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Re: Joel's pics
Geoff Shepherd
That reminds me of the miniature combination machine I saw at the Seattle
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Woodworking Show... I think it was from Hegner... combination saw/router table (and maybe one other function), and even had a little sliding table. I know the micro-table saws are popular with pen turners as well - when you need to cut small pieces of expensive exotic wood, these saws do the trick and waste very little in the kerf width. ... Geoff ----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 8:55 AM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Joel's pics right , they are a table saw and thickness sander. I got them after I got the Felder and found out that I could not cut the miniature pieces I needed for the small boxes I make. They are from Preac and are precision tools, much like the Felder on a smaller scale. |
Re: solution to BF7-41 planer problem
dolsid
开云体育I had a similar problem?with a BF7-41 and hold
my breath when ever I use the planer.
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Hints on Dovetail Coupling?
Geoff Shepherd
Anyone have any tips & hints on adjusting the aluminum system extension
table for use with the dovetail coupling? It seems very tricky, and so far my attempts of following the terse instructions result in a sagging table. It seems like the lower pair of stand-off bolts take most of the weight, and the upper pair don't contact the dovetail face - if they do it just produces even more sagging. Ideas? ..Geoff |
Larry's 3-ph Diagram/Notes
Geoff Shepherd
Larry has uploaded new versions of his 3-phase wiring diagram and notes in
HTML/GIF format to the Vault. (by the way, thanks to Felder USA for also uploading an HTML version of the Special of the Month! If anyone had troubles getting it to load before, check it out now.) Larry's system turns on the 3-phase dust collector automatically whenever any of the machines are in use. Does this Auto-Switch relay have any sort of timers built in so it doesn't switch on the dust collector for a few seconds (to avoid two motors loads starting simultaneously), and another delay to run for a number of seconds after the machine is shut down to clear the pipes/hoses? If not, could this be added with additional time-delay relays? Also, I have an old article from Fine Woodworking that shows how to build automatic blast gates. I wonder if that could be integrated with this design as well. I'm going to have to dig up that article... ...Geoff |
Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?
Charlie Norton
I don't have the dovetail system, so I can't comment on it. I have worked
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our a good system for the F-type extensions and for adjusting the level of the infeed table to get it exactly in line with the outfeed table when not using the jointer: Jointer Table I zero a digital dial indicator on the infeed table referenced to itself, then tip the indicator up on it's magnetic base so that the indicator tip safely clears the blade. Then I indicate the outfeed table referenced to the infeed table (magnetic base on infeed table, indicator tip on the outfeed table), and using the palm of my hand to tap the adjusting lever, I position the infeed until the dial is zeroed. Voila! With a little practice (I got lots when I had to adjust the tables for parallelism!) you have both tables co-planar within 0.0005 inches in under 30 seconds. F-Type Extensions Obviously, this is much trickier due to the need to adjust the lower bolts. However, I figure the most important aspects of this are: 1) Making sure the two tables are exactly at the same height where they are closest to avoid "catching" of the workpiece in either direction. 2) Making sure the extension is even or rises slightly (say .005 at the end farthest from the table) ) as you move away from the table. I let it rise as I figure when I put weight on it, it will sag a bit. With this in mind, I adjust the two screws leveling the height of the extension with the method above. Be ALL screws are in contact with the table by feeling the increase in drive torque as you rotate them into the table. Tighten down the lock nuts. Then I adjust the lower bolts so that the extension rises slightly. Be sure BOTH bolts contact the table. This usually takes me a few tries. Tighten the quick lock before checking with a straight edge. Tighten down the lock nuts. Then rezero the height using the procedure above. I have found that unless I have to move the extension adjustment screws a lot, I am still within 0.005 on the plus side for the end of the table. When I first got the machine, I did not have a lot of confidence in the extensions to maintain accurate table alignment in use. I could not believe Felder didn't have custom, flat headed bolts to rest against the table. I guess the $.50 they saved per bolt was worth it to them. After some experience (not enough to speak with authority), I have been pleasantly surprised. They seem to be holding the initial alignments well. I have NOT put much weight on them yet, however. -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...> To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 6:24 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Hints on Dovetail Coupling? Anyone have any tips & hints on adjusting the aluminum system extensionand the upper pair don't contact the dovetail face - if they do it justproduces even more sagging.felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?
