Having just mounted the long arm and a f38 power feeder back onto the saw... if they make a magnetic base... wow, it¡¯s gotta be special, because this thing is heavy.
Heavy heavy like moving it on and off of anything seems like a quick trip to tossing your back out.
Did I mention it¡¯s heavy? ?If the DC40 (which I¡¯m looking at upgrading to) is heavier... yeah.. you prolly need to bolt it to something and maybe get a friend to help install it.
My $.02
Brian Sent from a device with less than stellar autocorrect
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 26, 2020, at 11:02 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Thanks for that perspective ¨C I really appreciate it.
?
My current situation is I have a 52¡± SawStop table saw A3/31, and a Bridgeport in my 22 x 32 shop, not counting work benches and other smaller tools. I also have ¡°the corner of junk¡± where my kids have their workbenches and bits of things
they take apart. Last summer I added a 4 x 8 CNC router which has drastically changed how I work with sheet goods and has made my giant SawStop an albatross, not to mention taking up a lot of floor space.? Right now I have no band saw of any consequence (will
be a Felder FB510 someday) and would really like to have a drum sander, both which will help facilitate the kind of work I want to do on the CNC router. In order to make space for those, something has to go, which for me is separates for the table saw and
jointer/planer.
?
I hope to make furniture occasionally, but I¡¯m not really a cabinet shop. One thing I do is antique clock restorations, and that¡¯s all one-off stuff where almost everything is a changeover all the time anyway even on separate tools, so
I¡¯m hoping occasional changeover time isn¡¯t a huge deal. Since I¡¯m working with relatively small pieces (breaking down sheet goods on the CNC router) I¡¯m hoping I can use the jointer/planer side pretty independently of the saw side of the CF531. The shaper
is less familiar to me.
?
As another cf owner- keep as many separates as you can. If I had my way, I¡¯d have separates versus the combo. Moving stuff around to reconfigure, even as great as the engineering is, it¡¯s still not as easy as turning off the power, walking
a few feet and resuming on a different operation by turning on a switch. A nightmare to me is blowing up a board and not having a spare when doing shaper milling. Means I have to tear down shaper, set up jointer, then tear that down, set up planer, tear that
down and then set up saw, then reset shaper. It can take an hour with all the setup and about 7 min of processing time for that one board. I have a separate router table I keep around and a miter saw but have to navigate the rest on the cf. I don¡¯t often use
the router table but when I do it can be very handy. It is not a substitute for a shaper. I happen to use it most for quick one offs and have the cnc fence and lift that allows quick setup without a lot of jigs.?
Get ready to reassess your workflow :) When you have it setup well you can do pretty well and get increased speed and quality in your processing with powerfeeds etc that would otherwise require a large workspace.?
I had the high speed router spindle and used it for bits - mostly edging and did not have any problem with it.? I may be mistaken but I think it was 15000 RPM
?
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 11:29 AM TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
Waste of money because it won¡¯t work or is just sub-optimal?
?
I¡¯m aware of the challenge of the relatively slow RPM of the shaper compared to a router table. I don¡¯t have the shop space luxury of being able to have 25 dedicated stations nor the finances (particularly after ordering the CF531), which
is where compromises come in. Is there something else I¡¯m missing?
?
¡°I have ordered the ¡°high speed spindle¡± for my CF531 which will let me use my existing 1/2¡± router bits as a backup. I was originally thinking that might be money poorly spent considering the slow speed of the shaper compared to a router,
but maybe with the cost of shaper tooling I will use it more than I originally thought.
Thanks for all of the advice. I welcome any corrections/chastisement/reproof, etc.¡°
Common poor conclusion it¡¯s a shaper not a router table! Waste of good money ,,rebate block , groover to start
?
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell
Designing and building for 47 years
?
On May 26, 2020, at 9:44 AM, TJ Cornish <tj@...> wrote:
?
Thank you for the book recommendation ¨C I ordered it.
?
I¡¯m told I need a power feeder if I want to keep all my fingers. The Comatic DC40 seems to be the right place to start ¨C the older geared systems seem like they are significantly more limited compared to the modern variable speed ones.
I¡¯m thinking of instead of mounting the power feeder on the side of the machine, getting one of these magnetic bases:
?
?
?
That way I can use the feeder on the saw as well. Otherwise I would have to get the extra long arm for the power feeder.
?
Any thoughts on that? They claim 2000lbs of holding force from the base. I¡¯m familiar with Magswitches in other industries and they are the real deal.
?
If you are new to shaping in general, I¡¯d suggest a book read. It goes through all the background info I am sure you would find interesting including knife materials and differences, safety, and how to do cuts. I wish I had this book when
I got my shaper. Spindle moulder handbook. Also, Rangate made quite a few videos with Joe Calhoun on their tooling which might give you some ideas, and Greg Godbout is a great resource. The tooling is top notch in cost and quality but some of the more basic
things like insert hss are available affordably. But as you need is a great way to go. Most cutters are available pretty quickly when the demand manifests. If you think you will need a lot of custom profiles, on doors for instance, you definitely should consider
insert knives for that like what Rangate has. ?
