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CAN LIN the misery
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wn4isx
OK upfront I'm an analog guy. I don't hate digital, far from it, but I prefer to solve my design problems with analog solutions. I have more computers then common sense, I can and do write code, bad code, overly complex code, but still code that works. I program in Ada [ick] or GW-Basic and compile it with a 198? MS compiler. I've avoided Raspberry, Ardunio, PIC, PIC-AXE etc because I have enough other problems. ? Although I did use some premade code to burn PICs to produce 60Hz, 440Hz, 1PPs real time and sidereal, and other useful frequencies from a 10MHz GPS disciplined oscillator. [I'd love to have premade PIC code for "D" and "C".] I understand RS-232 in and out, Ethernet from AX.25 (ham packet radio.) ? However I'm only aware of in car data networks because I had to deal with one. I learned enough about CAN to know I needed specialized, expensive, test gear to begin to unravel the CAN problems in our Volvo so I lobotomized it by replacing most functions with local relay control. ? I can look at the data streams with an oscilloscope but it might as well be High Martian. ? Until Goey's request for the pin out of a radio, I'd not looked into CAN since lobotomizing our Volvo. ? I was amazed to learn our Echo didn't have CAN. I assumed it did and prayed it would never give trouble. [Sometimes you luck out!] Though the current sensor in the battery lead creates some issues I'd prefer to avoid. ? Today I learned there is also a simpler car data network, LIN, that GM [and others] uses for controlling the radio et al in some models. ? Most cars made after 2003 will have CAN and, by federal law, all new cars and light trucks made after 2008 sold in the US must have CAN. ? I suggest anyone interested in CAN and LIN start with Wiki then dig as deep as they need. ? CAN/LIN will probably be part of your future. ? We were so "lucky" with our Volvo as they were an early adopter of CAN. ? I've learned some manufacturers require their "in car entertainment systems" receive authorization from the main computer before they will turn on. [Such joy.] ? I see how a cousin of my wife makes a comfortable living by rebuilding pre 1990 cars, his wife does the detail work (she can even replace the headliner!!!!). I can see why any sane person would want a pre-CAN car because it requires specialized equipment and knowledge to trouble shoot them. Imagine all the wiring interconnects in a modern car....now imagine trouble shooting them. ? CAN is being used for all sorts of non-automotive applications, the list is growing and bewildering. ? I suspect serious electronic hobbyists will have to deal with CAN/LIN sooner then later. ? This makes it look sooo simple... https://www.diagnosistips.com/automotiveacademy/can-bus/ ? That log cabin on 20 acres is looking more attractive every day....... |
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I am NOT opposed to CAN, LIN, single ended or differential serial, etc. It's just a progression of technology.
Did you know there are CAN lightbulbs? Yup. No switches. Switching element is in emitter itself. Sounds like a lot of overkill. But is it? Common database to headlights. Turn lights on, turn lights off. Functions that seem to be easier with a switch or relay. Bulb can report when emitter is burned out. That requires sense leads between bulb circuit and an ecu somewhere, either detecting voltage drop, current flow, or passing a sense current. At least 1 more wire needed. 3 wires needed now. I foresee bulbs being able to report degradation, color temperature, brightness (computed) functionality if not already there. But, back to basics. For Headlights, 2 switches needed (on/off local, on/off high, perhaps with interlock). Parking / Marker lights. Another switch. Turn signals need a switch. Brake lights need a switch, as do dome lights, fog lights, bed / trunk lights. 8 switches, and associated wiring, to provide basic lighting control. Or 1 database. What I found most irritating, at least on my Yukon, is inability to interact with databus. GM has held their secrets closely compared to Ford. You can't interface with GM without a Tech2 at a minimum. Ford needs a HSCAN / MSCAN adapter and 3rd party software (Forscan). Both inexpensive. Mopar provides upfitter CAN interface in several of their vehicles that is available direct or buffered. Hmm, maybe that would be Mercedes as I am referring to Sprinter vans made / badged by Mercedes, Dodge, and Freightliner. And better, their requirements to interface, what shouldn't be touched, etc are published. Did you know there are CAN switches? Yup. Press a switch, and datastream is generated addressing intended device or sending command / request to centralized controller. Similar with relays. Member of my extended family had an old Mercedes sedan. 5 cylinder diesel. Windows, door locks were not digital. They weren't even electric, but still powered. How? Vacuum. Vacuum operated door locks and windows. Very thankful not to have to maintain THAT. If tools were more common to layperson (being PC there ;) ), I think there would be a much difference attitude towards CAN technology and derivatives as well as predecessors. Perhaps I am unique. I have the idea that if I own something, I should have complete control over it. My phones are rooted. I use Linux (not very well). My F150 had several features added, others turned off because I desired. Heck, I am learning about IoT zigbee and other home mesh networks in relation to doir locks, cameras, lighting control. Starting to lesve behind X10 ( heavily invested). Bought Yukon because can do same thing albeit with Tech2. Except that mine was 3 months too new, and Tech2 is very limited. Now would have to pay $49/3 days subscription. Didn't know about CAN requirement. Makes sense as vehicles now have Blackbox ability and cameras for traffic interaction. Time marches on. ~SD |