Geoff Shepherd
Thanks for the ideas on both the extension table and zeroing the jointer
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table. This system extension table is the dual-ended version with the flat-type coupling on the other end. The BF6 machines use dovetails couplings all around except on the slider which is flat-type. The F-type end only took me about 20 minutes to align (first-timer, you know), and I was impressed with the results. The S-type end stumped me after a good hour or so of fiddling with it. Usually I'm pretty good about figuring out the design ideas behind things like this, but this one isn't behaving the way I would expect it to. Take care.. ..Geoff ----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Norton <cnorton@...> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 8:18 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling? I don't have the dovetail system, so I can't comment on it. I have worked(snip) |
POLL: Cutting Dados
Given that the Felder machines do not normally accept a stacked dado blade set, what are your favorite/usual methods of milling dados?
---- Please select one or more of the following: o High-speed spindle, straight bits o H.S. spindle, spiral bits o H.S. spindle, Hersaf bits o Slotting cutter in shaper o Multiple passes with saw blade o Modified dado set o Hand-held router o Other by going to the following Web form: Thank you! |
Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?
I don't know if I have any special hints in adjusting the aluminum extension
table. It did take me some time and quite a bit of fiddling, but I got it to fit right and it doesn't sag. I think if you hold it up by hand so it's flush with the machine table and then adjust the screws it may help. Seems to me that's what I did ..but it was over a year ago and I don't quite remember. Good luck! Larry |
Vault reorganized
Scott Slater
I have reorganized the folders in the vault section. Since there were
quite a few files uploaded there, I thought that it would be nicer to have more organization. Inside of the Articles, News, and Reviews folder, there are now 3 separate folders; Machine Reviews, News, and Technical Information. When uploading files in the future, please upload to the appropriate folder. I also converted the .DOC files to HTML. Some of text files that were uploaded did not contain line breaks, and were difficult to read. HTML seems to be the best format for the files. To convert the DOC files, I used Microsoft Word, and exported (saved) the file as a web page. It is very easy to do, and keeps the formatting of the original document. If you have any questions feel free to email me. Scott |
Re: Hints on Dovetail Coupling?
Geoff Shepherd
The saga continues... Thursday evening once again I tried to get the
aluminum system extension table aligned to the dovetail rails on my BF6-31. I must have spent another hour on it. Unfortunately, despite positive thinking, the same result: a depressingly consistent 1-degree sag. If I adjust the screws for perfect alignment and use a goodly amount of clamping pressure, it is fine until the slightest weight is applied. Then, it sags to the same 1-degree position and rests solidly. Strangest thing. So, just for a change of pace, I decided it would be worthwhile to align the cast-iron extension - it needed aligning anyway. Piece of cake! It only took a few minutes and it is spot-on with no sagging despite heavy weight. I was impressed with the results and curious as to what could be different! OK... so I figured something was wrong with the aluminum extension table. Could it be the dovetail angle? What if the dovetail was slightly steeper on the new extension table. That would create the result I was seeing: precise adjustment, careful mounting, and heavy clamping pressure would secure the table flush, but only the tip of the dovetail would actually be clamping onto the table rail. The slightest weight on the table would cause the aluminum dovetail to pivot away from the rail dovetail, and the table would come to rest at the point the two dovetails mated against their full faces. So, with that theory to go on, I started checking dovetail angles. The critical one as I see it is the angle between the dovetail and the table surface. This should match precisely on both the rail and the extension tables so the dovetails mate solidly across their full bevel faces. My tools were admittedly crude: a Stanley sliding bevel, a flat metal rule, and a plastic protractor from an artist's supply house. With the dovetail facing up (extension tables upsidedown), I positioned the steel rule on the bevel of the dovetail, then used the sliding bevel tool from the side to copy the angle between the bevel and the table surface. I traced this angle with a fine drafting pencil onto a squared block of maple. I could then use the protractor to read the angle. The results were consistent within 1/2 a degree or better over several re-measurements. My '97 BF6-31's dovetails are all about 29-degrees in relation to the table surface. The cast iron extension that came with the machine is also at 29-degrees. This extension aligns perfectly and solidly. The new aluminum system extension table (F and S couplings) has a 30-degree dovetail. Aha! That would explain why the table wants to consistently lock down with a 1-degree sag regardless of the adjustment bolts. They can't compensate for that much difference. I talked to Felder today, and they are looking into this. I would be very interested to hear what other 6-series machine owners have for dovetail angles. Maybe it was changed at one point, or possibly I have an incorrectly milled extension table. Well, that's the theory for now. I don't think the aluminum extension table should be any more difficult to align precisely and solidly than the cast iron extensions. Something is definately different about it, and even with my crude measuring devices, it seems to be the dovetail angle. At least the F-coupling works very well so I can use it on the sliding table. I'll let you all know how this turns out. ..Geoff nibs-@... wrote: original article: =85 I don't know if I have any special hints in adjusting the aluminumextension table. It did take me some time and quite a bit of fiddling, but Igot it to fit right and it doesn't sag. I think if you hold it up by hand soit's flush with the machine table and then adjust the screws it may help.Seems to me that's what I did ..but it was over a year ago and I don'tquite remember. Good luck! |
