Thanks Bill. I¡¯ve noticed that mine does change, however, generally takes five minutes or so to make its mind up.
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There is a lot of information on the cheaper dust monitors on the Australian Woodworking forum and they are surprisingly good. That forum has the most dust extraction information for hobbyists in the world with some actual facts and substantiated information unlike the rubbish that is around especially on YouTube.? ?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I bought a lovely sliding saw/shaper from a gentleman in this group.
We did a facetime where he walked me through the saw, answered all manner of questions, and showed it running.??
In terms of moving it - i was able to retain the same people that had moved it once before for him.? $2,500 to have it hand-delivered in a penske lift truck door to door and was completely worth it.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:23?AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
I'll second what Marlowe said and add that if possible, I freight the machine point to point, either crated or shrink wrapped.? Terminals are horrible places built to damage machinery by forklift drivers competing to drive as fast and drop goods as hard as
possible.
Dave
I've bought many (most of my machines actually) used and remotely. It is indeed a gamble,?but I beleive?worth?it if?you are careful (luck plays a part...).? Like David K. says, you want to have enough margin to deal with any issues that are not
disclosed?or get mucked up in transport.? I have found that freight prep and shipping are often the biggest unknowns/ expenses beyond the purchase price.? Crated is always safer and saves on freight.????If you can get photos pre shipment, it will help deal
with any damage claims.? ?If I'm at all worried about?damage, I buy a separate?insurance rider from my freight broker.? ?Otherwise,?the typical damage payment you'll get from a LTL carrier is 50 cents a pound.? I always have machines delivered to a dock and
I pick up from there.? It is cheaper by a good margin and saves all the scheduling headaches of delivery to one's shop.
I purchased my KF700S used, based on a heads-up from Imran on this group and its eBay listing. I live in Saint Louis, MO and it was located near Austin, TX. I was pretty apprehensive about dropping $15k and having to drive nearly 1000 miles each way. I asked
the seller a bunch of questions which were answered quickly with many additional photos. He lost a chunk of money to eBay fees, but that also meant I had the eBay buyer protection option if things went sideways. I had to make the decision very quickly because
I didn't want to get into a bidding war and once someone else bids the "Buy it Now" option goes away.?
Net result: I got a much nicer machine than I would have ordered (2 DROs, shaper, overarm dust, large outrigger, dado blades) plus $3k in new shaper tooling and a bunch of dust hoses and Nordfab fittings. Definitely a good deal, but there was a bunch of risk.?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I'll second what Marlowe said and add that if possible, I freight the machine point to point, either crated or shrink wrapped.? Terminals are horrible places built to damage machinery by forklift drivers competing to drive as fast and drop goods as hard as
possible.
Dave
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I've bought many (most of my machines actually) used and remotely. It is indeed a gamble,?but I beleive?worth?it if?you are careful (luck plays a part...).? Like David K. says, you want to have enough margin to deal with any issues that are not
disclosed?or get mucked up in transport.? I have found that freight prep and shipping are often the biggest unknowns/ expenses beyond the purchase price.? Crated is always safer and saves on freight.????If you can get photos pre shipment, it will help deal
with any damage claims.? ?If I'm at all worried about?damage, I buy a separate?insurance rider from my freight broker.? ?Otherwise,?the typical damage payment you'll get from a LTL carrier is 50 cents a pound.? I always have machines delivered to a dock and
I pick up from there.? It is cheaper by a good margin and saves all the scheduling headaches of delivery to one's shop.
I purchased my KF700S used, based on a heads-up from Imran on this group and its eBay listing. I live in Saint Louis, MO and it was located near Austin, TX. I was pretty apprehensive about dropping $15k and having to drive nearly 1000 miles each way. I asked
the seller a bunch of questions which were answered quickly with many additional photos. He lost a chunk of money to eBay fees, but that also meant I had the eBay buyer protection option if things went sideways. I had to make the decision very quickly because
I didn't want to get into a bidding war and once someone else bids the "Buy it Now" option goes away.?
