Bill,
Thanks for the reply. I am curious what the costs of all these machines are. Would be great if Felder had them listed. At least the "List price"?
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For the saws without the display looks like the switch to select scoring on/off is on the front panel, you can see it on the k740. Imho that config would be a bit of a pain, I would end up just leaving on all the time. I have mechanical scoring so not an issue for me
I also included some pics of the k700s start stop wiring
Regards, Mark
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On Jan 26, 2020, at 8:06 PM, "david@..." <david@...> wrote:
? Thanks, Bill, that makes sense. ? Looks like they¡¯ve rethought how the scoring saw start function is controlled. ? Here¡¯s my heads-up display (two start buttons just like on the remote):
When I bought my Kappa 400 xMotion, automatic elevation of the scoring saw when it was turned on was an option. ? Looking at the Felder web site, the automatic elevation of the scoring saw is still an option (#88):
<PastedGraphic-1.tiff> The switching configuration on your machine only works properly with that option installed. ? I wonder what the switching configuration looks like when the auto-elevation system is NOT installed - particularly at the remote end.
David Best
This switch determines if the scoring starts up with the main blade or not...
Bill Belanger It would appear that Felder has changed the remote start setup - at least for the USA. ? ?My Kappa 400 xMotion has two green ON buttons for remote start - one for the main saw blade, a second one for the scoring saw. ? This photo is taken from the Felder video on their web site documenting the remote start switches, and my Kappa 400 is exactly like this, and both buttons trigger the start function wirelessly:
On that same web page is a photo that documents a START and a STOP button, and a couple of users here have confirmed their machines are configured in this manner:
I appears the single start switch turns on both the main saw blade AND the scoring unit, which would drive me absolutely crazy, since my scoring saw automatically elevates into position when turned on. ? I may be misinterpreting this and would love to hear from a user with the newer style remote if that single switch does in fact fire up both saw and scoring units. ? ?If it does not, then do you still have to crawl under the plywood sheet mounted to the slider to start the scoring unit? ??
This seems illogical to me. ? Perhaps there is another switch somewhere that configures the single remote start button as to whether it starts only the main saw, or both the main saw and scoring. ? I would much rather have independent start buttons for ?saw and scorer than a stop button, since you can easily reach the stop switch on the face of the machine after cutting panel goods.
For decades Felder has maintained that putting a remote stop switch on the slider was not allowed by regulation since it was a wireless connection, and thus ¡°unsafe¡±. ? Now it appears, based on Mark¡¯s testimony, they have added a wired circuit at least for the STOP function. ? I wonder if this setup conforms to European regulations.
David Best
My machine is a KF700 or 700S (I cant recall what the differnece is)
My slider has a remote start, but no remote stop (which is a bit frustrating).??
Having had the experience, I would go for a saw with a remote stop as it would be much more convenient (none of the stop switches are conveniently located when you are cutting big sheets).
Cheers
David
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My saw has just the start switches for both the main blade and scoring..no stop switch?
On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 03:59:55 PM PST, david@... <david@...> wrote:
It would appear that Felder has changed the remote start setup - at least for the USA. ? ?My Kappa 400 xMotion has two green ON buttons for remote start - one for the main saw blade, a second one for the scoring saw. ? This photo is taken from the Felder video on their web site documenting the remote start switches, and my Kappa 400 is exactly like this, and both buttons trigger the start function wirelessly:
On that same web page is a photo that documents a START and a STOP button, and a couple of users here have confirmed their machines are configured in this manner:
I appears the single start switch turns on both the main saw blade AND the scoring unit, which would drive me absolutely crazy, since my scoring saw automatically elevates into position when turned on. ? I may be misinterpreting this and would love to hear from a user with the newer style remote if that single switch does in fact fire up both saw and scoring units. ? ?If it does not, then do you still have to crawl under the plywood sheet mounted to the slider to start the scoring unit? ??
This seems illogical to me. ? Perhaps there is another switch somewhere that configures the single remote start button as to whether it starts only the main saw, or both the main saw and scoring. ? I would much rather have independent start buttons for ?saw and scorer than a stop button, since you can easily reach the stop switch on the face of the machine after cutting panel goods.
