#159629

History of a Mystery — Front End Noise

Angel, my 1997 Eurovan Camper, has been plagued with a rather strange front end noise/vibration that remains a mystery after more than a year’s worth of service visits and expense. Here is the story to the best of my recollections.

I pulled Angel out of winter storage and drove her to my mechanic at the end of March 2017 for work in anticipation of an extended road trip. The timing chains/guide were replaced, an auxiliary transmission cooler installed and two leaking Bilstein front shocks were replaced with a set of regular shocks. After the work was complete, I took a week-long road trip to the Oregon Coast as a test run

Along the way, I began to notice noise coming from what seemed to be the right front that, at first notice, sounded like I was running on rough roads. Once I got into the mountains, I was able to better isolate the sound. It manifested only when turning to the right, usually while going uphill at plus-50 mph speeds or accelerating into curves. The sensation was not as pronounced going download or with little/no acceleration. The sound/vibration was one similar to going over rumble strips, but only at about a 25% or less intensity. In other words, it had a feel of a bearing going bad. There was no problem when running straight or turning toward the left.

Within a week of my return home, I had both front bearings and inner tie rods replaced,? also replaced a missing brake clip and had the front-end aligned. The right-turning-noise issue still remained but was less prevalent. That spring and summer my wife and I made both local Northwest trips and a month long journey to the Southwest, all with the mystery noise in place, but not getting worse.

In September, I drove back to Minnesota and began to experience more noise/vibration while turning right on hills, curves while under load. I had the oil changed in Duluth at a VW dealership and relayed my story to the tech performing the service. He checked around and, I believe, said he was able to slide the axel a bit with his hand. I am not certain what he did, but I do know it made a positive difference, lessening the sound/sensation of right turning.?

The positive effect was hopeful. I made it home without issue, got new tires in October and pretty much garaged Angel for the winter in November. In early February of this year, I brought Angel back to Continental for the mystery noise again. They found failing motor/transmission mounts that need replacement and I was joyful, figuring that was the answer to the mystery. Alas, after the repair, the situation was still in place and in fact had gotten a bit worse.

With another test drive earlier this month, my mechanic determined that perhaps, the bearing from the pervious year had failed and we decided to replace the drive side bearing and upgrade all four shocks to Bilsteins. That procedure was not a solution. In fact, the noise/rumble sensation has now increased to also manifest whenever I turn right or left!?

I know this is a bit of a shaggy-dog story, but if you stuck with it until now and have any ideas, I would welcome them. ? ?

Thanks for your consideration,

Glen Carlson

(Angel also had the GoWesty lift package with rims installed about eight years ago.)

#159631

开云体育

I've never had that problem on my 02EVC- but have seen that on several VW's, AUDI's I have owned. I think it is the CV joint ( usually the outer). Since you raised the EVC, the angle of the axle is a bit different from the stock angle- which might lead to faster wear on the outer CV joint. I would check the CV joint for wear/play. The worst case I had was that the CV joint failed ( would not smoothly change angle as it rotated) so JETTA drove down the road with the LHS going up and down as I drove.

The fact that the tech was able to slide your axle back and forth is a bit worrisome. The only way I think could could happen is that the axle nut was loose ( had that happen on my '97 Subaru Outback) which lead to the demise of that axle.

Good luck

Sam

02 EVC

03 AUDI ALLROAD

97 Subaru Outback

On 4/26/2018 10:41 AM, gcarlson@... [ev_update] wrote:

Show quoted text

?

History of a Mystery — Front End Noise

Angel, my 1997 Eurovan Camper, has been plagued with a rather strange front end noise/vibration that remains a mystery after more than a year’s worth of service visits and expense. Here is the story to the best of my recollections.

I pulled Angel out of winter storage and drove her to my mechanic at the end of March 2017 for work in anticipation of an extended road trip. The timing chains/guide were replaced, an auxiliary transmission cooler installed and two leaking Bilstein front shocks were replaced with a set of regular shocks. After the work was complete, I took a week-long road trip to the Oregon Coast as a test run

Along the way, I began to notice noise coming from what seemed to be the right front that, at first notice, sounded like I was running on rough roads. Once I got into the mountains, I was able to better isolate the sound. It manifested only when turning to the right, usually while going uphill at plus-50 mph speeds or accelerating into curves. The sensation was not as pronounced going download or with little/no acceleration. The sound/vibration was one similar to going over rumble strips, but only at about a 25% or less intensity. In other words, it had a feel of a bearing going bad. There was no problem when running straight or turning toward the left.

