|
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a needle in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
Ian,
The kits are pretty easy, and having just replaced my compressor, I would try the easy route first. Put a can or 2 in and call it a day.
A shop should charge you about $100 to track down the leak. They put a fluorescing dye in the freon and use a black light to find the leak.
--Stephen
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
At 09:17 PM 6/24/2008, you wrote: Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a needle in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
Ian,
We don't need no stinkin' air conditioning here in the Pacific Northwest!
We have natural air conditioning provided by the frigid Pacific Ocean!
Your system has a leak, and it needs to be repaired by a pro. It sounds
like you have lost most of the refrigerant.
Was your '93 upgraded to R134 when you replaced the compressor? If not, now
would be the time to either do that or switch to one of the new products
that is compatible with R12 systems, but environmentally friendly. Anytime
you open the system it has to be evacuated of all the air before new
refrigerant can be introduced. That takes special tools that the pros have.
I hope we do have a warm summer, it's been way too cold this spring.
Stuart
_____
From: ev_update@... [mailto:ev_update@...] On Behalf
Of Ian Mothersill
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:17 PM
To: ev_update@...
Subject: [ev_update] How often do you service your A/C ? (93 EV) - anbody do
their own?
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a needle in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
If you don't use the system regularly, it can leak through the seals- -so it may be worth trying a charge. The self help kits are getting pretty good these days, I recommend you get one with a pressure gauge and make sure it is low before you recharge. Jim Black --- In ev_update@..., "Ian Mothersill" <imothers_2000@...> wrote:
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k
miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the
van 2 summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all for most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have not had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide
the temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a needle in a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
Jim, I understand having the proper amount of refrigerant in the system is more of an issue with R134 than was the case with the old R12 stuff, at any rate you would want to be close. With the old school systems, you could tell at a glance whether you had the right amount, just watch for bubbles in the sight glass. However, these are a thing of the past, as they to have gone away with the R12 refrigerant. The Bentley service manual would have you use a very expensive recycling machine to remove the refrigerant from your vehicle, then put back a specific weight to get the charge to spec. Lacking the proper tool, how do you get the proper amount of refrigerant? Ken in AK --- In ev_update@..., "cvu1995" <cvu1995@...> wrote:
If you don't use the system regularly, it can leak through the
seals- -so it may be worth trying a charge. The self help kits are getting pretty good these days, I recommend you get one with a pressure
gauge and make sure it is low before you recharge.
Jim Black
--- In ev_update@..., "Ian Mothersill"
<imothers_2000@> wrote:
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k
miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the
van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast) but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide
the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of
just charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a
needle in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
You can use pressure gauges to check the charge, but decent gauges are
not much less than paying a decent AC mechanic to check it for leaks.
You can put in a can of freon and see if the temp drops any.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 6/25/08, kmjones7 <kmjones7@...> wrote: Jim,
I understand having the proper amount of refrigerant in the system is
more of an issue with R134 than was the case with the old R12 stuff,
at any rate you would want to be close. With the old school systems,
you could tell at a glance whether you had the right amount, just
watch for bubbles in the sight glass. However, these are a thing of
the past, as they to have gone away with the R12 refrigerant.
The Bentley service manual would have you use a very expensive
recycling machine to remove the refrigerant from your vehicle, then
put back a specific weight to get the charge to spec. Lacking the
proper tool, how do you get the proper amount of refrigerant?
Ken in AK
--- In ev_update@..., "cvu1995" <cvu1995@...> wrote:
If you don't use the system regularly, it can leak through the
seals-
-so it may be worth trying a charge. The self help kits are getting
pretty good these days, I recommend you get one with a pressure
gauge and make sure it is low before you recharge.
Jim Black
--- In ev_update@..., "Ian Mothersill"
<imothers_2000@> wrote:
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k
miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the
van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all
for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have
not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide
the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of
just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a
needle
in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
|
A system is either overcharged or undercharged and, if your compressor
is working correctly, and your expansion valves aren't plugged, you
don't really need gauges.
(Also, your fans/blowers have to be working correctly, at both the
evaporators and condenser.)
Assuming the system was properly evacuated during the initial charge
(so air w/water vapor was removed), and all that's inside the system
is R134a and PAG oil (and hopefully the correct amount of the latter),
then all that's left is getting to the right amount of R134a.
If you are way under-charged, the compressor won't even engage.
If you are just a little under-charged, the compressor will engage but
cooling will be minimal. You can actually feel that happening by
touching the pipe between the condenser and the receiver/dryer: it
will be hot at the condenser end but will be much cooler at the R/D.
