The printer Mark Kessler is using is out of reach for any home hobby type situation. You can get a decent 3D printer for $500 or so, but it’s going to take $3000-$5000 to get one capable of printing with carbon fiber enhanced materials (or a lot of modifications to a cheaper model). With most home type machines you can print PLA, ABS, PETG and a few other alphabet soup combo’s. PLA is the most common and easiest to print with, but it does have strength and durability issues. I printed a LED light mount for my CNC mill using it and it has held up ok, even under the spray of oil and water based coolants.?
I also printed up some replacement speaker grills on my van when I did the handicapped conversion… the side doors required all new panels to accommodate the automatic door openers. That had to be printed out of ABS due to the summertime heat (would have melted and warped the PLA). Using ABS requires that you enclose the printer and keep the heat enclosed or the print goes to hell.
I have not used the DLP (Digital Light Processing) models. The smoothness of the prints is much better than FDM (Fused Deposition Modeling) and I think they have units coming out that will print with fairly strong materials… at what cost, I don’t know.
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I know this might be an off question and not trying to turn the thread but i love the idea of printing parts like this at home but have not gotten a 3D printer or CNC yet (I am looking at the Camaster CNC right now).? My wife was talking about being able to print small knobs and such - so considering one just got much easier :)
Are the materials made with these relatively strong and is there a large difference in the printers that build the part up layer by layer vs those that build with light in the epoxy?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 10:55 PM Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. < rohrabacher@...> wrote:
AT LAST? a decent use for those printers~!! ?Good show~!!
On 2/21/20 9:30 PM, Mark Kessler wrote:
I 3d
printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will
add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it
home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are
suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and
just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
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The markforged (the one used to make this part) has the ability to make the strongest most robust parts of all of the FDM type printers, it can lay carbon fibre filament and the slicing software is powerful in that it allows you to select different infill geometry's and you can orient the fibre for the strongest matrix. The best resolution is 100 micron layer, you would have to sand the parts to get them smooth and black and a kinda white is the only color. I think 5k for the one that doesn't lay fibre and $6500 for the one that does
The Form three is an SLA printer And will print to 25 microns and has more colors. There is lots of info out there. 5k but uses a lot more consumables and is messy.?
Personally I think 3d printing is great for fixtures and first articles like how Brian L uses and how I use it at work but thats it for me?
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On Feb 23, 2020, at 8:49 AM, Michael Marsico <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
? I know this might be an off question and not trying to turn the thread but i love the idea of printing parts like this at home but have not gotten a 3D printer or CNC yet (I am looking at the Camaster CNC right now).? My wife was talking about being able to print small knobs and such - so considering one just got much easier :)
Are the materials made with these relatively strong and is there a large difference in the printers that build the part up layer by layer vs those that build with light in the epoxy?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 10:55 PM Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. < rohrabacher@...> wrote:
AT LAST? a decent use for those printers~!!
?Good show~!!
On 2/21/20 9:30 PM, Mark Kessler wrote:
I 3d
printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will
add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it
home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are
suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and
just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg> <image2.jpeg>
|
I know this might be an off question and not trying to turn the thread but i love the idea of printing parts like this at home but have not gotten a 3D printer or CNC yet (I am looking at the Camaster CNC right now).? My wife was talking about being able to print small knobs and such - so considering one just got much easier :)
Are the materials made with these relatively strong and is there a large difference in the printers that build the part up layer by layer vs those that build with light in the epoxy?
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 10:55 PM Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. < rohrabacher@...> wrote:
AT LAST? a decent use for those printers~!!
?Good show~!!
On 2/21/20 9:30 PM, Mark Kessler wrote:
I 3d
printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will
add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it
home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are
suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and
just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
|
Re: 12" Mitersaw Roundup from JLC 2020
I should correct a bad comment I made about dust collection, what I meant to say there was no mention of dust collection with vac attached or how easy it was to attach a vac. Bag collection is typically mediocre at best and attaching a vac, especially trimming in house, situations can change it significantly. Also very surprised to see Milwaukee not tested. Also found it odd to compare some corded with a mix of battery.?
