Re: Latest in Woodworking
Imran, Where is that picture taken.
Jon S
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-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of imranindiana via Groups.Io Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 9:29 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [FOG] Latest in Woodworking I saw this yesterday in local market. They were edging sheets and I could smell it from distance. It was still there this morning so thought I share. Imran -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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I saw this yesterday in local market. They were edging sheets and I could smell it from distance.
It was still there this morning so thought I share.
Imran
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Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Are the issues people reported here with noise due to not having the segmented pressure bar? Another advantage of segmented pressure bar (per Felder) is planing of thinner stock.
Another option discussed here is the infeed roller with mixed feedback. The rubber coated one requires maintenance but the metal one may leave marks when taking light passes.
My Dual51 has segmented pressure bar, metal infeed roller and tersa head. I love tersa head, have no complains with metal infeed roller. If there are any marks they do not require any additional high grit sanding than I normally do. It is mentioned here that re-coating rubber infeed roller is, IIRC, $200-$300.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 9:43 AM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
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Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
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Thanks Jonathan, Nice looking work I might add. My first move is to move up to bottom mount slides. Glen
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
Glen I use spax 4mm screws and drill a 5mm hole, gives a little wiggle?room.? I fit the front's in the shop to save time on site. I use spacers to set the front up and then just screw it up, if you use quality runners you get very little sag
Attached is one I did last week.
Jonathan?
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Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Most planers over 20" have the segmented chipbreaker ( pressure beam ).? When I buy used, those parts and springs are the first to have problems but if buying new, not an issue.? I'm to the age where chasing multiple pieces back and forth doesn't appeal to
me and I don't do enough volume that I care about the flexibility of that option.? If it comes to money, I'd take the second outfeed roller or a Tersa or spiral head.? I'm a Tersa first, spiral second guy but I'm in the minority.? I'd also put the extra cash
into a bigger dust collector.? Dave
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Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at
the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
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segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Lining up my wish list for the AD951 and KF 700, with the help of forum members I am clear on the overheadhead guard for the KF, and saving $750 (much needed) by not getting the integrated adjustable rollers in the bed of the AD951. Now I am looking at the?segmented pressure beam for the 951. Anyone have experienced advice about it? Many thanks!
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Re: I did something stupid!
Hi Mark,
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<<The PP produces Delta 3 Phase, which by definition has one leg at 208v to ground, and two legs at 120v to ground.? The 208v leg is called the "high leg.">>
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You may be in for a surprise as to voltage to ground on PP. PP produces pseudo 3 phase. It is something I have posted here but really no one cares but I think it is important for the user to know of the high voltage danger in PP unit. Mine is an older 10HP model, DPC-A10-N so not sure if this applies to newer and bigger HP models. Although, I will be surprised if they work differently. So what do I call pseudo 3 phase? Well PP sends out L1 & L2 unadulterated from the power co. In the attached (deltas) yellow and Cyan are my L1 & L2 from PP and they are 310 Vpkk (220V RMS). Note that as expected, that they are 180 deg out of phase. As you would know in ture 3 phase no 2 phases are at 0V at the same time due to 120 deg phase shift. Example attached (Phase000) from the RPC I built about 18 yrs ago. But when L1 & L2 are both at 0V the T3 has to be 310 Vpkk away. So PP creates T3, as shown by magenta trace in the attached (pp T3 Vppk), which is nearly 310 Vpkk above or below at each simultaneous zero crossing of L1 & L2. Phase to phase voltages are fine but if you lose L1 or L2 down stream then without these reference voltages being present there is 620 Vpkk (440V RMS) present at where ever T3 is connected downstream. I shared this with PP and they said my unit is working fine. Few yrs back, I lost a 10A fuse to KF700 in my distribution box (can’t remember L1 or L2). I should have checke the fuse first but I have never had one go out until then and there was no high current stall etc to make me think that I lost the fuse. I was measuring voltages and noted high voltage but these scope plots from few yrs back did not click right away. Well the transformer in KF was producing 56V instead of 24V. In the end it all made sense. My question to PP was that do they not need to provide this info to users because I am pretty certain 600V requires different treatment in a machines electrical system (connectors, etc.)
