Right? . .? today is Sunday so let¡¯s see what we can do ?
Firstly to recap for Ross as to why we want to do this
The output of a VFD is a square wave of full voltage but varying interval
This output therefore consists not only of the 0 ¨C 60Hz fundamental that the motor wants , but also a lot of high frequency high voltage components which can damage the insulation on older motors and cause motor failure
( In this discussion Carl reported two motor burnouts for this reason before he installed a filter ?)
One option when using a VFD with older motors ?is therefore to use a reactor to reduce these high frequency spikes
Newer motors with higher grade insulation are generally OK
Not all VFD¡¯s are the same and differ in terms of the type of control circuitry and the type of output devices used ( MOSFET or IGBT¡¯s ) so some VFDs are happy to look into a load reactor while others such as your TECO example might not be
Both my Yaskawa and Hitachi drives show load reactors as standard options? . .? see this example ?. . ..but check the owner¡¯s manual for yours first
?
So to come back to Sierra¡¯s question? , what is a reactor and what does it do ?
In this context a reactor is basically a choke which in turn is basically just a coil of wire wound on a laminated steel core
As such it has a certain inductance ( measured in millihenry¡¯s ¨C mH ) and exhibits a certain amount of ¡°AC resistance¡± to AC current passing through it
HOWEVER? . .? this ¡°AC Resistance¡± ?which we refer to as ¡°Reactance¡± is proportional to frequency which is where the trick comes in
So low frequency current at motor frequency goes through virtually unhindered while the high frequency components encounter significant resistance and are therefore filtered out or at least reduced ?
So the gauge of the wire used must be heavy enough to carry the motor current and the insulation must be tough enough to withstand the spikes which it is being subjected to
For completeness , in the VFD literature we will also see reference to ¡° lineside reactors¡± ?
These are connected between the mains supply and the VFD on occasion ?
They can be used where the supply is noisy to keep such noise out of the VFD , or to stop noise generated by the VFD from feeding back into the supply and upsetting other sensitive equipment on the same circuit , but these do not normally feature in our applications
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sierra Tunafish Monkeymind Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2025 2:38 AM To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [emcoV10lathe] vfd load reactor suggestions?
?
Ha, this now has me as more confustercatededed than I was before¡.
except on tuesdays unless it¡¯s Friday, with an added, better better not and soon?
So much to consider and it¡¯s hard to know
Sierra
On Mar 22, 2025, at 4:09?PM, Morepork via groups.io <ross.a.jennings@...> wrote:
?
Hi Sierra,
?
Sorry cant help with a inxpensive recommendation but you may want to check you VFD manual.? My TECO manual actually recommends NOT adding any capacitive, LC or RC components on the load side.? It does, obviously, recommend a reactor filter for the Line side for improving power quality - PFC and harmonics etc - and line thermal relays.
?
That said, I do understand the reasoning for some DV/Dt sine filtering on the load side for longer cable lenghts to prevent voltage spikes and, I guess more importantly for you, help prevent "laminar squeal" and deteriation of the winding insulation on older motors.? If the latter is the case then the best option, really, is to replace the motor with a inverter duty type, but that could come at a higher cost than a sine filter.
Please note this explanation works on concept level, and is not always what is actually happening.
VFD itself doesn't produce voltage spikes, it turns the power fully on and fully off very quickly and varies how long it's on each cycle (square wave in the picture below). Effective voltage is an integral of that (sine wave in the picture below). Think about it like blipping a motor on a big wheel bandsaw a few times to get it up to speed slowly. It has a lot of inertia and each time you blip the motor on you add energy to the system.
VFD on-off output is then smoothed by the winding which resists current change, effectively making a low pass current filter - higher frequency is blocked and lower one is allowed through.
When you switch the power off on the winding (or any inductor) it still opposes any current change and it starts dumping stored magnetic energy to keep the current going, but if you just disconnected the power the current has nowhere to go. This results in a voltage rise (spike) over the winding and this voltage can be significantly larger then what was originally supplied by the VFD. This is similar to the water hammer that occurs when you close off the tap quickly. Spikes are very short and they don't have a whole lot of energy, but you get one each time the VFD switches, which is usually 4-20 thousand times a second (4-20Hz). Maximum voltage the spike will hit depends on the speed the VFD transistor switches off. You could make the transistor turn off slower, but that results in heat (in the transistor) and overall inefficiency which is not good.
VFDs (good ones at least) include some sort of a freewheeling diode variant that
allows the inductor current to keep flowing after the power is switched
off.
Simplest way is to include a diode in parallel to the inductor so when power is switched off, current can flow the diode instead of through the VFD and "freewheel" between the winding and the diode (VFDs don't actually use diodes for this, but the principle is the same). Bicycle analogy works for this, bad idea circuit is like a fixie - if you try to stop pedalling, the energy in the system will still force your legs up and down. A regular freewheeling bike will allow for the pedals to remain stationary even when the bike is still moving.
So far so good, but each wire is an inductor, capacitor and resistor in one, so there are higher order effects because of that and other reasons. For instance, diode needs a bit od time to start conducting. It means it won't get the first (and the worst) of the voltage spike.
When you add filters to the motor, you're either slowing down the switching speed, thus making the spikes smaller or trying to arrest the voltage spikes once they occur (or both).?
Regards
Vedran
On Sun, Mar 23, 2025 at 12:13?AM Sierra Tunafish Monkeymind via <barkingcarpet=[email protected]> wrote:
Ok, so it is there to smoothe it out, but, what of the voltage spikes/wave form whatevers(I¡¯m outta my apples n oranges here) but, don¡¯t the vfd¡¯s output voltage spikes?
Are the chokes set or can so set so that it does not go above 240 volts?
