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Re: Batteries
On Monday 03 March 2025 12:59:52 pm wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
The Everready >primary< AA and AAA and 9V lithiums do not have a drop down regulator.Yeah. I have one meter that uses a 9V, which lasts about a year if I put an alkaline in there. A lithium will last 3-4 years, typically. I don't use that meter much lately as the on-off switch has gotten flaky and I have other meters around to use... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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Re: Batteries
On Monday 03 March 2025 12:59:37 pm Andy via groups.io wrote:
I remember a story some 20 years ago, how car batteries from the same "American" name brand companies suddenly became noticeably lighter, because they started using significantly thinner lead.? I think it coincided with using a different Chinese supplier for the American name brand.I rather doubt that. Thickness of the plates bears directly on the reserve power spec, while the number of plates bears on the CCA spec. What I was dealing with was made by Exide, not made in china. There were a few other big makers around, and lots of places just put their own stickers on them. There were a few other mfrs, none of them chinese. I just recently did a battery swap, and found out that one place that used to carry Exide exclusively was carrying an assortment of brands, including some that were Korean. But not chinese. -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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Re: Batteries
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 09:39 AM, Donald H Locker wrote:
Are you sure?? I never saw anything suggesting that.? I can't say for certain, but I am fairly sure they do not. ?
I was wrong about their shelf life.? It says 20 years, not 10 or 15.
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Andy
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Re: Batteries
wn4isx
I think we are getting hung up on technical definitions that were not used in the real world. ? A carbon-zinc is classified as a Laclanche in all my battery books. [can't add the diacritical above the e in this font] While carbon-zinc and Laclanche are "the same." I suspect every since the first Laclanche was built in a lab, there has been constant improvements with minor differences in the open terminal battery voltage. ? From "Batteries in a Portable World - A Handbook on Rechargeable - Isidor Buchmann - 4, 2017" ? High specific energy and long storage have made alkaline more popular than the old zinc- carbon, which Georges Leclanché invented in 1868. ------------ Choices of Primary Batteries Zinc-carbon, also known as carbon-zinc or the Leclanché battery, is one of the earliest and least expensive primary batteries. It delivers 1.5V and often come with consumer devices. The first zinc-carbon invented by Georges Leclanché in 1859 was wet. -------------------------------- When I was a kid, the magazines all said we could count on a new carbon-zinc having an open circuit voltage of 1.5V. ? I suspect this was a bit optimistic but hobbyist accuracy in 1960 was probably a lot more hope then reality. ? I bought a set of carbon-zinc "D" cells at Kroger Sunday, cut one open (God what a mess) and it had the expected carbon rod down the center and a layer of zinc surrounded by a case of steel. ? With the exception of the outer case of steel, it looks just like the cells I opened back in 1958~1965. I'm assuming the damp black crud is magnesium dioxide, I don't have any way to verify that at the moment. [I wonder if you heat magnesium dioxide in a closed container if you could 'drive off' the oxygen leaving magnesium. I can test magnesium but lighting it, if it burns brighter then the sun, it's magnesium.] ? The open circuit voltage was 1.61V. ? I suspect the magnesium dioxide probably has an additive. Again, I don't have an analytical chemistry lab handy, don't think the university will let me use one of their labs, and it's been so long since I've done any chemical analysis (class back in 1976) I wouldn't trust myself to make an accurate analysis. ? One thing the battery book stated was "all primary cells release hydrogen" and that might be why alkaline cells are now leaking. ? ? ? ? My wife has a Dell something or other laptop with touch screen, the screen rotates and flips around to form a giant tablet and a stylus that uses AAAA cells. She can do some nice art work with the stylus. |
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Re: Batteries
I wrote:
Sorry, I take that back. ?
It depends on which store I go to.? Where I shop most frequently, Energizer fills most of the racks.? In another, it's Duracell.
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But not the Eveready brand name.? I think Eveready and Energizer are co-owned, but Eveready is its own brand, which I rarely ever see anymore.
Andy ? |
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Re: Batteries
On Monday 03 March 2025 09:39:09 am Donald H Locker via groups.io wrote:
Have you ever tried the glow plug test on a Li AA cell?That bit with the glow plug was back when I was in high school, *MANY* decades ago. Lithium AA cells weren't around back then... -- Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters" - Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James M Dakin |
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Re: Batteries
开云体育Andy, The cell or battery is charged, for example, for a minute then discharged for a second and continuously repeat until charged. I have seen it apply to different cell types. Bertho ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andy via groups.io
How does one give a cell a "reverse charge"?? What does it even mean? ? It implies doing a partial DIScharge first.? Is that it?? I'm assuming it does not mean to discharge until the voltage reaches 10% negative, but like I said, I don't understand. ? Does it help only with "non-rechargeable" dry cells?? Or does it apply to rechargeables too? ? Andy ? |
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Re: Batteries
On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 02:18 PM, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
The YT channel "Project Farm" does all sorts of comparison tests on a lot of stuff, and he did one video comparing different brands, some of which I'd never heard of. He arrived at the conclusion that lithium was the way to go, that they didn't leak, and offered better performance than any of the alkaline cells that were out there. Now by "lithium" - do you mean the NON-rechargeable, super-long-life lithium 1.5 V cells?? The ones that cost $20 for a pack of four AA's?
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I use those for the outside thermometer so it won't freeze, but I reserve it for that only because they cost so much.
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If I'm not mistaken, they are guaranteed to have at least 10 or 15 years of shelf life.