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On Sunday 15 December 2024 07:19:52 pm wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
OK upfront I'm an analog guy. I don't hate digital, far from it, but I prefer to solve my design problems with analog solutions. I have more computers then common sense, I can and do write code, bad code, overly complex code, but still code that works. I program in Ada [ick]Ditto on the ick. :-) or GW-Basic and compile it with a 198? MS compiler. I've avoided Raspberry, Ardunio, PIC, PIC-AXE etc because I have enough other problems.I too avoided a lot of that stuff, and thought about things like the z80 and 6502, which I have bunches of. But having to lash up several chips and burn an EPROM kind of put me off of doing anything with those parts. I did get into arduino not all that long ago (the name put me off for some reason) and they can be a lot of fun. Got a Pi4 not too long ago, a "Canakit" that came with an enclosure, touch screen (too damn small at around 4"), real keyboard and mouse. I'm thinking that if I can get the right HDMI cable I can use that thing to view YT videos on the TV here. Got some ESP8266 and ESP32 modules, too, and the capability to program them is included now in my arduino IDE. That's a dual-core processor with built-in bluetooth and wifi, a very capable little board, and for not very much money at all. I bought five of them to play with. Although I did use some premade code to burn PICs to produce 60Hz, 440Hz, 1PPs real time and sidereal, and other useful frequencies from a 10MHz GPS disciplined oscillator. [I'd love to have premade PIC code for "D" and "C".]I see PIC stuff used a lot in Nuts&Volts articles, but have avoided them for the most part because I'd need to buy some specialized stuff to be able to deal with them, and it's one mfr. I understand RS-232 in and out, Ethernet from AX.25 (ham packet radio.)Heh. As do I, and there's a skill that I don't remember the last time I used it. Weird handshaking configurations, null modem cables, and all that fun stuff. However I'm only aware of in car data networks because I had to deal with one. I learned enough about CAN to know I needed specialized, expensive, test gear to begin to unravel the CAN problems in our Volvo so I lobotomized it by replacing most functions with local relay control.I suspect that equipment is probably more widely available now than it used to be, and probably a whole heck of a lot cheaper. Not that I'm inclined to go there... Although I do have this one gizmo that might prove useful. It calls itself a "logic analyzer" and has a 10-pin header on one side, up to 8 channels of input, a clock line, and a ground connection. USB on the other side to connect it to your computer, where a program called "pulseview" will show you what's going on. You can select one out of a whole mes of different protocols, and it decodes things for you I think I paid under $10 for the thing. Looking, yeah, CAN is in there along with about 15 other protocols. Check out sigrok.org for more info on this. I can look at the data streams with an oscilloscope but it might as well be High Martian.Right. Until Goey's request for the pin out of a radio, I'd not looked into CAN since lobotomizing our Volvo.Looking at that document linked in here recently, I was surprised at how over-complicated that stuff had been getting. And it surprises me that it works as well as it does. We were talking about getting another vehicle not too long ago, and my inclination is to move towards something older that would have a whole lot less of this gadgetry in it. We haven't moved forward with that and I'm not sure when we will, at this point. It's easier to just keep things going with what we've got. I was amazed to learn our Echo didn't have CAN. I assumed it did and prayed it would never give trouble. [Sometimes you luck out!] Though the current sensor in the battery lead creates some issues I'd prefer to avoid.Sensor in the battery lead? What's that all about? What year is that vehicle? Today I learned there is also a simpler car data network, LIN, that GM [and others] uses for controlling the radio et al in some models.By federal law? I wonder what that's all about. I know that after a certain point (I think it's 2016 and later) backup cameras are mandatory. Hell, I don't see a need for one, I can turn around and look if I have to. I suggest anyone interested in CAN and LIN start with Wiki then dig as deep as they need.Not if I can help it! We were so "lucky" with our Volvo as they were an early adopter of CAN.Oh, there's lots of crazy stuff going on in cars these days. I heard a while back that replacing any one of a number of different modules, say with one from