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So take a measurement to ground on T3 on your unit and see what you find. Theoretically, all I see makes sense but maybe I am missing something.
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Imran
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of mark thomas
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:38 AM
To: David Kumm <davekumm@...>; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] I did something stupid!
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I would offer a few points of clarification about all this:
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1) People often refer to PP "manufactured leg", but being manufactured isn't the important point.? The PP produces Delta 3 Phase, which by definition has one leg at 208v to ground, and two legs at 120v to ground.? The 208v leg is called the "high leg."??
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2) The high leg conductor is to be red or orange.? ?In fact, some people call it the "red leg" because of this.
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3) NEC says the high leg must be the B phase on panels:
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408.3(E) Phase Arrangement. The phase arrangement on 3-phase buses shall be A, B, C from front to back, top to bottom, or left to right, as viewed from the front of the switchboard or panelboard.?The B phase shall be that phase having the higher voltage to ground on 3-phase, 4-wire, delta-connected systems.??
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4) NEMA receptacle lugs are labeled X, Y, Z.? ?There is no code spec for mapping phases A, B and C to NEMA lugs X, Y, and Z.? But common sense is that the "middle" phase be consistent.? ?So the Y lug should be the high leg.
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5) For motors, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever which phase is connected to what, because motors do not use the leg-to-ground current and so they never see the 208v.
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6) If you have an electrical component that requires 120v supply-to-ground and you connect it a 208v source (such as a Delta high leg), it's a problem.? ?This problem is not because the supply is "manufactured" nor because it's not "stable".? The problem is that it's the wrong voltage.?
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Re: I did something stupid!
According to the manual even after you disconnect power, it says to wait 30 minutes for internal charges to dissipate before servicing.
Glen
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 6:15 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
I cut the power to the PP to turn it off.? I'm too clumsy and forgetful.? Dave
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 05:31 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Even though there is voltage to ground there is no voltage phase to phase.
Right, so when's it off you can't start motor but you can kill yourself ;-)
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Re: I did something stupid!
I cut the power to the PP to turn it off.? I'm too clumsy and forgetful.? Dave
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On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 05:31 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Even though there is voltage to ground there is no voltage phase to phase.
Right, so when's it off you can't start motor but you can kill yourself ;-)
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Thanks Michael, Yes I am disappointed in the slides I got, I just ordered some Blum under mounts and going to mock up a drawer and see how they do. I may just switch over to that. Glen
Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
I don’t have the sag issue if I use bumpers. But if I use Blum tip-on or Grass Tipmatic, I have to subtract 1mm from by bottom measurements to get a 3mm reveal otherwise it sags 1mm. Everyone in the CMA has this same issue.
maybe it’s something to do with the push to open mechanisms.
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Re: I did something stupid!
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 05:31 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Even though there is voltage to ground there is no voltage phase to phase.
Right, so when's it off you can't start motor but you can kill yourself ;-)
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Re: I did something stupid!
Mark,
I found that out the hard way. Even though there is voltage to ground there is no voltage phase to phase. I posted here to verify this before working on downstream circuits. Previously, I only checked phase to phase but now I also check phase to ground.
Imran On Feb 19, 2020, at 1:21 AM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 11:36 AM, david@... wrote:
My PP when powered off opens disconnects for T1, T2 and T3 and thus no power is present on any of the legs.
It might vary by model.? My PP has voltage to ground on two legs when "off".? The Phase Perfect PT manual repeats this warning in multiple places: WARNING! When the converter is turned OFF using a remote switch on the Control Terminals, dangerous voltage is still present on the input lines, inside the enclosure and on certain output lines to ground.?
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Because of your earlier comments regarding the droop, I build stronger brackets while assembling my saw. The arm still droops when it's at a right angle, but it's less than a couple inches. Not really something I'd complain about at this point.