If the system is fully charged the pipe (and the R/D itself) will be
hot to the touch all the way through the R/D.
So, that's two rules of thumb on the too-low-charge issue: no
compressor if it's really low, and a big temp drop that you can feel
by hands-on the condenser outlet if it's just a little low.
After you add some, what happens if you add too much? Again, two
basic warnings. If you add way too much, the system has a high
pressure cut-out that will disable the compressor. If you add only a
little too much you will notice the compressor cycling rapidly (and
the system blowing very cold). If so, just bleed a little off.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In ev_update@..., "kmjones7" <kmjones7@...> wrote:
Jim,
I understand having the proper amount of refrigerant in the system is
more of an issue with R134 than was the case with the old R12 stuff,
at any rate you would want to be close. With the old school systems,
you could tell at a glance whether you had the right amount, just
watch for bubbles in the sight glass. However, these are a thing of
the past, as they to have gone away with the R12 refrigerant.
The Bentley service manual would have you use a very expensive
recycling machine to remove the refrigerant from your vehicle, then
put back a specific weight to get the charge to spec. Lacking the
proper tool, how do you get the proper amount of refrigerant?
Ken in AK
--- In ev_update@..., "cvu1995" <cvu1995@> wrote:
If you don't use the system regularly, it can leak through the
seals-
-so it may be worth trying a charge. The self help kits are getting
pretty good these days, I recommend you get one with a pressure
gauge and make sure it is low before you recharge.
Jim Black
--- In ev_update@..., "Ian Mothersill"
<imothers_2000@> wrote:
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k
miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the
van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all
for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have
not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide
the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of
just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a
needle
in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
Thanks,Dave. That takes the mystery ouy of it and sounds like good
practical advice. After all, hooking meters up is a good way to lose
oil or R134A.
Now how do you locate leakes? I have an old VW Jetta that I can only
keep charged for a short period of time, so you'd think I could find
the leak. It must be the type of leak that only occurs with pressure,
because I can pull a vacuum and the system will hold it for hours. Do
you use any of the dye indicators to find leaks?
Rob
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In ev_update@..., "dave_king_ev" <dave_king_ev@...> wrote:
A system is either overcharged or undercharged and, if your compressor
is working correctly, and your expansion valves aren't plugged, you
don't really need gauges.
(Also, your fans/blowers have to be working correctly, at both the
evaporators and condenser.)
Assuming the system was properly evacuated during the initial charge
(so air w/water vapor was removed), and all that's inside the system
is R134a and PAG oil (and hopefully the correct amount of the latter),
then all that's left is getting to the right amount of R134a.
If you are way under-charged, the compressor won't even engage.
If you are just a little under-charged, the compressor will engage but
cooling will be minimal. You can actually feel that happening by
touching the pipe between the condenser and the receiver/dryer: it
will be hot at the condenser end but will be much cooler at the R/D.
If the system is fully charged the pipe (and the R/D itself) will be
hot to the touch all the way through the R/D.
So, that's two rules of thumb on the too-low-charge issue: no
compressor if it's really low, and a big temp drop that you can feel
by hands-on the condenser outlet if it's just a little low.
After you add some, what happens if you add too much? Again, two
basic warnings. If you add way too much, the system has a high
pressure cut-out that will disable the compressor. If you add only a
little too much you will notice the compressor cycling rapidly (and
the system blowing very cold). If so, just bleed a little off.
--- In ev_update@..., "kmjones7" <kmjones7@> wrote:
Jim,
I understand having the proper amount of refrigerant in the system is
more of an issue with R134 than was the case with the old R12 stuff,
at any rate you would want to be close. With the old school systems,
you could tell at a glance whether you had the right amount, just
watch for bubbles in the sight glass. However, these are a thing of
the past, as they to have gone away with the R12 refrigerant.
The Bentley service manual would have you use a very expensive
recycling machine to remove the refrigerant from your vehicle, then
put back a specific weight to get the charge to spec. Lacking the
proper tool, how do you get the proper amount of refrigerant?
Ken in AK
--- In ev_update@..., "cvu1995" <cvu1995@> wrote:
If you don't use the system regularly, it can leak through the
seals-
-so it may be worth trying a charge. The self help kits are getting
pretty good these days, I recommend you get one with a pressure
gauge and make sure it is low before you recharge.