a junkyard, will result in the car's odometer reading being taken from whichever module has the highest number! And you can't do anything about it. I guess that's to incentivize buying a new module from a dealer, but really! I see how a cousin of my wife makes a comfortable living by rebuilding pre 1990 cars, his wife does the detail work (she can even replace the headliner!!!!). I can see why any sane person would want a pre-CAN car because it requires specialized equipment and knowledge to trouble shoot them. Imagine all the wiring interconnects in a modern car....now imagine trouble shooting them.That document that was linked in here details a lot of that stuff. It's crazy. CAN is being used for all sorts of non-automotive applications, the list is growing and bewildering.I don't know about that. I've given a lot of thought about what level of tech I'm comfortable with. Lots of people seem to think that you have to deal with surface-mount parts, ferinstance. "Oh, it's not that big of a deal once you get used to handlng those teeny little parts..." Nope, I ain't going there. Through-hole is where it's at as far as I'm concerned, and if I need the functionality of something that's only available in surface mount, I'll buy a little module that'll give me pins to connect to... This makes it look sooo simple...Not bad. Though I see two issues with this stuff. One is that you really do need the right documentation for the vehicle in question. It took me a while, but I eventually got a hold of a shop manual for our 2013 Dodge Journey. That pdf is over 10,000 pages! I've looked at it some but haven't really gotten too far with it. The other thing is where he says to disconnect the battery. Now that used to be a fairly trivial thing to do, but in this vehicle you don't see the battery under the hood. No, to get at it you need to remove the driver's side front wheel and then remove an access panel! The battery did go bad in there and that was one of those "pay somebody else to deal with it" deals. I suppose that the battery could be disconnected by undoing one of the cables under the hood, but I haven't hit the part of the manual that details which one yet. That log cabin on 20 acres is looking more attractive every day.......Heh. I hear ya! But we're pretty far out in the boonies already, water from a well and heating with a wood stove and such. I really don't think I'd care to go a whole lot further down that path... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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On Monday 16 December 2024 10:05:14 am SheldonD via groups.io wrote:
I am NOT opposed to CAN, LIN, single ended or differential serial, etc. It's just a progression of technology.Yeah, and it keeps on progressing, at an ever-accelerating pace... Did you know there are CAN lightbulbs?No, I didn't know that. Yup. No switches. Switching element is in emitter itself. Sounds like a lot of overkill.Yeah it does. But is it? Common database to headlights. Turn lights on, turn lights off. Functions that seem to be easier with a switch or relay. Bulb can report when emitter is burned out. That requires sense leads between bulb circuit and an ecu somewhere, either detecting voltage drop, current flow, or passing a sense current. At least 1 more wire needed. 3 wires needed now.And a lot of the way things are going seems to involve getting rid of as many wires as possible. Because we can do digital stuff! :-) I did a pretty good job of burning out the wiring harness in a 1970 Dodge Dart, and boy was that fun to deal with. We got a mostly good harness from a junkyard (try finding that these days for something of that vintage) and then had to unwrap several miles of electrical tape from both of them and combine them to make one good harness. Both under the hood and under the dash. I foresee bulbs being able to report degradation, color temperature, brightness (computed) functionality if not already there.Then there's the degradation of that stupid choice of plastic that they're using for headlight assemblies these days. I've already had to deal with that more than once. But, back to basics. For Headlights, 2 switches needed (on/off local, on/off high, perhaps with interlock). Parking / Marker lights. Another switch. Turn signals need a switch. Brake lights need a switch, as do dome lights, fog lights, bed / trunk lights.Data bus? What I found most irritating, at least on my Yukon, is inability to interact with databus. GM has held their secrets closely compared to Ford. You can't interface with GM without a Tech2 at a minimum. Ford needs a HSCAN / MSCAN adapter and 3rd party software (Forscan). Both inexpensive. Mopar provides upfitter CAN interface in several of their vehicles that is available direct or buffered. Hmm, maybe that would be Mercedes as I am referring to Sprinter vans made / badged by Mercedes, Dodge, and Freightliner. And better, their requirements to interface, what shouldn't be touched, etc are published.Got a link for that handy? Or suggest a search term. Did you know there are CAN switches?Nope, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Yup. Press a switch, and datastream is generated addressing intended device or sending command / request to centralized controller. Similar with relays.I remember encountering a similar engine, might've been in a VW, and it