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blades talk
Scott Slater
With all this talk about blades on the table saw, and me not even having a
Felder table saw to use (until May), I feel left out. But, today I bought a Lenox Tri Master Carbide blade for my bandsaw (not a Felder but an Agazzani), it is incredible. I cannot believe how well it cuts, much faster feed rate, much smoother finish. They are not cheap (200$) but worth every penny. It might even make the Laguna, I mean Felder, work well... Scott Slater scott@... www.studiouw.com |
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Re: Table saw blade noise
My tablesaw noise doesn't sound extrordinarily loud. It does have a
"serious, industrial" powerful sound to it though. I also used to have a BT 3000, like Charlie, and it was anoyingly loud. I also got into the habit of wearing ear protectors, in reaction to many other horrendously loud tools, such as a bench top portable planner, Sears shop vac :( ,etc. My KF-7 is 3 phase, I haven't heard a single phase machine, that is interesting though, that there is a noise level difference. I think the ear protectors are a good habit, besides, when the nurse comes to tell me that my 80 year old son is in the lobby to visit me (he's 31 now), maybe I'll be able to hear her ;) Taylor "geoff shepherd" <geof-@...> wrote: original article: =213 Another question for the group...than a typical 10" cabinet saw. Most of the noise is a loud high-pitchedwooshing of air, and both of my 12" blades (one a Felder, the other a Forrest)create about the same intensity of noise. The higher the blade is raised, theis more tolerable, but that doesn't do much for cutting wood. Two other"man, that's loud" in regards to the table saw. So, this is all subjective,but it is quite noticeable. I was hoping it was just the Felder blade thatwas noisy, but was disappointed to find my new Forrest blade is just asloud. running 20% faster on 60 Hz power vs. 50 Hz, or is there a different pulleyratio for US-destined machines to compensate for this? |
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Re: Table saw blade noise
Philip Tamarkin
...at 4000 rpm/12" blade, you're at 12,500+ peripheral ft/minute which is pretty fast.
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Wouldn't you have to have pronounced run-out to make a real difference in noise? Possibility of a bad bearing transmitting and amplifying through the blade? Sympathetic vibration from something else on the machine resonating in sync w/the blade? Interesting problem! BTW, my saw is a single phase Rod Barton wrote: Geoff, |
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Re: Table saw blade noise
Geoff,
Wow, here I thought it was the aroma of Tacoma that was making my blades run louder, but it's the air ehh. Actually I did find that the 12" blade running on the Felder has a noticeably more powerful sound to it than my old Delta 10". I believe the Felder runs at about 4000 RPM vs. 3600 RPM for most 10" saws which would account for the increased pitch in sound. I've found that I can cut faster and have a lot less tearout when cutting my morning bagel now with the Felder so the coffee is still hot when I get done. If you think that you are getting an excessively high pitched sound, you might want to use a dial indicator to check the run-out on your blades. The run-out or wobble as some call it, will increase blade sound enough to drive you out of the shop. I'm sure you are aware it's best to completely disconnected from the power source prior to checking the blades. If you find that there is no noticeable run-out the only other suggestion I have is to stuff a little more cotton into the old ear protectors because what you are hearing is an industrial saw at work. Re: Mortis Cutter Bits. I was thinking about checking Boeing surplus for cutters. A lot of times they have excess bins stuffed with end mills and such. philip tamarkin <tamarki-@...> wrote: original article: =219 If you're not getting a good kerf running the saw without a blade youneed to raise the splitter a bit - should sit about 1/4" below where the top of theblade would be if there was a blade there.