Yes, I¡¯m confused by it
On Mar 22, 2025, at 3:00?PM, cwlathes via <carvelw=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Hi Sierra
The choke / reactor is there in series to smooth out the current going through it , so the voltage rating is just an insulation issue
So the voltage rating must be equal to or higher than whatever voltage your VFD is pushing through it
Thank Ye Carvel. I get confused with the voltage ratings on the ones I see listed at 4 and 600v and am unsure if I need something specific for 240v, or if they are rated for higher but limit it via some other parameters or settings?
On Mar 22, 2025, at 1:11?PM, cwlathes via <carvelw=[email protected]> wrote:
?
Hi Sierra
The chokes / reactors will be heavy , even smaller one ? , so you want something not too far away? . .?
Suggest do a search along the lines of ¡° VFD load reactor I kW ¡° and see
I notice lots of stuff , new and used, on our well known auction site ?
Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.
?
Sierra
Re: can I drill the hole in the carriage for the cross slide lead screw hole through?
You'll obviously make your one choice in the end, but if it was my machine, I'd keep the current leadscrew arrangement if possible. I think I went looking once and decided a ball nut should fit inside the space of the original nut without serious modifications to the original casting. I couldn't tell you which size ballscrew I was looking at though. You could probably get away with NEMA 23 size stepper or servo that can be installed with output towards the operator as Roman already showed. If your machine is mounted high enough, you might even be able to mount the motor underneath the carriage where it won't bother you at all. At that point, you can keep the handwheel in the original position on the end of the leadscrew and have the whole thing add just the thickness of the toothed belt pulley in front of the machine.
Keep in mind that classic machine (sliding ways, non ball screw) CNC conversions are not recommended as they tend to wear quickly. When cranking the machine by hand you are rather limited by how fast and how often you can make it move. CNC has almost no such limitations (in practical terms) and will add figurative miles quickly. You should also consider modifying the machine for automatic lubrication to help with wear.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 9:18?PM cwlathes via <carvelw=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Eric
Thanks for the positive feedback? . . .? the group is what the members make it , so at best we are just really there to grease the wheels? . . .? or should that be lead screws . . . ?
I am not a CNC expert and none of my machines have gone that route , so I will just have to salute as you guys go past
My only suggestion would be that if I was going to engage in some major structural modification to the machine I would try and source a duplicate spare part before I start , so that if it doesn¡¯t work out I can always backtrack to a working original machine ?
Regards,
Carvel
?
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of eric warner via Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 3:39 PM To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [emcoV10lathe] can I drill the hole in the carriage for the cross slide lead screw hole through?
?
Vedran and Carvel -?
?
Thanks for getting back to me.? I figured that one or the other of you would reply :).? I've been on this group for years and greatly appreciate all of your wisdom and help that you have shared with others and I have quietly gleaned over the years.??
A number of years ago I designed and built a CNC retrofit on my V-10 using stepper motors and a MAXNC controller (long gone CNC company running on MS-DOS...).? I ran this system for years and it was one of the best things I did on my lathe.? The controller has subsequently died and I have about a 6" long extension out the front of my lathe now that just always seems to get in the way.? I have a handwheel on the backside of the stepper to manually drive the motor until I get my new CNC controller wired up and running.? I also have a large amount of backlash in the cross slide lead screw, so this got me thinking...??
My thought was to replace the lead screw with a new lead screw and nut (eliminate much of the backlash) and mount the motor on the backside.? I could then run the lead screw out the front and put the nut on the cross slide rather than in the carriage.? The only downside is that the end of the screw will be sticking out the front at the same distance always (unless I add a spline connection and have the lead screw move back and forth through the spline, but I don't think I want to go to that level of complexity...).
?
Originally what got me thinking down this path was that I wanted to put a longer lead screw on so that I could run the cross slide out further to be able to get enough clearance under an 8" diameter part that I need to turn...? That idea is no longer running, but moving the motor to the backside is still on my mind...
Again your help and comments are greatly appreciated!
That ties up with the info which I have from RIFA capacitors and other
The automatic feed with its gearing and inertia can present a significant load even without actually driving a cut , and particularly when cold , so you might have to wire in an additional start capacitor for it? . . .? try it and see but get an extra one when ordering to avoid the irritation ?
I was always planning on running the motor at constant speed, and I had forgotten about the capacitor option. I think I might try that in the first instance, and see if I'm happy with that setup. Thanks for the reminder of that.?
?
I found this video giving a guideline on capacitor size:
I'm going to get a 3.5uF cap for the power feed, and 20uF for the spindle. I read that a starter cap is only really needed when the motor starts under load, which this will not, so I'll forego that for now.?
I was always planning on running the motor at constant speed, and I had forgotten about the capacitor option. I think I might try that in the first instance, and see if I'm happy with that setup. Thanks for the reminder of that.?
?
I found this video giving a guideline on capacitor size:
I'm going to get a 3.5uF cap for the power feed, and 20uF for the spindle. I read that a starter cap is only really needed when the motor starts under load, which this will not, so I'll forego that for now.?
On Mar 22, 2025, at 4:09?PM, Morepork via groups.io <ross.a.jennings@...> wrote:
?
Hi Sierra,
?
Sorry cant help with a inxpensive recommendation but you may want to check you VFD manual.? My TECO manual actually recommends NOT adding any capacitive, LC or RC components on the load side.? It does, obviously, recommend a reactor filter for the Line side for improving power quality - PFC and harmonics etc - and line thermal relays.
?
That said, I do understand the reasoning for some DV/Dt sine filtering on the load side for longer cable lenghts to prevent voltage spikes and, I guess more importantly for you, help prevent "laminar squeal" and deteriation of the winding insulation on older motors.? If the latter is the case then the best option, really, is to replace the motor with a inverter duty type, but that could come at a higher cost than a sine filter.
Ok, so it is there to smoothe it out, but, what of the voltage spikes/wave form whatevers(I¡¯m outta my apples n oranges here) but, don¡¯t the vfd¡¯s output voltage spikes?
