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Re: Felder Dado Set cut quality
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýImran they aren't really stuck with the tooling it's just there is better tooling for certain cuts as I have pointed out. This isn't something you are going to get from most sales people or the literature of someone trying to sell it. I have wasted some money on slot cutting tooling from Rangate when in reality that Freud dado set covers 99% of what I need in the dado slot cutting in all wood type materials, on both the saw and shaper for less than a quarter of the cost of my shaper slot cutting tooling. It also gives a higher quality cut because of the tooth configuration. The downside is that it's not insert tooling. It's taken time/money to figure this out and anyone is free to agree or disagree and share their experiences.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "imranindiana via Groups.Io" <imranindiana@...> Date: 2020-01-27 7:22 p.m. (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected], strongman_one@... Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality Well for ripping more teeth is not the right direction. I asked the question regarding chip evacuation vs more cuts/in because people who are stuck with $1100 in dado tooling may be able to get better results with, relatively speaking, higher feed rates with improved dust collection. Although, for a business, it may be cheaper to buy new tooling. Imran On Jan 27, 2020, at 11:27 PM, Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one@...> wrote: ? Oh I agree..its like a 100 tooth blade versus blade with 24 tooth.. obviously the blade with the 100 teeth is going to give a better cut than the latter.. come to think of it, theres really only 8 outside cutters on the Felder compared to a 24 tooth dado blade.. Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 09:12:44 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
It makes up for a poor design for cutting Melamine. The cutter works reasonably with other materials but not great. If you compare the number of teeth doing the actual? cutting and clearing you see the problem. I'm sure if you got someone designing a cutter that actually understood the mechanics of getting a great cut in Melamine with PC they might come up with a cutter. Or you just examine what already makes a great cut. They might actually get rid of the bat ears too. Remember in Europe they banned Dado cuts with a saw so there's probably limited interest.? ? ? Sounds like someone at Rangate wants to re¡ªinvent the cutterhead. Doubling or tripling the actual number of cutters might be a good start but would you be able to afford it. Most of this work is done on a CNC now.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "imranindiana via Groups.Io" <imranindiana@...> Date: 2020-01-27 11:53 a.m. (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected], jmkserv@... Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality Hi John, Thanks for the info. I am not educated in the science of milling so ? are the slow feed rate results better because of better chip evacuation or less cuts/mins or both? Imran On Jan 27, 2020, at 8:58 PM, jmkserv@... wrote: ? Yes both 3/8" x 3/8" and same higher quality melamine board not found at Home Desperation.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "Randy Child via Groups.Io" <strongman_one@...> Date: 2020-01-27 10:34 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality are the Freud depth of cuts the same as the Felder depths? just asking
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 07:31:34 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Here's my Freud dado at normal feed rate that I use for most cuts in all materials, about 20'/min. It's 12 to 15 years old model SD508. It's been bored and pinhole.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "Randy Child via Groups.Io" <strongman_one@...> Date: 2020-01-27 10:11 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality The 20 and 30 second cuts looks acceptable, but the amount of time for the cut is really bad.. and wow..that 10 second cut really is horrible!? I would love to see a comparison of several dado blades, such as a Forrest, Amana, Ridge, Felder..etc.. see which brand can cut the cleanest in least amount of time in melamine.. I personally think melamine, being a resinous coated material, is just a difficult substrate to cut cleanly 100% of the time.? I could be wrong though, but having used this material for years, I have found it to be a temperamental material at times.? I also know that there are different level of qualities of melamine.. for example, when I was at the Felder facility, they had several different brands of melamine and when I looked closely, several brands had a much tighter grain than other brands including the brand I brought in. That make a difference as well. Thanks for sharing your results
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 06:57:57 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
We have had recent discussion about the quality of cut in Melamine. I had to do some 3/8" wide dado cuts so borrowed a friends Felder dado set to check it out. This is the first time I've used this particular set so I did a quick check of the carbide cutters and didn't find any problem with alignment. The pics shows the quality of cuts in a random melamine cutoff I had in the shop. There are 3 24" cuts done at various feed speeds. First cut was timed at 10 +- seconds or 12'/min, second cut at 20+- seconds or 6'/min and the third cut at 30 seconds 4'/min. As you can see the second cut is very similar to the cut from the other Dado set tuned by Felder. The third cut is clean but production time at 4'/min is unacceptable. These are similar to the results I got 10 years ago when I tested for Felder in Toronto area. You have to be the judge whether this is good for your application. For the record I didn't have any issues with any other materials cutting with the grain, crosscuts had a little chipout on veneers.. If there is any interest I will post cuts in other materials.