(Excalibur...) that I've hung from the ceiling. it's got good dust collection, so maybe it sucksup noise along with the dust! I'll try running the saw tomorrow w/o the guard to see ifit changes the noise levels...might want to bring it into your shop in thin sheets to lessen the load on thesaw... ability to read the nameplate rpms on the sawmotor could probably figure out the arborrpms pretty damn fast! Best, Philip(in to thetable saw mode), which was louder than a good contractor's saw due BF6-31 hasvariable speed Reeves drive system. Cutting performance on the reduced thebeen satisfactory so far, just very noisy. The other way I've problemnoise is by removing the blade entirely, but then I seem to have a the bladeswith the kerf not forming at all. Not sure what's up with that. side guardsjust get all buzzed up with caffeine or something. a longerto help contain the noise, offer additional protection, and provide hand, iflifting ramp in front to ride up on approaching stock. On the other rathermy saw is just running too fast, then that's patching the symptom probablythan finding the cure. that orgo pick up one of those sound-level meters from Radio Shack. Either the 12"go completely Neanderthal... :-) fancy-schmantzyblades. I've got the Felder standard universal and the department must"Silent Power" blades - the Silent Power (God, the marketing Bought astay up late thinking of these names!) is probably a tad quieter. bestTenryu panel blade that I'm using currently, and highly recommend - Ifblade I've ever used out of the box - similar volume to the others. - optimumFelder doesn't modify the drive pulleys for 60hz/50hz they need to minute - muchblade speed should be right around 10,000 peripheral feet per willfaster than that and you'll be doing more burning than cutting, and local air -probably kill blades pretty quickly. iswhere do you live? I'm in Mendocino county, and maybe the air here explain thethinner and causes less resistance to the blade! Might also -----plethora of air-heads that we have around here!! -Philip ribe@...To Post a message, send it to: felder-woodworking@... |
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Re: Table saw blade noise
Charlie Norton
My original machine was single phase and it was somewhat noisier than the 3
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phase I have now. The scream of the blade through the air is the same, but the cabinet noise is much reduced. The air noise of the blade is very apparent with the Felder...I thought I was the only one who noticed. I used to have a Ryobi BT3000 which was very noisy. I got into the habit of wearing ear protection, so I haven't really been too sensitive to the sounds from the Felder. I would be surprised if Felder had not accounted for the fact that US machines are run from 60 Hz, what with the safety issues involved. -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...> To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...> Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 6:45 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Table saw blade noise Another question for the group...a typical 10" cabinet saw. Most of the noise is a loud high-pitched wooshingcreate about the same intensity of noise. The higher the blade is raised, theit is quite noticeable. I was hoping it was just the Felder blade that wasfelder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Re: Mortising Table
Richard McComas
Real men don't need a mortiser transporter.
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The reason I'm not a real man is I got to thinking how much it would cost me if I was to accidentally dropped the unit while manhandling it. Also if I was to twist the wrong way when lifting the 120 lb. my chiropractor charges $ 100.00 a visit and besides that I could use a smaller beer bottle holder. Rich Philip Tamarkin wrote: ...use the mortiser happily with end mills - Reid Supply has a good selection, particularly |
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Re: Table saw blade noise
Philip Tamarkin
If you're not getting a good kerf running the saw without a blade you need to raise the
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splitter a bit - should sit about 1/4" below where the top of the blade would be if there was a blade there. I've got my saw set up with a nice overarm guard system (Excalibur...) that I've hung from the ceiling. it's got good dust collection, so maybe it sucks up noise along with the dust! I'll try running the saw tomorrow w/o the guard to see if it changes the noise levels... The Seattle thick fog explains everything. That stuff is dense! You might want to bring it into your shop in thin sheets to lessen the load on the saw... A smart guy with some measuring equipment for the pulleys and the ability to read the nameplate rpms on the sawmotor could probably figure out the arbor rpms pretty damn fast! Best, Philip Geoff Shepherd wrote: Interesting... this saw runs with more noise than even my Shopsmith (in |
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Re: Mortising Table
Philip Tamarkin
Let's make a list of all the "optional" acccessories that are essential
to the efficient operation of the machine!? That's why a saw that
lists for around ten grand usually ends up closer to fifteen by the time
you're done hanging the "optional accessories" on it!? My current
dream configuration involves spending about 3K on an outrigger and crosscut
fence (and retrofit 2 meter table, as long as I've got the damn thing apart)
- thirty years in cabinetmaking, and never saw a sliding saw without this
"option."