was a real pig to start. Needed a pretty good-sized battery, that one did. Windows, door locks were not digital. They weren't even electric, but still powered. How? Vacuum. Vacuum operated door locks and windows. Very thankful not to have to maintain THAT.Right. I knew a guy who specialiized in "foreign" stuff, and once in a while I'd drop by his garage and he'd show me some of the really odd ways that some makers had of doing things. Like vacuum-operated popup headlights in something or other, for one example. If tools were more common to layperson (being PC there ;) ), I think there would be a much difference attitude towards CAN technology and derivatives as well as predecessors.Yeah, the proprietary and closed-off attitude by some mfrs. gets a little old... Perhaps I am unique. I have the idea that if I own something, I should have complete control over it.Agreed! My phones are rooted.Oh? Tell me more, as I'd like to pursue that at some point. I use Linux (not very well).I've run nothing but since 1999. I started out with Slackware, which I'm currently running on my server and in this virtual machine to do my emailing with. The host system is Debian, just because of handling dependency stuff. My lady had a hard drive fail some time back and when I stuck a new one in her machine I handed her an Ubuntu disk and suggested she try that out. That got installed and went fine for a good long time. Hardware was replaced, and not optimal, and not all that long ago a machine showed up that met her requirements as to size etc. and it came with Linux Mint installed, and she's now happy with that. We've been a microshit-free zone for years now. My F150 had several features added, others turned off because I desired.Telll me more? Heck, I am learning about IoT zigbee and other home mesh networks in relation to doir locks, cameras, lighting control. Starting to lesve behind X10 ( heavily invested).Never got into that stuff yet, but have studied it some. Some people way too overcomplicate it. I'd like to get some cameras here, and I have this nice 24-port router that'll do POE to run them into, I just have to find some that are reasonably priced. What I'm running into is stoopid stuff that uses wifi, but if I've gotta run a wire anyway for power, I might as well run an ethernet cable and deal with things that way... Bought Yukon because can do same thing albeit with Tech2. Except that mine was 3 months too new, and Tech2 is very limited. Now would have to pay $49/3 days subscription.What's that Tech2 stuff? Didn't know about CAN requirement. Makes sense as vehicles now have Blackbox ability and cameras for traffic interaction.It's crazy the amount of stuff they're cramming in there... Time marches on.Indeed. And trying to keep up gets to be more and more fun the older we get, too. :-) -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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wn4isx
On Mon, Dec 16, 2024 at 11:48 AM, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
Sensor in the battery lead? What's that all about? What year is that vehicle? The car has a smart charging system, monitors energy out, energy in, to avoid overcharge and, supposedly, increase battery life. However the system is flawed and doesn't totally charge the battery, I've added a smart charger and do a top off once a week, when it;s gold I place a 400w space heater in the back seat, it keeps the frost and snow off the windows and the interior from being an ice box. I also have a block heater, sort of overkill on such a small engine but I had it so why not use it.
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I'm tempted to redesign the charge system, I'll add it to all the other projects I'll do one day really soon now.
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Most cars/trucks made since 2000 have smart charging with Hall-Effect current monitors in the battery lead.
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I like KISS as a design philosophy.
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wn4isx
I had lunch with my wife's mechanic cousin and a friend of his who works at the largest GM dealer in central Kentucky.
GM uses CAN, LIN and have their own proprietary GMLAN.
GMLAN is most often used for door/seatbelt chimes, oil change, is the seat occupied, seat heating and position, radio to CD changer, radio to AF power amplifier, Radio to motorized antenna, cell phone to radio (mute).
Most radios that use GMLAN must have the other expected connections or it won't power up.
Each GMLAN can be a stand alone, isolated network, or linked through bridges.?
CAN is used in machine shops, maritime and aviation, some home automation is moving that way.
Some 3D printers use CAN commands.
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The CAN readers are less then $100 on Amazon, and, if you have the training and car diagram, can do a decent though not perfect job troubleshooting CAN.
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In many (most) cars/trucks the CAN diagnostic is also the OBDII connector. The car can tell bu the connected test equipment if it's requesting OBDII or CAN data.
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High end cars typically lock out access to all sorts of CAN diagnostic data and won't allow resetting unless you have the factory software.