Are the chokes set or can so set so that it does not go above 240 volts?
Thank Ye Carvel. I get confused with the voltage ratings on the ones I see listed at 4 and 600v and am unsure if I need something specific for 240v, or if they are rated for higher but limit it via some other parameters or settings?
On Mar 22, 2025, at 1:11?PM, cwlathes via groups.io <carvelw@...> wrote:
?
Hi Sierra
The chokes / reactors will be heavy , even smaller one ? , so you want something not too far away? . .?
Suggest do a search along the lines of ¡° VFD load reactor I kW ¡° and see
I notice lots of stuff , new and used, on our well known auction site ?
Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.
Sorry cant help with a inxpensive recommendation but you may want to check you VFD manual.? My TECO manual actually recommends NOT adding any capacitive, LC or RC components on the load side.? It does, obviously, recommend a reactor filter for the Line side for improving power quality - PFC and harmonics etc - and line thermal relays.
?
That said, I do understand the reasoning for some DV/Dt sine filtering on the load side for longer cable lenghts to prevent voltage spikes and, I guess more importantly for you, help prevent "laminar squeal" and deteriation of the winding insulation on older motors.? If the latter is the case then the best option, really, is to replace the motor with a inverter duty type, but that could come at a higher cost than a sine filter.
Thank Ye Carvel. I get confused with the voltage ratings on the ones I see listed at 4 and 600v and am unsure if I need something specific for 240v, or if they are rated for higher but limit it via some other parameters or settings?
On Mar 22, 2025, at 1:11?PM, cwlathes via groups.io <carvelw@...> wrote:
?
Hi Sierra
The chokes / reactors will be heavy , even smaller one ? , so you want something not too far away? . .?
Suggest do a search along the lines of ¡° VFD load reactor I kW ¡° and see
I notice lots of stuff , new and used, on our well known auction site ?
Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.
Thank Ye Carvel. I get confused with the voltage ratings on the ones I see listed at 4 and 600v and am unsure if I need something specific for 240v, or if they are rated for higher but limit it via some other parameters or settings?
On Mar 22, 2025, at 1:11?PM, cwlathes via groups.io <carvelw@...> wrote:
?
Hi Sierra
The chokes / reactors will be heavy , even smaller one ? , so you want something not too far away? . .?
Suggest do a search along the lines of ¡° VFD load reactor I kW ¡° and see
I notice lots of stuff , new and used, on our well known auction site ?
Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.
Thank Ye Carvel. I get confused with the voltage ratings on the ones I see listed at 4 and 600v and am unsure if I need something specific for 240v, or if they are rated for higher but limit it via some other parameters or settings?
Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.
?When i had my gear made, lots of years ago now, i asked for a Tufnol replacement ,the guy said that there are better products available now, so I went with his suggestion. Sorry can¡¯t remember what was used, but it may be worth a hunt around to see what¡¯s out there, if you are thinking of cutting the gear.
?
Cheers Kerrin
Re: can I drill the hole in the carriage for the cross slide lead screw hole through?
Thanks for the positive feedback? . . .? the group is what the members make it , so at best we are just really there to grease the wheels? . . .? or should that be lead screws . . . ?
I am not a CNC expert and none of my machines have gone that route , so I will just have to salute as you guys go past
My only suggestion would be that if I was going to engage in some major structural modification to the machine I would try and source a duplicate spare part before I start , so that if it doesn¡¯t work out I can always backtrack to a working original machine ?
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of eric warner via groups.io Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 3:39 PM To:[email protected] Subject: Re: [emcoV10lathe] can I drill the hole in the carriage for the cross slide lead screw hole through?
?
Vedran and Carvel -?
?
Thanks for getting back to me.? I figured that one or the other of you would reply :).? I've been on this group for years and greatly appreciate all of your wisdom and help that you have shared with others and I have quietly gleaned over the years.??
A number of years ago I designed and built a CNC retrofit on my V-10 using stepper motors and a MAXNC controller (long gone CNC company running on MS-DOS...).? I ran this system for years and it was one of the best things I did on my lathe.? The controller has subsequently died and I have about a 6" long extension out the front of my lathe now that just always seems to get in the way.? I have a handwheel on the backside of the stepper to manually drive the motor until I get my new CNC controller wired up and running.? I also have a large amount of backlash in the cross slide lead screw, so this got me thinking...??
My thought was to replace the lead screw with a new lead screw and nut (eliminate much of the backlash) and mount the motor on the backside.? I could then run the lead screw out the front and put the nut on the cross slide rather than in the carriage.? The only downside is that the end of the screw will be sticking out the front at the same distance always (unless I add a spline connection and have the lead screw move back and forth through the spline, but I don't think I want to go to that level of complexity...).
?
Originally what got me thinking down this path was that I wanted to put a longer lead screw on so that I could run the cross slide out further to be able to get enough clearance under an 8" diameter part that I need to turn...? That idea is no longer running, but moving the motor to the backside is still on my mind...
Again your help and comments are greatly appreciated!
Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.
Hi Ryan , I'm not sure how much, but maybe it's possible that over the years of being in oil, the Tofnol wheel has increased in volume a little. On Monday I'll call the company that sells TUFNOL and I will ask if it's possible and if so, how much it would increase in volume. regards Roman
PS:here is one company in england specialisate for sale tufnol?
Ot¨¢zka pro v¨¢s v?echny, kte?¨ª mo?n¨¢ v¨§d¨ª o p?evodech v¨ªce ne? j¨¢.
Kdy? jsem poprv¨¦ za?al tisknout tyto n¨¢hrady, v?iml jsem si, ?e hroty p?vodn¨ªch ozuben?ch kol tr?ely jen o n¨§co d¨¢le ne? moje 3D ti?t¨§n¨¦ verze. Nezd¨¢ se, ?e by do?lo ke smr?t¨§n¨ª 3D tisku nebo ?ehokoli jin¨¦ho, ??m¨¦ v?tisky odpov¨ªdaj¨ª o?ek¨¢van?m rozm¨§r?m.
