On Sunday 15 December 2024 07:19:52 pm wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
OK upfront I'm an analog guy. I don't hate digital, far from it, but I prefer to solve my design problems with analog solutions. I have more computers then common sense, I can and do write code, bad code, overly complex code, but still code that works. I program in Ada [ick]
Ditto on the ick. :-)
or GW-Basic and compile it with a 198? MS compiler. I've avoided Raspberry, Ardunio, PIC, PIC-AXE etc because I have enough other problems.
I too avoided a lot of that stuff, and thought about things like the z80 and 6502, which I have bunches of. But having to lash up several chips and burn an EPROM kind of put me off of doing anything with those parts. I did get into arduino not all that long ago (the name put me off for some reason) and they can be a lot of fun. Got a Pi4 not too long ago, a "Canakit" that came with an enclosure, touch screen (too damn small at around 4"), real keyboard and mouse. I'm thinking that if I can get the right HDMI cable I can use that thing to view YT videos on the TV here. Got some ESP8266 and ESP32 modules, too, and the capability to program them is included now in my arduino IDE. That's a dual-core processor with built-in bluetooth and wifi, a very capable little board, and for not very much money at all. I bought five of them to play with.
Although I did use some premade code to burn PICs to produce 60Hz, 440Hz, 1PPs real time and sidereal, and other useful frequencies from a 10MHz GPS disciplined oscillator. [I'd love to have premade PIC code for "D" and "C".]
I see PIC stuff used a lot in Nuts&Volts articles, but have avoided them for the most part because I'd need to buy some specialized stuff to be able to deal with them, and it's one mfr.
I understand RS-232 in and out, Ethernet from AX.25 (ham packet radio.)
Heh. As do I, and there's a skill that I don't remember the last time I used it. Weird handshaking configurations, null modem cables, and all that fun stuff.
However I'm only aware of in car data networks because I had to deal with one. I learned enough about CAN to know I needed specialized, expensive, test gear to begin to unravel the CAN problems in our Volvo so I lobotomized it by replacing most functions with local relay control.
I suspect that equipment is probably more widely available now than it used to be, and probably a whole heck of a lot cheaper. Not that I'm inclined to go there...
Although I do have this one gizmo that might prove useful. It calls itself a "logic analyzer" and has a 10-pin header on one side, up to 8 channels of input, a clock line, and a ground connection. USB on the other side to connect it to your computer, where a program called "pulseview" will show you what's going on. You can select one out of a whole mes of different protocols, and it decodes things for you I think I paid under $10 for the thing. Looking, yeah, CAN is in there along with about 15 other protocols. Check out sigrok.org for more info on this.
I can look at the data streams with an oscilloscope but it might as well be High Martian.
Right.
Until Goey's request for the pin out of a radio, I'd not looked into CAN since lobotomizing our Volvo.
Looking at that document linked in here recently, I was surprised at how over-complicated that stuff had been getting. And it surprises me that it works as well as it does. We were talking about getting another vehicle not too long ago, and my inclination is to move towards something older that would have a whole lot less of this gadgetry in it. We haven't moved forward with that and I'm not sure when we will, at this point. It's easier to just keep things going with what we've got.
I was amazed to learn our Echo didn't have CAN. I assumed it did and prayed it would never give trouble. [Sometimes you luck out!] Though the current sensor in the battery lead creates some issues I'd prefer to avoid.
Sensor in the battery lead? What's that all about? What year is that vehicle?
Today I learned there is also a simpler car data network, LIN, that GM [and others] uses for controlling the radio et al in some models.
Most cars made after 2003 will have CAN and, by federal law, all new cars and light trucks made after 2008 sold in the US must have CAN.
By federal law? I wonder what that's all about. I know that after a certain point (I think it's 2016 and later) backup cameras are mandatory. Hell, I don't see a need for one, I can turn around and look if I have to.
I suggest anyone interested in CAN and LIN start with Wiki then dig as deep as they need.
CAN/LIN will probably be part of your future.
Not if I can help it!
We were so "lucky" with our Volvo as they were an early adopter of CAN.
I've learned some manufacturers require their "in car entertainment systems" receive authorization from the main computer before they will turn on. [Such joy.]
Oh, there's lots of crazy stuff going on in cars these days. I heard a while back that replacing any one of a number of different modules, say with one from a junkyard, will result in the car's odometer reading being taken from whichever module has the highest number! And you can't do anything about it. I guess that's to incentivize buying a new module from a dealer, but really!
I see how a cousin of my wife makes a comfortable living by rebuilding pre 1990 cars, his wife does the detail work (she can even replace the headliner!!!!). I can see why any sane person would want a pre-CAN car because it requires specialized equipment and knowledge to trouble shoot them. Imagine all the wiring interconnects in a modern car....now imagine trouble shooting them.
That document that was linked in here details a lot of that stuff. It's crazy.
CAN is being used for all sorts of non-automotive applications, the list is growing and bewildering.
I suspect serious electronic hobbyists will have to deal with CAN/LIN sooner then later.
I don't know about that.
I've given a lot of thought about what level of tech I'm comfortable with. Lots of people seem to think that you have to deal with surface-mount parts, ferinstance. "Oh, it's not that big of a deal once you get used to handlng those teeny little parts..." Nope, I ain't going there. Through-hole is where it's at as far as I'm concerned, and if I need the functionality of something that's only available in surface mount, I'll buy a little module that'll give me pins to connect to...
This makes it look sooo simple...
Not bad. Though I see two issues with this stuff. One is that you really do need the right documentation for the vehicle in question. It took me a while, but I eventually got a hold of a shop manual for our 2013 Dodge Journey. That pdf is over 10,000 pages! I've looked at it some but haven't really gotten too far with it. The other thing is where he says to disconnect the battery. Now that used to be a fairly trivial thing to do, but in this vehicle you don't see the battery under the hood. No, to get at it you need to remove the driver's side front wheel and then remove an access panel! The battery did go bad in there and that was one of those "pay somebody else to deal with it" deals. I suppose that the battery could be disconnected by undoing one of the cables under the hood, but I haven't hit the part of the manual that details which one yet.
That log cabin on 20 acres is looking more attractive every day.......
Heh. I hear ya! But we're pretty far out in the boonies already, water from a well and heating with a wood stove and such. I really don't think I'd care to go a whole lot further down that path...
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
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Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
