Re: help pricing a used tool
BTW, love the shop space and very nice pics.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:28 PM, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote: ? Thanks Imran,?
I have some showing these but they are at a weird angle, but Ill get some more head on shots. ?Good idea
You may already have the following pics of the machine.
pic of machine label
switches on slider (if you have them)
front and back machine panels showing control knob and elevation handles
shaper spindle raised/tilted and a closeup of switches on the side of the machine.?
Imran On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote: ?I took a few photos today. ?I have a bunch more to post (showing the most glaring cosmetic scratches and issue in detail) but would love any critical feedback before putting together a listing. ? thanks again,? Anthony? <Outside_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0002.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0003.jpg> <Slider_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00002.jpg>
|
Re: help pricing a used tool
Agree. Saw front elevation and control switch but i like to be able to read labels or any written info on the controls. People not familiar with the machine will gain more knowledge and hopefully less explaining.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:28 PM, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote: ? Thanks Imran,?
I have some showing these but they are at a weird angle, but Ill get some more head on shots. ?Good idea
You may already have the following pics of the machine.
pic of machine label
switches on slider (if you have them)
front and back machine panels showing control knob and elevation handles
shaper spindle raised/tilted and a closeup of switches on the side of the machine.?
Imran On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote: ?I took a few photos today. ?I have a bunch more to post (showing the most glaring cosmetic scratches and issue in detail) but would love any critical feedback before putting together a listing. ? thanks again,? Anthony? <Outside_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0002.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0003.jpg> <Slider_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00002.jpg>
|
Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Annu,
Just humming is what happens with start cap failure. Since all motors do it, it matches what you would expect with cap failure.
Selector switch appears to be fine as it is selecting saw, shaper and J/P (saw and shaper are not selected when J/P is selected).
The thing that does not line up is the racket you mention regarding planer motor. It is doing something diff than the other two.
You could have more than a single failure mode. If you have the new caps I would replace them and see if anything changes.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:14 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?hey Imran,?
Here are the various combinations of things that happen.??
When all the motors are plugged in:
1. If I have the mode switch in the planer position and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a racket and surges back and forth without me touching the start button.
1a. If I lift up the planer table so that the limit switch is open, have the mode switch in the planer position, and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a humming noise without me touching the start button.
2. If I put the mode switch in table saw or shaper, have all the limit switches in the closed position, and turn on the circuit breaker, planer still makes a humming noise.
3.? I tried with the planer motor disconnected.? When the circuit breaker is turned on, there is no noise at all, confirming that the humming from #2 was comming from the planer motor.? If I push the on button in either table saw or shaper mode, their respective motors start making a humming noise
When i talk about the limit switches, i'm talking about the one on the shaper door and the one under the planer table.? Open means that it is not in the run position and closed that it is in the run poisition.? I made sure that the one on the shaper door was in the middle position.? the E-Stop was pulled out in all scenarios above.? The humming noise is the same as when i used the turn off the machine previously and the e-brake was engaged.
Could it be that the position switch is not working correctly since there is some power going to the planer motor if it is plugged in and I turn on the circuit breaker?
Thanks,?
Annu
|
Re: help pricing a used tool
Thanks Imran,?
I have some showing these but they are at a weird angle, but Ill get some more head on shots. ?Good idea
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You may already have the following pics of the machine.
pic of machine label
switches on slider (if you have them)
front and back machine panels showing control knob and elevation handles
shaper spindle raised/tilted and a closeup of switches on the side of the machine.?
Imran On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote: ?I took a few photos today. ?I have a bunch more to post (showing the most glaring cosmetic scratches and issue in detail) but would love any critical feedback before putting together a listing. ? thanks again,? Anthony? <Outside_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0002.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0003.jpg> <Slider_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00002.jpg>
|
Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
hey Imran,?
Here are the various combinations of things that happen.??
When all the motors are plugged in:
1. If I have the mode switch in the planer position and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a racket and surges back and forth without me touching the start button.
1a. If I lift up the planer table so that the limit switch is open, have the mode switch in the planer position, and then turn on the circuit breaker, the planer makes a humming noise without me touching the start button.
2. If I put the mode switch in table saw or shaper, have all the limit switches in the closed position, and turn on the circuit breaker, planer still makes a humming noise.