Re: Vault reorganized
Geoff Shepherd
Scott - Thanks for taking the time to help organize the Vault... the
Articles section was getting pretty jumbled together, especially with all the varying file formats. I agree, HTML is an excellent format to upload artices with, and is even better than plain text since formatting is preserved and words reliably wrap. As you suggest, most modern word processors can Export or Save As HTML/Web format. Another alternative is to learn the rudimentaries of HTML and write articles in a plain text editor such as Windows Notepad or MacOS's SimpleText. That is what I ususally do, but then I'm a software developer by day and sometimes like doing things the "old" way! ;-) I guess doing it that way is like using hand tools, but as is often said, I get more control over the final results (can't vouch for "connecting with" the bits and bytes though). I'm very pleased with how our new forum is going! Many thanks to everyone involved! -- Geoff Shepherd (group manager) |
3-ph current draw results
Geoff Shepherd
Hi all,
Mainly out of curiosity, today I purchased a basic digital clamp-around AC ammeter ($60 Sperry DSA-400) to check the current draw on my Kay Phasemaster and Felder machines. The Phasmaster MA-1's original factory test results from two years ago show it should draw at idle 4.6A at 242VAC. My measurements show about 4.2A at 245VAC. Although this meter doesn't have a peak hold function, start up surge looked to be around 50A over several tests, but I don't know how accurate it could be in measuring these very brief surges. Since I only have only one twist-lock receptacle installed at the moment, I can only test each machine running by itself. Here are those results as measured on the single-phase supply to the phase converter: AF-22 LN 3kW/3ph (3m of 120mm hose connected to saw, 3m of 80mm hose connected to shaper, and a used but freshly cleaned pleated poly drum filter): Starting peak: ~50A Full power: 7.0A (8A with 120mm hose removed) BF6-31 2.2kW/3ph (table saw mode w/12" stock blade): Braking self-test: 4.9A Starting peak: ~40A Idling: 4.5A Remember - these results are with both the subject machine and the phase converter running. I'm not sure if I should just subtract out the phase converter idle current to get real values, or if it is more complex than that. When I get the second twist-lock recptacle installed, I'll check the 3-phase voltage balance under load and 1-phase current draw with both the BF6-31 and the AF-22 LN running simultaneously. The single-phase amp measurements were taken on each of the two hot legs inside my 30A quick disconnect to the phase converter. Curiously, there was a consistent difference about about 0.2A between the two hot lines. I'm not sure what would cause that, but maybe it has to do with the snap-clamp transformer being proximity sensitive to the metal cabinet, or just the results of not buying a more expensive meter. In any case, I took the two measurements and calculated an average. If I did this incorrectly, please somebody let me know. I'm also not sure how I should measure the current draw on the 3-phase side. Do I measure one leg, two legs, or all three and add/average the results? Not sure... ..Geoff |
Re: 3-ph current draw results
Charlie Norton
The 7.0A you measured was the current flowing to the phase converter after
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the split between the machine and the converter itself, so this is the amount of current required to generate the third phase. When you measure the three phase currents out, you will probably see the difference between the 7A and the 4.2A idle. I am always surprised at how much power the converter takes at idle. I would be curious to see how much current is flowing into each of the 3 phase legs. I wonder if the generated phase current is much different than the other two. Has anyone ever looked at the currents out of the phase converter with a current probe and an o-scope? Do they maintain anywhere near a 120 degree phasing between the three phases? Is the phasing dependant on load? -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...> To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> Date: Sunday, February 20, 2000 10:23 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] 3-ph current draw results Hi all,Phasemaster and Felder machines.3-phase voltage balance under load and 1-phase current draw with both the BF6-31and the AF-22 LN running simultaneously.felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Re: 3-ph current draw results
Geoff Shepherd
Charlie,
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I think I left out a bit of info... my two-pole quick-disconnect supplies single-phase power both to the converter as well as contributes two hot legs to the machines. The third leg comes from the converter and joins the original two hot legs. Shutting off the QD cuts all power to the converter and machines simultaneously (no chance of single phase going to the machines unless the converter failed). In other words, as I was measuring at the quick-disconnect, I was measuring the combined load of the phase converter and the powered machine(s). Check out John Renzetti's three-phase wiring diagram in the group Vault, it's what I have done for now: ,%20News,%20and%2 0Reviews/Technical%20Information/3-Phase%20Wiring%20Diagram%20-%20J%20Renzet ti.gif (yow, that's long... you might have to cut'n'paste if it doesn't work) At some point, I may do a fancier set up with a three-phase load center so I can do the automatic dust collector thing. So, last night I got my second receptacle installed and measured the combined load of the phase converter, AF-22LN, and BF6-31. That came out to about 10.5A at the quick-disconnect. I imagine it should be a bit more when the BF6-31 is doing some actual work such as planing 12" wide stock (I'll take that measurement too, just for completeness). I think John's phase converter (same model I have) is cooler running than mine - it uses only a couple amps at idle. Since mine uses about four amps at idle, it does act as a small room heater - can't complain this time of year. The future in phase conversion will probably be these microprocessor controlled inverting-type systems I keep hearing about. Didn't someone on this list retrofit a BF7-41 with one of these? I wonder how the efficiency and cost/benefit ratio is... ..Geoff ----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Norton <cnorton@...