Ideally yes I would like to see both in person but I will have to make my decision based on online and other user info since I¡¯m far from my closest felder showroom and Rangate headquarters.? I did speak on the phone with Gary at Rangate today and he mentioned that a heavier duty large cart is available to order.? Here is a screenshot of pricing from his email. Does anyone have any info on the heavier duty carts??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 25, 2023, at 1:59 PM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? Dan, I think you misread my recommendation. ?What I said was "But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn¡¯t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 ¡°large¡± does."
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 25, 2023, at 5:17 AM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
Appreciate the write up David. Yes I too would be in line if you built the ultimate lift bench! I¡¯m not looking for a very traditional bench but something that has a high-low lift range so a scissor lift design is best suited for the application. It will mainly be used as a sanding and cabinet assembly workbench. Assembling large cabinets can be a pain at standard heights off the ground and I prefer not crawling around.? You mentioned I may be happier with the Barth xl vs fat 500s bench. What is the reasoning for that??
And Lucky my shop floor is anything but perfect! I have 2¡± variation in some areas but strategically chose the flattest spot for my workbench area.? On Jul 22, 2023, at 1:58 AM, David P. Best <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? As usual, I feel compelled to comment, largely from the perspective of ¡°let¡¯s cut through the gloss and get to the heartwood of the matter.¡± ?So here goes.
Dan appears to me to be on the right focus if this cart is to be used as a ¡°bench¡± in the woodworking environment. ?I have a couple of different scissors-lift carts in my shop, but the only one I consider stout enough to suffer the rigors of adapting wood into specific structures (hand planing, cutting dovetail joints, etc.) or to act as a reference surface for joining elements at right angles is my Barth 500V. ?The other scissor-lift carts I have would fail miserably at that, but as something that¡¯s ¡°affordable¡± to elevate material or heavy tooling (metal working vise, rotary table) they do just fine, and as something with wheels to stack dimensioned lumber on, they do pretty well at that also. ?So they have a place in my shop, but not as a replacement for something like shown below:
I¡¯ve looked closely at the Felder FAT series with a skeptical eye, and while they are decidedly NOT as robust as a bench than my Barth 500, they are clearly built to a higher level of rigidity and flatness than the Jet cart Dan bought from HD. ?But again, as a true substitute for a ¡°woodworkers bench¡± I wouldn¡¯t want the Felder FAT carts either. ?My Barth 500 just meets, but does not exceed my own expectations of a mobile bench. ?Now, is the Barth worth 5X the Jet? ?Depends on what you¡¯re trying to use it for. ?
The question then becomes ¡°does the Felder FAT or Rangate alternative¡± fill the gap in between? ?I have my doubts and would suggest Dan actually look over the FAT alternative with first hand experience before plunging in on the basis of ¡°it¡¯s Felder, it has to be good - right?¡±.
I still view all of the European-type variants (Barth, Rangate, Felder FAT, etc.) as vastly over priced relative to what they should cost. ?And I still wish there were a suitable USA manufacturer who would enter this field (liker ShopCarts perhaps, or Lista/Vidmar come to mind) who would build a mobile scissors-lift cart that is of sufficient build quality to serve as a woodworker bench. ?After several discussions with Greg at Rangate, I had hopes that they would come up with something to ¡°fill the gap¡±. ?And while the Rangate 300 ¡°Large¡± cart is clearly more robust and rigid than the Felder equivalent, and potentially suitable as a ¡°woodworker bench¡±, it¡¯s been priced relative to the competitive offering from Barth rather than from the perspective of ¡°cost plus x-percent margin¡± which I had hoped for.?
So, Dan, my recommendation that if you¡¯re looking for a bench substitute in combination with lift-and-slide features, you return that Jet. ? But I also recommend you take the time to actually look over your next choice in person rather than rely on brand name or even user recommendations that are alway fraught with confirmation bias. ?You might find that the Felder FAT 500 doesn¡¯t fit your needs, while the Rangate 300 ¡°large¡± does.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:13 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Dan:
Oh, that does not sound good at all. That¡¯s unfortunate as the cart looks pretty solid from the photos. Like you I¡¯d probably put up with a fair bit of ¡°trouble¡± for the cost savings, but if it¡¯s not rigid, then it¡¯s hard to see it working well
when rolled from place to place. Unless your shop floor is perfect! Mine is definitely considerably less than!?
Let us know how you go as we are all looking for good adjustable carts at reasonable prices.?
Warm regards,
Lucky?
Dr David Luckensmeyer
Thanks for your input Lucky. Yes if I were to keep the cart or any of this style I would ditch the handle and mount the trigger release to the underside of my top. This cart is about 1/4 of the price of the 500s or $1100 retail vs $4k plus in
USD.?
My problem with this cart is it seems to be too flexible and will not be a stable enough platform for the type of torsion box top I want. It flexes relatively easily to lateral forces and the upper rollers are mounted loosely where you can twist
the top with ease. ?My suspicion that even a fabricated wood or torsion top will not do much to help in this area. I suppose I can throw my existing torsion top on this and see how it performs.?
On Jul 21, 2023, at 9:18 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Hi Dan:
I think that¡¯s a good looking purchase. I¡¯m assuming it is significantly less expensive than the FAT alternative? I don¡¯t know why the FATs (and similar) are so expensive. They are not particularly heavily built and the hydraulics are commonly
available.?
I have two FAT 300s. I¡¯m happy with them. But neither were good enough to yield a flat working surface. I made a 30mm timber top for one (shimmed for flat) and a full torsion box style top for the other. As Brian said, make a top and shim it
for full, flat support.?
I assume you¡¯ll ditch the handle? If the hand grip is used to lower the cart, I¡¯d just mount it under the new top so it is out of the way. I do like having braking on all four corners. But casters are cheap so you can replace them if need be.?
Unless there¡¯s something seriously wrong with the cart mechanism, or size, or something that cannot be changed, I¡¯d advocate for keeping it, making a flat top for it, and getting it into use!
Warm regards,
Lucky
Dr David Luckensmeyer
I¡¯m not sure any welded up steel top cart like that is ever going to be ¡°flat¡± enough for what you are wanting. You can mount a another top on it and shim it at the mounting points to get it as flat as you want.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:01 PM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote:
Recent discussions prompted me to seriously consider upgrading my current fixed height workbench with a lift table. I ordered a Jet SLT-1100 lift table from Home Depot, this one comes with a 31.5x63 surface. This size and weight is roughly equivalent
to the fat 500s table. I had high hopes but those turned out to be a disappointment, the cart is not a viable option for any accurate (flat, no twist) workbench use. ?Attached are pics showing a severe twist in the top and about a 3/16 cup in the middle. The
bow was likely formed from warping at the welding stage and overall insufficient support. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this to create a flat and cools at work surface for a torsion box style top? I think it may not be worth the effort and just send
it back and cough up the money for a 500s.?
I will say the packaging was pretty secure, it came in a fully boxes plywood crate. That¡¯s more than a 20k felder saw with 2x4s and plastic wrap.?
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg><image2.jpeg><image3.jpeg><image4.jpeg>
On Jul 14, 2023, at 5:36 PM, Larry Long Neck <longneckwood@...> wrote:
?I noticed at the bottom of Felder's promo email for AWFS that they have a raffle for a "lift table" at the end of the month if you visit their booth. I assume this means a FAT 300, if anyone is going and wants one :)
--
Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
|
Dan Gavrilyuk