On 24 Sep 2020, at 9:40 am, david@... via <david@...> wrote:

As an architect once said to me “To be successful in this trade, you not only need good taste, but you need good pre-understanding.”

David Best

On Sep 23, 2020, at 4:18 PM, habacomike via <habacomike@...> wrote:

Lucky, ?no doubt “preunderstanding” has something to do with it. ?But so does taste. ?There’s all sorts of ways to “judge” design — efficient use of materials, in accord with some elements of a design “standard,” pleasing according to some sort of aesthetic guide, and/or efficient in the use of space, etc. ?But inherently, judging design will be a matter of individual preference. ?So, don’t take anyone’s judgment of your design — it’s their opinion and background, and who knows what specifically they are using to arise at a judgment. ?Rather I think you are noting the important aspect of design discussions — learning. ?That is learning why someone values a particular design or how they think it might be improved. ?All design, like all art, is derivative; so exploring other’s opinions can broaden horizons.

I think that’s what you are more or less saying, but the important aspect here is that taste is an important aspect of judging design, and there’s no accounting for that.

Mike

On Sep 23, 2020, at 3:53 PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:

Hi Mark:

I used preunderstanding because I hoped it was sufficiently banal to be understood in context. In truth, it is a rather loaded concept and you are right to question what it means (to me). Thank you.

Your online search was sufficiently vague to be unhelpful, although it redeems in one respect — the term is often used in relation to biblical research. However, despite its links to theology, there is an atavism to the concept which is more philosophical than theological, and derives notions of meaning, existence, and even existentialism. In my previous emails, I referred to “ideology” as a way of summarising and condensing the issues of pre-understanding in a contemporary way. I use the word ideology in a broader sense — not just to refer to economics or politics — but sociology, history, and culture.

When I approach a situation like a kitchen design, my "ideological kitchen" is informed by previous experiences, previous discussions (like this one), previous prejudices and ignorances, previous education in all spheres. I might prefer timber finishes because I am a woodworker. I might prefer stainless steel kicks because of the influence of my architect uncle. I might prefer a spartan/clean look because it reminds me of a poorer upbringing when I had less. I might be more testy with you than with the next guy because you happened to use a combination of terms or phrases that was reminiscent of persons who bullied me in my youth. Each of these examples are illustrative of, or formative to, my view of a “good kitchen”; my ideological kitchen. These precursors have nothing to do with whether my kitchen has good design or not, and yet they have everything to do with whether my kitchen has good design “for me”.

When I use the term pre-understanding, I’m invoking all that goes before me, my American heritage, my white skin, my relentlessly religious upbringing, my experiences in outback Australian schools, my exposures to woodworkers and woodworking techniques, trade magazines on kitchen design, my extensive tertiary education, social influences, political influences, familial influences, etc. ad?nauseam. I make so many assumptions and decisions on the basis of previously lived experiences.

When people come together with relatively parallel pre-understandings, they often find comfort in a shared and reinforced ideology. I know I do. Groups like the FOG are powerful and important because of a shared ideology. (As an aside, I find the sociology of online communities amazingly complex and interesting.) Lots of members here piled in on my kitchen design and we reinforced common ground on what we think is good design. If I’m honest, the positive comments made me feel good. Likewise, when John K. calls me on my bandsaw judgements, I don’t feel so good. But then when I allow myself permission to get behind the emails, behind the texts, and into the realms of understanding and assumptions, I am able to give myself permission to learn, and to feel OK about it. So I reach out to John K. with a conciliatory email and it lets him know that our relatively parallel pre-understandings are strong enough that we can disagree from time to time (even quite strongly) and still enjoy each other’s repartee. Right John? :-)

What is more important to me, indeed what is of existential importance, is not so much the social acceptance or rejection of the FOG member’s views on my kitchen (the desire to feel “good”), but the getting behind photos and videos and words, the getting behind my intentional (whether conscious or unconscious) framing of the subject matter, and understanding (pre-understanding) reality itself. I believe we can only understand reality through case-studies like my kitchen design. There is far too much here to unpack, and much of the philosophical roots of the discussion goes beyond my expertise, but I find meaning in understanding myself, and understanding those around me. Meaning is self-chosen, and depending on what is chosen leads to the proverbial experiences of “heaven” or “hell”. I’ve made hellish choices on many occasions in my life and I’m seeking, more and more, to understand what goes into those choices so I may make different ones.

I wrote the above with the best of intentions and hope I have not offended anyone. As I age (I’m in my mid-forties), I’m realising that I want to be less offended and offensive, less fundamental, more open, more giving and more understanding of others and myself. Obviously, I have a long way to go! :-)

Take care.

Warm regards,
Lucky

On 23 Sep 2020, at 10:35 am, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:

Lucky, what does "pre-understanding" mean to you?? It's not in the dictionary and the only thing I found in a quick online search is:

"preunderstanding?includes anything and everything we understand, believe, or assume before we study the Bible"

? ?