3.? I tried with the planer motor disconnected.? When the circuit breaker is turned on, there is no noise at all, confirming that the humming from #2 was comming from the planer motor.? If I push the on button in either table saw or shaper mode, their respective motors start making a humming noise
When i talk about the limit switches, i'm talking about the one on the shaper door and the one under the planer table.? Open means that it is not in the run position and closed that it is in the run poisition.? I made sure that the one on the shaper door was in the middle position.? the E-Stop was pulled out in all scenarios above.? The humming noise is the same as when i used the turn off the machine previously and the e-brake was engaged.
Could it be that the position switch is not working correctly since there is some power going to the planer motor if it is plugged in and I turn on the circuit breaker?
Thanks,?
Annu
|
Re: help pricing a used tool
You may already have the following pics of the machine.
pic of machine label
switches on slider (if you have them)
front and back machine panels showing control knob and elevation handles
shaper spindle raised/tilted and a closeup of switches on the side of the machine.?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:36 PM, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote: ?I took a few photos today. ?I have a bunch more to post (showing the most glaring cosmetic scratches and issue in detail) but would love any critical feedback before putting together a listing. ? thanks again,? Anthony? <Outside_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0002.jpg> <Outside_2021_01_12_0003.jpg> <Slider_2021_01_12_0001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00001.jpg> <Top_2021_01_12_00002.jpg>
|
Re: help pricing a used tool
|
Re: help pricing a used tool
I believe felder also has a site that they use for used machines - if you are interested in that may be worth asking
On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 8:29 PM Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote: Always appreciate the feedback Imran,?
I also have had some good success with Craigslist.? This was when I was in California so it was a bigger market, but I look forward to giving it a go in Maine and see what happens.? Ill look into a pen too, not a bad idea.? I've done craigslist deals in banks and police stations, but will be hard to do this one anywhere but at my house which always makes me a bit nervous. ?
thanks for the insights?
|
Re: help pricing a used tool
Always appreciate the feedback Imran,?
I also have had some good success with Craigslist. ?This was when I was in California so it was a bigger market, but I look forward to giving it a go in Maine and see what happens. ?Ill look into a pen too, not a bad idea. ?I've done craigslist deals in banks and police stations, but will be hard to do this one anywhere but at my house which always makes me a bit nervous. ?
thanks for the insights?
|
Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
I believe sheet 15 covers J/P motor. Is there sound in video? I do not have sound and really not seeing much happening.
So no change with ebrake board replaced. I assume you connected the motor wires.
Does saw and shaper work normally?
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:04 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?Hey Imran, I attached a picture of the schematic and a very short video of what happens when I turn on the circuit breaker. ?I did just change out the ebrake board and this is still happening. -Annu
<image.jpg> <63219257286__75572D77-C17D-440F-8401-A60F1EE3B4D6.MOV>
|
Re: help pricing a used tool
Thanks Joe,?
Very helpful indeed. ?I think I will sell the saw package as a unit and offer accessories that I will likely not need on a upgrade as an option. ?But I will be holding on to my tooling and aftermarket upgrades. ?
thanks again,?
Anthony?
|
Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Hamish,
Your ? of how serious of a hobbyist I am is interesting...sometimes hard to define yourself :).? I am 62 and until the last year or two hadn't touched woodworking since High School.? I started looking in the mirror a few years ago and said I need some hobbies.? Woodworking seemed attractive so I started researching tools.? I have been very blessed with having some resources from my life's work and my perfectionist, buy a tool once obsession drives me to analyze my purchases in great detail.? The opinions of people like you and groups like this help me a lot.? With that said my projects so far have involved woods with interesting grain patterns, plenty of knots and character.? I may be weird but I seem to get pleasure out of taking a rough sawn board and discovering as I surface all sides and lay the boards out how the look turns out.? I usually epoxy most knots that seem unstable. So with that said I feel the jointer/planer I have is the heart and soul of my hobby.? I am making things that will outlast me for friends, family and charities.? My 6" old rusty Delta jointer and and Dewalt planer just don't seem to be enough.? I would like to have less tear out on knots, be able to make something without having to glue a bunch of 6" boards together, get rid of the snip that is almost impossible to get rid of on my Delta 6" jointer.? I have the resources to buy an A3-41 but don't have the runway to make a bad take off.? I say that all with much thanks and respect for all who their ideas and opinions and thoughts yours was spot on.
|
Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Hey Imran,
I attached a picture of the schematic and a very short video of what happens when I turn on the circuit breaker. ?I did just change out the ebrake board and this is still happening.
