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Greetings!?
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ?
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ?
Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
?
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
I went with the Thunderstruck 10Kw kit in my Kirby 30, it's working great.? The boat's lighter than yours (~6,000 lbs) so you'd probably want to go with their 12KW kit, the only issue is that it's liquid cooled.
I'm using 3 Dakota Lithium 48V/96 Ah batteries with Victron MPPT controllers and 6 110W panels on my deck when I'm not using the boat.? I race the boat 1-2 nights/week and daysail one day on the weekend, I found that I only needed to charge the batteries once per month.
I went with LIFEPO4 since I use my boat mostly for racing and was not into taking the weight penalty.? When we brought the boat from Bowmanville to Toronto in light winds last year we used about 70% of the battery capacity (motoring at 4-5 knots for 9 hours in flat water).? Unless you're doing a ton of long distance cruising, I'd hold off on the diesel generator.
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I'll second the suggestion for the Thunderstruck 12kW kit.? I used that in my Pearson 10M (12,400 lbs) with great success.? With the 10kW motor I would be running at 70-8% for standard cruise.?? It's more like 50-60% with the 12kW.? It's not using less power but it is at a more moderate load for the components in the system.? Also I have more reserve power for the occasional needs (like a choppy entrance).? The 12kW is liquid cooled with adds some complexity but I think it's the only way to get reasonable sustained cruising speed in a boat this size or larger.? If you're content with being constrained to 3-4 knots then the 10kW might do.? But you'll be pushing it hard to get more speed if needed.?
If you already have the AGM batteries then by all means use them.? If not don't waste your money.? Go straight to LiFePo4.? Over the lifetime of the batteries they will be cheaper.? And your usable capacity (and range) will be almost double for the same size AH bank.??? I built my own 48v from 16 cells in series.? There are a lot more off-the-shelf options around now.? But the cost savings would still lead me to build.?? See details on my battery here:
Lots of details on my installation here including component choices, reduction drive, cooling system, costs, performance...
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info: I like to think of the electric drive system in terms of limits.? You run into limits everywhere in the process.? Understanding them will guide you in the selection of components.? I have tried to organize my thoughts on limits here: Good luck, we're all counting on you... Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2023-03-22 6:24 pm, julienweiller via groups.io wrote:
Greetings!?
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ?
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ?
Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
I’ll second Dan - I love my 10kw in a similar size and weight and occasionally wish it had just a little more oomph, especially in strong tidal curents against the wind. It’s enough to be safe, but requires more vigilance than if it just WENT.?
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On Mar 23, 2023, at 9:03 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I'll second the suggestion for the Thunderstruck 12kW kit.? I used that in my Pearson 10M (12,400 lbs) with great success.? With the 10kW motor I would be running at 70-8% for standard cruise.?? It's more like 50-60% with the 12kW.? It's not using less power but it is at a more moderate load for the components in the system.? Also I have more reserve power for the occasional needs (like a choppy entrance).? The 12kW is liquid cooled with adds some complexity but I think it's the only way to get reasonable sustained cruising speed in a boat this size or larger.? If you're content with being constrained to 3-4 knots then the 10kW might do.? But you'll be pushing it hard to get more speed if needed.?
If you already have the AGM batteries then by all means use them.? If not don't waste your money.? Go straight to LiFePo4.? Over the lifetime of the batteries they will be cheaper.? And your usable capacity (and range) will be almost double for the same size AH bank.??? I built my own 48v from 16 cells in series.? There are a lot more off-the-shelf options around now.? But the cost savings would still lead me to build.?? See details on my battery here:
Lots of details on my installation here including component choices, reduction drive, cooling system, costs, performance...
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info: I like to think of the electric drive system in terms of limits.? You run into limits everywhere in the process.? Understanding them will guide you in the selection of components.? I have tried to organize my thoughts on limits here: Good luck, we're all counting on you... Dan Pfeiffer On 2023-03-22 6:24 pm, julienweiller via groups.io wrote:
Greetings!? Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) . I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ? Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ? Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
I would concur about skipping the AGM batteries unless you already have them and even then I would consider switching straight to lithium. Take it from someone who ran lead acid for 10 years and over 5000 miles, lead pails in comparison to lithium and it has gotten so cheap now it is almost on par with lead. Amazon sells 100amp hour, 12v batteries with bms and a charger for less than $300 that can be series to 48V and the ones I bought seem to work great. If freezing is an issue make sure you spec one with freeze protection and consider getting 8 of them to make a parallel bank of two four packs because the bms limits you to 100 amp output.?