I don't think they would include a 10" Kapex in a 12" saw review. No mention about dust collection at all. Must be a framer that did the review. I can confirm that the 12" Makita corded is very nice saw with great dust collection but not really a jobsite to jobsite saw unless you're a 250 lb. weight lifter.?
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 3:31 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: For the ones interested. Apparently, Bosch GCM12 has been tweaked. Couple of cordless models included. No Kapex, which I also got some emails on from Festool regarding minor upgrades. ? Imran
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Re: 12" Mitersaw Roundup from JLC 2020
I don't think they would include a 10" Kapex in a 12" saw review. No mention about dust collection at all. Must be a framer that did the review. I can confirm that the 12" Makita corded is very nice saw with great dust collection but not really a jobsite to jobsite saw unless you're a 250 lb. weight lifter.?
On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 3:31 AM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: For the ones interested. Apparently, Bosch GCM12 has been tweaked. Couple of cordless models included. No Kapex, which I also got some emails on from Festool regarding minor upgrades. ? Imran
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12" Mitersaw Roundup from JLC 2020
For the ones interested. Apparently, Bosch GCM12 has been tweaked. Couple of cordless models included. No Kapex, which I also got some emails on from Festool regarding minor upgrades. ? Imran
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I could do that in the next few days, to be honest I think it’s good enough and wouldn’t be worth reprinting. I think you would have to make it taller to really optimize the transition. Probably easier to do in Autocad than unigraphics.
?I got caught like three times, ?people be like - that doesn’t look like software validation, i was like - really and what do you know about software... reaction, blank stares... Regards, Mark
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On Feb 22, 2020, at 9:52 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? If I had the dimensions, I could model that with a longer, smoother transition for you guys. My printer is packed away as we are remodeling our house at the moment, but I could post the stl file no problem.
I 3d printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
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Ed the printer is markforged and the material is a nylon with chopped carbon fibre, it actually has the ability to lay in continuous fibre filaments like carbon fibre, fiber glass for uber strength. I really like this one, virtually no fiddling and cleanup and works every time, we have a form3 and I hate it?
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On Feb 22, 2020, at 8:54 PM, Ed Mazuronis via Groups.Io <egmiii@...> wrote:
?
Mark,
What material did you print these from? Curious what printer you used as well.
Thanks.
On Friday, February 21, 2020, 09:31:01 PM EST, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
I 3d printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
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AT LAST? a decent use for those printers~!!
?Good show~!!
On 2/21/20 9:30 PM, Mark Kessler wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I 3d
printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will
add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it
home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are
suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and
just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
|
Re: FB 710 lower fly wheel noise at full speed
Without a blade and after proper alignment of the pulleys, there is not any vibration when only the lower fly wheel spins under power.? It purrs along quite smoothly.? This does not totally eliminate motor and lower fly wheel issue, but makes it less likely.? Re-installed the blade, vibration returned.? I tried increased and decreased tension, tracking the blade at the edge and near the middle with various tension amounts, vibration still present.? I don't have a tension meter so I use the scale on the saw, aiming between 25 mm and 30 mm (25, 27, 30).? Essentially, I had 6 combinations of blade tracking location (edge vs center) and tension amounts (25, 27, 30).? I think the combination of center tracking and 27 on the tension scale resulted in the least vibration, but it's still there.??
Probably time to make a tension meter using a dial indicator.??
SW
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Mark,
What material did you print these from? Curious what printer you used as well.
Thanks.
On Friday, February 21, 2020, 09:31:01 PM EST, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
I 3d printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
My new FB 710 vibrates also.? I haven't had the time to try to isolate the source since I corrected the pulleys mis-alignment issue yesterday (see my FB 710 fly wheel noise thread).??
The FB 710 spine has four bolt holes in it.? Two at the top and two at the bottom.? They are used to attach shipping cleats to the pallet for shipping.? I wonder if attaching additional metal bar (or welding it) to the spine would stiffen up the spine even more?? The lack of answer to this question over at SMC led me to think no one has done it.??
I plan to try to isolate the source of vibration.? If it is from the fly wheel, there is a posting over at vintagemachinery.org that details balancing the fly wheels using a dial indicator and 1/4 oz lead weights.??
SW
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
I really use the term “bean counting” to refer to “value engineering”, as I suspect most people do. Obviously the accountants aren’t the ones making these decisions, it’s marketing and product development organizations.