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Re: Airlines for new shop
Another vote for PEX - easy to install, fewest joints, hasn't developed any leaks since install 10 years ago. John Stevenson On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 4:51 PM Mark Foster <mfsta2lt@...> wrote:
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Re: Airlines for new shop
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI used Parker Hannifin rubber push loc 801-6-blk. Rated for 350 pounds in 3/8 with their brass fittings. I am really happy with how it turned out, easy install, no leaks and easy to cut in a ¡°T¡± somewhere if you want to add a drop.?Mark Foster? On Jan 27, 2020, at 15:05, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
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Re: Felder Dado Set cut quality
That's very true.. you don't want to rip with a 100 tooth blade..lol I was referring something like cross cutting or a procedure where a blade with a higher tooth count would cut cleaner over a blade with far less tooth count. Or like for moldings..etc
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 04:22:11 PM PST, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Well for ripping more teeth is not the right direction. I asked the question regarding chip evacuation vs more cuts/in because people who are stuck with $1100 in dado tooling may be able to get better results with, relatively speaking, higher feed rates with improved dust collection. Although, for a business, it may be cheaper to buy new tooling. Imran On Jan 27, 2020, at 11:27 PM, Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one@...> wrote: ? Oh I agree..its like a 100 tooth blade versus blade with 24 tooth.. obviously the blade with the 100 teeth is going to give a better cut than the latter.. come to think of it, theres really only 8 outside cutters on the Felder compared to a 24 tooth dado blade.. Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 09:12:44 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
It makes up for a poor design for cutting Melamine. The cutter works reasonably with other materials but not great. If you compare the number of teeth doing the actual? cutting and clearing you see the problem. I'm sure if you got someone designing a cutter that actually understood the mechanics of getting a great cut in Melamine with PC they might come up with a cutter. Or you just examine what already makes a great cut. They might actually get rid of the bat ears too. Remember in Europe they banned Dado cuts with a saw so there's probably limited interest.? ? ? Sounds like someone at Rangate wants to re¡ªinvent the cutterhead. Doubling or tripling the actual number of cutters might be a good start but would you be able to afford it. Most of this work is done on a CNC now.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "imranindiana via Groups.Io" <imranindiana@...> Date: 2020-01-27 11:53 a.m. (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected], jmkserv@... Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality Hi John, Thanks for the info. I am not educated in the science of milling so ? are the slow feed rate results better because of better chip evacuation or less cuts/mins or both? Imran On Jan 27, 2020, at 8:58 PM, jmkserv@... wrote: ? Yes both 3/8" x 3/8" and same higher quality melamine board not found at Home Desperation.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "Randy Child via Groups.Io" <strongman_one@...> Date: 2020-01-27 10:34 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality are the Freud depth of cuts the same as the Felder depths? just asking
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 07:31:34 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Here's my Freud dado at normal feed rate that I use for most cuts in all materials, about 20'/min. It's 12 to 15 years old model SD508. It's been bored and pinhole.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "Randy Child via Groups.Io" <strongman_one@...> Date: 2020-01-27 10:11 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality The 20 and 30 second cuts looks acceptable, but the amount of time for the cut is really bad.. and wow..that 10 second cut really is horrible!? I would love to see a comparison of several dado blades, such as a Forrest, Amana, Ridge, Felder..etc.. see which brand can cut the cleanest in least amount of time in melamine.. I personally think melamine, being a resinous coated material, is just a difficult substrate to cut cleanly 100% of the time.? I could be wrong though, but having used this material for years, I have found it to be a temperamental material at times.? I also know that there are different level of qualities of melamine.. for example, when I was at the Felder facility, they had several different brands of melamine and when I looked closely, several brands had a much tighter grain than other brands including the brand I brought in. That make a difference as well. Thanks for sharing your results
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 06:57:57 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
We have had recent discussion about the quality of cut in Melamine. I had to do some 3/8" wide dado cuts so borrowed a friends Felder dado set to check it out. This is the first time I've used this particular set so I did a quick check of the carbide cutters and didn't find any problem with alignment. The pics shows the quality of cuts in a random melamine cutoff I had in the shop. There are 3 24" cuts done at various feed speeds. First cut was timed at 10 +- seconds or 12'/min, second cut at 20+- seconds or 6'/min and the third cut at 30 seconds 4'/min. As you can see the second cut is very similar to the cut from the other Dado set tuned by Felder. The third cut is clean but production time at 4'/min is unacceptable. These are similar to the results I got 10 years ago when I tested for Felder in Toronto area. You have to be the judge whether this is good for your application. For the record I didn't have any issues with any other materials cutting with the grain, crosscuts had a little chipout on veneers.. If there is any interest I will post cuts in other materials.