Na p?vodn¨ªm ozuben¨¦m kole TUFNOL 56 zub? nam¨§?¨ªm vn¨§j?¨ª pr?m¨§r 3,475 palce (88,265 mm). Podle t¨¦to online kalkula?ky p?evodovky by m¨§l b?t vn¨§j?¨ª pr?m¨§r p?evodovky mod 1.5 56T 87 mm.
Ze zv¨§davosti jsem modul trochu zv??il, aby odpov¨ªdal pr?m¨§ru, kter? jsem skute?n¨§ m¨§?il (mod 1.522), a vytiskl jsem ho pro porovn¨¢n¨ª. Nyn¨ª jsou hroty m?ch 3D tisk? p?esn¨§ zarovn¨¢ny s hroty p?vodn¨ªch ozuben?ch kol, ale ko?eny ka?d¨¦ho zubu nesahaj¨ª dostate?n¨§ hluboko. Srovn¨¢n¨ª profilu n¨ª?e
Existuj¨ª jin¨¦ profily zub?, kter¨¦ by byly o n¨§co vy??¨ª ne? "standardn¨ª"?
Mo?n¨¢ jsem o tom p?em??lel, ale kdy? jsem postavil testovac¨ª za?¨ªzen¨ª, pou?il jsem online kalkula?ku, abych z¨ªskal p?esnou st?edovou vzd¨¢lenost mezi dv¨§ma p?evody 1,5 modu 56T a 25T. Vystru?il jsem dva otvory pro mont¨¢?n¨ª h?¨ªdele v t¨¦to vzd¨¢lenosti pomoc¨ª DRO na m¨¦ fr¨¦ze, tak?e jsem si p?im¨§?en¨§ jist?, ?e to bylo p?esn¨¦. B¨§?n¨¦ 25T vybaven¨ª a moje 3D tisky dokonale zapadaly, ale p?vodn¨ª TUFNOL vybaven¨ª se p?itisklo p?¨ªli? bl¨ªzko a nic se neoto?ilo. Musel jsem vyfr¨¦zovat p¨¢r milimetr? ¨²pravy, aby se mohl voln¨§ ot¨¢?et.
Ka?dop¨¢dn¨§ se zd¨¢, ?e na p?vodn¨ªm profilu je n¨§co trochu jin¨¦ho a ?¨¢dn? z parametr?, kter¨¦ m¨¢m k dispozici ve skriptu Fusion 360, mi neumo?¨¾uje replikaci. Mohlo by to b?t v po?¨¢dku, ale myslel jsem, ?e se p?ihl¨¢s¨ªm.
V sobotu 22. b?ezna 2025 ve 2:13 roman fox via <romanfox68= [email protected] > napsal:
O tisku ozuben?ch kol- d¨§kuji za v¨¢? test o tisku ozuben?ch kol pro m¨§ to bylo velmi pou?n¨¦, zejm¨¦na ta ?¨¢st, kde se zuby kola hroutily nebo oh?baly, mysl¨ªm, ?e m?j n¨¢vrh by mohl zlep?it pevnost zub?, probl¨¦m vid¨ªm v tom, ?e zuby nemaj¨ª hlubok¨¦ ko?eny, pouze velmi m¨§lk¨¦, pod¨ªvejte se na vrstvy zub?, jak jsou polo?eny, pokud budete navrhovat nov¨¦ ozuben¨ª a vytvo?¨ªte hlub?¨ª ko?eny kola ve st?edu kola k?¨ª?em kr¨¢?em, zub by byl pevn¨§j?¨ª, p¨ª?u z jin¨¦ho po?¨ªta?e a nev¨ªm, jestli je tady n¨§jak? kresl¨ªc¨ª program, ale pokud ano, zkus¨ªm nakreslit, jak to mysl¨ªm. Tak¨¦ si mysl¨ªm, ?e k vy??¨ª pevnosti pom??e pln¨¢ n¨¢pl¨¾ kola. , s pozdravem Roman---------- P?vodn¨ª e-mail ---------- Od: Ryan Harmon via <ryanjharmon1= [email protected] > Komu: [email protected] Datum: 21. 3. 2025 21:06:41 [Headstock]theemcoViber P?edm¨§t: Re: Re: V?m¨§na
Ahoj Romane,
Ozuben¨¦ kolo m¨¢ tlou??ku 0,400 palce, p?edpokl¨¢d¨¢m, ?e to je jmenovit? rozm¨§r. Vnit?n¨ª vrt¨¢n¨ª je trochu t¨§?k¨¦ zm¨§?it, proto?e bylo deformov¨¢no p?itla?en¨ªm na dr¨¢?ky. Vn¨§j?¨ª rozm¨§r kovov¨¦ho n¨¢boje se zd¨¢ b?t 2,260 palce na ?pi?k¨¢ch dr¨¢?ek. Pr¨¢v¨§ jsem vytiskl verzi ozuben¨¦ho kola s vnit?n¨ªm otvorem 2,230 palce a bez probl¨¦m? to stla?ilo. Pardon, p?evody metrik si budete muset ud¨§lat sami :)
Pl¨¢nuji nahr¨¢t modely cad a soubory stl, a? budu m¨ªt nastaven¨¦ rozm¨§ry, aby si kdokoli mohl odkazovat nebo vytisknout sv¨¦ vlastn¨ª, pokud je tak naklon¨§n.