For decades Felder has maintained that putting a remote stop switch on the slider was not allowed by regulation since it was a wireless connection, and thus ¡°unsafe¡±. ? Now it appears, based on Mark¡¯s testimony, they have added a wired circuit at least for the STOP function. ? I wonder if this setup conforms to European regulations.
David Best
My machine is a KF700 or 700S (I cant recall what the differnece is)
My slider has a remote start, but no remote stop (which is a bit frustrating).??
Having had the experience, I would go for a saw with a remote stop as it would be much more convenient (none of the stop switches are conveniently located when you are cutting big sheets).
Cheers
David
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I do have a K500 and while the K500s has a longer chassis under the sliding table to accept longer sliders, I am not sure it is precise enough for a DRO.
By the way, the outrigger and rip fence DRO is only available starting at the 700 level according to the Felder web site.
Between the K500 and kappa, you have 4 levels: 540, 700, 740, and 940. I am sure others would chime in, but I would look at 700 series if you are hesitating about a 500 series before going upper in the levels.
I would personally go for K700 if I need DRO.
I am doing the same stuff as you plan to do, but only as a hobbyist. I am fine with my K500 when I compare my results with what I saw made by professionals. However, if I have to do it professionally I would go with DRO for ease of use and speed. No need in my case, I can take time to get the dimension right by test and error :) and use a dial caliper to get my dado blade height correct.
Bill
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Thanks, Bill, that makes sense. ? Looks like they¡¯ve rethought how the scoring saw start function is controlled. ? Here¡¯s my heads-up display (two start buttons just like on the remote):
When I bought my Kappa 400 xMotion, automatic elevation of the scoring saw when it was turned on was an option. ? Looking at the Felder web site, the automatic elevation of the scoring saw is still an option (#88):
 The switching configuration on your machine only works properly with that option installed. ? I wonder what the switching configuration looks like when the auto-elevation system is NOT installed - particularly at the remote end.
David Best
This switch determines if the scoring starts up with the main blade or not...
Bill Belanger
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
It would appear that Felder has changed the remote start setup - at least for the USA. ? ?My Kappa 400 xMotion has two green ON buttons for remote start - one for the main saw blade, a second one for the scoring saw. ? This photo is taken from the Felder video on their web site documenting the remote start switches, and my Kappa 400 is exactly like this, and both buttons trigger the start function wirelessly:
On that same web page is a photo that documents a START and a STOP button, and a couple of users here have confirmed their machines are configured in this manner:
I appears the single start switch turns on both the main saw blade AND the scoring unit, which would drive me absolutely crazy, since my scoring saw automatically elevates into position when turned on. ? I may be misinterpreting this and would love to hear from a user with the newer style remote if that single switch does in fact fire up both saw and scoring units. ? ?If it does not, then do you still have to crawl under the plywood sheet mounted to the slider to start the scoring unit? ??
This seems illogical to me. ? Perhaps there is another switch somewhere that configures the single remote start button as to whether it starts only the main saw, or both the main saw and scoring. ? I would much rather have independent start buttons for ?saw and scorer than a stop button, since you can easily reach the stop switch on the face of the machine after cutting panel goods.
For decades Felder has maintained that putting a remote stop switch on the slider was not allowed by regulation since it was a wireless connection, and thus ¡°unsafe¡±. ? Now it appears, based on Mark¡¯s testimony, they have added a wired circuit at least for the STOP function. ? I wonder if this setup conforms to European regulations.
David Best
My machine is a KF700 or 700S (I cant recall what the differnece is)
My slider has a remote start, but no remote stop (which is a bit frustrating).??
Having had the experience, I would go for a saw with a remote stop as it would be much more convenient (none of the stop switches are conveniently located when you are cutting big sheets).
Cheers
David
|
This switch determines if the scoring starts up with the main blade or not...
Bill Belanger
It would appear that Felder has changed the remote start setup - at least for the USA. ? ?My Kappa 400 xMotion has two green ON buttons for remote start - one for the main saw blade, a second one for the scoring saw. ? This photo is taken from the Felder video on their web site documenting the remote start switches, and my Kappa 400 is exactly like this, and both buttons trigger the start function wirelessly:
On that same web page is a photo that documents a START and a STOP button, and a couple of users here have confirmed their machines are configured in this manner:
I appears the single start switch turns on both the main saw blade AND the scoring unit, which would drive me absolutely crazy, since my scoring saw automatically elevates into position when turned on. ? I may be misinterpreting this and would love to hear from a user with the newer style remote if that single switch does in fact fire up both saw and scoring units. ? ?If it does not, then do you still have to crawl under the plywood sheet mounted to the slider to start the scoring unit? ??