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Re: Felder Dado Set cut quality
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýWell for ripping more teeth is not the right direction. I asked the question regarding chip evacuation vs more cuts/in because people who are stuck with $1100 in dado tooling may be able to get better results with, relatively speaking, higher feed rates with improved dust collection. Although, for a business, it may be cheaper to buy new tooling. Imran On Jan 27, 2020, at 11:27 PM, Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one@...> wrote: ? Oh I agree..its like a 100 tooth blade versus blade with 24 tooth.. obviously the blade with the 100 teeth is going to give a better cut than the latter.. come to think of it, theres really only 8 outside cutters on the Felder compared to a 24 tooth dado blade.. Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 09:12:44 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
It makes up for a poor design for cutting Melamine. The cutter works reasonably with other materials but not great. If you compare the number of teeth doing the actual? cutting and clearing you see the problem. I'm sure if you got someone designing a cutter that actually understood the mechanics of getting a great cut in Melamine with PC they might come up with a cutter. Or you just examine what already makes a great cut. They might actually get rid of the bat ears too. Remember in Europe they banned Dado cuts with a saw so there's probably limited interest.? ? ? Sounds like someone at Rangate wants to re¡ªinvent the cutterhead. Doubling or tripling the actual number of cutters might be a good start but would you be able to afford it. Most of this work is done on a CNC now.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "imranindiana via Groups.Io" <imranindiana@...> Date: 2020-01-27 11:53 a.m. (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected], jmkserv@... Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality Hi John, Thanks for the info. I am not educated in the science of milling so ? are the slow feed rate results better because of better chip evacuation or less cuts/mins or both? Imran On Jan 27, 2020, at 8:58 PM, jmkserv@... wrote: ? Yes both 3/8" x 3/8" and same higher quality melamine board not found at Home Desperation.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "Randy Child via Groups.Io" <strongman_one@...> Date: 2020-01-27 10:34 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality are the Freud depth of cuts the same as the Felder depths? just asking
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 07:31:34 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Here's my Freud dado at normal feed rate that I use for most cuts in all materials, about 20'/min. It's 12 to 15 years old model SD508. It's been bored and pinhole.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: "Randy Child via Groups.Io" <strongman_one@...> Date: 2020-01-27 10:11 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality The 20 and 30 second cuts looks acceptable, but the amount of time for the cut is really bad.. and wow..that 10 second cut really is horrible!? I would love to see a comparison of several dado blades, such as a Forrest, Amana, Ridge, Felder..etc.. see which brand can cut the cleanest in least amount of time in melamine.. I personally think melamine, being a resinous coated material, is just a difficult substrate to cut cleanly 100% of the time.? I could be wrong though, but having used this material for years, I have found it to be a temperamental material at times.? I also know that there are different level of qualities of melamine.. for example, when I was at the Felder facility, they had several different brands of melamine and when I looked closely, several brands had a much tighter grain than other brands including the brand I brought in. That make a difference as well. Thanks for sharing your results
On Monday, January 27, 2020, 06:57:57 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
We have had recent discussion about the quality of cut in Melamine. I had to do some 3/8" wide dado cuts so borrowed a friends Felder dado set to check it out. This is the first time I've used this particular set so I did a quick check of the carbide cutters and didn't find any problem with alignment. The pics shows the quality of cuts in a random melamine cutoff I had in the shop. There are 3 24" cuts done at various feed speeds. First cut was timed at 10 +- seconds or 12'/min, second cut at 20+- seconds or 6'/min and the third cut at 30 seconds 4'/min. As you can see the second cut is very similar to the cut from the other Dado set tuned by Felder. The third cut is clean but production time at 4'/min is unacceptable. These are similar to the results I got 10 years ago when I tested for Felder in Toronto area. You have to be the judge whether this is good for your application. For the record I didn't have any issues with any other materials cutting with the grain, crosscuts had a little chipout on veneers.. If there is any interest I will post cuts in other materials.
