Ta Brian, I didn't know for sure. What I guess I was getting at though is that provided it's not a case of very precisely locating the hinge line as you describe that unless I'm missing something it takes a bit of work and some trial and error - but it's not all that hard to get the likes of the K3 tilt geometry set up.
On its being tough to precisely locate a hinge line. Toe out settings may still be a matter of mechanical adjustments, but the chances are that the fancy new saws with electronic readouts nowadays could well side step the need for some of the mechanical finesse and deal with the effects of blade tilt by allowing the zero offset to happen, but then factoring an adjustment back into the scale reading to cancel it.
ian
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--- In felder-woodworking@..., Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
The Hammer, Felder 500 series (until they put the 700 series guts in the S chassis) and 900 series (at least the older ones) are hinged on pins hanging off the bottom of the table, so it's not exclusive to the cheaper saws.
The newer double trunnion 700 series have a semi-circular trunnion that does project the tilting axis to be exactly at table and side of the blade intersection. The older single trunnion 700 series and before, were adjustable to be set this way too, although pretty hard to do and actually keep it perfect.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
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On May 5, 2012, at 10:17 AM, ondablade wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me David if it's the case that Felder would prefer that the blade tilt hinge mounting on the K3 is not disturbed by owners.
That said my saw was showing about a .010in difference in toe out when the blade was tilted from 90 deg to 45 deg as received. It really wasn't an option to leave it that way, and the only obviously available adjustment seemed to be to shim the in feed end trunnion down a hair. (the presence of what looks like a shim in this location in the parts manual suggests that this is how Felder do it)
The saw spindle assembly is hinged from the table, so it presumably was that way from the factory. The table and the slider were significantly misaligned too, but not in ways that would have disturbed the above. i.e. toe out measured with a dial gauge off the slider was within the spec quoted in the set up guide when the blade was at 90 deg, but as above well off at 45 deg.
One factor on the K3 (being a more budget model than some) is that the blade tilt uses a fairly basic hinge mechanism rather than a trunnion set per se. This places the blade tilting axis some small distance (maybe 6mm?) below the surface of the table.
I'm no expert, but a little thought suggests that a full trunnion set up would make it possible that the tilt axis could run precisely on the line where the plane of the table surface, and the 'non-offcut' face of the saw blade intersect.
Which if accurately enough placed would open the way to the possibility that the 'zero' of the cross cut scale would not be disturbed, and the toe out would remain more or less at the vertical setting as the blade tilted.
Given such a set up it'd make a lot of sense to avoid disturbing these alignments, and to stay with the slider to set toe out. More upmarket saws of course have a jacking screw that make this alignment easier too.
That's not the situation on the K3 though, and i'm not sure that it's such a big deal on it...
ian
--- In felder-woodworking@..., "David P. Best" <dbest@> wrote:
For slider toe-out, I'd like to discourage you from moving the pivot blocks for the saw trunion, and encourage you to adjust the lower rail of the sliding table instead. If you mess with with the trunion, you're likely to have misalignment issues when you tilt the saw blade.
David Best
On May 4, 2012, at 5:55 AM, Jerry wrote:
I removed the slider table from the bottom mount. I wanted to check out everything and no problems were found. The rails and bearing were very clean. The bearing carriage was not centered. It is now centered and comes about 1" from the each end durring a full stroke. I was adjusting the bearing rails at the front where the lateral play was high. Now that the bearing are correctly positioned I thighten up the rails where the bearing carriage is when getting the large movement. That took care of the lateral play problem. It is had to believe that a 230mm long bearing carriage will handle a 1250mm slider but it does.
I now will move on to the slider toe out after I do all the checks you suggested. I think I will try Ian's method and adjust the front saw mounting bracket.
Thanks for getting me on the right track. I will wait for your next batch of BBAS-2416-RED squares to fine tune my crosscut fence...
Jerry P