Ryane
V p¨¢tek 21. b?ezna 2025 ve 14:34 roman fox via <romanfox68= [email protected] > napsal:
Ahoj Ryane, mohl bys mi pros¨ªm ?¨ªct, pros¨ªm, za?krtni rozm¨§r tohoto ozuben¨¦ho kola v milimetrech, pros¨ªm a jak? pr?m¨§r vrt¨¢n¨ª m¨¢? ozuben¨¦ kolo, d¨§kuji Romane ---------- P?vodn¨ª e-mail ----------- Od: Ryan Harmon via <ryanjharmon1= [email protected] > Komu: emcoV.10io Datum: emcoV.105 Datum: 15:01:20 P?edm¨§t: Re: [emcoV10lathe] V?m¨§na ozuben¨¦ho kola v?eten¨ªku V10P
?etl jsem n¨§co o dr¨¢?kov¨¢n¨ª n¨¢boje, ale nebyl jsem si jist?, jak to bude vypadat. Pr¨¢v¨§ jsem vy?el do gar¨¢?e a vyndal ho, tady je pro p?¨ªpad, ?e by to n¨§koho n¨§kdy zaj¨ªmalo?
M¨¢ kousek rtu pod dr¨¢?kou, kter¨¢ byla napln¨§na lepidlem, tady je p?edt¨ªm, ne? jsem to sloupnul?
Ka?dop¨¢dn¨§ tyto mal¨¦ dr¨¢?ky by se m¨§ly zakousnout do plastu, kdy? na n¨§j budu tla?it, a mysl¨ªm, ?e dr?¨ª docela dob?e. Zd¨¢ se, ?e lepidlo slou?¨ª sp¨ª?e k tomu, aby se nest¨¢hlo, a pravd¨§podobn¨§ nemus¨ª b?t p?¨ªli? siln¨¦?
hmm.. mo?n¨¢ se m?l¨ªm ohledn¨§ nylonu... z n¨§jak¨¦ho d?vodu jsem ho m¨§l v hlav¨§ v kategorii HDPE a dal?¨ªch plast? s n¨ªzkou povrchovou energi¨ª, ale google ?¨ªk¨¢, ?e se m?l¨ªm, omlouv¨¢m se :(
Pozdravy
Vedran
Dne 21. b?ezna 2025 ve 13:44 Ryan Harmon p?es <ryanjharmon1= [email protected] > napsal:
D¨ªky! R¨¢d bych o tom nato?il video, ale nem¨¢m ?¨¢dn¨¦ zku?enosti s ¨²pravami, tak?e krok za krokem.
Vlastn¨§ jsem to o nylonu a lepidle nev¨§d¨§l, d¨ªky za upozorn¨§n¨ª.?
Nejsem si ani jist?, jak moc je to pot?eba, ale narazil jsem na toho chlapa, kter? na ebay prod¨¢v¨¢ ti?t¨§n¨¢ ozuben¨¢ kola pro ml?ny FB-2:
Doporu?uje pou?¨ªt housenku CA lepidla p?ed nalisov¨¢n¨ªm ozuben¨¦ho kola a poznamen¨¢v¨¢, ?e to nen¨ª tolik jako zalisov¨¢n¨ª.
<image.png>
<image.png>
Nedok¨¢?u si p?edstavit, ?e by zde CA poskytovala spoustu s¨ªly, ale tenhle chlap to doporu?uje a tvrd¨ª, ?e m¨§l ¨²sp¨§ch u spousty lid¨ª.
Mo?n¨¢ by trochu epoxidu fungovalo l¨¦pe pro nylon?
V p¨¢tek 21. b?ezna 2025 v 3:53 Vedran p?es <vedran.groups= [email protected] > napsal:
To je fenomen¨¢ln¨ª, zve?ejn¨§n¨ª na youtube nebo printables nebo n¨§jak¨¦m takov¨¦m m¨ªst¨§ by bylo docela u?ite?n¨¦ pro komunitu jako celek.
Pokud jde o lepen¨ª, pamatujte, ?e Nylon se na v¨§t?inu lepidel nelep¨ª
Pozdravy
Vedran
Dne 21. b?ezna 2025 ve 2:31 Ryan Harmon p?es <ryanjharmon1= [email protected] > napsal:
?as na aktualizaci, mysl¨ªm, ?e jsem ud¨§lal dobr? pokrok a mo?n¨¢ jsem vybral sv?j kone?n? materi¨¢l.
Pro sv¨¦ testov¨¢n¨ª jsem v gar¨¢?i sestavil ze ?rotu malou soupravu a ozuben¨¦ kolo mod 1.5, kter¨¦ jsem si objednal z Amazonu. ?eln¨ª ozuben¨¦ kolo m¨¢ na sob¨§ p?ipevn¨§nou hlin¨ªkovou ty? jako p¨¢ku a m??e se voln¨§ ot¨¢?et, zat¨ªmco ozuben¨¦ kolo Emco nebo 3D ti?t¨§n¨¦ ozuben¨¦ kolo je p?ipevn¨§no na m¨ªst¨§. Na konci hlin¨ªkov¨¦ ty?e m¨¢m kbel¨ªk, do kter¨¦ho p?id¨¢v¨¢m z¨¢va?¨ª, a? nakonec praskne zub.
Zde je nastaven¨ª testuj¨ªc¨ª p?vodn¨ª p?evody
<IMG_6237.jpg>
Zde je n¨¢vod, jak to vypad¨¢ u 3D ti?t¨§n?ch verz¨ª
<IMG_6243.jpg>
Mo?n¨¢ to nen¨ª nejv¨§de?t¨§j?¨ª, nev¨§?il bych absolutn¨ªm ?¨ªsl?m, kter¨¦ dost¨¢v¨¢m, ale mysl¨ªm, ?e pro (relativn¨§) konzistentn¨ª srovn¨¢n¨ª to d¨§l¨¢ svou pr¨¢ci dob?e. K nalo?en¨ª pou?¨ªv¨¢m ?inkov¨¦ z¨¢va?¨ª, m¨¢m od 1,25 lb (0,5 kg) do 10 lb (4,5 kg). Z¨¢va?¨ª jsem v podstat¨§ zvy?oval v kroc¨ªch po 1,25 lb, co? obn¨¢?¨ª spoustu v?m¨§ny mal?ch tal¨ª?? za t¨§??¨ª. Vzhledem k tomu, ?e to pravd¨§podobn¨§ p?in¨¢?¨ª ur?itou ¨²navu, jakmile z¨ªsk¨¢m po?¨¢te?n¨ª zlomov¨¦ ?¨ªslo, zopakuji test za?¨ªnaj¨ªc¨ª t¨§sn¨§ pod bodem zlomu a pouze p?id¨¢m dal?¨ª v¨¢hu. To trvale poskytuje m¨ªrn¨§ vy??¨ª v?sledky.