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I checked for the Volvo when we got the car, 10 years ago, the I/O connector level shifter coast over $500 and the software was over $1k. The software was available at many places online but I decided it'd be simpler to bypass the CAN BS and use relays for local control.
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Apparently the 2006 "you must use CAN" only applies if you as a company or individual make more then X number of cars/trucks a year.
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The GM mechanic races dirt bikes and told me how BMW Motorarad Single Wire System is edging out CAN for bikes.
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Sure glad my Honda CB-360 is dumb as a rock, not that I can ride it, the orthopedist specifically forbad riding any motorcycle and especially any of the Honda Twins because of the vibration.
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I also own a 1981 Subaru 4WD station wagon. Need to complete transfer then rewire the charge system, someone jumped it from a +24V positive ground coal truck.
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Dumb as a rock is sounding better and better for cars and trucks.
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开云体育FWIW, wire in a conventional harness weighs a LOT, and connections are common sources of failure. Good connectors cost a lot of money; good connectors to carry significant current cost more. So - distributing power to all peripherals with as few wires as
possible saves weight and increases reliability. Win on weight; win on reliability; win on serviceability. Donald. On 12/16/24 13:19, Roy J. Tellason, Sr.
via groups.io wrote:
On Monday 16 December 2024 10:05:14 am SheldonD via groups.io wrote:I am NOT opposed to CAN, LIN, single ended or differential serial, etc. It's just a progression of technology.Yeah, and it keeps on progressing, at an ever-accelerating pace...Did you know there are CAN lightbulbs?No, I didn't know that.Yup. No switches. Switching element is in emitter itself. Sounds like a lot of overkill.Yeah it does.But is it? Common database to headlights. Turn lights on, turn lights off. Functions that seem to be easier with a switch or relay. Bulb can report when emitter is burned out. That requires sense leads between bulb circuit and an ecu somewhere, either detecting voltage drop, current flow, or passing a sense current. At least 1 more wire needed. 3 wires needed now.And a lot of the way things are going seems to involve getting rid of as many wires as possible. Because we can do digital stuff! :-) I did a pretty good job of burning out the wiring harness in a 1970 Dodge Dart, and boy was that fun to deal with. We got a mostly good harness from a junkyard (try finding that these days for something of that vintage) and then had to unwrap several miles of electrical tape from both of them and combine them to make one good harness. Both under the hood and under the dash.I foresee bulbs being able to report degradation, color temperature, brightness (computed) functionality if not already there.Then there's the degradation of that stupid choice of plastic that they're using for headlight assemblies these days. I've already had to deal with that more than once.But, back to basics. For Headlights, 2 switches needed (on/off local, on/off high, perhaps with interlock). Parking / Marker lights. Another switch. Turn signals need a switch. Brake lights need a switch, as do dome lights, fog lights, bed / trunk lights. 8 switches, and associated wiring, to provide basic lighting control. Or 1 database.Data bus?What I found most irritating, at least on my Yukon, is inability to interact with databus. GM has held their secrets closely compared to Ford. You can't interface with GM without a Tech2 at a minimum. Ford needs a HSCAN / MSCAN adapter and 3rd party software (Forscan). Both inexpensive. Mopar provides upfitter CAN interface in several of their vehicles that is available direct or buffered. Hmm, maybe that would be Mercedes as I am referring to Sprinter vans made / badged by Mercedes, Dodge, and Freightliner. And better, their requirements to interface, what shouldn't be touched, etc are published.Got a link for that handy? Or suggest a search term.Did you know there are CAN switches?Nope, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.Yup. Press a switch, and datastream is generated addressing intended device or sending command / request to centralized controller. Similar with relays. Member of my extended family had an old Mercedes sedan. 5 cylinder diesel.I remember encountering a similar engine, might've been in a VW, and it was a real pig to start. Needed a pretty good-sized battery, that one did.Windows, door locks were not digital. They weren't even electric, but still powered. How? Vacuum. Vacuum operated door locks and windows. Very thankful not to have to maintain THAT.Right. I knew a guy who specialiized in "foreign" stuff, and once in a while I'd drop by his garage and he'd show me some of the really odd ways that some makers had of doing things. Like vacuum-operated popup headlights in something or other, for one example.If tools were more common to layperson (being PC there ;) ), I think there would be a much difference attitude towards CAN technology and derivatives as well as predecessors.Yeah, the proprietary and closed-off attitude by some mfrs. gets a little old...Perhaps I am unique. I have the idea that if I own something, I should have complete control over it.Agreed!My phones are rooted.Oh? Tell me more, as I'd like to pursue that at some point.I use Linux (not very well).I've run nothing but since 1999. I started out with Slackware, which I'm currently running on my server and in this virtual machine to do my emailing with. The host system is Debian, just because of handling dependency stuff. My lady had a hard drive fail some time back and when I stuck a new one in her machine I