If you want to step up to a little higher quality, Signature Solar has a very nice 100amp, 48V, waterproof series with a whopping 5 kWhrs of usable energy for about $1600 each but again I'd consider getting two in parallel because of the 100amp limitation. I've got both systems on the Arc and performance wise I can't tell the difference but I'm guessing the cheap batteries won't last as long. Time will tell but I'm telling you, don't waste your money on AGMs because unless you need cold cranking amps for a big ICE, lead is dead, imo.?
Capt. Carter www.shipofimagination.com ?
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 09:53:52 AM EDT, julienweiller via groups.io <julienweiller@...> wrote:
Greetings!?
Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) .
I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ?
Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ?
Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max.
?
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
+1 to this - I just wasn’t going to plug it because I’m a lithium battery dealer ;-)
If you can start with a smallish lithium bank you will save on hassle, frustration, and accessories.?
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On Mar 23, 2023, at 10:45 AM, twowheelinguy via groups.io <twowheelinguy@...> wrote:
I would concur about skipping the AGM batteries unless you already have them and even then I would consider switching straight to lithium. Take it from someone who ran lead acid for 10 years and over 5000 miles, lead pails in comparison to lithium and it has gotten so cheap now it is almost on par with lead. Amazon sells 100amp hour, 12v batteries with bms and a charger for less than $300 that can be series to 48V and the ones I bought seem to work great. If freezing is an issue make sure you spec one with freeze protection and consider getting 8 of them to make a parallel bank of two four packs because the bms limits you to 100 amp output.?
If you want to step up to a little higher quality, Signature Solar has a very nice 100amp, 48V, waterproof series with a whopping 5 kWhrs of usable energy for about $1600 each but again I'd consider getting two in parallel because of the 100amp limitation. I've got both systems on the Arc and performance wise I can't tell the difference but I'm guessing the cheap batteries won't last as long. Time will tell but I'm telling you, don't waste your money on AGMs because unless you need cold cranking amps for a big ICE, lead is dead, imo.?
Capt. Carter www.shipofimagination.com ?
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 09:53:52 AM EDT, julienweiller via groups.io <julienweiller@...> wrote:
Greetings!? Looking for recommendations to go hybrid (series, not parallel) . I will need a 48 v electric propulsion plus adequate diesel generator/range extender for a 15000 pound full keel 30 footer sailboat, 24”6“ waterline, hull speed 6.5 kn (Baba 30). ? Getting rid of actual engine, a 3 cylinders 30 hp diesel.
Plan is to start with 4 x 12v 150 Ah ?AGM (just enough to go dock down the basin)?
Switch to high kWh lithium in the future for ocean sailing ? Will also add solar to the equation.?
I am looking for a diesel generator/range extender that could pretty much keep the batteries up while motoring.?
So, that’s a lot of questions at once:
1 motor ?
2 compatible AGM/lithium controller ?
3 diesel generator?
4 solar??
5 lithium batteries?
6 compatible with all the above +220/110 charger?
7 BMS added if not battery integrated?
Sorry if this is a repeat question but it’s 2023 and it seems that technology is fast evolving!
Pretty please: no 96 nor 72 volts suggestions ?I am sticking with 48, 52 max. ?
All best and in advance, much thanks!
|
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!), Delving back a little... On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616. I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
Rob
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I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
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On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
|
Thanks Dan. You're a trove of good information!
Have you had any issues with the ME1616?
On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 2:17?AM Dan Pfeiffer < dan@...> wrote:
I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
|
Have you looked into the Victron Quattro Charger/Inverters? There are models that can output up to 140 amps at 48V. This would allow use of less expensive, AC generators. Then you would have AC power anytime while cruising/ at anchor. I have the 5KVA Quattro with 70 amp output. Unfortunately I don’t have a big enough generator to use it to full potential.?
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On Jun 1, 2023, at 20:16, Robert McArthur <rjmcarthur@...> wrote:
? Thanks Dan. You're a trove of good information!
