开云体育

ctrl + shift + ? for shortcuts
© 2025 开云体育

Maiden Voyage


cedarcroft
 

I launched my 23' fantail at the end of August,
subsequently worked on installing the propulsion system
components and, a few days ago, managed to take her out for
her maiden voyage. Since then I've had her out a
couple more times and can now give a preliminary
report.<br><br>Most important to me, the motor is extremely quiet
even at speed. This was one of my two prime reasons
for going with electric propulsion but until the boat
was actually in the water and moving along at
cruising speed I just had no idea how it would really
sound. As it is, the noise of the bow wave is louder
than the low hum of the motor. So this aspect was a
resounding, important success.<br><br>The othe big question
was speed/range. I am using a 13 X 12 prop that was
given to me--quite a bit smaller than I'd been
intending. But I thought that I'd see what she would do with
that setup. <br><br>What I find is that the boat's
most efficient speed seems to be around 4.3kts or so.
At that rate she draws 20A (just under 1 hp). Since
I don't want to draw my battery bank down below
about 70%, that gives me a realistic range of 8.9 hours
(as calculated by my e-meter) or roughly 36 mi.! I'd
been hoping for around 25 which will be about the most
I would ever need. The farthest I've "cranked it
up" so far is 60A which is the equivalent of about
3hp. (The motor is rated at 4.1hp continuous/ 6hp
peak.) At 60A she does 6.2kts but has a range of only
17mi. or so. But 6.2kts seems like bombing along (and
in a straight line!) to a guy who's used to sailing,
paddling, or rowing little boats around this
lake!<br><br>Larry


donaldbaer
 

Congradulations on you maiden voyage. sounds liek
youve got what you were looking for. I assume you are
using a 48 volt system. I plugged you prop data into
the modeling spread sheet that I am attempting and
using a .6 % slip factor came up with a 20.31 amps at
4.2 kts and 65.34 amps at 6.2 kts. It also said your
shaft rpms was at 708 and 1013 respectivly. Can you
tell me how close I am at guestimating since I am
trying to get some data to validate my model. Also if
and when you change to another prop what are you
planning on changing to. I'd like to plug that data into
my model and see what your performance would be
like.<br><br>Don


cedarcroft
 

The system is 36V, using an Advanced A89-4001
motor and a 245A battery bank. I've had the boat out a
couple more times now, but with guests--who get in the
way of accurate measurements! But the numbers I
previously posted seem to be holding true.<br><br>Originally
I'd been thinking of an oversquare 16" dia. prop. I
would be very interested, indeed, to see what you think
the differences would be. Thanks.<br><br>Larry


donaldbaer
 

Hi Larry,<br> I looked up yor motor in my
Advanced DC motor catalog and found that it is about 75%
effecient. That will account for some of the minor
differences in my model and your actual performance. I Also
noticed that the motor is rated at a maximum speed of
2100 RPM's that means that your motor will produce 4.2
HP at 2100 motor RPM's.(I am going to varify this
with KTA since they are about 8 miles away from me
this is very easy)<br> How is the motor connected to
the shaft. I assume that you have some kind of a belt
drive. What is the ratio?<br> a common misteak people
make when applying DC motors is to not gear them in
properly.<br> Remember that HP = Torque x RPM devided by either
63025 or 5252 depending weather you are talking about
inch pounds or foot pounds.<br> You should alway gear
the motor so that it will reach its Maximum RPM when
the load (your shaft) is at its maximum RPM's in you
case if you are looking for a maximum speed of 8 knots
then with you existing prop you will want to plan on a
shaft speed of 1475 RPM's That means that a 1.4:1 Ratio
would be ideal. anything less means that you are
wasting power. That means that you can actualy lower your
amps draw by selecting the right ratio. A 16 x 16 prop
would cause your shaft speed to be lowered for a given
speed and it would increase your thrust. But if the
thrust is needed the it would make sense. you motor amps
would go up however. If your motor is not geared at
1.4:1 then you should either change the ratio or select
a smaller prop.<br><br>Good sailing er a
motoring<br><br>Don


cedarcroft
 

Seems like there must be something wrong here.
<br><br>First, how does the calculation relate to hull
type/configuration? Theoretical hull speed on a 23' displacement boat
is going to be a lot below 8 kts. In my case,
5.8kts. I have always understood (and experienced with my
other displacement hulls) that to get 38% above hull
speed is going to take incredible amounts of additional
HP, if it's possible at all in the real world. I
don't really think that 8kts is a realistic
target.<br><br>More to the point: <br><That means that a<br> 1.4:1
Ratio would be ideal. anything less means that you are
wasting<br> power..... If your motor is not geared at 1.4:1
then you should either<br> change the ratio or select
a smaller prop.<br><br>I'm turning through a 2.4:1
pulley reduction. I had been concerned that this ratio
was too low, rather than too high! One of the major
manufacturers of electric boats (who will remain nameless but
the field is limited, right?) wrote me a letter at
the beginning of my project saying that "the
efficiency of a slow-turning propeller is what is required
to improve the efficiency of the electrical system
to a point where it is competitive in performance".
They use a 20 X 30 prop (!) and, if I recall
correctly, turn it with 10:1 reduction.<br><br>Elco
materials (NOT, I might add the mfr. referred to above,
which limits the list of possibilities
further!)illustrate a 6kts speed target, with 2:1 reduction and an
800 rpm target yields a prop with 12.1" ideal pitch.
They say "if propeller speed is more than 1000rpm
consider a gear or belt reduction to increase propeller
efficiency."<br><br>So my thinking had actually been the opposite: I
might improve performance by increasing prop size and
decreasing shaft speed--not the opposite.<br><br>I will say
that the speeds and draws I seem to be experiencing
out on the water are very similar to the calculations
presented for the Elco. But I am not at all turning maximum
rpm's on the motor and, at least with this particular
prop, find that the increased rpm's generate greatly
increased amp draw without any proportionate (although
there is SOME) increase in speed.<br><br>So...do I
optimize by slower (rpm) and bigger (prop) or the
opposite? Put that way, it sounds pretty
fundamental.<br><br><br>Larry


