1mm out of square so I need to check some settings.
Dummy that I am I wasn’t even focused getting perfect cuts it was more about not needing extra support, but obviously like you pointed out the cuts need to be accurate as well.
Honestly this is the way I learned and never saw it done any other way by any cabinet maker in the 4 shops I worked in or my own when I had 5 employees ? Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 7:17 PM, Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one@...> wrote:
?
well.. my first thought was..how accurate are the cuts you just made? are the square or? just wondering..
On Friday, March 27, 2020, 04:11:32 PM PDT, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
Ok, Being the self sacrificing person I am I have made a video of breaking down a 4x8 sheet without anymore support than what comes with the saw or clamping.?
Again not saying extra support and clamping doesn’t help or improve just that it isn’t a total requirement.
Go easy on me guy’s, I am fully prepared for a full critique of my ? technique but know that I cry easily (mostly on the inside only) ????
Regards, Mark On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Mark K: On both narrow (12" x 8') and wider rips, I've needed to put some cheap work supports to keep the pieces from tipping down at the rear of the out feed table.? How are you doing long rips without having the piece fall down?? This is what I'm temporarily using, with FAT300 on order:? 
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Re: Alinement of rip fence
What saw do you have? Designing and building for 47 years
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On Mar 27, 2020, at 6:49 PM, woodfish1956 <woodfish510@...> wrote:
?Thanks David.
Sorry I worded the inquire wrong. Its not slider it's the rip fence to the blade. My fence is off like about a 1/16 of a inch. When I put square on fence and touch it to blade on in feed side it is out towards the right on outfield side. I'm using a large square from woodpecker tool, so hopefully that is right on. My slider is within a few thousands from end to end. Myou between cast iron top and slider is about .187. I set that up with intercators.
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Re: Alinement of rip fence
If it is father away at the out feed just leave it. When using as a bump stop reference at saMe place. Mac Designing and building for 47 years
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On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:20 PM, woodfish1956 <woodfish510@...> wrote:
?Hi all
?My rip fence kf700 is not parallel? with sliding table. How do I realign it? My slider is within a couple of thousands with blade. Q
Thanks
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
If you have an outrigger than you can fasten a piece of hard maple or something else Strong to outrigger parallel to slider for support. Of larger panel . Doesn’t haven’t be at right angle to slider. Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Mar 27, 2020, at 3:37 PM, Michael Glaser <1michaelglaser1@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
I currently am limited with time and am typing on the toilet or while at a red light... I will try to send video but it’s not needed, I just need more support for the panel. And extra table etc. that was best suggestion I’ve seen.
Yes I have an outrigger.?
right now, without an extra support table (possibly on both sides of the slider) I am struggling as much as a 3-legged cat covering up its crap in a litter box.
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Re: Alinement of rip fence
Thanks David.
Sorry I worded the inquire wrong. Its not slider it's the rip fence to the blade. My fence is off like about a 1/16 of a inch. When I put square on fence and touch it to blade on in feed side it is out towards the right on outfield side. I'm using a large square from woodpecker tool, so hopefully that is right on. My slider is within a few thousands from end to end. Myou between cast iron top and slider is about .187. I set that up with intercators.
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Re: really hating sliding saw for panels
Mark,
what I meant is the infeed side of cast iron table. Typo.
James
James,? not sure i am following, the only place that i see you might really need support is if you were cutting maybe 20” or wider on the rip side then I could see more support needed on the outfeed cast iron side, not saying extra support isn’t helpful or useful just that it isn’t a must have to cut 4x8 sheets, i do it without support all the time Regards, Mark ? You definitely need support on both sides of the slider to cut 4x8 sheet.
I have one Felder "X-Roll" Rip fence on the slider (two is better) and Aigner support table on the indeed side of the cast iron table.
James [Edited Message Follows]
I currently am limited with time and am typing on the toilet or while at a red light... I will try to send video but it’s not needed, I just need more support for the panel. And extra table etc. that was best suggestion I’ve seen.
Yes I have an outrigger.?
right now, without an extra support table (possibly on both sides of the slider) I am struggling as much as a 3-legged cat covering up its crap in a litter box.
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imran
Jason Holtz
Michael Glaser
Sang Luu