-Annu
|
Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
When straight knives nick, I just shift the offending one in one direction or the other.? You do need to make sure it doesn't hit anything but on my machines there is usually 1/4" or more of length in the head than necessary for the knives.? If not, I order
knives a little short.? I can usually get quite a few nicks in the blades ( Tersa too ) before changing the whole set.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Lucky, In the context of having to change or rotate every single individual blade on a helical cutterhead, I would agree with you.
In practical use, as a serious hobbyist, or small fine woodworking business, the solid carbide cutters stay sharp many times longer than the standard blades. This means you don't need to change anywhere near as often. If you're a small volume, high quality
worker, it could be many years before you need to.
?It also means if you get a nick in a helical carbide blade you can rotate the offending 1-2 blades. With regular knives if you get a nick, you have to change out the whole set.
I would also agree that straight grained purpleheart planes very well with regular knives. The fiddleback stuff gives me nightmares just thinking about it. Helical cutters no prob.
Where the helical cutterhead really shines is things like laminated cutting boards. I usually do several small batches a year. Sometimes, I make the mistake of orienting a laminate, the with the grain of one running in the opposite direction to all the
others. You get a nasty surprise when try to flatten it after glue up, with the tear out on that one area, using regular blades. With a helical cutterhead, there is no problem. Straight to finish sanding, no time consuming divetts to sand out.
The machine I have is about 11 years old. I believe Tersa blades might have been an option at the time(???). I had the regular reversible blades, until I changed out the cutterhead last year for a helical. The reversible blades would be slower than Tersa,
to change, but I didn't mind so much because I was used to the old style jointers, ancient method of using wrenches, where you tighten one bolt and the knives would move out of alignment somewhere else, and it takes hours to get a decent change.
I'm down here in Australia, where most of our hardwoods make working with oak feel like a softwood, and also have an abrasive high silica content to boot. I really notice the difference, when working with fine Northern hemisphere woods like walnut, cherry,?
maple, or oak. They feel like planing butter in comparison.?
Hamish.
Very pertinent points Hamish.
But what about David¡¯s rejoinder about the speed issue of changing out blades? Your reference to ¡°a lot less time consuming¡± in change over is simply untrue. Maybe you¡¯re thinking about older machines which do not have indexed straight knives?
Even then, I¡¯m not sure you¡¯d be correct. Tell us more!
Many share your opinions, but this matter (straight versus helical) is absolutely not a ¡°no brainer¡±. I¡¯m a fine furniture maker, professional, and I use many exotic timbers, including Purple Heart (although not very often; you lucky bugger!!
:-). A new set of Tersa blades (which take two minutes to install) cuts Purple Heart very well indeed. You might agree, that the cutter head diameter (5¡± or larger; versus 4¡± or smaller) plays a very large part in whether there is tear-out. Thoughts?
So, to be clear, I¡¯m comparing your comments with my experience with half a dozen thicknessers, including my current machine which is a Dual 51, 5¡± cutter head with Tersa knife system. I love the Tersa system.
Lucky
Dave you are correct regarding the type of material you mainly use having an effect on finish quality. Say if you had exclusive access to clear, straight grained softwood, or mahogany,
you get a quality better finish from straight knives.
If you are a fine woodworker then even if you are using top quality softwood, you are still going to have to handplane or finish sand for the best surface.?
If you are doing entry level, high volume production work in softwood, and can get good quality wood, I'd go for conventional blades.
If you work with many different woods, hardwoods, highly figured woods, less than perfect grain or knots, regular blades can give you serious tear out. After planing some fiddleback
purple heart, for a small tabletop, with regular knives, I needed to spend the best part of a full week scraping, then sanding the top smooth enough to get a top quality finish.
Not something you want to do when time =money.
Horses for courses, when we're talking about specificity. For many and varied tasks I'd choose a helical cutterhead, for its versatility?
?Hamish.
Hamish - I agree will everything except helical head.?
Too many people say that like it¡¯s a no brainer. ?It¡¯s not. Depending on what your main material is , it might leave a worse finish.?