Have you had any issues with the ME1616? On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 2:17?AM Dan Pfeiffer < dan@...> wrote:
I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
|
Thanks Chris, I did briefly think about it. We've a 48V multiplus ii, the 5kva version,? so not enough by itself.? Another A$8,500 for the 15kva version, and still have to buy a large enough AC genset.? And then there's the efficiency of AC, wires, inverter to DC, wires. I'm not entirely convinced the DC genset with rectifier is that much better, given that in my situation both will be running at highish rpms to fill the lithium battery pack,? negating some of the dc gensets benefit of variable speed.
Rob
Have you looked into the Victron Quattro Charger/Inverters? There are models that can output up to 140 amps at 48V. This would allow use of less expensive, AC generators. Then you would have AC power anytime while cruising/ at anchor. I have the 5KVA Quattro with 70 amp output. Unfortunately I don’t have a big enough generator to use it to full potential.?
Chris
|
I have a 4.5Kw,?48 volt,?alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh?
On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
|
Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together?? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via groups.io wrote:
I have a 4.5Kw,?48 volt,?alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh?
?
On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
?
|
I'm presently using a 2kw generator (Harbor Freight) and a 48vdc golf cart charger. Also have 200 watts of solar power (12vdc in series for 24vdc with a boost controller to 48vdc). All of that is pretty cheep. But I can hold 4.8 knots all day long with the sun shining.?
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 6:03 PM Dan Pfeiffer < dan@...> wrote:
Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together?? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.
On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via wrote:
I have a 4.5Kw,?48 volt,?alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh?
?
On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
?
|
Are you saying you can hold 4.8 knots at 2200 watts (2000+200)?? What are the boat specs?? Have you measured actual output from generator and solar??
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2023-06-04 5:28 pm, reesekc wrote:
I'm presently using a 2kw generator (Harbor Freight) and a 48vdc golf cart charger. Also have 200 watts of solar power (12vdc in series for 24vdc with a boost controller to 48vdc). All of that is pretty cheep. But I can hold 4.8 knots all day long with the sun shining.?
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 6:03 PM Dan Pfeiffer < dan@...> wrote:
Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together?? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.
On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via wrote:
I have a 4.5Kw,?48 volt,?alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh?
?
On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
?
|
Hughes 35.5 ft sailboat. Ran several days, anchored at night. Had volt meter continually monitoring.? Slowed down when volts reduced, sped up when volts went up. Everything settled at 4.8 knots speed.
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 7:21 PM Dan Pfeiffer < dan@...> wrote:
Are you saying you can hold 4.8 knots at 2200 watts (2000+200)?? What are the boat specs?? Have you measured actual output from generator and solar??
On 2023-06-04 5:28 pm, reesekc wrote:
I'm presently using a 2kw generator (Harbor Freight) and a 48vdc golf cart charger. Also have 200 watts of solar power (12vdc in series for 24vdc with a boost controller to 48vdc). All of that is pretty cheep. But I can hold 4.8 knots all day long with the sun shining.?
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023, 6:03 PM Dan Pfeiffer < dan@...> wrote:
Is this a commercially available unit or something you put together?? That is a reasonable power output for continuous cruise on about a 10,000 lb monohull I think.
On 2023-06-01 11:23 am, jeremy baker via wrote:
I have a 4.5Kw,?48 volt,?alternator powered by a 8hp propane fueled engine. But no boat yet. Sigh?
?
On Thursday, June 1, 2023, 10:17 AM, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@...> wrote:
I have not built the genset yet.? It was suggested to me by one of the engineers at Thunderstruck that I could do it with the ME1616 with a rectifier and regulator.? But I have not researched it any further.?
I have a 3cyl 12kW Kubota diesel that was a removal from a new excavator converted to all electric.? It is not a marinized engine and I will need to sort that out but it doesn't seem too difficult.? Mostly to do with the heat exchanger and associated pumps and plumbing.? I may also need a belt drive to better match RPM's to get the desired output.? Direct drive would be preferred and the ME1616 is rated at 38.46 rpm/v so that's is in the ball park (57.2V @ 2200rpm).? Have to consider voltage drop through rectifier stages to get proper charging voltage input to regulator?? More research needed...