> To: <felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 8:16 AM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: 3-ph current draw results The 7.0A you measured was the current flowing to the phase converter afterthan the other two.AC showammeter ($60 Sperry DSA-400) to check the current draw on my KayPhasemasterand Felder machines. Iit should draw at idle 4.6A at 242VAC. My measurements show about 4.2A at wascan only test each machine running by itself. Here are those results as3-phase nota consistent difference about about 0.2A between the two hot lines. I'm onesure what would cause that, but maybe it has to do with the snap-clamp felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...leg, two legs, or all three and add/average the results? Not sure...felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Speaking of mini-machines...
Geoff Shepherd
We were talking about Joel's Preac machines a little bit ago. Now I
remember what I saw at the ww show - it was a Hegner Accura Mark IV combination machine. Looked like a tiny little Felder for doing small scale precision work, complete with a little sliding table if I recall correctly. I know of someone looking to sell one of these in CA to make room for a new lathe. ..Geoff |
Re: Speaking of mini-machines...
Joel Cohen
Geoff,
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I may be interested in buying a Mark IV. Do you know anything about the one that is for sale (condition, price, options, etc)? Thanks, Joel (703-323-0919, x418) jcohen@... -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:28 PM To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: [felder-woodworking] Speaking of mini-machines... We were talking about Joel's Preac machines a little bit ago. Now I remember what I saw at the ww show - it was a Hegner Accura Mark IV combination machine. Looked like a tiny little Felder for doing small scale precision work, complete with a little sliding table if I recall correctly. I know of someone looking to sell one of these in CA to make room for a new lathe. ..Geoff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked on Phonics product and you will do all three! eGroups.com home: - Simplifying group communications |
Re: Speaking of mini-machines...
John Renzetti
Joel, Advanced Machinery Imports that sells the Hegners is right near the
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New Castle County airport where our plane is based. Do you want me to check it out for you. I know a couple of the people over there. Take care, John Renzetti ----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...> To: <felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:29 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Speaking of mini-machines... Geoff,one that is for sale (condition, price, options, etc)?felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Re: Speaking of mini-machines...
Joel Cohen
John,
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That would be great!!! They are going to bring one to the Va. Show in the brginning of March for me to play with. Thanks for the response. New baby sooon???? Joel -----Original Message-----
From: John Renzetti [SMTP:J.Renzetti@...] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:43 PM To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Speaking of mini-machines... Joel, Advanced Machinery Imports that sells the Hegners is right near the New Castle County airport where our plane is based. Do you want me to check it out for you. I know a couple of the people over there. Take care, John Renzetti ----- Original Message ----- From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...> To: <felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:29 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Speaking of mini-machines... > Geoff, > > I may be interested in buying a Mark IV. Do you know anything about the one > that is for sale (condition, price, options, etc)? > > Thanks, > > Joel (703-323-0919, x418) jcohen@... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...] > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:28 PM > To: felder-woodworking@... > Subject: [felder-woodworking] Speaking of mini-machines... > > We were talking about Joel's Preac machines a little bit ago. Now I > remember what I saw at the ww show - it was a Hegner Accura Mark IV > combination machine. Looked like a tiny little Felder for doing > small > scale precision work, complete with a little sliding table if I > recall > correctly. I know of someone looking to sell one of these in CA to > make > room for a new lathe. > > ..Geoff > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: > felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Want to help promote education? Help kids learn to read? AND earn > extra income? Join our affiliate program for the successful Hooked > on Phonics product and you will do all three! > > > > eGroups.com home: > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, > electronics, Home furnishings and more. > > > -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar! > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What's the coolest new Web resource? It's the AskMe Page, which allows you to have your own Q&A platform, interact with peers and earn rewards! It's simple, fun & FREE! Get it now! Click here: -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault -- |
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