Jim Black
--- In ev_update@..., "Ian Mothersill"
<imothers_2000@> wrote:
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k
miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough the
van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all
for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have
not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and slide
the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through. Does
this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of
just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a
needle
in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
I use dye (and a black light helps, too). But, most leaks are at the compressor shaft. The other suspects (fittings to coils and valves) typically use reliable o-rings and usually don't leak. Devices (like the low pressure cut out switch and the high pressure cut-out switch) are also worth taking a close look at. --- In ev_update@..., "rvdalton" <rvdalton@...> wrote:
Thanks,Dave. That takes the mystery ouy of it and sounds like good
practical advice. After all, hooking meters up is a good way to lose
oil or R134A.
Now how do you locate leakes? I have an old VW Jetta that I can only
keep charged for a short period of time, so you'd think I could find
the leak. It must be the type of leak that only occurs with pressure,
because I can pull a vacuum and the system will hold it for hours. Do
you use any of the dye indicators to find leaks?
Rob
--- In ev_update@..., "dave_king_ev" <dave_king_ev@> wrote:
A system is either overcharged or undercharged and, if your compressor
is working correctly, and your expansion valves aren't plugged, you
don't really need gauges.
(Also, your fans/blowers have to be working correctly, at both the
evaporators and condenser.)
Assuming the system was properly evacuated during the initial charge
(so air w/water vapor was removed), and all that's inside the system
is R134a and PAG oil (and hopefully the correct amount of the latter),
then all that's left is getting to the right amount of R134a.
If you are way under-charged, the compressor won't even engage.
If you are just a little under-charged, the compressor will engage but
cooling will be minimal. You can actually feel that happening by
touching the pipe between the condenser and the receiver/dryer: it
will be hot at the condenser end but will be much cooler at the R/D.
If the system is fully charged the pipe (and the R/D itself) will be
hot to the touch all the way through the R/D.
So, that's two rules of thumb on the too-low-charge issue: no
compressor if it's really low, and a big temp drop that you can feel
by hands-on the condenser outlet if it's just a little low.
After you add some, what happens if you add too much? Again, two
basic warnings. If you add way too much, the system has a high
pressure cut-out that will disable the compressor. If you add only a
little too much you will notice the compressor cycling rapidly (and
the system blowing very cold). If so, just bleed a little off.
--- In ev_update@..., "kmjones7" <kmjones7@> wrote:
Jim,
I understand having the proper amount of refrigerant in the
system is more of an issue with R134 than was the case with the old R12
stuff, at any rate you would want to be close. With the old school
systems, you could tell at a glance whether you had the right amount, just
watch for bubbles in the sight glass. However, these are a thing of
the past, as they to have gone away with the R12 refrigerant.
The Bentley service manual would have you use a very expensive
recycling machine to remove the refrigerant from your vehicle, then
put back a specific weight to get the charge to spec. Lacking the
proper tool, how do you get the proper amount of refrigerant?
Ken in AK
--- In ev_update@..., "cvu1995" <cvu1995@> wrote:
If you don't use the system regularly, it can leak through the
seals-
-so it may be worth trying a charge. The self help kits are getting
pretty good these days, I recommend you get one with a pressure
gauge and make sure it is low before you recharge.
Jim Black
--- In ev_update@..., "Ian Mothersill"
<imothers_2000@> wrote:
Hi,
Looking for some feedback on A/C service for my 93 EV with 160k
miles.
The compressor was replaced 4 years /30,000 miles ago; the high
pressure switch was replaced about three years ago. I bough
the van 2
summers ago, the A/C blew cold then. Last summer it was OK, but
seemed not quite as good. But then the van would not start at all
for
most of the summer so I didn't worry about the A/C. This
summer, the
A/C blows a bit cooler than outside air, but not by much. We have
not
had anything like *hot* weather yet this year (Canadian west coast)
but I doubt the A/C will be up to 95+ degree weather once it arrives.
If I put the selector on one of the 2 non-A/C settings and
slide the
temp to cold, there is no warmth in the air blowing through.
Does this indicate the foam on the air flaps is OK?
My guess is the R134 needs to be charged up. I am thinking of
just
charging up the system and calling it a day. I know this is
not the
most "responsible" approach, but I am not keen on finding a needle
in
a haystack. Assuming I have a leak, is it likely it can be
found when
the system still works after 2 years, just not as well? How
hard is
it to do the A/C charge - is it worth getting a kit and going
self-serve? Any other suggestions?
thanks,
Ian Mothersill
93 EV Weekender 5sp
Vancouver, Canada
|