Net result: I got a much nicer machine than I would have ordered (2 DROs, shaper, overarm dust, large outrigger, dado blades) plus $3k in new shaper tooling and a bunch of dust hoses and Nordfab fittings. Definitely a good deal, but there was a bunch of risk.?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I've bought many (most of my machines actually) used and remotely. It is indeed a gamble,?but I beleive?worth?it if?you are careful (luck plays a part...).? Like David K. says, you want to have enough margin to deal with any issues that are not disclosed?or get mucked up in transport.? I have found that freight prep and shipping are often the biggest unknowns/ expenses beyond the purchase price.?
Crated is always safer and saves on freight.????If you can get photos pre shipment, it will help deal with any damage claims.? ?If I'm at all worried about?damage, I buy a separate?insurance rider from my freight broker.? ?Otherwise,?the typical damage payment you'll get from a LTL carrier is 50 cents a pound.? I always have machines delivered to a dock and I pick up from there.? It is cheaper by a good margin and saves all the scheduling headaches of delivery to one's shop.
I purchased my KF700S used, based on a heads-up from Imran on this group and its eBay listing. I live in Saint Louis, MO and it was located near Austin, TX. I was pretty apprehensive about dropping $15k and having to drive nearly 1000 miles each way. I asked the seller a bunch of questions which were answered quickly with many additional photos. He lost a chunk of money to eBay fees, but that also meant I had the eBay buyer protection option if things went sideways. I had to make the decision very quickly because I didn't want to get into a bidding war and once someone else bids the "Buy it Now" option goes away.?
Net result: I got a much nicer machine than I would have ordered (2 DROs, shaper, overarm dust, large outrigger, dado blades) plus $3k in new shaper tooling and a bunch of dust hoses and Nordfab fittings. Definitely a good deal, but there was a bunch of risk.?
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It is instantaneous for the Dylos on the display, clean air I read 100/10 - medium I read 500/50 or so - bad this is in the 2000/400 or so when I forgot to open a gate.
There is no calibration, as far as I understand a laser is used to "count/measure density" the/of particles in the air.? There are some advance function if you connect to a computer to average the measurements over long period, but I do not use it.
Bill
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Re: Felder dust collection vs cyclone
David, as you most probably know I introduced Clearvue to Oz and I very rarely sold any filters at all. The separation is so good no dust can be seen in the exhaust and no dust settling is evident at the exhaust even over a long period of time. I get why users in cold climates need to use filters and that requires very good separation if a cyclone is used and at a larger production scale "hobbyist"?cyclones have limitations that makes them unsuitable for production shops. Having said that timber yards in Oz used to have huge cyclones that made huge noise but those days are gone.?
David, I can understand your friends needing filters if they are not using a cyclone.
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I very much like having the two DROs and the precision mitre index system. However, as mentioned, the upgraded crosscut fence is extremely heavy. The cart for removing the outrigger and fence as a unit is a necessity, if you're ever going to take it off.
The precision of the DROs allows for repeatable cuts within a few thousandths. The ability to come right back to a number if you mess up a piece is invaluable.
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I purchased my KF700S used, based on a heads-up from Imran on this group and its eBay listing. I live in Saint Louis, MO and it was located near Austin, TX. I was pretty apprehensive about dropping $15k and having to drive nearly 1000 miles each way. I asked the seller a bunch of questions which were answered quickly with many additional photos. He lost a chunk of money to eBay fees, but that also meant I had the eBay buyer protection option if things went sideways. I had to make the decision very quickly because I didn't want to get into a bidding war and once someone else bids the "Buy it Now" option goes away.?
Net result: I got a much nicer machine than I would have ordered (2 DROs, shaper, overarm dust, large outrigger, dado blades) plus $3k in new shaper tooling and a bunch of dust hoses and Nordfab fittings. Definitely a good deal, but there was a bunch of risk.?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
My experience is very similar to David Kumms, the first C3 31 i owned i had the opportunity to see it in operation as i knew the owner well before i became the owner of it. Then keeping an eye on the market for 5 years or so i was still reading about similar machines to understand if id ever get back to owning a Hammer and felder so i knew enough theory about what other machines were offering and experience as to what i was after in a future machine.?
When i saw one online? forsale and i was in a position to consider it,? i had many discussions with the owner and knew enough to ask specific questions of its features and condition without seeing it to put down a significant deposit.? To then wait a while until its home was available i collected it verifying everything that was discussed and handed over final payment.