handed her an Ubuntu disk and suggested she try that out. That got installed and went fine for a good long time. Hardware was replaced, and not optimal, and not all that long ago a machine showed up that met her requirements as to size etc. and it came with Linux Mint installed, and she's now happy with that. We've been a microshit-free zone for years now.My F150 had several features added, others turned off because I desired.Telll me more?Heck, I am learning about IoT zigbee and other home mesh networks in relation to doir locks, cameras, lighting control. Starting to lesve behind X10 ( heavily invested).Never got into that stuff yet, but have studied it some. Some people way too overcomplicate it. I'd like to get some cameras here, and I have this nice 24-port router that'll do POE to run them into, I just have to find some that are reasonably priced. What I'm running into is stoopid stuff that uses wifi, but if I've gotta run a wire anyway for power, I might as well run an ethernet cable and deal with things that way...Bought Yukon because can do same thing albeit with Tech2. Except that mine was 3 months too new, and Tech2 is very limited. Now would have to pay $49/3 days subscription.What's that Tech2 stuff?Didn't know about CAN requirement. Makes sense as vehicles now have Blackbox ability and cameras for traffic interaction.It's crazy the amount of stuff they're cramming in there...Time marches on.Indeed. And trying to keep up gets to be more and more fun the older we get, too. :-) -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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wn4isx
I remember the first CPU equipped car I saw. A 1980ish Datson. The CPU module used a Z80 and all the chips were milspec ceramic. I giggled and wished the owner "Good luck, it won't last till Christmas."
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The car died a decade plus later parked when a dump truck backed over it.
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My wife's former ZX2 has 179K miles on it, engine and tranny ran fine, the rear end was eaten by rust.
I can't imagine a high end American car from 1960 making it that far.?
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Perhaps Volvo adopted CAN before the tech was ready, but our car was so messed up the dealer's diagnostics said there were no hardware failures but the car was unfixable. If kept flashing odd error codes only to change them every few seconds, They'd never seen anything like it.
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It is possible the defective CD changer was jamming the CAN Buss. The dealer didn't charge for the first diagnostics but it'd have been $100 for the second.
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I wonder how "Right to repair" and CAN/LIN/GMLAN are going to work out.
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You have to register for this particular site, pretty sure it contains all you ever wanted to know about modifying a MB van, and other vehicles. My experience with the upfitter portion of CAN on a Sprinter was troubleshooting a MobileEYE driver awareness system. Able to detect cars, people, debris far further than driver would be aware. Then let driver know it sees something, heightening awareness. Didn't have ability to apply brakes, but it would vary its 'see' range based on speed input from CANBus. On a 2018 Sprinter, converted to a Class C RV, there were 2 CAN access points. 1 located under floor covering at bottom edge of 'dog house'. This one was raw CAN. Other was a buffered CAN located under driver seat, also had fuses and relay provisions. The MobileEYE installer connected direct to vehicle CAN, and when MobileEYE crashed, it affected vehicle in negative way when bus was seized. The buffered CAN had logic to analyze data flow and content so a constant repetitive stream over x period of time (variable) would trigger isolation. It also prevented attached devices and associated wiring from taking down CANbus. It's interesting just how long CAN has been in lights. When needed replacement tail lights for a 2011 Dodge Sprinter, I was asked if I needed CAN lights. I didn't know. Was told to look at connector. If memory serves, each bulb had 2 wires, CAN would have been 3 for CANL bus. I like the Sprinter line, especially the 3500s featuring tucked in duals. But, Dodge only works on Dodge, Mercedes only works on Mercedes. Freightliner refuses to work on anything with less than 10 wheels, just too busy backlogged. Tech2 is a vehicle programmer used by GM starting with GMT600 series of vehicles. I THINK it started use in mid/late90s. My 2012 Yukon is a GMT900 chassis, built in July 2011, just a couple months after Tech2 would be effective. The Tech2, had I been able to use it, would allow me to swap and reprogram various ECMs found all over the truck. As it is, I have a module for dash, steering wheel, radio, front climate controls, rear climate controls, trailer, transmission, engine fuel management, engine electrical (incl CS44 269A smart alternator with current sensor), seat restraints front, seat restraints rear, windows / doors, rear lift gate, lighting, onstarm satellite radio / CD changer. Those are just what I remember. Tech2 will talk to them, but cannot replace them now. To do that, I have to use a CANdi adapter, install software on a laptop, and pay a lot. Nope. Next vehicle will be a FORD. FORScan (forscan.org) and an OBD MAX MX+ bluetoith adapter and I can even replace keys without having originals, or make vehicle think it's a toaster. The whole idea behind IoT is wireless / seamless communication. I can understand why would all be wifi, despite needing a power cord. There are projects for Arduino and Pi that offer similar functionality but over hardline. (Serial or ethernet). ~SD |
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wn4isx
One problem with new 'driver alertness monitoring" systems is some of them don't like certain sunglasses.