This seems illogical to me. ? Perhaps there is another switch somewhere that configures the single remote start button as to whether it starts only the main saw, or both the main saw and scoring. ? I would much rather have independent start buttons for ?saw and scorer than a stop button, since you can easily reach the stop switch on the face of the machine after cutting panel goods.
For decades Felder has maintained that putting a remote stop switch on the slider was not allowed by regulation since it was a wireless connection, and thus ¡°unsafe¡±. ? Now it appears, based on Mark¡¯s testimony, they have added a wired circuit at least for the STOP function. ? I wonder if this setup conforms to European regulations.
David Best
My machine is a KF700 or 700S (I cant recall what the differnece is)
My slider has a remote start, but no remote stop (which is a bit frustrating).??
Having had the experience, I would go for a saw with a remote stop as it would be much more convenient (none of the stop switches are conveniently located when you are cutting big sheets).
Cheers
David
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Re: power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
John,
You might feel completely different about the Smart Stand if you had your J/P in a tight spot, or against the wall where it was difficult to get to the rear of the machine to change the elevation of the feeder unit. ? Have a look at where my Dual is positioned, and you¡¯ll see that to get to the elevation crank on the original feeder setup required puling out a ladder and reaching over to the back of the machine. ? With the Smart Stand, the feeder elevation handle is brought to the front of the machine:
David Best
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Tom this was all discussed within the last 6 months. Don't know how easy it is to search but the just of the conversation was a strong pedestal mounted to a floor or concrete wall would support a feeder. From my own experience using one on an AD951 best to use something like a F38 or equivalent with good yellow urethane wheels. Personally I think the smart stand is a complete waste of money for a PF on a jointer but that's up to your pocketbook. There are also PF's designed specifically for jointer apps.?
-------- Original message -------- Date: 2020-01-26 5:10 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
Thanks for the tip re: Smart Stand.? Yeah, it makes sense that the "lighter" models of jointer/planer made not have sufficiently robust frames to support the power feeder/bracket. That being said, in a pinch a guy could always weld some C-channel or tube steel to the frame..... -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
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Re: power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
There is more to consider here than the robustness of the chassis. ? A large feeder on the back of a lighter weight machine could easily cause the machine to fall over backward if the feeder were swiveled around and hanging out away from the machine.
David Best
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On Jan 26, 2020, at 2:10 PM, tom@... wrote:
Thanks for the tip re: Smart Stand.?
Yeah, it makes sense that the "lighter" models of jointer/planer made not have sufficiently robust frames to support the power feeder/bracket. That being said, in a pinch a guy could always weld some C-channel or tube steel to the frame.....
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
It would appear that Felder has changed the remote start setup - at least for the USA. ? ?My Kappa 400 xMotion has two green ON buttons for remote start - one for the main saw blade, a second one for the scoring saw. ? This photo is taken from the Felder video on their web site documenting the remote start switches, and my Kappa 400 is exactly like this, and both buttons trigger the start function wirelessly:
On that same web page is a photo that documents a START and a STOP button, and a couple of users here have confirmed their machines are configured in this manner:
I appears the single start switch turns on both the main saw blade AND the scoring unit, which would drive me absolutely crazy, since my scoring saw automatically elevates into position when turned on. ? I may be misinterpreting this and would love to hear from a user with the newer style remote if that single switch does in fact fire up both saw and scoring units. ? ?If it does not, then do you still have to crawl under the plywood sheet mounted to the slider to start the scoring unit? ??
This seems illogical to me. ? Perhaps there is another switch somewhere that configures the single remote start button as to whether it starts only the main saw, or both the main saw and scoring. ? I would much rather have independent start buttons for ?saw and scorer than a stop button, since you can easily reach the stop switch on the face of the machine after cutting panel goods.
For decades Felder has maintained that putting a remote stop switch on the slider was not allowed by regulation since it was a wireless connection, and thus ¡°unsafe¡±. ? Now it appears, based on Mark¡¯s testimony, they have added a wired circuit at least for the STOP function. ? I wonder if this setup conforms to European regulations.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
My machine is a KF700 or 700S (I cant recall what the differnece is)
My slider has a remote start, but no remote stop (which is a bit frustrating).??