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020, 12:49:26 AM EST, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
I have the Felder overhead guard on my KF700SP. ?It is on a saw with the wide rip option, so the arm is quite long. ?The pros include... ?It is really built heavy duty. ?It functions well, and with the right dust extractor system, it collects the vast majority of the sawdust. ?It easily swings out of the way. ?
It’s only drawback is the mounting system that felder used to attach it to the saw chassis. ?For engineers, they really missed the boat on this one. ?Mine is a 2018 vintage saw. ?I have not checked to see if they improved the mounting method. ?Due to the weight, the length of the arm, and the poor mounting method, when the guard is swung out of the way, it droops down several inches. ?This is probably not as much of an issue with the shorter arm used on the narrow rip capacity saws.
When I get disgusted enough, I will take the time to make a better mounting bracket and kick the Felder stupidity to the curb. ?
And before you go down the “did you bring this to the attention of Felder” path, indeed I did. ?To no avail. ?I am apparently the only one that has a problem with the mounting design of their overhead saw guard. ?I guess a little droop is not too much of an inconvenience for others.
Again I think it is probably not a problem on a narrow rip capacity saw. ?I would probably purchase it again, and modify the mounting bracket prior to the initial installation. ?It really is well built except for the one flaw.
On Feb 10, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?I've read a few older posts about this but I must say, I sort of regret not getting the overhead saw guard on my K700s. The stock Euro Guard II doesn't work too well especially if there's a hose connected to it. The weight of the hose, even when suspended in the air, can deflect the guard making it a pain to use.?
I'm wondering if someone here has been able to make (force!) the stock Euro Guard II work well enough for daily use?
I'm asking so I can pretend to exhaust all options before I break down and just buy or make/adapt a non-Felder version to the saw.?
BTW, this is the non-Felder option I've been looking at:?
It's made by a Taiwanese panel saw manufacturer (clones of Euro saws) but they have a pretty neat dust guard which I think is 95% bolt on. The only modification would be the placement of the arm, relative to the extension tables, to match the Felder dimensions, but otherwise the mounting is conceptually the same. If it costs me $500 and couple of hours of fitting, it would be a good option, price-wise, mee-thinks.?
Here's a video of it in action:?
Sang
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Haven't really noticed any wear on the tires.?
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Re: Felder BF 6 jointer table setup
Okey, 0.001" (0.025 m.m.)? or twice that? sounds more realistic to achieve than 0.005 m.m. In my textbook they recommend using equipment to grind the knives while mounted to get it down to 0.005 m.m. (around 0.0002 ", thanks for spotting the decimal error.)?
Nice design of your jig.
Here is walkthrough of a variety of related tools as well:
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The guy in the video says he used to use the Jointer Pal the past years which seemed to give a variance of maximally around 0.004" (0.1 m.m.) in a test he did. He still seemed to think the jointer had worked fine. So I guess my textbook is a bit too picky, and maybe directed towards industrial use with higher volumes. I guess one important aspect is the life span of the knives, and optimizing that requires better tolerances than for getting a good enough cut, I suppose.??
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Yes Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 18, 2020, at 2:51 PM, Anil <anil00@...> wrote:
?I was curious about the recommendation here is.? I recently saw a video by Alan Snodgrass where he recommends positioning the blade gullet at the center of the wheels as it gets the most support under tension (this is for wheels that have a crown at the top).? Whereas the very limited documentation I see for Felder recommends positioning the blades so that the gullets are near the very edge of the wheel. Is it because the wheels are flat, instead of having a crown?
What's the recommended best practice for Felder bandsaws?? I would like to just position it in the center as it makes blade installation easy, but I worry about chewing up the rubber on the wheels or worse.
Thanks!
Anil
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Thanks John, I actually spent a few hours reading many posts about the bandsaws (searched for variations of? "FB" and "610"), but do not remember specific discussion around the proper position on the wheel.? It's entirely possible I missed such a discussion; if so, I'm sorry about adding to the group churn in that case.? Hopefully this thread will still be of use for a future searcher :-)
Anil
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Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Thanks David, it's good to know that someone is using Alex's method for the FB-610 with good results.? Have you seen any issues with the blade chewing up the rubber - having a slight crown should help (I thought it was flat actually).