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Geoff Shepherd wrote: Thanks, everyone for the comments (thus far!) on the mortising table and |
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Re: Table saw blade noise
Geoff Shepherd
Interesting... this saw runs with more noise than even my Shopsmith (in
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table saw mode), which was louder than a good contractor's saw due to the variable speed Reeves drive system. Cutting performance on the BF6-31 has been satisfactory so far, just very noisy. The other way I've reduced the noise is by removing the blade entirely, but then I seem to have a problem with the kerf not forming at all. Not sure what's up with that. Here in the Seattle area the air is thick like good coffee. Maybe the blades just get all buzzed up with caffeine or something. I have considered modifying the clear crown guard with pivoting side guards to help contain the noise, offer additional protection, and provide a longer lifting ramp in front to ride up on approaching stock. On the other hand, if my saw is just running too fast, then that's patching the symptom rather than finding the cure. Given my sometimes preoccupation with quiet-running tools, I should probably go pick up one of those sound-level meters from Radio Shack. Either that or go completely Neanderthal... :-) ...Geoff ----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Tamarkin To: felder-woodworking@... Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2000 7:04 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Table saw blade noise My BF-5 runs quietly compared to my earlier cabinet saws, even with the 12" blades. I've got the Felder standard universal and the fancy-schmantzy "Silent Power" blades - the Silent Power (God, the marketing department must stay up late thinking of these names!) is probably a tad quieter. Bought a Tenryu panel blade that I'm using currently, and highly recommend - best blade I've ever used out of the box - similar volume to the others. If Felder doesn't modify the drive pulleys for 60hz/50hz they need to - optimum blade speed should be right around 10,000 peripheral feet per minute - much faster than that and you'll be doing more burning than cutting, and will probably kill blades pretty quickly. On reflection, I think your noise problem may be related to your local air - where do you live? I'm in Mendocino county, and maybe the air here is thinner and causes less resistance to the blade! Might also explain the plethora of air-heads that we have around here!! -Philip |
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Re: Mortising Table
Geoff Shepherd
Thanks, everyone for the comments (thus far!) on the mortising table and
cutters. It is on my "someday" list... sooner or later, that is. Regarding the carriage for it, I just thought it peculiar that the rolling carriage was an optional accessory when it seems like one would not want to do without it. Then again, if I got to the gym like I should, maybe it could be an option. <lift!> Hurrrrrg! <ooh! ouch!> ..Geoff |
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Re: Table saw blade noise
Philip Tamarkin
My BF-5 runs quietly compared to my earlier cabinet saws, even with the
12" blades.? I've got the Felder standard universal and the fancy-schmantzy
"Silent Power" blades - the Silent Power (God, the marketing department
must stay up late thinking of these names!) is probably a tad quieter.?
Bought a Tenryu panel blade that I'm using currently, and highly recommend
- best blade I've ever used out of the box - similar volume to the others.?
If Felder doesn't modify the drive pulleys for 60hz/50hz they need to -
optimum blade speed should be right around 10,000 peripheral feet per minute
- much faster than that and you'll be doing more burning than cutting,
and will probably kill blades pretty quickly.
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On reflection, I think your noise problem may be related to your local air - where do you live?? I'm in Mendocino county, and maybe the air here is thinner and causes less resistance to the blade!? Might also explain the plethora of air-heads that we have around here!!? -Philip Geoff Shepherd wrote: Another question for the group... |
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Re: Mortising Table
Philip Tamarkin
...use the mortiser happily with end mills - Reid Supply has a good selection, particularly
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extra-long sizes. It isn't any big deal to pull the mortiser off without the cute 'lil carriage that Felder sells, though I admit that mine lives on the machine unless I have a substantial amount of jointing to do. REAL men won't have any trouble removing and replacing the mortiser without the carriage. In my shop, anything on wheels becomes a catchall for spare tools, beer bottles, etc! -Philip Richard McComas wrote: Geoff, I have a AD-41 with the mortising unit that hangs on the side. I have tried |
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Table saw blade noise
Geoff Shepherd
Another question for the group...
It seems to me that the saw on my BF6-31 is two or three times louder than a typical 10" cabinet saw. Most of the noise is a loud high-pitched wooshing of air, and both of my 12" blades (one a Felder, the other a Forrest) create about the same intensity of noise. The higher the blade is raised, the louder it gets. When it is lowered below the surface of the table, it is more tolerable, but that doesn't do much for cutting wood. Two other woodworking friends I have demo'd the machine for have commented, "man, that's loud" in regards to the table saw. So, this is all subjective, but it is quite noticeable. I was hoping it was just the Felder blade that was noisy, but was disappointed to find my new Forrest blade is just as loud. Is this just the nature of a 12" blade? Could it be that the saw is running 20% faster on 60 Hz power vs. 50 Hz, or is there a different pulley ratio for US-destined machines to compensate for this? ...Geoff |
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Re: Mortising Table
Richard McComas
Geoff, I have a AD-41 with the mortising unit that hangs on the side. I have tried
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the Felder bits as well as the regular up and down spiral bits like you get from Jesada and a spiral end mill bit. I haven't used any of the bits for an extended period so I may change my mind latter but for now I see no difference in the quality of the cut between any of the bits mentioned. A John R stated the Felder bits are the easiest to center up but for me I find the Felder bits a littler harder to control the depth of the cut. They seem to respond quicker than the other bits and tent to cut to deep and that makes the sideways cutting action little more difficult. This problem may be just that I need a littler more practice with them. I see no difference between the carbide spiral bits and spiral end mills bits, they both cut clean mortises and I believe the end mills bits are a bit more aggressive than carbide spiral bits . The end mills and carbide spiral bits take more presser on the joy stick and the bits doesn't cut as fast but gives me more control. Of course the cost of the end mills make them attractive but I don't know what their longevity is compared to the others. One other thing in favor of the Felder bits is the length, the are quite bit longer than the others. Rich Geoff Shepherd wrote: Since my used BF6-31 didn't come with the mortising table, I'm sure I will |
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Re: Mortising Table
dolsid
I have used bits I have for making mortises with a plunging router.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Shepherd" <geoff@...> To: <felder-woodworking@...> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 1:23 PM Subject: [felder-woodworking] Mortising Table Since my used BF6-31 didn't come with the mortising table, I'm sure I willmortising bits: "precision bits", and well, I guess that would make the other kindwhat other folks are using and why.felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...