So whilst i bought it i guess i didn't hand over full payment without inspecting the machine or knowing enough to gauge the existing owners knowledge of the machine vs someone just trying to sell a machine to make some quick cash etc.? They're pretty hard to do that with given logistical challenges involved :)
Anyway hope that helps
Nathan
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I have a friend who buys and restores industrial size woodworking machines, often from auctions all over the country.? He contacts an industrial arts teacher to connect with a needy student.? He offers the student a generous payment and sends him a disposable camera for thorough photos.? Often, the purchase price is less than the shipping.? The restored machines are magnificent.? Needless?to say, he has a very large shop and ample wherewithal to enjoy his hobby.
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Hi all. in the recent post about dust collectors, the issue of dust monitoring was raised. I looked into purchasing a dust monitor sometime back and came to the conclusion that the cheap ones were rubbish and cheapest usable??one was the Dylos. Unfortunately the time I was unable to purchase one in Australia. I recently found a brand called Aithings on special for a reasonably low price. When I looked into it, they seem to have good reviews from reputable websites. The websites were ¡°tech review¡° websites, and I¡¯m not sure they had any particular expertise in dust monitoring.?
I purchased the monitor and was initially a bit concerned when the instructions said that you have to leave it for a week while it ¡°calibrates¡°. This sounds dodgy to me. The monitor changes readings over time. It mostly shows really good quality and occasionally goes into moderately bad. However, when I put it in the workshop and do some woodwork, it doesn¡¯t seem to change much at all.
So he¡¯s a question for anyone who has??a Dylos or other reliable monitor. What happens to the readings when you start say planing or sawing or any other task that produces significant dust? How do??the readings change and how fast ?
Thanks.
Murray?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I suspect a number of foggers might say that buying factory new for them qualified for this distinction.? I hope it is few!
I was just about to post this myself and you beat me to it. ?I¡¯ve had a number of fiascos with Felder over the years. ?Hardly a week goes by that some desparate soul doesn¡¯t DM me about some failure, shipping damage, missing parts, or machines configured incorrectly at the factory.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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Re: Felder Branded Machine Securement "Buttons"
Hi Shinta,
Yes, they are the ones!
Regards
Karl
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?So far digging through the stuff, the worst has been the brand new Kurt chuck showing rust on several surfaces.
I immediately went into triage mode and ignore the rust forming around me like the plague, or coronavirus, and applied WD40.
After vigorous application of Scotchbrie, the functionality remains, but the scars (stain) remain.?
The estimate just to clean up is $20k, to be followed with new insulation, plumbing, electrical, new and repaired plasterboard, and finally painting.
I did find a couple of items in the dripping wet insulation I thought lost.
Again, be sure you have freeze protection.? Winter is not yet over.
Bob
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
I've bought many.? It helps to know enough about the machine to ask detailed questions as it becomes more about judging the seller than the machine.? If the machine is rare and I want it, I'll take the chance and deal with the issues.? If just something that
is priced right, I'll go deeper into it but also give myself a decent budget for repairs and replacement.? If the seller gives me a funny feeling I run for cover.
I'll done well and done poorly.? To me it is about the challenge rather than necessity but if you don't have experience fixing and rehabbing, you are better off over paying for a slightly used hobby machine than a screaming deal on a machine with poor pictures
and a seller who doesn't give solid answers.? Some machines are a better choice as the older can be industrial vs lightly built new and you can also buy a level of machine you can't afford new.? I would not buy a used Hammer level machine but a used Format
for the price of a new 700 or a used cast ironedge or disk sander, dust collector, or heavy long bed jointer are good risks.
Dave
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Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
Just to be cute, but not helpful JP,
I suspect a number of foggers might say that buying factory new for them qualified for this distinction.? I hope it is few!
I have a friend of mine who for years has bought used weird motorcycles and cars sight unseen from around the country and has made out very well, until his last deal anyway.? But he is way ahead over time.? I would caution to say he is the most aggravating, pestering potential buyer, with weeks of detailed, complicated phone calls, emails, photos, etc. and intense price pressure, all in a very friendly way.? He is not afraid of losing deals, even for one off items.? And he has a very disciplined approach to what he will pay in the end, a result of serious research before he starts looking.? There is generic sense here.