As fir quickness of setting / changing blades , a Tersa head or similar is 10 to 50 times faster for changeover and doesn¡¯t require a torque wrench.?
Dave
?
How serious of a hobbyist are you? Wanting to invest in a Hammer machine makes me think you are either a very serious hobbyist, small scale professional,? or someone with plenty
of money looking for something to spend it on.
If you are serious, yes definitely Hammer, great machine. I would also suggest?that you buy a model with a helical cutterhead. Less fiddly and less time consuming, changing blades
when compared with straight, one piece knives.? Longer blade life with solid carbide.
The newer cutterhead allows you to plane knotty, or seriously figured timber, or long boards that change grain direction several times, without any tear out. This means significantly
less time, effort needed for finishing. I mean light years difference. I cannot emphasise this enough.
If you have the funds I would invest in the 16" model. I have the 12" model. Yes it is rare that I need to plane or thickness a board wider than 12". I do sell my work occasionally,(not
enough to be a full time maker), and there are times when I really need that extra capacity. Having to do a work around, manually increases the labour time unnecessarily, and increases the cost of the job, cuts into your margins.
Hamish
|
Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Annu,
I am not a motor expert but for single phase you should have two hots (220 VAC) and the 3rd is most likely ground. Do you have an electrical schematic? Usually for felder there is a copy in the electrical area of the machine. I just checked K975 electrical drawing and it shows 3 phase contactor. So in this case, there should not be any voltage until the switch is turned on.
In your last post, if i understood correctly, you had humming when you applied power to the machine and you had not pressed the green button. You saw planer head rock back and forth slightly. If above is correct then ebrake board is very very likely the issue. In a particular Ebrake failure mode, the DC current injection continues until the motor experienced thermal shutdown.?
Since you have a spare ebrake board, I would try that.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 12, 2021, at 6:54 PM, annu.marwaha@... wrote: ?Hey Imran,
I¡¯m not sure how to bypass the ebrake board. ?I did do some poking around and found the following...
I disconnected the motor wires from the junction box to check if there was any voltage when plugged in the machine but did not hit start or anything else. ?On all three connections where the motors plugged in, there were two spots where I was getting around 85.5V AC. ?As I would move the position switch between the planer, table saw, spindle, I would get 121.8V AC from from a differ point on the motor connections. ?Shouldn¡¯t these both be around the same voltage? ?No idea If this means anything. ?Does anyone have a diagram of the switch wiring?
-Annu
|
Re: Hammer C-31 Planer Issue - Motor Triping
Hey Imran,
I¡¯m not sure how to bypass the ebrake board. ?I did do some poking around and found the following...
I disconnected the motor wires from the junction box to check if there was any voltage when plugged in the machine but did not hit start or anything else. ?On all three connections where the motors plugged in, there were two spots where I was getting around 85.5V AC. ?As I would move the position switch between the planer, table saw, spindle, I would get 121.8V AC from from a differ point on the motor connections. ?Shouldn¡¯t these both be around the same voltage? ?No idea If this means anything. ?Does anyone have a diagram of the switch wiring?
-Annu
|
Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Lucky, In the context of having to change or rotate every single individual blade on a helical cutterhead, I would agree with you.
In practical use, as a serious hobbyist, or small fine woodworking business, the solid carbide cutters stay sharp many times longer than the standard blades. This means you don't need to change anywhere near as often. If you're a small volume, high quality
worker, it could be many years before you need to.
?It also means if you get a nick in a helical carbide blade you can rotate the offending 1-2 blades. With regular knives if you get a nick, you have to change out the whole set.
I would also agree that straight grained purpleheart planes very well with regular knives. The fiddleback stuff gives me nightmares just thinking about it. Helical cutters no prob.
Where the helical cutterhead really shines is things like laminated cutting boards. I usually do several small batches a year. Sometimes, I make the mistake of orienting a laminate, the with the grain of one running in the opposite direction to all the
others. You get a nasty surprise when try to flatten it after glue up, with the tear out on that one area, using regular blades. With a helical cutterhead, there is no problem. Straight to finish sanding, no time consuming divetts to sand out.
The machine I have is about 11 years old. I believe Tersa blades might have been an option at the time(???). I had the regular reversible blades, until I changed out the cutterhead last year for a helical. The reversible blades would be slower than Tersa,
to change, but I didn't mind so much because I was used to the old style jointers, ancient method of using wrenches, where you tighten one bolt and the knives would move out of alignment somewhere else, and it takes hours to get a decent change.