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Re: Mortising Table
John Renzetti
Geoff, I knew I should have sent out tests after I wrote those
newsletters, just to check and see if you guys were reading them. :) I've used both the Felder HSS precision bits and the Clico bits. With the Clico's you can plunge deeper on the first cut, but I found the Felders cut better and were much easier to center up.The difference in speed was negligible. The Felders gave a cleaner cut. The Felder bits were also cheaper than the Clico's which are carried by Garrett Wade, I got a couple of them from a friend in the UK and they are much cheaper there. There is no reason why you couldn't use end mills. From what I understand use the double fluted ones. You also use HSS spirals from Onstrud. As far as using the mortising unit without the carriage,unless you are into weight lifting and body building get the transporter. The mortiser must weigh about 120lbs. The transporter makes things much easier. Talk to you later, John Renzetti Chadds Ford, PA geoff shepherd" <geof-@...> wrote: original article: =209 Since my used BF6-31 didn't come with the mortising table, I'm sure Iwill eventually get one on order. I see there are at least two kinds ofmortising bits: "precision bits", and well, I guess that would make the otherkind "sloppy bits." :-) What about using spiral end mills? I'm justcurious what other folks are using and why. |
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Mortising Table
Geoff Shepherd
Since my used BF6-31 didn't come with the mortising table, I'm sure I will
eventually get one on order. I see there are at least two kinds of mortising bits: "precision bits", and well, I guess that would make the other kind "sloppy bits." :-) What about using spiral end mills? I'm just curious what other folks are using and why. Does anyone use the mortising table without the optional carriage? Thanks for your comments. ..Geoff |
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Re: Okay, I'm impressed
John Hartshorne
Hi Eric,
No question those were great ribs, Hope to see you during my next trip through Hows the employment market did you find something . Are you building anything? Hows the shop coming along? Talk to you soon, JH erik friis <efrii-@...> wrote: original article: =205 Hi Joe,chance to tell you on Badger Pond. Re support on Saturdays and Sundays, just call JH athome...collect ;-) |
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Re: BF6-31
Mark Rupersburg
?
Wolfgang; The machine I was referring to is listed below with a description copied from your web page.? The previous owner, Jim Sekely, wrote me that it is in excellent condition.? Is it available? Regards, Mark
Geiger wrote: Mark,
?????? Woodworking System ????????? 78-08/544-92 ?????????? Year 1992
???????????????????????????? 12" Jointer/Planer, 4 knife cutterblock ???????????????????????????? 1 1/4" tilting shaper ???????????????????????????? 12" titling saw, 68" sliding table with 1100 crosscut fence ????????????????????????????
mortiser, wheel kit and 2 cast iron table extensions, 1 ALU
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Owner Jim Sekely ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
jimsekely@...
? |
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Felder service, the Best
Hello All,
Thought it was past time for me to chime in here with a few cents. First I'd like to thank John Renzetti for all the help he gave me in configuring my new KF-7 last year. We all know what a head-wrecker that can be for first time Felder customers. I'd also like to thank Geoff for starting up this forum for us, great idea. The information posted here is very helpful and appreciated. On Felder service, it's second to none. Sure, it's one thing to work some weekends, but going beyond the call of duty is also the norm for Felder service on weekdays, too. Re, last week John Hartshorne didn't leave my home/shop till after 7PM, and he still had at least a 1 1/2hr drive back to Sacramento. That's pretty late to get to sit down to dinner:( So, even though JH may not be out of state on a service/business trip, he is still putting some very long hours right in his own "backyard". Thanks for your extrodinary efforts JH, we appreciate you. Safe Woodworking to All, John Taylor |
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