donaldbaer
 

Larry<br> Your absolutly correct about the speed
for you hull. I was only picking 8 knots as an
example. For your boat we should use a number around 5.8
knots or say 6 knots. The calculations are based on
Gerr's propeller handbook and you are also correct the
hull configuration is a major factor. That is where
some educated guess work is first used since the
"SLIP" of the prop is a factor of you hull shape and the
screws RPM for a given speed. But in your case it we can
determine the slip. We know that a 12 pitch prop will try
to move throught the water at a specific speed
depending on it speed of rotation the difference between
the threoretical speed and the actual speed is the
slip. If you could measure the shaft speed at a given
known speed say 6 knots we could then calculate the
SLIP. If you don't have a tachomoter then you can get a
good estimate by measuring the motor armature voltage.
we know from the manufacturer that at 36 volts the
motor should be turning at 2100 RPM's and the
relationship is linear at 24 volts the speed will be about
1400 RPM's This is not exact and it will vary with
load but it is within 5 %. If WE know the slip then we
can calculate the ideal gear ratio to get the motor
to max speed at your most effecient speed.


bswanson_20602
 

Hi Larry, and merry xmas.<br><br>The hull speed
for your new launch is (theoretically) 1.34 times the
square root of the waterline length. But this is purely
a theoretical maximum (there's considerable debate
over whether it can ever be exceeded, and under what
conditions, but all of that discussion is irrelevant to your
boat). I assume the 23' measurement is overall length,
not waterline length, which is the number we really
need. Since she's a fantail, let's assume (for argument
and round numbers' sake) that her waterline length is
exatctly 20 feet. The square root of 20 is 4.47 near
enough. Multiplied by 1.34-that is 5.98 knots, or a
little better than 6 miles an hour. This means that with
a 10,000 horsepower nuclear powerplant on board,
your launch still can't go any faster than 6 knots. As
a practical matter, naval architects know that any
given hull shape will need to use a multiplier somewhat
below 1.34. In the case of a well-designed fantail, I
know for a fact that number would be around 1.2 due to
the efficiency of the hull. So your boat has a true
maximum hull speed of about 1.2 times 4.47, which is
about 5.36 knots. In the case of a round-bottom
displacement boat like a launch, this means there is no power
on earth that will move it through the water faster
than 5.36 knots.<br>What it also means is that you
need to perform all further hull/speed and horsepower
calculations using the 1.2 x 4.47 calculation as your base
number. Since not even a 900-horse jet engine will move
her faster than 5.36 knots, there is no sense in
using any value higher than 5.36 for hull speed. (To
some extent this whole discussion is faintly
ridiculous, since we're working in hundreths of a knot, which
is well beyond any measurable tolerance we'd be
working with in the real world, but out of habit we all
tend to work in two or three decimal places, as though
they meant something. Tenths would be more realistic.
But I always work to 2 decimal places out of
habit.)<br>You may need to know where and why the 1.2 is
important--it is the estimated coefficient of efficiency of
hulls shaped about like fantail launches, and is a
derivative number that comes from measurements and averages
of lots of boats. Yeah, you'll get a little argument
here and there; one naval architect will argue 1.18
and another will say 1.24 if she's really long and
flat...and yadda yadda yadda--this is where my footnote
about 2 decimal places comes in. The number 1.2 is
reasonable and close, and we're dealing with ballpark stuff
here anyway--nothing that can ever be measured and
calculated before. The only way to derive an actual number
is by actual testing--throw a 100-horse outboard on
her, go as fast as possible, measure the absolute
maximum flat-out speed, and work the calculation backward
(divide that speed by 4.47 to get your actual 1.2 (or
whatever) multiplier.<br>The "cruising speed" of your
launch is something else again. Everybody picks a
different multiplier for this, but it tends to go around 70
or 75 percent of maximum hull speed. This would be
the speed at which you and your boat can go
"comfortably" (whatever that is) before horsepower consumption
starts to rise on a graph. It is the speed you want to
cruise at without using maximum gas/electric/coal or
whatever. The number you pick is important, because it is
really the number you need to perform "ideal" or
"optimum" horsepower, shaft speed, power consumption, prop
diameter, etc., etc. calculations. In your case, I'd pick a
number around 4 knots as ideal cruising speed, and work
with that. I'd size the prop, figure shaft speed,
power usage, etc., all off of this base number--4
knots. Ya want 4.1? Fine. 3.9? Great. The presumption
is, this is the speed you'll be using the vast
majority of the time, so the engineering should conform to
it. There's no sense engineering your system to go
5.8 knots--you'll never see it happen, so why bother?
<br>Good luck. (Hey, post us all a picture.)