Pro za?¨¢tek byl tufnol, jak n¨¢zev napov¨ªd¨¢, docela tvrd?. Opravdu m¨§ p?ekvapilo, jakou silou bylo zapot?eb¨ª k rozbit¨ª, nakonec jsem nalo?il 52,5 lb (23,8 kg) z¨¢va?¨ª, ne? prasklo. P?est¨¢vka byla docela n¨¢siln¨¢, proto?e zuby se velmi n¨¢hle utrhly, p?edt¨ªm se nedalo. Kdy? jsem znovu provedl test bez ¨²navy, dostal se na 56,25 lb (25,5 kg).
<image.png>
Sv¨¦ 3D ti?t¨§n¨¦ testy jsem za?al s n¨§jak?m PLA, proto?e jich m¨¢m dost a mohl bych vy?e?it chyby, ne? p?ejdu k dal?¨ªm materi¨¢l?m. Prvn¨ª test odhalil velmi kritick? kus ozuben?ch kol pro 3D tisk, co? jsem se dozv¨§d¨§l z jednoho z vide¨ª na youtube, kter¨¦ jsem sledoval p?i testech ozuben?ch kol. V?choz¨ª nastaven¨ª v??ezu um¨ªst¨ª na tisk dv¨§ obvodov¨¦ st¨§ny a zbytek vypln¨ª. N¨ª?e jsem zv?raznil n¨§kter¨¦ st¨§ny ?erven¨§, abyste vid¨§li, co t¨ªm mysl¨ªm. Moje PLA se 100% v?pln¨ª, ale pouze dv¨§ma obvodov?mi st¨§nami, selhala na 10 lb (4,5 kg). V tuto chv¨ªli jsem se ob¨¢val, ?e cel¨¢ v¨§c bude zbyte?n¨¢, pokud by tato ozuben¨¢ kola byla jen mal?m zlomkem s¨ªly tufnolu, mohl by se p?i norm¨¢ln¨ªm pou?¨ªv¨¢n¨ª prost¨§ zlomit a vr¨¢tit m¨§ zp¨¢tky tam, kde jsem za?al.
<image.png>
Na?t¨§st¨ª dotisk s p¨§ti st¨§nami poskytl mnohem lep?¨ª v?sledky, p?i?em? PLA dosahoval t¨¦m¨§? 25 lb (11,3 kg)
<image.png>
Nakonec m?j nejlep?¨ª v?sledek p?i?el s typem nylonu, kter? udr?el a? 52,5 lb (23,8 kg), tak?e se jen vyhnul maximu, kter¨¦ jsem byl schopen nalo?it na p?vodn¨ª p?evody.
<image.png>
M?j polykarbon¨¢t, z jak¨¦hokoli d?vodu, prost¨§ nefungoval tak dob?e, jak jsem doufal. D?sledn¨§ jsem m¨§l jen kolem 35 lb, tak?e jsem se vyh?bal origin¨¢l?m. Tak¨¦ to skon?ilo jako mnohem v¨§t?¨ª bolest p?i tisku, tak?e si mysl¨ªm, ?e jsem se rozhodl pro nylon.
Zde je skute?n¨¢ zna?ka:
Sn¨ªmky obrazovky pro budouc¨ª ref
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>
Je zde spousta marketingov?ch materi¨¢l?, ale alespo¨¾ d¨ªky tvrzen¨ªm to zn¨ª perfektn¨§ pro danou aplikaci a zd¨¢lo se, ?e obstoj¨ª v testu.
Ka?dop¨¢dn¨§ dal?¨ªm krokem je skute?n¨§ vylisovat star¨¦ ozuben¨¦ kolo z n¨¢boje a toto p?itisknout/p?ilepit. Chci znovu spustit test s vyti?t¨§n?m ozuben?m kolem na skute?n¨¦m n¨¢boji, jen abych se ujistil, ?e to z?stane na m¨ªst¨§, a uvid¨ªm, zda dostanu stejn¨¢ ?¨ªsla pevnosti, proto?e toto nastaven¨ª je trochu jin¨¦ ne? to, co jsem testoval p?edt¨ªm.
M¨§l bych na to m¨ªt o v¨ªkendu trochu ?asu, a pokud v?e p?jde dob?e, mo?n¨¢ budu m¨ªt zase jen b¨§?¨ªc¨ª soustruh ?
V pond¨§l¨ª 17. b?ezna 2025 ve 12:50 JM Rall p?es < = [email protected] > napsal:
Vypad¨¢ to, ?e emcoshop v Rakousku ?as od ?asu inzeroval ozuben¨¢ kola vyroben¨¢ v mal?ch s¨¦ri¨ªch. Jakmile p?id¨¢te n¨¢klady na dopravu, bude pravd¨§podobn¨§ severn¨§ od 400 USD.
Pokud byste ?li do toho a vytvo?ili p¨¢r, pravd¨§podobn¨§ byste mohli n¨§jak¨¦ prodat na EBay / Facebook Marketplace
?
?
<inline.0.part>
Re: can I drill the hole in the carriage for the cross slide lead screw hole through?