Within a week of my return home, I had both front bearings and inner tie rods replaced,? also replaced a missing brake clip and had the front-end aligned. The right-turning-noise issue still remained but was less prevalent. That spring and summer my wife and I made both local Northwest trips and a month long journey to the Southwest, all with the mystery noise in place, but not getting worse.

In September, I drove back to Minnesota and began to experience more noise/vibration while turning right on hills, curves while under load. I had the oil changed in Duluth at a VW dealership and relayed my story to the tech performing the service. He checked around and, I believe, said he was able to slide the axel a bit with his hand. I am not certain what he did, but I do know it made a positive difference, lessening the sound/sensation of right turning.?

The positive effect was hopeful. I made it home without issue, got new tires in October and pretty much garaged Angel for the winter in November. In early February of this year, I brought Angel back to Continental for the mystery noise again. They found failing motor/transmission mounts that need replacement and I was joyful, figuring that was the answer to the mystery. Alas, after the repair, the situation was still in place and in fact had gotten a bit worse.

With another test drive earlier this month, my mechanic determined that perhaps, the bearing from the pervious year had failed and we decided to replace the drive side bearing and upgrade all four shocks to Bilsteins. That procedure was not a solution. In fact, the noise/rumble sensation has now increased to also manifest whenever I turn right or left!?

I know this is a bit of a shaggy-dog story, but if you stuck with it until now and have any ideas, I would welcome them. ? ?

Thanks for your consideration,

Glen Carlson

(Angel also had the GoWesty lift package with rims installed about eight years ago.)

#159630

CV joint 

Bob W

#159633

Inter cv joint bad

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: gcarlson@... [ev_update]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 11:34 AM
To: ev_update@...
Subject: [ev_update] Help Solve the Mystery!

?
History of a Mystery — Front End Noise

Angel, my 1997 Eurovan Camper, has been plagued with a rather strange front end noise/vibration that remains a mystery after more than a year’s worth of service visits and expense. Here is the story to the best of my recollections.

I pulled Angel out of winter storage and drove her to my mechanic at the end of March 2017 for work in anticipation of an extended road trip. The timing chains/guide were replaced, an auxiliary transmission cooler installed and two leaking Bilstein front shocks were replaced with a set of regular shocks. After the work was complete, I took a week-long road trip to the Oregon Coast as a test run

Along the way, I began to notice noise coming from what seemed to be the right front that, at first notice, sounded like I was running on rough roads. Once I got into the mountains, I was able to better isolate the sound. It manifested only when turning to the right, usually while going uphill at plus-50 mph speeds or accelerating into curves. The sensation was not as pronounced going download or with little/no acceleration. The sound/vibration was one similar to going over rumble strips, but only at about a 25% or less intensity. In other words, it had a feel of a bearing going bad. There was no problem when running straight or turning toward the left.

Within a week of my return home, I had both front bearings and inner tie rods replaced,? also replaced a missing brake clip and had the front-end aligned. The right-turning-noise issue still remained but was less prevalent. That spring and summer my wife and I made both local Northwest trips and a month long journey to the Southwest, all with the mystery noise in place, but not getting worse.

In September, I drove back to Minnesota and began to experience more noise/vibration while turning right on hills, curves while under load. I had the oil changed in Duluth at a VW dealership and relayed my story to the tech performing the service. He checked around and, I believe, said he was able to slide the axel a bit with his hand. I am not certain what he did, but I do know it made a positive difference, lessening the sound/sensation of right turning.?

The positive effect was hopeful. I made it home without issue, got new tires in October and pretty much garaged Angel for the winter in November. In early February of this year, I brought Angel back to Continental for the mystery noise again. They found failing motor/transmission mounts that need replacement and I was joyful, figuring that was the answer to the mystery. Alas, after the repair, the situation was still in place and in fact had gotten a bit worse.

With another test drive earlier this month, my mechanic determined that perhaps, the bearing from the pervious year had failed and we decided to replace the drive side bearing and upgrade all four shocks to Bilsteins. That procedure was not a solution. In fact, the noise/rumble sensation has now increased to also manifest whenever I turn right or left!?