BUT, after running my electric drive for two seasons I don't know that I need such a large genset (10kW).? I could probably do with 5 or 6kW rather that 10.? See my reasoning here:
Perhaps as a general rule of thumb the genset capacity needed for reasonable continuous cruise at 75 to 85% of hull speed (for a monohull) you can do with 65 to 75% of the motor kW capacity needed to get to hull speed.? So if you need 10kW to get to hull speed that would be 5.5 to 6.5 kW gen set for reasonable continuous cruise.? By continuous cruise I mean maintaining desired speed without drawing down batteries.? For me that's 5.5 to 6 knots cruise.? From my observations I can do that at about 5kW.? But I always want to consider having sufficient headroom that I am not running any of the components at 100% to get the desired performance.?? That gets me to 6 or 7kW genset?? But 5kW would get me at a comfortable continuous cruise at 5 to 5.5 knots with headroom.?
My boat is a 12,500lb monohull with a 28.3ft waterline.?
My boat is a 5,700 kg monohull with a 8.6m waterline.
More details on my electric drive conversion here:
Dan Pfeiffer
On 2023-06-01 10:01 am, Robert McArthur wrote:
Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!),
Delving back a little...
On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
?
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
?
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616.
I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
?
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
?
Rob
?
|
Hello Rob,
I went the easier (but more expensive route) of buying a DC genset (I settled on a Fischer Panda AGT 18000 --> 18KVA). I am running at 96VDC, and that was a 5% premium on top of their 48VDC catalog price.
The larger price tag compared to an equivalent power AC genset makes sense to me, as the rectifier box is an additional piece of equipment provided in the system. The rectifier diodes are water cooled (connected to the sea water circuit of the generator). If you were to go this path, you need to account for the space requirement for the rectifier box, and how you will route not only the electric wire, but the water cooling circuit. As you described, running the output of an AC generator to a DC charger is not practical for 10kW+, due to the lack of battery charger designed for that?much power. ? The advantage of the DC genset I see is that the output of the generator feeding the rectifier box is 3 phases AC. That means that the output of the rectifier box is a quite stable voltage. If you were to rectify a single phase AC, your DC voltage would drop to 0V around 120 times per second, so the current would do the same (when the rectified DC voltage is less than the battery voltage, no current flows from the generator to the battery or to the load).
Regarding your question on the?ME1616 motor, it is not a DC motor. The?ME1616 is a 3 phase AC motor. In traction mode, we use a motor controller that we feed DC to, and the controller creates the 3 phase AC to drive the motor at the RPM specified to the controller.
Cheers,
Jerome
On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 5:01?PM Robert McArthur < rjmcarthur@...> wrote: Dan (and anyone else who wants to explain!), Delving back a little... On Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 3:03 am Dan Pfeiffer, < dan@...> wrote:
I got a 2nd 12kW motor to use as a generator with a 3cyl Kubota diesel I have (18hp) but have not built the genset yet.? The diesel is very compact and I figured I could get a 10-12kW 48VDC generator from the combo.? After 2 seasons of use I think a smaller genset would do fine.? Maybe 5-6kW.? I could motor at decent cruising speed with that.?? Your use may be different.?? Genset info:
I just got a quote from one of the few marine DC genset places, and unfortunately it matches what I could find from the others - a new 16kW continuous 48V DC genset is about AU$28,000 or US$18,500. Not installed. Ouch!!
I see above Dan you thought about getting around it with a self-marinised bobtail, connected to a ME1616. I'm thinking of similar, but perhaps an already marinised Beta 20 connected to the ME1616 (another of which will be propulsion) since I am not particularly mechanically minded to self marinise.
Could you explain to a layman why, if using the ME1616, you would need rectifier or regulator? I thought the ME1616 already put out 48V DC (I presumed an actual 54V or so) with controller. Or would you replace the usual Thunderstruck kit controller with the rectifier and reg for the genset?
Since a brand new marinised kubota (Beta 20) could be less than US$8000, and the ME1616 is about US$1500, it looks about half the cost of buying a named brand 48V DC marine genset! Thoughts?
Another option for marinised is a Yanmar 3YM20. Neither though are a perfect rpm match for the ME1616 which is only (!) 12kW. But if I can spend US$10,000 for 12kW vs $18,500 for 16Kw then it seems a big win.
Rob
|
Hey Folks - I apologize for not maybe having all the specifics needed for this but related to this thread and a somewhat more simple question:
I did buy the Pearson 10M that had been converted to 10 kW Thunderstruck with 2x24 x 2 48V bank w/ 196 AH.?