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Re: Airlines for new shop
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýFor once, I¡¯m in complete alignment with John on this topic. I¡¯ve put copper in all my shops and wouldn¡¯t use anything else.?David Best - via mobile phone? On Jan 27, 2020, at 12:16 PM, jmkserv@... wrote:
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Re: Hammer K3 sliding table support
You're talking about , right?? I struggled getting that lined up as well, and my salesman even noted that it's a pain to move after the fact.? I'm not in my shop right now, but I seem to recall there are some adjustable bolts that affect the alignment.? I also want to say both sets of bolts (attachment and adjustment) were installed strangely on the piece when it was packaged for shipment, but I might be mis-remembering there.
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Re: Airlines for new shop
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýThey make straight pex , I use 1/2¡±I¡¯d rubber hose But I will use pex in basement it is just to to to easy. Mac,,,martin/campshure/co/llc 608-824-0023?fax Designing and building for 47 years On Jan 27, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Brett Wissel <Brettwissel@...> wrote:
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Re: Airlines for new shop
We used 3/4" PEX to re-run our pneumatic plumbing last year, it's been good to us and flexible to make splices and changes as we've needed. It feels like our air plumbing system holds about 20 gallons of air itself. It was worth it to unroll it for a few hours to let it relax instead of fighting it to keep straight on install. It'll never be as straight and pretty as rigid pipe, but it'll never cost as much to buy or maintain either.
--
Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@... |
Re: Felder FAT 300 Table
#shopcarts
Tom, due to the confluence of your recommendation and the end of useful life for a batch of our shop tables, I decided to try out your "musing ".As a result, the home depot guy gave me an entire ing offer of $50?off each one to get rid of all the black Friday leftovers....so I got 5 in total. This is the 46, 52, and 62 nested. On Sat, Jan 25, 2020, 1:46 PM <tom@...> wrote: After further musing, I've come to the conclusion that as sexy as the FAT 300 tables are, I'm probably better off directing my resources towards a KF-700. In the mean time, I'm still not super happy with my current arrangement of rolling cabinets topped with MFT/3 tables. Recalling back to just using the MFT/3 tables, I remember wishing they were mobile.? |
Re: Airlines for new shop
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý?Joe I used commercial grade copper, reasonable price for good tube and fittings. 3/4" with 1/2" drops. Combination of solder and Shark bites joints. Honestly black pipe or Aluminum weren't even considerations.? John JMK Services -------- Original message -------- From: Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> Date: 2020-01-27 2:45 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: [FOG] Airlines for new shop I don't use a ton of air.? I have an old Quincy 60 gallon with a 325 pump. I set it up with a 3HP motor so it runs slow.? I could change to a 5HP and double the speed to like 900 RPM.? I was thinking 3/4" lines would be fine.? I will use my current hose reel and add a couple more and a couple of machines need air. Advice welcome. PS, ordered all the Nordfab and the local licensed seller was cheapest.? Cheaper than Griz, etc. |
Re: Airlines for new shop
If I had it to do all over again...and I will in five years when I finally retire and build a real shop...I'd go with Rapid Air and straight pipes.? ? I went with black pipe in my current shop and I can't begin to tell you how much of a pain it was to get installed and air tight. Dave Davies On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 1:45 PM Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote: I will be running airlines in the new shop soon.? I had been assuming I'd use Rapid Air.? If I do use that, would you do the hard lines or the roll. With the roll it looks like you need a straightener.? Or should I do copper? --
Dave & Marie Davies 318-219-7868 |
Airlines for new shop
I will be running airlines in the new shop soon.? I had been assuming I'd use Rapid Air.? If I do use that, would you do the hard lines or the roll. With the roll it looks like you need a straightener.? Or should I do copper?
I don't use a ton of air.? I have an old Quincy 60 gallon with a 325 pump. I set it up with a 3HP motor so it runs slow.? I could change to a 5HP and double the speed to like 900 RPM.? I was thinking 3/4" lines would be fine.? I will use my current hose reel and add a couple more and a couple of machines need air. Advice welcome. PS, ordered all the Nordfab and the local licensed seller was cheapest.? Cheaper than Griz, etc. |
Re: BF6 parts diagram
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Re: BF6 parts diagram
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýUploaded it last week. Rick ***
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