I know this is a bit of a shaggy-dog story, but if you stuck with it until now and have any ideas, I would welcome them. ? ?

Thanks for your consideration,

Glen Carlson

(Angel also had the GoWesty lift package with rims installed about eight years ago.)

Bernie Johnsen

#159634

+1 on CV joint.? If it were my van I'd replace the half shafts.? We've had our 95 EVC for 10 years now and put on 134,000 miles since we bought it.? We've replaced ours twice in that time and both times we've had very similar sounding symptoms.?

Show quoted text

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 11:18 AM, Robert Williams Sea2river@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

?

CV joint

Bob W

[email protected]

#159635

We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent.

w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed

#159636

I had an interesting problem with my Dodge Promaster van (also front wheel drive)? - every time I went over a speed bump or a pot hole I got a strange metallic rattle from the rear. The van was very low miles and there was no visual indication of loose suspension or anything else.?

I took it to the dealer, drove it over the speed bumps in their parking lot with the service advisor and it made the same sound. He put it up on the lift and did a full inspection. They found an empty aluminum sports drink can had somehow got stuck deep in the rear body over the spring! It only rattled on full compression of the suspension - a very easy fix...

Dave Richoux

2000 EVC

Show quoted text

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent.

w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed

#159648

开云体育

Following this thread with interest - have similar symptoms and replaced the right inner CV joint at 70K miles, but the problem remained, and am now thinking it's the outer CV joint, and am also thinking "replacing the whole axle". ??

It's notable that the sound (a "tink tink tink" sound that only happens on acceleration) is more prominent when the van is heavily loaded. ? It also comes on only after a while (as if the CV joint must get hot first).

Show quoted text

On Apr 27, 2018, at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent.?

w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed?

[email protected]

#159706

I can believe you Michael. Similar sequence with me: replaced just one joint, only to have the symptoms persist. My saga cost me big bucks, because I did it piece-meal. The labor involved is a lot, so do what is the most cost-effective. Half axles can be got with both CV joints, so your thought is totally logical.

W. Li

#162722

Revisiting an old thread...

2000 EVC with about 110K miles. 

Symptom: since purchasing the van at 70K miles, I've had a "tink tink tink" noise that happens under acceleration, is worse after driving a while (e.g. after things have warmed up), varies with the speed of the wheel (not the engine), and also seems worse when the van is heavily loaded.

Most people have said "CV Joint" and so in 2018 I replaced the right, inner CV joint.  Problem remained.

In June 2021, I replaced the entire right axle (with both outer and inner CV joints).   Problem remained.

So, what's left?  The sound definitely seems to be on the right side of the vehicle, but maybe it's from actually coming the left side?  Wheel Bearings?  Half shaft?

Remanufactured axles are cheap now (under $200) so I could just replace the left side to be prudent.

Show quoted text

On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Michael Diehr md03@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

Following this thread with interest - have similar symptoms and replaced the right inner CV joint at 70K miles, but the problem remained, and am now thinking it's the outer CV joint, and am also thinking "replacing the whole axle".   

It's notable that the sound (a "tink tink tink" sound that only happens on acceleration) is more prominent when the van is heavily loaded.   It also comes on only after a while (as if the CV joint must get hot first).

On Apr 27, 2018, at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent. 

w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed 

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Posted by: Michael Diehr <md03@...> 

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#162723

Michael

"tink. tink, tink"?
Would you say a 'rattling'?
Sound like pre detonation ('knock' is another term) to me.
What grade of fuel are you using?
I'm betting the cheapest 87 grade you can find??
Pre detonation can damage the engine.
Fill it up with the highest grade fuel you can find, like 93.
Ethonal free is even better.
Dam the cost, you'll have no more "tick, tick, tick", better performance
better miles per gallon.

Kent Kirkley

'97EVC

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!

Revisiting an old thread...

2000 EVC with about 110K miles.

Symptom: since purchasing the van at 70K miles, I've had a "tink tink tink" noise that happens under acceleration, is worse after driving a while (e.g. after things have warmed up), varies with the speed of the wheel (not the engine), and also seems worse when the van is heavily loaded.

Most people have said "CV Joint" and so in 2018 I replaced the right, inner CV joint.? Problem remained.

In June 2021, I replaced the entire right axle (with both outer and inner CV joints).? Problem remained.

So, what's left?? The sound definitely seems to be on the right side of the vehicle, but maybe it's from actually coming the left side?? Wheel Bearings?? Half shaft?

