I¡¯ll second Dave Kumm¡¯s comment that there isn¡¯t a single brand that is best-in-breed at everything. ? My shop is mostly Felder (Kappa 400 xMotion, Profil 45, Dual 51, RL160), and I have owned various Felder machines since I slipped into the deep end of the pool in 2001. ? Felder isn¡¯t perfect - no company is. ? I have also been a Martin dealer. ?While I respect Martin's in-house machines, they are not without their own quirks, and some of their machines are made by other companies. ? No company covers the equipment territory with all best-in-breed machines. ? Even Marin has disgruntled customers. ? ?
If you have NO BUDGET CONSTRAINTS, you can do better than Felder in almost every category, but not from a single supplier IMO. ? If, on the other hand, you¡¯re looking for exceptional value from a single source, Felder is a great choice for several categories of equipment. ? Felder is also a progressive growth company, comes up with terrific innovations from time to time (Silent Power cutterhead on their J/P¡¯s to name just one), and invests heavily in R&D and manufacturing. ? In contrast, the Martin factory looks like a re-tooled tank manufacturing facility from WWII, and they have had their share management turmoil the past 10 years. ? I don¡¯t want to dis Martin, they do make great machines, but they come at a price, and not everything in their line is on par.
Your Felder shopping list looks good. ? I would encourage you to consider an RL250 or the Al-Ko dust collector system instead of RL200. ? I¡¯d consider alternatives to the FW950 for all the reasons mentioned by Lucky. ? I don¡¯t know what an FB190 is, but if you¡¯re looking for a bandsaw, the newer 24¡± machines from a number of suppliers are all basically the same IMO - minor variations, everyone chasing maximum resaw capacity. ? Felder used to OEM ACM bandsaws, now they make their own. ? Edgebanding machines are temperamental beasts and if you¡¯re thinking of going into cabinet production full time, I¡¯d encourage you to buy from a vendor who provides local support with 24 hour on-call service (which Felder does not have). ? John Ferandin (here on FOG) has recent experience with the Forka and might comment - trust his comments, he¡¯s not easily bullshitted. ? Before you settle on the FAT300, have a good long look at Barth (available from Rangate or Martin). ? I have the Barth 500V and it¡¯s my constant companion in the shop, even though I choked hard on the price, it¡¯s worth it IMO.
Tooling your equipment is another deep subculture, and worthy of lots of thought and discussion before you buy. ? Mac¡¯s Airtight Clamps are a ¡°must have¡± IMO. ? There are better alternatives to the Felder parallel fence system from Brian and Mac (both here on FOG). ?Aigner¡¯s catalog will drain your bank account quickly unless you know more about how you¡¯re going to work, you¡¯ll be convinced you need everything they make. ? Rangate is a good source for shaper tooling and other goodies including Barth, Zuani, and they are very service oriented.
Harry at Felder is a terrific guy, and is one of a select few customer-facing people at Felder who actually knows woodworking and can convey the benefits of the equipment to an honest woodworker. ?He is one hell of a nice guy, but a sales person nonetheless. ? Do your homework.
If you have specific questions on equipment or options, sing out - there are plenty of great resources right here on FOG to help spend your money.
David Best
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Glen, I'd ask if there is a reason to buy all machines from one company.? As great as Felder is, I don't believe every machine in every line is the best choice.? I don't think any company can claim that.? I'd also ask why the jointer planer combo if you
have the room for separates.? Given your high end budget, spend some time looking at how each machine is built relative to the competition and then decide.? Felder makes some machines that when on sale are terrific values ( Kappa saw is one ) but others that
I don't feel lead the pack.? Same for SCM, Griggio, Casadei, even Martin.? Same for cars.? Dave
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Thank you David for welcoming me aboard,
I have looked at a lot of different companies over the last year, and i really like The Felder company. I have been to there offices in Sacramento, Ca? a few times, what really sold me was Harry? was out from Austria getting ready for a trade show in Florida
and I knew he was there for other things but , he spent the day with me and we took apart a 700SP and he gave me more knowledge in that six hours then I have had in my life time. with that I am sold.
So here I go:
Things have changed in woodworking in fifteen years, so I now have a learning curve.
My Purchase Order with Felder is (still working on options and tooling)?
Kappa 400 X Motion
AD 951 or 741
Profil 45 Z X motion
Forka 300 s Eco
FW 950 Classic ( not on my purchase order but maybe some day()
FB190
RL200
Fat300 for 2
The building has 3 phase 480.
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I will have about 2400 Sq Ft not including office space that I don't? need
As for what i am going to build, that is the big unknown, I have ideas and I will make it work
I can build one hell of a table beyond that the learning curve starts
Glen?
-----Original Message-----
From: David Luckensmeyer dhluckens@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...>
To: felder-woodworking < felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2016 5:00 pm
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Hello all,
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Hi Glen:
Welcome to the group! Looking forward to helping you.
Regarding your question about ¡°bad experiences¡±, I think perhaps that is not the right question. Most of us are long-term, repeat Felder customers who have invested a lot of time and money into Felder machines, along with many other brands. We
can probably all tell stories about ¡°bad experiences¡±, whether about a particular machine, or a particular service representative. Here the context would be most important. Was the ¡°bad experience¡± last year or fifteen years ago? Was it West coast or East
coast, or somewhere like Australia (where I am)? And so forth. Make sense?
Perhaps a more useful question would be: ¡°Would you buy Felder again?¡±
My answer is absolutely. This company is not perfect. The service is not perfect. The machines are not perfect. But they are very well designed (in the main), very well built (in the main), and the service is much better than average (again, in
the main). I have quite a few of their machines and have spent a lot of money with Felder. I, for one, will continue to buy Felder.
There are many here who can help you with the machines you¡¯re considering, and what options to buy. But we need more information, like:
How much do you want to spend? $10k, $20k, $100k?
What power do you have, or are you willing to put in?
What size space do you have? (This is important for sliding table lengths.)
And what kind of ¡°woodwork¡± do you like to do? Small, detailed items; big interior design work; veneer or solid? Etc.
These are exciting times for you!
Warm regards,
David
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Practice Manager
Luckensmeyer Medical Pty Ltd
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and
Designer and Woodworker
Original Designs in Wood
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I am a new joiner to the group and would like to introduce myself.
My name is Glen and I am purchasing some Felder tools. I am Glad to find this group to get in touch and learn more.
I grew up in wood, my dad was a cabinet builder , boat builder or just anything anyone would bring him he could build
Ten years ago I got out of wood and got in the grocery business. It was the best and worse thing I ever did. The best thing was i made money , the bad was 100 hour work weeks and missing sawdust. In those ten years i put some money away every month so i could
get my workshop back when i retired. I am retiring in 32 days and about 10 hours. Ha. So as i try and figure out what I am buying,how to plan shop layout, dust collection, what im going to make to sell if anything and why im even really doing this, I am looking
for knowledge from other people. I have nothing but questions and this is a one time thing for me that I have to get right. My girl friend was ok with it ( "It will give you something to do and keep you busy") until I told her how much i was going to spend.?
Sorry to drag on but i am excited to join this group and other related groups to learn how you all do. it.
Thanks Glen
Question one, who has had any bad experiences with Felder?
-----Original Message-----
From: James Zhu ?james.zhu2@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...>
To: ?phil_moger@...?[felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2016 10:16 am
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: See the new dust collector?
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I read another post?.
The machine sold in states comes with 5 micron filter, 1 micron is an option you can upgrade. I believe the machine sold in Europe will have 1 micron filter.
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David P. Best