D¨§kuji, ?e ses ke mn¨§ vr¨¢til. Myslel jsem, ?e jeden nebo druh? z v¨¢s odpov¨ª :). Jsem v t¨¦to skupin¨§ roky a velmi si v¨¢?¨ªm ve?ker¨¦ va?¨ª moudrosti a pomoci, kterou jste sd¨ªleli s ostatn¨ªmi a kterou jsem za ta l¨¦ta v tichosti nasb¨ªral.??
P?ed n¨§kolika lety jsem navrhl a postavil CNC retrofit na m¨¦m V-10 pomoc¨ª krokov?ch motor? a MAXNC kontrol¨¦ru (dlouho zanikl¨¢ CNC spole?nost b¨§?¨ªc¨ª na MS-DOS...). Tento syst¨¦m jsem provozoval roky a byla to jedna z nejlep?¨ªch v¨§c¨ª, kter¨¦ jsem na sv¨¦m soustruhu ud¨§lal. Ovlada? n¨¢sledn¨§ odum?el a m¨¢m te? asi 6" dlouh? n¨¢stavec z p?edn¨ª ?¨¢sti soustruhu, kter? se mi zd¨¢, ?e v?dy p?ek¨¢?¨ª. Na zadn¨ª stran¨§ krokov¨¦ho ped¨¢lu m¨¢m ru?n¨ª kole?ko pro ru?n¨ª ovl¨¢d¨¢n¨ª motoru, dokud nezapoj¨ªm a zprovozn¨ªm sv?j nov? CNC ovlada?. M¨¢m tak¨¦ velkou v?li ve vod¨ªc¨ªm ?roubu s k?¨ª?ov?m posuvem, tak?e m¨§ to p?ivedlo k my?lence...??
Napadlo m¨§ vym¨§nit vodic¨ª ?roub za nov? a vod¨ªc¨ª matici za nov? ?roub. zadn¨ª stranu bych pak mohl vyt¨¢hnout zep?edu a nasadit matici na k?¨ª?ov¨¦ san¨§ ne? do voz¨ªku Jedin¨¢ nev?hoda je, ?e konec ?roubu bude tr?et vep?edu v?dy ve stejn¨¦ vzd¨¢lenosti (pokud nep?id¨¢m spojku s dr¨¢?kou a nech¨¢m vod¨ªc¨ª ?roub posouvat dr¨¢?kou tam a zp¨§t, ale nemysl¨ªm si, ?e bych cht¨§l j¨ªt na takovou ¨²rove¨¾ slo?itosti...).
?
P?vodn¨§ m¨§ p?im¨§lo p?em??let touto cestou, ?e jsem cht¨§l nasadit del?¨ª vodic¨ª ?roub, abych mohl vysunout k?¨ª?ov? posuv d¨¢le, abych mohl z¨ªskat dostate?nou v?li pod 8" pr?m¨§rem, kterou pot?ebuji oto?it... Tento n¨¢pad u? nefunguje, ale p?esunut¨ª motoru na zadn¨ª stranu m¨¢m st¨¢le na mysli...
Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.
Further update - I found a different gear generator add in for fusion 360. This one includes a "Profile shifting coef".
This may be exactly what I need. It seems like a profile shift of 0.4 (whatever the unit is) puts me almost exactly at the dimensions I'm measuring from the original.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 9:36?AM Ryan Harmon via <ryanjharmon1=[email protected]> wrote:
Question for you all who maybe know more about gears than I do.
When I first started printing these replacements, I noticed the tips of the original gears stuck out just a bit further than my 3d printed versions. This doesn't seem to be shrinkage with the 3d print or anything, my prints are matching the expected dimensions.
On the original TUFNOL 56 tooth gear, I measure an outside diameter of 3.475 in (88.265 mm). According to this online gear calculator, the OD of a mod 1.5 56T gear should be 87 mm.
Out of curiosity, I upped the module a bit to match the diameter I was actually measuring (mod 1.522) and printed that to compare. Now the tips of my 3d prints line up exactly with the tips of the original gears, but the roots of each tooth do not go deep enough. Profile comparison below
Are there other tooth profiles that would be slightly taller than "standard"?
I might be overthinking this, but when I built the test rig, I used an online calculator to get the exact center distance between two mod 1.5 gears of 56T and 25T. I reamed two holes for the mounting shafts at this distance using the DRO on my mill so I'm reasonably confident it was precise. The off the shelf 25T gear and my 3D prints meshed perfectly, but the original TUFNOL gear snugged in way too close and nothing would turn. I had to mill out a few millimeters of adjustment to get it to turn freely.
Anyway, it seems like there is something a bit different about the original profile, and none of the parameters I have available in the Fusion 360 script allow me to replicate. Might be fine as is, but I figured I would check in.
On Sat, Mar 22, 2025 at 2:13?AM roman fox via <romanfox68=[email protected]> wrote:
About printing gears- thank you for your test about printing gear for me it was very instructive, especially the part where the teeth of the wheel were collapsing or bending, I think that my design could improve the strength of the teeth, the problem I see is that the teeth do not have deep roots, only very shallow ones, look at the layers of teeth how they are laid, if you are going to design a new wheel, create deeper roots of the teeth in the center of the wheel and if the layers were applied in a crisscross pattern, the tooth would be stronger, I am writing from another computer and I do not know if there is a drawing program here, but if so, I will try to draw how I mean it. I also think that full wheel filling will help with higher strength. , my regards Roman---------- P?vodn¨ª e-mail ---------- Od: Ryan Harmon via <ryanjharmon1=[email protected]> Komu: [email protected] Datum: 21. 3. 2025 21:06:41 P?edm¨§t: Re: [emcoV10lathe] V10P Headstock Fiber Gear Replacement
Hey Roman,
The gear is 0.400 inches thick, I expect that is the nominal dimension. The inner bore is a bit hard to measure because it's been deformed from being pressed onto the splines. The outer dimension of the metal hub seems to be 2.260 inches at the tips of the splines. I just printed a version of the gear with an inner bore of 2.230 inches and it pressed on no problem. Sorry, you'll have to do the metric conversions yourself :)
I plan on uploading cad models and stl files when I have my dimensions set so anyone can reference or print their own if they are so inclined.
