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Re: Ps, Re: [emcoV10lathe] vfd load reactor suggestions?


 

Please note this explanation works on concept level, and is not always what is actually happening.

VFD itself doesn't produce voltage spikes, it turns the power fully on and fully off very quickly and varies how long it's on each cycle (square wave in the picture below). Effective voltage is an integral of that (sine wave in the picture below). Think about it like blipping a motor on a big wheel bandsaw a few times to get it up to speed slowly. It has a lot of inertia and each time you blip the motor on you add energy to the system.

pwm-for-different-output-frequencies.png

VFD on-off output is then smoothed by the winding which resists current change, effectively making a low pass current filter - higher frequency is blocked and lower one is allowed through.
unnamed.jpg

When you switch the power off on the winding (or any inductor) it still opposes any current change and it starts dumping stored magnetic energy to keep the current going, but if you just disconnected the power the current has nowhere to go. This results in a voltage rise (spike) over the winding and this voltage can be significantly larger then what was originally supplied by the VFD. This is similar to the water hammer that occurs when you close off the tap quickly. Spikes are very short and they don't have a whole lot of energy, but you get one each time the VFD switches, which is usually 4-20 thousand times a second (4-20Hz). Maximum voltage the spike will hit depends on the speed the VFD transistor switches off. You could make the transistor turn off slower, but that results in heat (in the transistor) and overall inefficiency which is not good.
a3.jpg
VFDs (good ones at least) include some sort of a freewheeling diode variant that allows the inductor current to keep flowing after the power is switched off. Simplest way is to include a diode in parallel to the inductor so when power is switched off, current can flow the diode instead of through the VFD and "freewheel" between the winding and the diode (VFDs don't actually use diodes for this, but the principle is the same). Bicycle analogy works for this, bad idea circuit is like a fixie - if you try to stop pedalling, the energy in the system will still force your legs up and down. A regular freewheeling bike will allow for the pedals to remain stationary even when the bike is still moving.
image.png

So far so good, but each wire is an inductor, capacitor and resistor in one, so there are higher order effects because of that and other reasons. For instance, diode needs a bit od time to start conducting. It means it won't get the first (and the worst) of the voltage spike.

When you add filters to the motor, you're either slowing down the switching speed, thus making the spikes smaller or trying to arrest the voltage spikes once they occur (or both).?


Regards

Vedran


On Sun, Mar 23, 2025 at 12:13?AM Sierra Tunafish Monkeymind via <barkingcarpet=[email protected]> wrote:

Ok, so it is there to smoothe it out, but, what of the voltage spikes/wave form whatevers(I¡¯m outta my apples n oranges here) but, don¡¯t the vfd¡¯s output voltage spikes?
Are the chokes set or can so set so that it does not go above 240 volts?
Yes, I¡¯m confused by it

On Mar 22, 2025, at 3:00?PM, cwlathes via <carvelw=[email protected]> wrote:

?

Hi Sierra

The choke / reactor is there in series to smooth out the current going through it , so the voltage rating is just an insulation issue

So the voltage rating must be equal to or higher than whatever voltage your VFD is pushing through it

Am I making any sense ?

Carvel

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sierra Tunafish Monkeymind
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 10:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [emcoV10lathe] vfd load reactor suggestions?

?

Thank Ye Carvel. I get confused with the voltage ratings on the ones I see listed at 4 and 600v and am unsure if I need something specific for 240v, or if they are rated for higher but limit it via some other parameters or settings?



On Mar 22, 2025, at 1:11?PM, cwlathes via <carvelw=[email protected]> wrote:

?

Hi Sierra

The chokes / reactors will be heavy , even smaller one
? , so you want something not too far away? . .?

Suggest do a search along the lines of ¡° VFD load reactor I kW ¡° and see

I notice lots of stuff , new and used, on our well known auction site ?

Regards,

Carvel

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sierra Tunafish Monkeymind
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2025 6:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [emcoV10lathe] vfd load reactor suggestions?

?

Can anyone point me towards an "inexpensive" load reactor/filter which I can put between my vfd and the older emco motor? The motor is a 3ph 220v .81KW.

?

Sierra

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