The system "thinks" you aren't paying attention to the road and will issue a series of warnings, the last being "pull over and park the engine will turn off in 5 minutes."
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A cousin is a lawyer (yea the shame) and has blue eyes and sneezes in bright sunlight and has prescription sunglasses. Really dark sunglasses. The system can't see her eyes, decides she isn't paying attention and goes into 'I'm gonna stop" routine. She and the dealership went around and around until she brought up the Americans With Disabilities Act. The dealer offered a full refund, she refused and demanded the driver alert system be either modified or disabled. The company sent an engineer and reprogrammed the master CPU and ancillary units and turned off the driver alert system.
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The company is terrified of a class action law suit which I hope there is one and they have their heads handed to them.
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If people really understood all the data modern? cars and trucks collect on them there'd be? a revolution.
Their cars monitor and record conversations, video, one company even claims the right to collect DNA
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I wonder how long before someone hacks into a car and shuts it down with bad results for the driver.
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Driver monitoring.
Yeah, I had a nice run-in with a rental company monitoring system that flagged nebulizer use as smoking. They couldn't backtrack fast enough when Lawyer inquired about number of people my medical condition was exposed to. You are right though, people should be concerned. Very concerned. And proactive. My Yukon is not as dumb without Onstar (3G sunset) as they would have me believe. Odd that I can't make calls, but get the system unavailable message, after ringing, due to insufficient credits. Tested a theory by trying to buy the service, and nice representative came online informing me my system is obsolete and cannot be used. Except that it can be, and was with conversation being proof. Onstar has been removed by the roots (in dash, behind climate controls). Stealership told me that in order to add key fobs to the Yukon, Onstar has to be put back. Uh, huh. Dorman Blackbox worked just fine. Uh, huh. Onstar is 'shutdown', could still make calls, and has to be needlessly restored? I don't think so. ~SD |
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wn4isx
The 280Z was infamous in EMI/Ham circles for the total lack of shielding and bypassing on the CPU.
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A fellow engineer had one and thunder storms were enough to cause it to run rough.
Every lightning strike within 100 miles caused a miss.
We wrapped the CPU in tinfoil (honest to God tinfoil with small holes punched in for ventalation) soldered a ground wire to it and applied 1000pf feed through capacitors on an 1" X 1" by 1 foot alunimum L strip for all the power, data and fuel injection lines.
The CPU only monitoried engine speed, incoming air temp, and crank position.?
It didn't monitor throttle so I was never sure how it accelerated.?
It was one of the few production cars that could beat a Honda CB-350 or 450 off the line for 50 to 100 feet.
Many cars would catch up with a Honda CB-x but damn few could beat you for that first 50 feet.
The 289Z had an obscene acceleration to mass ratio, was made from thin metal and didn't do well in even slow speed crashes.?The fellow engineer lost control on a rain wet road at 30ish MPH, the car looked like it'd been through a crusher.
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Datson reduced weight everywhere they could including the frame,
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Back then I ran 200w on ham HF and could shut down many cars at stop lights by keying down.
Audis were the worst. My 2W 2m (144MHz) walkie talkie would shut them down 100 feet away.
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On Monday 16 December 2024 02:07:07 pm wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
Dumb as a rock is sounding better and better for cars and trucks.Yep! My project vehicle is a '78 D200, and the only electronics in it at all are the igniion module (yay! no more points to deal with) and the voltage regulator, which is _not_ built into the alternator. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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