Remanufactured axles are cheap now (under $200) so I could just replace the left side to be prudent.

>

>> On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Michael Diehr md03@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

>>

>> Following this thread with interest - have similar symptoms and replaced the right inner CV joint at 70K miles, but the problem remained, and am now thinking it's the outer CV joint, and am also thinking "replacing the whole axle".?

>>

>> It's notable that the sound (a "tink tink tink" sound that only happens on acceleration) is more prominent when the van is heavily loaded.? It also comes on only after a while (as if the CV joint must get hot first).

>>

>>> On Apr 27, 2018, at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

>>>

>>> We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent.

>>>

>>> w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed

>>>

>>

>> __._,_.___

>> Posted by: Michael Diehr <md03@...>

>>

>> To unsubscribe from this group, send a message to

>> mailto:ev_update-unsubscribe@...

>>

>> VISIT YOUR GROUP

>> ? Privacy ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use

>>

>> __,_._,___

>

#162724

Kent, good idea, but I'm pretty sure it's not knock:

- it happens at Tire speed, not Engine speed. E.g., I can downshift and the noise happens at the same rate.  I'd estimate the tink sounds are happening roughly 10 per second.
- this van has 205/60 R16 tires which have a diameter of 25.7", or a circumference of π x D = about 81 inches. 
- at 60mph, the tires are traveling 60 mph * 5280 ft/mile * 12 inches/ft / 3600 seconds/hour = 1056 inches per second / 81 inches per revolution = about 13 revolutions per second.
- if it were knock, it would be happening at engine RPM - and even if it were only knocking on 1 cylinder, when driving at 3000 RPM, it would be happening at least 50 times per second.
- Also, dear sir, in spite of your suggestion that I am a cheapskate, I run 91 octane gas! :-)

In conclusion, I'm pretty sure it's drivetrain-related.

Mike

p.s. where does one find 93 octane no-ethanol gas?  At an airport?

Show quoted text

On Jul 21, 2021, at 6:23 PM, Kent Kirkley via groups.io <kgkirkley@...> wrote:

Michael

"tink. tink, tink"?
Would you say a 'rattling'?
Sound like pre detonation ('knock' is another term) to me.
What grade of fuel are you using?
I'm betting the cheapest 87 grade you can find??
Pre detonation can damage the engine.
Fill it up with the highest grade fuel you can find, like 93.
Ethonal free is even better.
Dam the cost, you'll have no more "tick, tick, tick", better performance 
better miles per gallon.
Kent Kirkley
'97EVC

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!

Revisiting an old thread...

2000 EVC with about 110K miles. 

Symptom: since purchasing the van at 70K miles, I've had a "tink tink tink" noise that happens under acceleration, is worse after driving a while (e.g. after things have warmed up), varies with the speed of the wheel (not the engine), and also seems worse when the van is heavily loaded.

Most people have said "CV Joint" and so in 2018 I replaced the right, inner CV joint.  Problem remained.

In June 2021, I replaced the entire right axle (with both outer and inner CV joints).  Problem remained.

So, what's left?  The sound definitely seems to be on the right side of the vehicle, but maybe it's from actually coming the left side?  Wheel Bearings?  Half shaft?

Remanufactured axles are cheap now (under $200) so I could just replace the left side to be prudent.

On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Michael Diehr md03@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

Following this thread with interest - have similar symptoms and replaced the right inner CV joint at 70K miles, but the problem remained, and am now thinking it's the outer CV joint, and am also thinking "replacing the whole axle".

It's notable that the sound (a "tink tink tink" sound that only happens on acceleration) is more prominent when the van is heavily loaded.  It also comes on only after a while (as if the CV joint must get hot first).

On Apr 27, 2018, at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:

We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent. 

w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed 

__._,_.___
Posted by: Michael Diehr <md03@...> 

To unsubscribe from this group, send a message to 
mailto:ev_update-unsubscribe@...

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__,_._,___

#162725

MIchael

Ok
Check your tires for a rock, etc. embedded in the tire on that side of the vehicle.
I was being humorous about the low grade gas, Ha!
Kent

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!