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It is unfortunate that there are so many cells and batteries named "lithium" these days.? Some electronics insists "NO lithium batteries!" but of course they are talking about the lithium-ion rechargeables (which are nowhere near 1.5 V), not the non-rechargeable lithium cells (which are about 1.5 V).
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Andy
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Re: Batteries
On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 02:18 PM, Roy J. Tellason, Sr. wrote:
These days if you look at the battery rack in the front of a Wal-Mart near the registers, it's pretty much more Eveready than anything else.Interesting.? That's not what I see here.? (I stopped going to Walmart during early COVID and mostly haven't been back.)? These days I see tons of Duracell and few of others.? I'm sure each retailer has their preferences.? Less supply-demand, more what they want to put on their shelves, as long as it moves. ?
Andy
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Re: Batteries
wn4isx
The Everready >primary< AA and AAA and 9V lithiums do not have a drop down regulator.
Just disassembled a dead AA and 9V.
They are pricey but probably worth it for several reasons...
For test gear I seldom use, the 10 year life expectancy means the test gear will probably work when I need it, and, if the lithium goes flat, it won't leak.
For devices like our blood pressure machine, used everyday, a set of lithiums last about 3 times as long as alkylines with no risk of leakage.
For the flashlights in the cars, given the 10 year life expectancy, I can count on having them work when I? need them.
My primary reason for adopting them was lack of leaking and no corrosion, and I pay through the nose for the cells / batteries.
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Re: Batteries
On Sun, Mar 2, 2025 at 07:41 AM, Bertho wrote:
I don't know, but I expect they all use crimped seals of? one form or another, and the quality of those seals (a manufacturing step where they can save money) surely comes into play.? Even if they use the same cell wall thickness, if the seal fails, it's no good.
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They are not likely to inspect them after sealing them.
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I remember a story some 20 years ago, how car batteries from the same "American" name brand companies suddenly became noticeably lighter, because they started using significantly thinner lead.? I think it coincided with using a different Chinese supplier for the American name brand.
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Andy
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Re: Batteries
I don't know if this is relevant.? ?But one of the stated characteristics of Leclanche cells was an initial open-circuit voltage of about 1.4 V, which rapidly falls off.? Whereas carbon/zinc dry cells are supposed to be a little above 1.5 V, and all the ones I played with, measured close to 1.6 V when new.
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And I still wonder why the only person in the world I have ever seen call them Leclanche cells, is here in this group.? Nobody else ever calls them that.? Why is that?? Is it because few of the people I know are chemists?? But surely many of them are engineers, and none of the engineers I know ever called them that.? Even some chemists don't call them Leclanche either.
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I have your word, or I have my years of experience, to go on here.? Which do you think I am inclined to believe?
How does one give a cell a "reverse charge"?? What does it even mean? ?
It implies doing a partial DIScharge first.? Is that it?? I'm assuming it does not mean to discharge until the voltage reaches 10% negative, but like I said, I don't understand.
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Does it help only with "non-rechargeable" dry cells?? Or does it apply to rechargeables too?
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Andy
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Photo Notifications
#photo-notice
Group Notification
Dave <theschemer@...> added the photo album Lorex Wifi Camera : An image of the circuit board of my Lorex Wifi security camera that has lost it's effective range. The following photos have been uploaded to the Lorex Wifi Camera photo album of the [email protected] group. By: Dave <theschemer@...> |
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Re: Wireless Camera repair
On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 02:27 PM, Dave wrote:
I'd be concerned about the word "outdoor" in that sentence.
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Being exposed to the elements opens up at least a few cans of worms.? Including corrosion.? Or frozen (compromised) components.? Some of that you might not be able to easily see.
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Andy
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Re: Wireless Camera repair
I just realized that the problem is likely just the wifi card that the antenna connects to. Problem is that it's likely proprietary and? not obtainable.
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On 3/2/2025 10:41 PM, wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
Is the screw on connector mounted on the PCB or is there a jumper? |
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Re: Wireless Camera repair
I just opened it up with a Phillips head screwdriver and all the connections look ok. The antenna connection is on the frame or housing of the camera and looks in fine shape. It travels through the adjustable angle connector and into the main housing. It's all SMT in there but after a quick look I see no issues and the wire from the antenna connects the same way a wifi card in a laptop does and it looks fine. I may look at it at a later date under the microscope but the way its assembled even if I did find and replace a bad SMD component (and they are really small) it would be a real pain to re-assemble it and probably wouldn't work anyway. I will post a pic if the circuit board just so you can see what I have.
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Thanks On 3/2/2025 10:41 PM, wn4isx via groups.io wrote:
Is the screw on connector mounted on the PCB or is there a jumper? |
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Re: Batteries
开云体育Question about the Lithium AA cells - I know they use a little buck regulator to get the voltage down to 1.5V (nominal) but that also means that they are current-limited. Finding out the current limit on the advertised products it "deucedly" difficult. Have you ever tried the glow plug test on a Li AA cell? Many TIA, On 3/2/25 14:37, Roy J. Tellason, Sr.
via groups.io wrote:
On Sunday 02 March 2025 01:49:59 am Andy via groups.io wrote:On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 01:30 PM, wn4isx wrote:****The "less likely to leak" has become a joke, all the major brands now leak long before their use by date. **** [snip] The YT channel "Project Farm" does all sorts of comparison tests on a lot of stuff, and he did one video comparing different brands, some of which I'd never heard of. He arrived at the conclusion that lithium was the way to go, that they didn't leak, and offered better performance than any of the alkaline cells that were out there. |
Bertho