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Re: Clamp-Together pipe for dust collection
#dustcollection
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Joe, sorry to remember wrong as you, not John has the Smart.? I would add that when calculating pressure of various size ducts and fittings, you must factor in the additional friction created by the increase in velocity created by the smaller duct.? I still
feel it is better to increase the flow by opening a second gate than reducing the diameter of the main.? While a 6" main will handle most machines, a larger jointer or planer may may need 800-1000 cfm and a shaper with two 5" ports can be over 1200.? Your
smart can probably pull that through a 6" pipe but a CV 1800 won't.? 7" is a pretty good main for a typical 5 hp 15" impeller system, 8" to the shaper or 24" planer and then reducing down might mean you leave the gate at the first machine a little open although
gates leak a fair amount anyway.? That is the call of the experts.?
Bill Pentz did some great work, particularly his cyclone and duct design.? In my talks with him a number of years ago, he wasn't designing for large 20+" machines, shapers or Wide belts.? I was hoping the new cyclone would be a little larger to handle the 8"
port.? Almost all commercial 5 hp systems run a 20" diameter.? The original CV was designed for the 6" main and modified for the 16" impeller.? I think a second size cyclone would be a benefit in the steel but know the cost is higher than the market CV sees
itself in.
I totally agree that someone who designs systems is worth the expense.? A person needs to make sure the machinery used now and what is expected in the future is accounted for.? Adding a great machine and having to redo the entire system is no fun.? Don't ask
how I know that.? Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 11:25 AM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FOG] Clamp-Together pipe for dust collection #dustcollection ?
Please either have your duct supplier design the duct sizing or get familiar with the Bill Pentz spreadsheet and design yourself.? Big mains will enable higher CFM only if the port at the machine (the smallest opening the air flows through) is about the same cross sectional area. ? Simple mental experiment.? You have a garden hose bib with say 60 psi of city water pressure.? The 60 psi is like the pressure measurement of a dust collector stated in inches water gauge.? There is also a metric equivalent.? You open the hose bib a little (like a small port) and you get water flowing at some gallon per minute rate. This would be like CFM in dust collection.? Now if you put a bigger water pipe behind the hose bib but you didn¡¯t open the bib any further you would get exactly the same gallons per minute.? You could put a 12¡± water line behind the hose bib and not get any more water at that setting.? If you want more gallons per minute you have to open the hose bib up.? Or you could increase the pressure in the water line.? The engineering field is called fluid dynamics and that science tells you that to double the gallons per minute you need to increase the pressure by 4X.? So to double the gallons per minute you would need 240 psi of water pressure, or you could open the hose bib a little further. ? My Felder KF700SP has about a 5¡± port on the side of the machine but inside it¡¯s connected to a 4¡± flex hose and they connects to a port under the blade that¡¯s equivalent to about a 3¡± diameter duct.? That 3¡± diameter is like the hose bib.? When does a large main help, it¡¯s necessary when you are using multiple machines at one time or when you have a machine that has really big ports.? On your table saw with a typical collector you will be lucky to pull 400 cfm.? Doesn¡¯t matter if you have a 5¡± duct, 6¡± duct, 8¡± duct or 20¡± duct.? The suction pressure will determine how much air moves through that port.? But if the main is really big and you have small effective ports, the velocity of the air in the main will be low and if too low, dust will settle in the main. ? Big mains for a one person shop are usually a mistake. ? I use an Oneida Smart collector that varies the pressure to maximize CFM.? More pressure is the only way to get more cfm through a small port.? My collector has a 7¡± inlet and I ram 7¡± main to the planer and drum sander and then 6¡± everywhere else.? If you have a professional design the layout (free from must duct sellers) or like $100 from Oneida if you don¡¯t buy duct from them, they will use software tools to optimize all the parameters. ? The think for people on maximizing duct diameter is to minimize friction from the air flowing. Friction is real but because the smallest passage for air is the main factor in overall resistance, the big duct doesn¡¯t help much. ? With Bill Pentz¡¯s spreadsheet you can model sample duct runs and play with changing duct sizes to see the impact.? It also flags when velocity is too low. ?
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
Acharya Kumarnathaswami ?
So, run 8" main line with 6" drops... . Then four or five inch flex hose to the machines (depending on machine ports I suppose). If I go with? automated gates, since don't have to be within reach (as they do if they are manually operated--which) the automated
gates could be on the 6 inch. Sound right??
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