And I will try this approach in any case, as you suggest.
Anil
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I have an October 2019 k700s with the 52” rip and the overhead guard, mine drop an ity bity bit if any at all when rotated. Here is how mine is attached?  Regards, Mark
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On Feb 18, 2020, at 12:49 AM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
? I have the Felder overhead guard on my KF700SP. ?It is on a saw with the wide rip option, so the arm is quite long. ?The pros include... ?It is really built heavy duty. ?It functions well, and with the right dust extractor system, it collects the vast majority of the sawdust. ?It easily swings out of the way. ?
It’s only drawback is the mounting system that felder used to attach it to the saw chassis. ?For engineers, they really missed the boat on this one. ?Mine is a 2018 vintage saw. ?I have not checked to see if they improved the mounting method. ?Due to the weight, the length of the arm, and the poor mounting method, when the guard is swung out of the way, it droops down several inches. ?This is probably not as much of an issue with the shorter arm used on the narrow rip capacity saws.
When I get disgusted enough, I will take the time to make a better mounting bracket and kick the Felder stupidity to the curb. ?
And before you go down the “did you bring this to the attention of Felder” path, indeed I did. ?To no avail. ?I am apparently the only one that has a problem with the mounting design of their overhead saw guard. ?I guess a little droop is not too much of an inconvenience for others.
Again I think it is probably not a problem on a narrow rip capacity saw. ?I would probably purchase it again, and modify the mounting bracket prior to the initial installation. ?It really is well built except for the one flaw.
Alex On Feb 10, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?I've read a few older posts about this but I must say, I sort of regret not getting the overhead saw guard on my K700s. The stock Euro Guard II doesn't work too well especially if there's a hose connected to it. The weight of the hose, even when suspended in the air, can deflect the guard making it a pain to use.?
I'm wondering if someone here has been able to make (force!) the stock Euro Guard II work well enough for daily use?
I'm asking so I can pretend to exhaust all options before I break down and just buy or make/adapt a non-Felder version to the saw.?
BTW, this is the non-Felder option I've been looking at:?
It's made by a Taiwanese panel saw manufacturer (clones of Euro saws) but they have a pretty neat dust guard which I think is 95% bolt on. The only modification would be the placement of the arm, relative to the extension tables, to match the Felder dimensions, but otherwise the mounting is conceptually the same. If it costs me $500 and couple of hours of fitting, it would be a good option, price-wise, mee-thinks.?
Here's a video of it in action:?
Sang
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Re: Felder BF 6 jointer table setup
Good going , ?figure that system out you deserve a prize!! Moving barrel 6 in and out adjust top and bottom changes the angle of the assembly to move table up and down . I poor design at best.? Cutter head body should be 32 to 35 thou below outfeed table left to right. Set knives about 1.5 thou above the table. I would just clean set ?screws and not treat with anything but maybe copper anti seize.
Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 18, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Martin <par.chalmers@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Edit due to incorrect unit conversion.]
So I think I have figured out how to set the table now. I think I will upload a few photos later for future reference. I got the outfeed parallel to within 0.05 m.m (0.02") of the cutter head surface (not the knives that I treat separaretly) which I guess is as good as I can get it.? Now I am on to the cutter knives.
- What tolerance do you aim for around the circumference of the knives? That is, how round do you aim for your cutter circumference to be? I have a textbook that says that the roundness should be within 0.005 m.m (0.0002") but I reckon that is practically hard to achieve? Especially since the adjustment screws are regular M6, and those are quiet coarse.?
Currently I have around 0.2 m.m (0.080")? though which should be way to much?
- Would you lock the set screws somehow? If they wiggle loose they will become projectiles. Also I reckon the setting can easily be wrecked if they are too lose. Maybe some PTFE tape on them would be a good idea? Loctite or so seems a bit too permanent??
I am using a dial indicator with a magnetic base, but it is too wiggly for consistent measurements I think. Also the format it has makes is a bit hard to place. I think I will build me one of these:
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Jonathan Smith
imran
David