Thanks for all of the thoughts.? We¡¯ve covered a lot of ground so I¡¯ll summarize what I think you¡¯ve all said:
For whatever reason, it¡¯s not a normal thing to have a 40mm interchangeable block that covers all of the meat and potatoes like standard 1/4¡± 3/8¡± and 1/2¡± roundover, cove, and ogees in a pre-packaged set.
Felder sells a roundover kit separate from the interchangeable block, but it costs 8 billion dollars (my editorial - I¡¯m still falling over a bit on the cost of all of this compared to a $19 Freud roundover bit)
Interchangeable heads are good and if possible get the chip limiter version, though in looking around, that seems to limit choices, too. Most interchangeable heads use HSS knives?
There are tools like this:??that may be a better bet for the basic stuff and are carbide instead of the HSS knives that interchangeable
blocks come with.? They don¡¯t have chip limiters though. Is that a big concern?
Custom grinding is interesting to me, but not something I¡¯ll be doing anytime soon; I¡¯m just looking to move away from my cruddy router table to the spindle in my forthcoming CF531. For my very short projects where I may need something
custom I can make it on my CNC router. As a hobbyist I have more time than money and can wait 1/2 hour for the router to cut the 4¡¯ of trim I need rather than spending time and money on custom knives.
I still think it¡¯s strange in the era of cheap CNC grinding that there isn¡¯t an obvious insert tooling option that gives the advantages of carbide and cost savings with the use of the interchangeable head for basic things. I know I could
get custom-ground CNC profiles in HSS or carbide, but I¡¯ve spent a couple hours on Amana, CMT, Freud, and other suppliers and there doesn¡¯t seem to be easy to find normal stuff. Maybe it¡¯s there; ALL of the websites I¡¯ve tried are terrible - Amana, Tools Today,
CMT, etc. Freud¡¯s was passable in that there were at least a few graphics showing multiple bit drawings and corresponding part numbers. The rest are a mishmash of poorly sorted drawings, many with no measurements given. Amana¡¯s site is truly awful for the
insert knives - you almost have to just start clicking on random numbers.
I have ordered the ¡°high speed spindle¡± for my CF531 which will let me use my existing 1/2¡± router bits as a backup. I was originally thinking that might be money poorly spent considering the slow speed of the shaper compared to a router,
but maybe with the cost of shaper tooling I will use it more than I originally thought.
Thanks for all of the advice. I welcome any corrections/chastisement/reproof, etc.
?I agree. ? Prospectively buying shaper tooling before you have need for the specific cutter is a quick way to the poor house.? Wait till you know what you need.
?
?
?
?
?I honestly would wait to buy until there is a need.
The multi profile kits are fine I suppose, but for a simple round over, ogee, or anything you just want to mount for a quick cut is no longer a quick cut if you have to set knives. You'll probably just use your router, that's fine, but a shaper will make a
much better cut requiring much less if any secondary processing,i.e. sanding.
?I like disposable carbide insert tooling most always, because they don't need to get sent out to sharpen and they put out about 3000 linear feet before dulling in medium hardwoods.
That said, these cutter heads a a bit pricey and are usually single or similar in profile.
I like a brazed cutter(round over, ogee, and such) for the profiles that are used often. Easy to swap out and you will forget you own a router. You can buy brazed tooling on ebay for? cheap and just get them sharpened. And can buy bushings to use heads that
do not match your spindle. I have a 50mm vari-angle? I picked up for $150 and use with bushings on a 1.25" spindle.
if I ever have the need and the $ at the same time I would buy a multi use cutter from Rangate about $1400 .
You should get a corrugated head or three. again you can usually find these on ebay, but since this will be an old friend eventually I spent the $ an bought a nice 3" from Shmidt to start.
It was worth it . I do have a 4" and 6" as well but bought as needed. Titan from Global Tooling in WA is fine to use and cheap when you need to make a quick 6" face cut.
With "slugs"? and "blanks"you can use a 1" knives in a 4"x4" head. Stay with larger diameters as they produce better finishes. Dual angle heads are a plus too, soft and hardwoods.
Daily use cheads for me are usually groovers and rebate heads,or discs sometimes called. It's nice to have these in the same diameter because you can stack two 12mm to make a 24mm or a 12mm with an adjustable groover for a wider range of cuts, two groovers
with spacer in between become a tenon cutting set-up, or three groovers makes double tenons that I use often.
I buy cheap Toolstoday heads for cuts that are not dependant on profile accuracy. Like a rebate for a back panel on a cabinet.
They are quite fine most any day and very affordable. BUT I find that the outer cut diamter between two 180mm groovers may vary .002" That may be well within spec for better companies, I dont know. Also in the Amana rebate head the kknive may not be exactly
parralel to one another so in theory you are producing a crowned face. Again this is extremely small and unoticable except if maybe you widthed two edges for glue up you might see a? larger glue line. I am anal about fitting and dont get much humbug from the
amana most days.
I get my custom profiles from Weinig , I was using a couple other places but had some folks burn the edges and it ruins the temper so..... Weinig is high quality and usually ships out in 48 hours or less. But probably plenty of good places to order knives.
?
?
--
|