I'm down here in Australia, where most of our hardwoods make working with oak feel like a softwood, and also have an abrasive high silica content to boot. I really notice the difference, when working with fine Northern hemisphere woods like walnut, cherry,?
maple, or oak. They feel like planing butter in comparison.?
Hamish.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] on behalf of David Luckensmeyer
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 10:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Very pertinent points Hamish.
But what about David¡¯s rejoinder about the speed issue of changing out blades? Your reference to ¡°a lot less time consuming¡± in change over is simply untrue. Maybe you¡¯re thinking about older machines which do not have indexed straight knives?
Even then, I¡¯m not sure you¡¯d be correct. Tell us more!
Many share your opinions, but this matter (straight versus helical) is absolutely not a ¡°no brainer¡±. I¡¯m a fine furniture maker, professional, and I use many exotic timbers, including Purple Heart (although not very often; you lucky bugger!!
:-). A new set of Tersa blades (which take two minutes to install) cuts Purple Heart very well indeed. You might agree, that the cutter head diameter (5¡± or larger; versus 4¡± or smaller) plays a very large part in whether there is tear-out. Thoughts?
So, to be clear, I¡¯m comparing your comments with my experience with half a dozen thicknessers, including my current machine which is a Dual 51, 5¡± cutter head with Tersa knife system. I love the Tersa system.
Lucky
Dave you are correct regarding the type of material you mainly use having an effect on finish quality. Say if you had exclusive access to clear, straight grained softwood, or mahogany,
you get a quality better finish from straight knives.
If you are a fine woodworker then even if you are using top quality softwood, you are still going to have to handplane or finish sand for the best surface.?
If you are doing entry level, high volume production work in softwood, and can get good quality wood, I'd go for conventional blades.
If you work with many different woods, hardwoods, highly figured woods, less than perfect grain or knots, regular blades can give you serious tear out. After planing some fiddleback
purple heart, for a small tabletop, with regular knives, I needed to spend the best part of a full week scraping, then sanding the top smooth enough to get a top quality finish.
Not something you want to do when time =money.
Horses for courses, when we're talking about specificity. For many and varied tasks I'd choose a helical cutterhead, for its versatility?
?Hamish.
Hamish - I agree will everything except helical head.?
Too many people say that like it¡¯s a no brainer. ?It¡¯s not. Depending on what your main material is , it might leave a worse finish.?
As fir quickness of setting / changing blades , a Tersa head or similar is 10 to 50 times faster for changeover and doesn¡¯t require a torque wrench.?
Dave
?
How serious of a hobbyist are you? Wanting to invest in a Hammer machine makes me think you are either a very serious hobbyist, small scale professional,? or someone with plenty
of money looking for something to spend it on.
If you are serious, yes definitely Hammer, great machine. I would also suggest?that you buy a model with a helical cutterhead. Less fiddly and less time consuming, changing blades
when compared with straight, one piece knives.? Longer blade life with solid carbide.
The newer cutterhead allows you to plane knotty, or seriously figured timber, or long boards that change grain direction several times, without any tear out. This means significantly
less time, effort needed for finishing. I mean light years difference. I cannot emphasise this enough.
If you have the funds I would invest in the 16" model. I have the 12" model. Yes it is rare that I need to plane or thickness a board wider than 12". I do sell my work occasionally,(not
enough to be a full time maker), and there are times when I really need that extra capacity. Having to do a work around, manually increases the labour time unnecessarily, and increases the cost of the job, cuts into your margins.
Hamish
|
Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Lucky, your analysis is fair.? As I've gained weight, I compensate with heavier equipment to keep the ratio correct.
I am a firm believer in the benefits of a heavy base for machinery though.? Stability starts at the bottom and translates to holding settings at the top.? As always, I run counter to the herd.? I might get trampled but I don't sniff much butt that way.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Dave, I chuckled when you said you don¡¯t follow the Hammer market. Said machines are a couple of tons too light for you!!?
On 13 Jan 2021, at 9:16 am, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
I don't believe Hammer offers Tersa but I don't follow the Hammer market.? I'd rather buy higher end used.? Dave
Dave:
Good points. Can the Hammer machines even be ordered with Tersa?