Kent, good idea, but I'm pretty sure it's not knock:

- it happens at Tire speed, not Engine speed. E.g., I can downshift and the noise happens at the same rate.? I'd estimate the tink sounds are happening roughly 10 per second.
- this van has 205/60 R16 tires which have a diameter of 25.7", or a circumference of π x D = about 81 inches.
- at 60mph, the tires are traveling 60 mph * 5280 ft/mile * 12 inches/ft / 3600 seconds/hour = 1056 inches per second / 81 inches per revolution = about 13 revolutions per second.
- if it were knock, it would be happening at engine RPM - and even if it were only knocking on 1 cylinder, when driving at 3000 RPM, it would be happening at least 50 times per second.
- Also, dear sir, in spite of your suggestion that I am a cheapskate, I run 91 octane gas! :-)

In conclusion, I'm pretty sure it's drivetrain-related.

Mike

p.s. where does one find 93 octane no-ethanol gas?? At an airport?

> On Jul 21, 2021, at 6:23 PM, Kent Kirkley via groups.io <kgkirkley=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Michael
>
>
> "tink. tink, tink"?
> Would you say a 'rattling'?
> Sound like pre detonation ('knock' is another term) to me.
> What grade of fuel are you using?
> I'm betting the cheapest 87 grade you can find??
> Pre detonation can damage the engine.
> Fill it up with the highest grade fuel you can find, like 93.
> Ethonal free is even better.
> Dam the cost, you'll have no more "tick, tick, tick", better performance
> better miles per gallon.
> Kent Kirkley
> '97EVC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 7:56 pm
> Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!
>
> Revisiting an old thread...
>
> 2000 EVC with about 110K miles.
>
> Symptom: since purchasing the van at 70K miles, I've had a "tink tink tink" noise that happens under acceleration, is worse after driving a while (e.g. after things have warmed up), varies with the speed of the wheel (not the engine), and also seems worse when the van is heavily loaded.
>
> Most people have said "CV Joint" and so in 2018 I replaced the right, inner CV joint.? Problem remained.
>
> In June 2021, I replaced the entire right axle (with both outer and inner CV joints).? Problem remained.
>
> So, what's left?? The sound definitely seems to be on the right side of the vehicle, but maybe it's from actually coming the left side?? Wheel Bearings?? Half shaft?
>
> Remanufactured axles are cheap now (under $200) so I could just replace the left side to be prudent.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >> On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Michael Diehr md03@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Following this thread with interest - have similar symptoms and replaced the right inner CV joint at 70K miles, but the problem remained, and am now thinking it's the outer CV joint, and am also thinking "replacing the whole axle".
> >>
> >> It's notable that the sound (a "tink tink tink" sound that only happens on acceleration) is more prominent when the van is heavily loaded.? It also comes on only after a while (as if the CV joint must get hot first).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 27, 2018, at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent.
> >>>
> >>> w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __._,_.___
> >> Posted by: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send a message to
> >> mailto:ev_update-unsubscribe@...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> VISIT YOUR GROUP
> >> ? Privacy ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use
> >>
> >> __,_._,___
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

#162726

I know this is a long shot but do you have wheel covers or hubcap things? Pop those off. Ours come loose and start to make various sounds.?

Also maybe the sheet metal shield behind the rotor? But that not be temperature depend.

Curious the source.?

And here in Virginia I find 93 octane at a few places and on recent trip to Maine I found it here and there.

Show quoted text

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 9:56 PM Kent Kirkley via <kgkirkley=[email protected]> wrote:

MIchael

Ok
Check your tires for a rock, etc. embedded in the tire on that side of the vehicle.
I was being humorous about the low grade gas, Ha!
Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!

Kent, good idea, but I'm pretty sure it's not knock:

- it happens at Tire speed, not Engine speed. E.g., I can downshift and the noise happens at the same rate.? I'd estimate the tink sounds are happening roughly 10 per second.
- this van has 205/60 R16 tires which have a diameter of 25.7", or a circumference of π x D = about 81 inches.
- at 60mph, the tires are traveling 60 mph * 5280 ft/mile * 12 inches/ft / 3600 seconds/hour = 1056 inches per second / 81 inches per revolution = about 13 revolutions per second.
- if it were knock, it would be happening at engine RPM - and even if it were only knocking on 1 cylinder, when driving at 3000 RPM, it would be happening at least 50 times per second.
- Also, dear sir, in spite of your suggestion that I am a cheapskate, I run 91 octane gas! :-)

In conclusion, I'm pretty sure it's drivetrain-related.