Presently there is no other way on the boat to recharge other than plugged in on a slip.?
Looking at everything, I figure that purchasing a gas generator is the best insurance on expanding range and dealing with extended draw conditions (currents, etc)
So my question is this - does it make a big difference whether the generator I get is 2,000 vs. 5000 W ??
I am looking on Craigslist and I can find quite a few used 5,000 W generators for good prices - I expect space is a consideration as well. I guess my main question is what would I gain from getting a 5,000 W generator vs. the smaller, more portable and perhaps more quiet 2,000W ones?
Trying to take care of some of these purchases this winter -
Thanks,
|
If you’re thinking a portable gas generator, I like the Harbor Freight 3.5kW inverter unit. Quiet. Electric start. Wait for a 25% off coupon. ?
?
I am just now putting together a 48v charger to maximize the available current (3.0kW) of the generator. I’m using a pair of 24v chargers in series.?
|
The answer to your question is (of course), it depends.??? What is the output capacity of your AC charging system?? The gas generators you are considering are 120VAC output?? (The 5,000 watt may have a 220VAC output?)? You will be delivering the power to the batteries or the motor through the battery charger that you would plug in to shore power.? That means you have a max power limit that is set by the charger output.? If your charger output is 1500 watts max that's your limit.? You can't get more through the charger.? So you can't use any generator capacity beyond what the charger can put through to the battteries/motor.??
You have? speed limit on generator of whatever the max output of the charger is.? If it's 1500 watts that's all you can deliver from the genset through the charger regardless of the genset output capacity.? For your boat (assuming a well matched prop) that going to be about 4 knots.? Probably a bit less but I don't know the details of the installation (reduction, prop specs).?? You can go faster but you'll be drawing the additional required power from the batteries.?
You can increase the charger capacity but there is no point in having a generator that has capacity several times what you can actually use?? My charger (Thunderstruck EV TSM2500) puts out 1500 watts with 120VAC input.? If I had 220VAC it could put out 2500 watts.? So a 220 VAC generator of 2500 watts could in theory get me motoring at about 5kts.? These chargers can be paralleled and two of them would get me to 5000 watts and 6kts continuous with a 220VAC generator.?
But there are some other limits as you start to try to motor at higher speeds.? Mainly heat.? Can your motor run at that output level continuously?? That's why I went with the 12kW liquid cooled motor.? It can.? The 10kW?? Not sure what it's limits are but its quite a bit lower for continuous operation.?
My project (same boat) is still developing and I thought I would want about 10kW of generator capacity to get continuous motoring speeds of 6+ knots (need that to transit Detroit river in reasonable time) but after running the electric drive for a few seasons I think I would be fine with 5 or 6kW.
As to the generator, I would rather NOT have a gas powered generator on board.? Refueling underway from a gas can sounds like a sloppy process.? Gas fumes can accumulate in the bilge though that can be mitigated with careful handling.?? I would consider a propane powered unit.? Same fume issues but swapping out a new propane tank seems a lot easier at sea than re-filling the gas tank on the generator.? A little less output on propane Vs gas but the handling advantages seem worth it to me.? And these generators are strictly for above deck use.? Same for the fuel storage.? Dan Pfeiffer More on limits here: More on gensets:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2023-12-26 1:46 pm, Scott E Erdman via groups.io wrote:
Hey Folks - I apologize for not maybe having all the specifics needed for this but related to this thread and a somewhat more simple question:
I did buy the Pearson 10M that had been converted to 10 kW Thunderstruck with 2x24 x 2 48V bank w/ 196 AH.?
Presently there is no other way on the boat to recharge other than plugged in on a slip.?
Looking at everything, I figure that purchasing a gas generator is the best insurance on expanding range and dealing with extended draw conditions (currents, etc)
So my question is this - does it make a big difference whether the generator I get is 2,000 vs. 5000 W ??
I am looking on Craigslist and I can find quite a few used 5,000 W generators for good prices - I expect space is a consideration as well. I guess my main question is what would I gain from getting a 5,000 W generator vs. the smaller, more portable and perhaps more quiet 2,000W ones?
Trying to take care of some of these purchases this winter -
Thanks,
|
Reuben Trane