Ryan
On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 2:34?PM roman fox via <romanfox68=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Ryan ,could you tell me please ticknes dimension of this gear in milimeters please and what bore diameter has you gear ,thank you Roman ---------- P?vodn¨ª e-mail ---------- Od: Ryan Harmon via <ryanjharmon1=[email protected]> Komu: [email protected] Datum: 21. 3. 2025 15:01:20 P?edm¨§t: Re: [emcoV10lathe] V10P Headstock Fiber Gear Replacement
I had read something about the hub being splined, but I wasn¡¯t sure what that was going to look like. I just went out to the garage and popped it off, here it is in case anyone has ever wondered?
It¡¯s got a bit of a lip under the spline that was filled with glue, here¡¯s before I peeled it off?
Anyways, these little splines should bite into the plastic as I press it on and I would think hold pretty well. Seems like the glue is more for keeping it from backing off and probably doesn¡¯t need to be too strong?
On Mar 21, 2025, at 8:33?AM, Vedran via <vedran.groups=[email protected]> wrote:
?
hmm.. I might be wrong there about nylon... for some reason I had it in the HDPE and other low surface energy plastics category in my mind, but google says I'm wrong, sorry :(
Regards
Vedran
On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 1:44?PM Ryan Harmon via <ryanjharmon1=[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks! I would love to do a video on this, but I have no editing experience, so one step at a time.
I actually didn't know that about nylon and glue, thanks for the heads up.?
I'm not even sure how much it is needed, but I came across this guy selling printed gears for FB-2 mills on ebay:
He recommends using a bead of CA glue before pressing on the gear and notes it is not as much as a press fit.
<image.png>
<image.png>
I can't imagine CA is providing a ton of strength here, but this guy is recommending it and claims to have had success with a bunch of people.
Maybe a bit of epoxy would work better for the nylon?
On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 3:53?AM Vedran via <vedran.groups=[email protected]> wrote:
This is phenomenal, publishing this on youtube or printables or some such place would be quite useful to the community at large.
Regards glueing, remember that Nylon won't stick to most glues
Regards
Vedran
On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 2:31?AM Ryan Harmon via <ryanjharmon1=[email protected]> wrote:
Time for an update, I think I've made some good progress and maybe selected my final material.
For my testing, I cobbled together a little rig out of scrap in the garage and a mod 1.5 spur gear I ordered from Amazon. The spur gear has a bar of aluminum pinned to it as a lever and can rotate freely, while the Emco gear or 3D printed gear is pinned in place. I have a bucket on the end of the aluminum bar that I add weights to until a tooth finally snaps.
Here's the setup testing the original gears
<IMG_6237.jpg>
Here's what it looks like for the 3D printed versions
<IMG_6243.jpg>
It's maybe not the most scientific, I wouldn't trust the absolute numbers I'm getting, but I think for a (relatively) consistent comparison, it does the job just fine. I'm using barbell weights to load it up, I have ones as small as 1.25 lbs (.5 kg) up to 10 lbs (4.5 kg). I basically stepped up the weights in increments of 1.25 lbs, which involves a lot of switching out small plates for heavier ones. Since this probably introduces some fatigue, once I've got an initial breaking number, I'll rerun the test starting just below the break point and only add more weight. This has consistently given slightly higher results.
For starters the tufnol was, as the name suggests, quite tough. It really surprised me how much force it took to break, I ended up loading 52.5 lbs (23.8 kg) of weight before it snapped. The break was quite violent as the teeth snapped off very suddenly, no give before that. When I reran the test without any fatigue it got up to 56.25 lbs (25.5 kg).
<image.png>
I started my 3D printed tests with some PLA, as I have plenty and I could work out the kinks before moving on to the other materials. The first test revealed a very critical piece of 3D printing gears, which I learned from one of the youtube videos I watched on the gear tests. The default slicer settings put two perimeter walls on your print, and does infill for the rest. I've highlighted some of the walls in red below so you can see what I mean. My PLA, with 100% infill but just two perimeter walls, failed at 10 lbs (4.5 kg). At this point I was worried the whole thing was going to be pointless, if these gears were just a small fraction of the strength of tufnol it might just break during normal use and put me right back to where I started.
<image.png>
Luckily, reprinting with five walls, gave much better results, with PLA standing up to almost 25 lbs (11.3 kg)
<image.png>
Ultimately, my best result came from a type of nylon, which held up to 52.5 lbs (23.8 kg) putting it just shy of the max I was able to load on the original gears.
<image.png>
My polycarbonate, for whatever reason, just did not perform as well as I hoped. I consistently only got around 35 lbs, well shy of the originals. It also ended up being much more of a pain to print, so I think I've made my decision to go with nylon.
Here is the actual brand:
Screenshots for future ref
<image.png>
<image.png>
<image.png>
A lot of marketing material here, but at least the claims make it sound perfect for the application at hand, and it seemed to stand up to the test.
Anyway, next step is to actually press the old gear off the hub and press/glue this one on. I want to rerun the test with the printed gear on the actual hub, just to make sure it's going to stay put and see if I get the same strength numbers since this setup is a bit different than what I was testing before.
I should have some time to do that this weekend, and if all goes well I might just have a running lathe again ?
On Mon, Mar 17, 2025 at 12:50?PM JM Rall via <=[email protected]> wrote:
Look like emcoshop in Austria advertised the gears made in small batches from time to time. Once you add shipping cost would probably be North of? $400 .
If you went ahead and made a couple You would probably be able to sell some on EBay / Facebook Marketplace
Jay
Sierra Tunafish Monkeymind
Morepork