I expect you will get more helpful replies here, as usual.
Erik
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 19:52, Patrick Kane <pwk5017@...> wrote: Hey JP,
I¡¯ve purchased a number of machines without seeing them in person first. If I remember correctly, 3-4 unisaws, 2 PM72¡¯s, a Martin t75, a Martin t17, a 12¡± grizzly jointer, an Oliver 232, a northfield Unipoint, Felder KF700, a 500mm Italian jointer, and a Laguna LT20. Bunch of festool stuff as well. It all depends on the deal and how competent you are at assessing something through crappy photos and talking to the owner. There¡¯s some stuff that you just buy and assume the risk because the deal is good enough. For example, both of those vintage Martin saws cost me $500+ shipping. In both cases, I almost didn¡¯t care if the machines ran, because I could spend $2,000+ repairing them and still be in good shape.?
By far the biggest issue with remote transactions is rigging/transport. You might get lucky and have a seller with a forklift or similar on site to handle the loading for you, but that¡¯s only the case half the time. The other half you are on your own and it sucks. Then you have to worry about some monkey carrier jacking up your machine in transit. Finally, the day of delivery you also have to dedicate the day to being on call waiting for it to arrive. One of the only times I used Uship, the guys came at 2 in the freaking morning. I actually think I unloaded the Martin t17 at 2am. It¡¯s one of the reasons I rarely use that crackhead service.?
What are you looking at? As you can tell, most of my remote purchases were potential project machines where the risk was fairly low. The Felder is the one example of it being an ¡®expensive¡¯ machine where I would have been in the hole had anything been damaged/missing. Thankfully, it came from an old doctor that barely used it for 10-12 years.?
Patrick Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Re: Buying a used machine without seeing in person
Hey JP,
I¡¯ve purchased a number of machines without seeing them in person first. If I remember correctly, 3-4 unisaws, 2 PM72¡¯s, a Martin t75, a Martin t17, a 12¡± grizzly jointer, an Oliver 232, a northfield Unipoint, Felder KF700, a 500mm Italian jointer, and a Laguna LT20. Bunch of festool stuff as well. It all depends on the deal and how competent you are at assessing something through crappy photos and talking to the owner. There¡¯s some stuff that you just buy and assume the risk because the deal is good enough. For example, both of those vintage Martin saws cost me $500+ shipping. In both cases, I almost didn¡¯t care if the machines ran, because I could spend $2,000+ repairing them and still be in good shape.?
By far the biggest issue with remote transactions is rigging/transport. You might get lucky and have a seller with a forklift or similar on site to handle the loading for you, but that¡¯s only the case half the time. The other half you are on your own and it sucks. Then you have to worry about some monkey carrier jacking up your machine in transit. Finally, the day of delivery you also have to dedicate the day to being on call waiting for it to arrive. One of the only times I used Uship, the guys came at 2 in the freaking morning. I actually think I unloaded the Martin t17 at 2am. It¡¯s one of the reasons I rarely use that crackhead service.?
What are you looking at? As you can tell, most of my remote purchases were potential project machines where the risk was fairly low. The Felder is the one example of it being an ¡®expensive¡¯ machine where I would have been in the hole had anything been damaged/missing. Thankfully, it came from an old doctor that barely used it for 10-12 years.?
Patrick
Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Buying a used machine without seeing in person
Has anyone bought a machine without seeing it? Did it go well, why or why not? What would you do differently?
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Re: Felder Bf6-31 compact. Motor brake gone pop
Hi Alex,
Yes, a wiring diagram. Sharing what I have but you should have a copy of yours. Now a days, it is placed in a pouch on the inside face of the electrical cabinet cover but not sure what they did back then.
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On Jan 23, 2024, at 5:59?PM, alexmoore4@... wrote: ?Hello Imran,
thanks for your kind response. ?I¡¯ll have a look for those components you mention tomorrow. I¡¯m not an electrician, although my brother is and if I can make it easier for him, all the better. I¡¯m guessing a schematic is a wiring diagram ?
Many thanks?
Alex
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Nathan D'Elboux
Jim Fleming
David P. Best
imran