Having had the experience, I would go for a saw with a remote stop as it would be much more convenient (none of the stop switches are conveniently located when you are cutting big sheets).
Cheers
David
|
Re: power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
Hi John!?
Yes, I found the conversation and made sure to respond to it rather than starting a new thread. I was just surprised that no one had mentioned the bracket, and wanted to see what people thought.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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My machine is a KF700 or 700S (I cant recall what the differnece is)
My slider has a remote start, but no remote stop (which is a bit frustrating).??
Having had the experience, I would go for a saw with a remote stop as it would be much more convenient (none of the stop switches are conveniently located when you are cutting big sheets).
Cheers
David
|
About to purchase my first slider. I am a small one man shop and specialize in contemporary, frameless, cabinetry.
I use KCD and process all my cabinet boxes (pre-finished maple) from a shop that has a CNC. It is affordable for me, with essentially no overhead.
I will be using the table saw for real wood countertops, real wood panels, cabinets with glass doors where the insides need to be the same material as the doors/drawers/panels, closets, built-ins and table tops.?
I thought I was set on the k500 S Professional.. But am having second thoughts in regards to the digital readout and going with a higher-end machine, such as Kappa 400.
I'm not able to see the list prices on the kappa/format's so it is difficult to research that while Felder is closed.
thoughts?
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Re: power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
Tom this was all discussed within the last 6 months. Don't know how easy it is to search but the just of the conversation was a strong pedestal mounted to a floor or concrete wall would support a feeder. From my own experience using one on an AD951 best to use something like a F38 or equivalent with good yellow urethane wheels. Personally I think the smart stand is a complete waste of money for a PF on a jointer but that's up to your pocketbook. There are also PF's designed specifically for jointer apps.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: tom@... Date: 2020-01-26 5:10 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
Thanks for the tip re: Smart Stand.? Yeah, it makes sense that the "lighter" models of jointer/planer made not have sufficiently robust frames to support the power feeder/bracket. That being said, in a pinch a guy could always weld some C-channel or tube steel to the frame..... -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
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I love the start/stop on the slider.. it just totally makes it easier to start up the main blade and scoring blade when cutting sheet goods..it was one of the main reasons I bought this particular saw. My old SCMI slider didnt have this feature and I would always have to crawl under the sheet to start up the saw.. drove me nuts
On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 01:56:03 PM PST, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Thanks guys. From responses, appears Felder has done it both ways. My K975 does not have switches on slider. It would be an interesting project to do some mod. I think a pendent is the most user friendly option. Making it wireless would be interesting.?
Would like to hear from users about pendent vs switches on slider.
Imran On Jan 26, 2020, at 10:27 PM, Bill B¨¦langer <bllblngr@...> wrote:
?
Bill Belanger? On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 10:24 Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one= [email protected]> wrote:
Bill.what saw do you have?
On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 09:21:25 AM PST, Bill B¨¦langer < bllblngr@...> wrote:
There is a set of wires that runs from the remote switches inside the table. There is also a wire that plugs from the slider to the base.
Bill Belanger On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 09:18 imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Just a curiosity. Do the on/off switches on the slider convey the signal with a wire or wirelessly? I have never seen an umbilical cord (in pics) but neither of my machines has this feature.
Looking thru the electrical schematics I noticed, IIRC, 433MHz, transmitter modules. That made me think that it is likely wireless.
BTW, how do you physically locate parts, shown on the schematic, on the machine? Anyhow,? I would not be back in shop for 6 weeks ?
Imran
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Re: power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
Thanks for the tip re: Smart Stand.?
Yeah, it makes sense that the "lighter" models of jointer/planer made not have sufficiently robust frames to support the power feeder/bracket. That being said, in a pinch a guy could always weld some C-channel or tube steel to the frame.....
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Thanks guys. From responses, appears Felder has done it both ways. My K975 does not have switches on slider. It would be an interesting project to do some mod. I think a pendent is the most user friendly option. Making it wireless would be interesting.?
Would like to hear from users about pendent vs switches on slider.
Imran On Jan 26, 2020, at 10:27 PM, Bill B¨¦langer <bllblngr@...> wrote:
?