No offense meant to accountants.
On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:03 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Companies use cheap motors and the buyers blame the bean counters.? Dave-? bean counting right now.
ABB makes high and low end motors.
fwiw, my FB610 is not terrible vibration-wise, but certainly nowhere near as smooth as good old iron or my old DoAll metal saw.? I've never run newer saws like ACM, so can't compare to that.? So I tinkered a bit to try and isolate vibration on the Felder.?
To my surprise, the motor is a major source of vibration.? I ran the saw with no blade, and the instant I power off the motor, it is much smoother.? ?I assumed this was a high-quality motor, but now I'm less sure.
I also had the thought of filling the column with concrete to add some mass and damping.? The Felder column is no doubt perfectly FEA-analyzed -- just stiff enough to tension a blade, and not an extra gram of metal to upset the bean counters.
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
DoAll is a fine example of early sheet metal manufactured saw. Very well built I have an 18”. ?I am not to sure filling column with concrete will eliminate vibration. I have a 36” Oliver and have some vibration I am sure if I had the time I could isolate the culprit. The 216 weights 2500 to 3000# if memory serves me. And it is very stout cast iron goose neck body. I have built a few machines and used reinforced steel and concrete in the bases and like it very much. I have had heavy stile B type ACM and seem to remember very week design around blade guide . Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 22, 2020, at 1:40 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?fwiw, my FB610 is not terrible vibration-wise, but certainly nowhere near as smooth as good old iron or my old DoAll metal saw.? I've never run newer saws like ACM, so can't compare to that.? So I tinkered a bit to try and isolate vibration on the Felder.? To my surprise, the motor is a major source of vibration.? I ran the saw with no blade, and the instant I power off the motor, it is much smoother.? ?I assumed this was a high-quality motor, but now I'm less sure.
I also had the thought of filling the column with concrete to add some mass and damping.? The Felder column is no doubt perfectly FEA-analyzed -- just stiff enough to tension a blade, and not an extra gram of metal to upset the bean counters.
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Companies use cheap motors and the buyers blame the bean counters.? Dave-? bean counting right now.
ABB makes high and low end motors.
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fwiw, my FB610 is not terrible vibration-wise, but certainly nowhere near as smooth as good old iron or my old DoAll metal saw.? I've never run newer saws like ACM, so can't compare to that.? So I tinkered a bit to try and isolate vibration on the Felder.?
To my surprise, the motor is a major source of vibration.? I ran the saw with no blade, and the instant I power off the motor, it is much smoother.? ?I assumed this was a high-quality motor, but now I'm less sure.
I also had the thought of filling the column with concrete to add some mass and damping.? The Felder column is no doubt perfectly FEA-analyzed -- just stiff enough to tension a blade, and not an extra gram of metal to upset the bean counters.
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
fwiw, my FB610 is not terrible vibration-wise, but certainly nowhere near as smooth as good old iron or my old DoAll metal saw.? I've never run newer saws like ACM, so can't compare to that.? So I tinkered a bit to try and isolate vibration on the Felder.? To my surprise, the motor is a major source of vibration.? I ran the saw with no blade, and the instant I power off the motor, it is much smoother.? ?I assumed this was a high-quality motor, but now I'm less sure.
I also had the thought of filling the column with concrete to add some mass and damping.? The Felder column is no doubt perfectly FEA-analyzed -- just stiff enough to tension a blade, and not an extra gram of metal to upset the bean counters.
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
The only thing that is the same as oliver original is the name they bought for $100,000.00? That’s it!!!! Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 21, 2020, at 7:30 PM, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote:
? David, ? I love that old iron.? I live out on the edge of civilization so I don't have ready access.? ? Short story.? In about 2004 I bought a used, cheap Chiuting thickness planer. It produced smooth, flat, evenly thicknessed boards with horrible snipe.? I traded in on a Felder. ? <image004.jpg> ? ? Last week I bought a 20" Oliver band saw directly from Oliver in Seattle. ? ?