Lucky
On 13 Jan 2021, at 9:05 am, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
You also need to look at the design of the planer when judging what type of blades work best.? Machines that lack chipbreakers and a pressure bar, both near the knives, benefit more with helical heads.? Tersa and straight knives need those more than the shearing
cut of the helical or spiral do.? I'm not sure the Hammer planer has the same design as the 700 or better planers so a Tersa on a 900 or Format is a whole different animal than one on a Hammer.? Dave
Dave you are correct regarding the type of material you mainly use having an effect on finish quality. Say if you had exclusive access to clear, straight grained softwood, or mahogany,
you get a quality better finish from straight knives.
If you are a fine woodworker then even if you are using top quality softwood, you are still going to have to handplane or finish sand for the best surface.?
If you are doing entry level, high volume production work in softwood, and can get good quality wood, I'd go for conventional blades.
If you work with many different woods, hardwoods, highly figured woods, less than perfect grain or knots, regular blades can give you serious tear out. After planing some fiddleback
purple heart, for a small tabletop, with regular knives, I needed to spend the best part of a full week scraping, then sanding the top smooth enough to get a top quality finish.
Not something you want to do when time =money.
Horses for courses, when we're talking about specificity. For many and varied tasks I'd choose a helical cutterhead, for its versatility?
?Hamish.
Hamish - I agree will everything except helical head.?
Too many people say that like it¡¯s a no brainer. ?It¡¯s not. Depending on what your main material is , it might leave a worse finish.?
As fir quickness of setting / changing blades , a Tersa head or similar is 10 to 50 times faster for changeover and doesn¡¯t require a torque wrench.?
Dave
?
How serious of a hobbyist are you? Wanting to invest in a Hammer machine makes me think you are either a very serious hobbyist, small scale professional,? or someone with plenty
of money looking for something to spend it on.
If you are serious, yes definitely Hammer, great machine. I would also suggest?that you buy a model with a helical cutterhead. Less fiddly and less time consuming, changing blades
when compared with straight, one piece knives.? Longer blade life with solid carbide.
The newer cutterhead allows you to plane knotty, or seriously figured timber, or long boards that change grain direction several times, without any tear out. This means significantly
less time, effort needed for finishing. I mean light years difference. I cannot emphasise this enough.
If you have the funds I would invest in the 16" model. I have the 12" model. Yes it is rare that I need to plane or thickness a board wider than 12". I do sell my work occasionally,(not
enough to be a full time maker), and there are times when I really need that extra capacity. Having to do a work around, manually increases the labour time unnecessarily, and increases the cost of the job, cuts into your margins.
Hamish
|
Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Dave, I chuckled when you said you don¡¯t follow the Hammer market. Said machines are a couple of tons too light for you!!?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 13 Jan 2021, at 9:16 am, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
I don't believe Hammer offers Tersa but I don't follow the Hammer market.? I'd rather buy higher end used.? Dave
Dave:
Good points. Can the Hammer machines even be ordered with Tersa?
Lucky
On 13 Jan 2021, at 9:05 am, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
You also need to look at the design of the planer when judging what type of blades work best.? Machines that lack chipbreakers and a pressure bar, both near the knives, benefit more with helical heads.? Tersa and straight knives need those more than the shearing
cut of the helical or spiral do.? I'm not sure the Hammer planer has the same design as the 700 or better planers so a Tersa on a 900 or Format is a whole different animal than one on a Hammer.? Dave
Dave you are correct regarding the type of material you mainly use having an effect on finish quality. Say if you had exclusive access to clear, straight grained softwood, or mahogany,
you get a quality better finish from straight knives.
If you are a fine woodworker then even if you are using top quality softwood, you are still going to have to handplane or finish sand for the best surface.?
If you are doing entry level, high volume production work in softwood, and can get good quality wood, I'd go for conventional blades.
If you work with many different woods, hardwoods, highly figured woods, less than perfect grain or knots, regular blades can give you serious tear out. After planing some fiddleback
purple heart, for a small tabletop, with regular knives, I needed to spend the best part of a full week scraping, then sanding the top smooth enough to get a top quality finish.
Not something you want to do when time =money.
Horses for courses, when we're talking about specificity. For many and varied tasks I'd choose a helical cutterhead, for its versatility?