Mike

p.s. where does one find 93 octane no-ethanol gas?? At an airport?

> On Jul 21, 2021, at 6:23 PM, Kent Kirkley via <kgkirkley=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Michael
>
>
> "tink. tink, tink"?
> Would you say a 'rattling'?
> Sound like pre detonation ('knock' is another term) to me.
> What grade of fuel are you using?
> I'm betting the cheapest 87 grade you can find??
> Pre detonation can damage the engine.
> Fill it up with the highest grade fuel you can find, like 93.
> Ethonal free is even better.
> Dam the cost, you'll have no more "tick, tick, tick", better performance
> better miles per gallon.
> Kent Kirkley
> '97EVC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 7:56 pm
> Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!
>
> Revisiting an old thread...
>
> 2000 EVC with about 110K miles.
>
> Symptom: since purchasing the van at 70K miles, I've had a "tink tink tink" noise that happens under acceleration, is worse after driving a while (e.g. after things have warmed up), varies with the speed of the wheel (not the engine), and also seems worse when the van is heavily loaded.
>
> Most people have said "CV Joint" and so in 2018 I replaced the right, inner CV joint.? Problem remained.
>
> In June 2021, I replaced the entire right axle (with both outer and inner CV joints).? Problem remained.
>
> So, what's left?? The sound definitely seems to be on the right side of the vehicle, but maybe it's from actually coming the left side?? Wheel Bearings?? Half shaft?
>
> Remanufactured axles are cheap now (under $200) so I could just replace the left side to be prudent.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >> On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Michael Diehr md03@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Following this thread with interest - have similar symptoms and replaced the right inner CV joint at 70K miles, but the problem remained, and am now thinking it's the outer CV joint, and am also thinking "replacing the whole axle".
> >>
> >> It's notable that the sound (a "tink tink tink" sound that only happens on acceleration) is more prominent when the van is heavily loaded.? It also comes on only after a while (as if the CV joint must get hot first).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 27, 2018, at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent.
> >>>
> >>> w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __._,_.___
> >> Posted by: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send a message to
> >> mailto:ev_update-unsubscribe@...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> VISIT YOUR GROUP
> >> ? Privacy ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use
> >>
> >> __,_._,___
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Barry Grosman

#162727

开云体育

We had a (possibly) similar noise on another vehicle that turned out to be caused by a nail in a front tire. I suspected this possibility from the outset but I was unable to find the nail and neither was the dealership the first and second times I asked them to look (and took a drive with them to demonstrate). Ultimately they found it when doing a winter tire swap. There was never any loss of air pressure. Perhaps you could swap your tires front to rear and see if the location of the sound seems to move. Also, maybe you could do the math to see if the noise occurs once per tire revolution. Good luck!

Take care,

Barry?

Show quoted text

On Jul 21, 2021, at 10:07 PM, Craig <craig.mcclung@...> wrote:

?
I know this is a long shot but do you have wheel covers or hubcap things? Pop those off. Ours come loose and start to make various sounds.?

Also maybe the sheet metal shield behind the rotor? But that not be temperature depend.

Curious the source.?

And here in Virginia I find 93 octane at a few places and on recent trip to Maine I found it here and there.

On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 9:56 PM Kent Kirkley via <kgkirkley=[email protected]> wrote:

MIchael

Ok
Check your tires for a rock, etc. embedded in the tire on that side of the vehicle.
I was being humorous about the low grade gas, Ha!
Kent

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!

Kent, good idea, but I'm pretty sure it's not knock:

- it happens at Tire speed, not Engine speed. E.g., I can downshift and the noise happens at the same rate.? I'd estimate the tink sounds are happening roughly 10 per second.
- this van has 205/60 R16 tires which have a diameter of 25.7", or a circumference of π x D = about 81 inches.
- at 60mph, the tires are traveling 60 mph * 5280 ft/mile * 12 inches/ft / 3600 seconds/hour = 1056 inches per second / 81 inches per revolution = about 13 revolutions per second.
- if it were knock, it would be happening at engine RPM - and even if it were only knocking on 1 cylinder, when driving at 3000 RPM, it would be happening at least 50 times per second.
- Also, dear sir, in spite of your suggestion that I am a cheapskate, I run 91 octane gas! :-)

In conclusion, I'm pretty sure it's drivetrain-related.