Bill Belanger? On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 10:24 Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one= [email protected]> wrote:
Bill.what saw do you have?
On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 09:21:25 AM PST, Bill B¨¦langer < bllblngr@...> wrote:
There is a set of wires that runs from the remote switches inside the table. There is also a wire that plugs from the slider to the base.
Bill Belanger On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 09:18 imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Just a curiosity. Do the on/off switches on the slider convey the signal with a wire or wirelessly? I have never seen an umbilical cord (in pics) but neither of my machines has this feature.
Looking thru the electrical schematics I noticed, IIRC, 433MHz, transmitter modules. That made me think that it is likely wireless.
BTW, how do you physically locate parts, shown on the schematic, on the machine? Anyhow,? I would not be back in shop for 6 weeks ?
Imran
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Re: power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
Felder did not offer one with a riser in the back and David Best added a 6¡± riser on his Felder bracket to accommodate smart stand installation. Since I did not have any bracket, I designed one for my Dual51. Not that it is rocket science this Felder¡¯s bracket looks identical in basic design.
If anyone has any desire to go with a smart stand make sure that the riser is 6¡± back and 6¡±tall. This Felder bracket appears short (just from looking at proportions) on both dimensions.
Finally, I do not have A31 or A41 but from discussions here, the issue with models that are not prepped by Felder for PF installation is that there is not enough strong steel frame available on the back side.
Imran On Jan 27, 2020, at 12:59 AM, tom@... wrote:
?With my new A3-41 on track for a late-March arrival, I was reminded of this thread and had a question. Looking at the Felder catalog, there is a power feeder mounting bracket available for the AD-951 and Format/4 Plan/Dual 51 "for serial planing operations", part # 430-112:?? <Screen Shot 2020-01-26 at 1.56.36 PM.png> If someone wanted a power feeder on a A3-XX, is there a reason this wouldn't work, other than likely having to drill your own holes? I don't have immediate plans to mount a power feeder, but it's nice to have an option should I decide to pursue it.... -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
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Re: power feeder on A3-31 - possible? - Added security?
With my new A3-41 on track for a late-March arrival, I was reminded of this thread and had a question. Looking at the Felder catalog, there is a power feeder mounting bracket available for the AD-951 and Format/4 Plan/Dual 51 "for serial planing operations", part # 430-112:??  If someone wanted a power feeder on a A3-XX, is there a reason this wouldn't work, other than likely having to drill your own holes? I don't have immediate plans to mount a power feeder, but it's nice to have an option should I decide to pursue it.... -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
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Forgot to add, the stop is wired, the start is wireless on the k700s
Regards, Mark
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On Jan 26, 2020, at 11:54 AM, Mark Kessler via Groups.Io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?On the k700s it is wired, the send 24v through one of the slide rail, the cord is on the bottom of the fixed portion of the slide extrusion
Regards, Mark
On Jan 26, 2020, at 11:18 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?Just a curiosity. Do the on/off switches on the slider convey the signal with a wire or wirelessly? I have never seen an umbilical cord (in pics) but neither of my machines has this feature.
Looking thru the electrical schematics I noticed, IIRC, 433MHz, transmitter modules. That made me think that it is likely wireless.
BTW, how do you physically locate parts, shown on the schematic, on the machine? Anyhow, I would not be back in shop for 6 weeks ?
Imran
|
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 10:24 Randy Child via Groups.Io <strongman_one= [email protected]> wrote:
Bill.what saw do you have?
On Sunday, January 26, 2020, 09:21:25 AM PST, Bill B¨¦langer < bllblngr@...> wrote:
There is a set of wires that runs from the remote switches inside the table. There is also a wire that plugs from the slider to the base.
Bill Belanger On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 09:18 imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Just a curiosity. Do the on/off switches on the slider convey the signal with a wire or wirelessly? I have never seen an umbilical cord (in pics) but neither of my machines has this feature.
Looking thru the electrical schematics I noticed, IIRC, 433MHz, transmitter modules. That made me think that it is likely wireless.
BTW, how do you physically locate parts, shown on the schematic, on the machine? Anyhow,? I would not be back in shop for 6 weeks ?
Imran
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Michael Glaser
David P. Best
Bill Belanger
Tom Gensmer
imran