<image006.jpg> ? What do the machines have in common??? I learned in the process of buying the Oliver that it is the store front brand of Geetech, aka Chiuting.? According to Bloomberg, another familiar sounding name, this is a publicly traded Taiwanese company.? Their customer list includes several woodworker recognizable names such as Jet, Powermatic, Laguna, Wilton, Sawstop, Grizzly and a bunch more.? Then there is also metal working machinery, plastic injection systems and other lines beyond. ? ? <image003.png> ? The amount of Chiuting design content that goes into a given machine undoubtedly ?varies according to customer and contract.? Laguna and Oliver share some common dna but ?are not twins.? Its more than just sharing castings or grades of castings.? Its much more complicated.? An Ancestry.com ?(Incestry.com) tree would be interesting.? ? Check out Oliver at the IWF.? They make nice machines.? Maybe it's based on experience gained from other brands. ? ? ? Bandsaws are simple and there are good ones made in Taiwan.? Many US companies made wonderful large saws,? Northfield still does ( a few anyway ).? The fact there are few manufacturers now leads me to believe there isn't much profit or volume in the business.? How many ACM 740 get built and sold now, even world wide?? At least there are enough choices for the few of us who want them.? There are also great cast iron saws for less than half of the cost of new steel.? Dave
I prefer “robust rigidity” to all the other terms. ?LOL David Best - Sent from my iPad
On Feb 20, 2020, at 7:13 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote: ?To be fair, the terms are ambiguous.? You're using "strong" more or less as a synonym for "yield strength", but I think it's more common to use it as a vague and ill-defined term to describe a combination of more specific properties.? On the other hand, "stiff" does have a more precise meaning in materials and mechanics.?
Thinking more about bandsaws, it occurs to me that perhaps the optimal stiffness is part art, not just bean counting.? Probably too stiff is bad -- you want some flex to absorb shocks, etc.?
As a tangent, my Dad gave me The New Science of Strong Materials when I was about 10.? I still have it decades later and pick it up now and then.? Great book:
New Science of Strong Materials
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If I had the dimensions, I could model that with a longer, smoother transition for you guys. My printer is packed away as we are remodeling our house at the moment, but I could post the stl file no problem.
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I 3d printed a fitting for the overhead guard with a 4” port, I will add the .stl to the files section Monday as I forgot to bring it home with me today. It’s not perfect as my modeling skills are suffering and I was trying to do it under the radar at work and just ran out of time, had issues with blending...
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I don’t see anything wrong with the machine. The OP used possibly the worst possible combination to test, tall relatively narrow and putting them way off center. Try a 3 foot long piece of 1x6 run right down the middle.
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On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:35 PM, mark thomas < murkyd@...> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 07:51 PM, imranindiana wrote:
but your illustration showed the affect of roller not being parallel to the table but what I am suggesting is possible with roller that is parallel and is much more likely to occur if the board is tall.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.? I wasn't intending to show a mis-adjusted roller.? The point is that the roller is pushed down on either end by a spring.? At rest, the roller is lower than the cutterhead by a couple millimeters.? ?So let's say the planned cut is 1mm.? ?So the roller (at rest parallel to planer)? is 3mm lower than the top edge of the board when you begin to feed.? When the roller contacts the board, the roller moves up under the spring pressure, but if the board is on one side, the roller will raise up at an angle, as shown in my drawing, and will at this point no longer be parallel to bed.? The roller is now placing pressure on the top of board only at the inner edge.? Hence the rotation when the cutterhead begins the rearward force.
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On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 07:51 PM, imranindiana wrote:
but your illustration showed the affect of roller not being parallel to the table but what I am suggesting is possible with roller that is parallel and is much more likely to occur if the board is tall.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.? I wasn't intending to show a mis-adjusted roller.? The point is that the roller is pushed down on either end by a spring.? At rest, the roller is lower than the cutterhead by a couple millimeters.? ?So let's say the planned cut is 1mm.? ?So the roller (at rest parallel to planer)? is 3mm lower than the top edge of the board when you begin to feed.? When the roller contacts the board, the roller moves up under the spring pressure, but if the board is on one side, the roller will raise up at an angle, as shown in my drawing, and will at this point no longer be parallel to bed.? The roller is now placing pressure on the top of board only at the inner edge.? Hence the rotation when the cutterhead begins the rearward force.
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imran