Mike

p.s. where does one find 93 octane no-ethanol gas?? At an airport?

> On Jul 21, 2021, at 6:23 PM, Kent Kirkley via <kgkirkley=[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Michael
>
>
> "tink. tink, tink"?
> Would you say a 'rattling'?
> Sound like pre detonation ('knock' is another term) to me.
> What grade of fuel are you using?
> I'm betting the cheapest 87 grade you can find??
> Pre detonation can damage the engine.
> Fill it up with the highest grade fuel you can find, like 93.
> Ethonal free is even better.
> Dam the cost, you'll have no more "tick, tick, tick", better performance
> better miles per gallon.
> Kent Kirkley
> '97EVC
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wed, Jul 21, 2021 7:56 pm
> Subject: Re: [eurovanupdate] Help Solve the Mystery!
>
> Revisiting an old thread...
>
> 2000 EVC with about 110K miles.
>
> Symptom: since purchasing the van at 70K miles, I've had a "tink tink tink" noise that happens under acceleration, is worse after driving a while (e.g. after things have warmed up), varies with the speed of the wheel (not the engine), and also seems worse when the van is heavily loaded.
>
> Most people have said "CV Joint" and so in 2018 I replaced the right, inner CV joint.? Problem remained.
>
> In June 2021, I replaced the entire right axle (with both outer and inner CV joints).? Problem remained.
>
> So, what's left?? The sound definitely seems to be on the right side of the vehicle, but maybe it's from actually coming the left side?? Wheel Bearings?? Half shaft?
>
> Remanufactured axles are cheap now (under $200) so I could just replace the left side to be prudent.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >> On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:17 PM, Michael Diehr md03@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Following this thread with interest - have similar symptoms and replaced the right inner CV joint at 70K miles, but the problem remained, and am now thinking it's the outer CV joint, and am also thinking "replacing the whole axle".
> >>
> >> It's notable that the sound (a "tink tink tink" sound that only happens on acceleration) is more prominent when the van is heavily loaded.? It also comes on only after a while (as if the CV joint must get hot first).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 27, 2018, at 7:12 PM, wli98122@... [ev_update] <ev_update@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We have had similar symptoms. Had to replace BOTH inner and outer CV joints on both sides. Upon inspection, it was the inner ones that failed due to decay of the lubricant (dry dust) and deep scoring of the runs, whereas the outer joints were fine with nice grease and shiny runs. One thing: all the CV boots were intact, with no cuts or holes in them. Our experience was unusual, since most of the time it is the outer CV joints that fail, due to holes in the boots that let grime and dirt in. This occurred for us around 120K miles. Now have 170K and both are still silent.
> >>>
> >>> w. Li 95 EVC 5-speed
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __._,_.___
> >> Posted by: Michael Diehr <md03@...>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send a message to
> >> mailto:ev_update-unsubscribe@...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> VISIT YOUR GROUP
> >> ? Privacy ? Unsubscribe ? Terms of Use
> >>
> >> __,_._,___
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

W. Li

#162728

I had a similar problem, no easy to pin-point right from left sometimes... our ears can be fooled. In my EVC, I heard it from the "right side" ? (I thought). ? But in fact it was coming from BOTH CV joints.? Cured only by having them replace inner and outers on both sides....

W. Li
95 EVC?? 160K

#162731

I might just replace the left axle to keep the whole repair maint thing balanced and then eliminate the CV joints once and for all as a possiblity.

#162732

Thanks for all the info and tips:

- nail or rocks in the tire? Unlikely, since the noise is very sensitive to throttle position (and goes away entirely if you are decelerating).  
- which side is the noise on?  W. Li points out that it may be hard to hear, and fixed the issue by changing out CV joints on both sides.
- Steve points out that having changed the right axle, might make sense to change the left one too so both are the same age.

Therefore, I'm leaning towards changing the left axle too.  They are only $100 at Europarts-sd.com so not a large cost.  I did the right side myself a few weeks ago and it was a 2-3 hour job (would have been easier with a helper, but with some big pry bars and a bottle jack, was doable solo).

Any thoughts about whether the left axle replacement is easier or harder than right?

#162733

See on you-tube how to test wheel bearing.? It probably the rear.

#162734

I have the same issue very infrequently on my 95 EVC, added the lift kit and Bilstein's about 45 years ago, and new drive axels last fall, that's when I noticed the issue arising.