?Hamish.
Hamish - I agree will everything except helical head.?
Too many people say that like it¡¯s a no brainer. ?It¡¯s not. Depending on what your main material is , it might leave a worse finish.?
As fir quickness of setting / changing blades , a Tersa head or similar is 10 to 50 times faster for changeover and doesn¡¯t require a torque wrench.?
Dave
?
How serious of a hobbyist are you? Wanting to invest in a Hammer machine makes me think you are either a very serious hobbyist, small scale professional,? or someone with plenty
of money looking for something to spend it on.
If you are serious, yes definitely Hammer, great machine. I would also suggest?that you buy a model with a helical cutterhead. Less fiddly and less time consuming, changing blades
when compared with straight, one piece knives.? Longer blade life with solid carbide.
The newer cutterhead allows you to plane knotty, or seriously figured timber, or long boards that change grain direction several times, without any tear out. This means significantly
less time, effort needed for finishing. I mean light years difference. I cannot emphasise this enough.
If you have the funds I would invest in the 16" model. I have the 12" model. Yes it is rare that I need to plane or thickness a board wider than 12". I do sell my work occasionally,(not
enough to be a full time maker), and there are times when I really need that extra capacity. Having to do a work around, manually increases the labour time unnecessarily, and increases the cost of the job, cuts into your margins.
Hamish
|
Re: 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
I don't believe Hammer offers Tersa but I don't follow the Hammer market.? I'd rather buy higher end used.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] on behalf of David Luckensmeyer
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 6:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] 12" or 16" Jointer /Planer
Dave:
Good points. Can the Hammer machines even be ordered with Tersa?
Lucky
On 13 Jan 2021, at 9:05 am, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
You also need to look at the design of the planer when judging what type of blades work best.? Machines that lack chipbreakers and a pressure bar, both near the knives, benefit more with helical heads.? Tersa and straight knives need those more than the shearing
cut of the helical or spiral do.? I'm not sure the Hammer planer has the same design as the 700 or better planers so a Tersa on a 900 or Format is a whole different animal than one on a Hammer.? Dave
Dave you are correct regarding the type of material you mainly use having an effect on finish quality. Say if you had exclusive access to clear, straight grained softwood, or mahogany,
you get a quality better finish from straight knives.
If you are a fine woodworker then even if you are using top quality softwood, you are still going to have to handplane or finish sand for the best surface.?
If you are doing entry level, high volume production work in softwood, and can get good quality wood, I'd go for conventional blades.
If you work with many different woods, hardwoods, highly figured woods, less than perfect grain or knots, regular blades can give you serious tear out. After planing some fiddleback
purple heart, for a small tabletop, with regular knives, I needed to spend the best part of a full week scraping, then sanding the top smooth enough to get a top quality finish.
Not something you want to do when time =money.
Horses for courses, when we're talking about specificity. For many and varied tasks I'd choose a helical cutterhead, for its versatility?
?Hamish.
Hamish - I agree will everything except helical head.?
Too many people say that like it¡¯s a no brainer. ?It¡¯s not. Depending on what your main material is , it might leave a worse finish.?
As fir quickness of setting / changing blades , a Tersa head or similar is 10 to 50 times faster for changeover and doesn¡¯t require a torque wrench.?
Dave
?
How serious of a hobbyist are you? Wanting to invest in a Hammer machine makes me think you are either a very serious hobbyist, small scale professional,? or someone with plenty
of money looking for something to spend it on.
If you are serious, yes definitely Hammer, great machine. I would also suggest?that you buy a model with a helical cutterhead. Less fiddly and less time consuming, changing blades
when compared with straight, one piece knives.? Longer blade life with solid carbide.
The newer cutterhead allows you to plane knotty, or seriously figured timber, or long boards that change grain direction several times, without any tear out. This means significantly
less time, effort needed for finishing. I mean light years difference. I cannot emphasise this enough.
If you have the funds I would invest in the 16" model. I have the 12" model. Yes it is rare that I need to plane or thickness a board wider than 12". I do sell my work occasionally,(not
enough to be a full time maker), and there are times when I really need that extra capacity. Having to do a work around, manually increases the labour time unnecessarily, and increases the cost of the job, cuts into your margins.
Hamish
|
imran
David Luckensmeyer