|
Jerry,
FWIW: I've tested my 10' West Marine RIB dinghy with both a 24V Torqeedo T2 and a Hangkai 48V 1200W electric outboard.? Both of these are rated at approximately 4hp equivalent(?).??
My experience was that the Torqeedo (with a MUCH bigger prop) seemed to have quite a bit more power.? At about 1200 watts, my top speed was about 4.8 knots.
On the Hangkai, WOT (wide open throttle) at around 1000W only got me to 3.4 knots.
Your mileage may vary.? And a cat is very different from a RIB, and this was with two adults in the boat.
However, it was CLEAR - that neither of these motors would EVER get the dinghy up on plane.
The small electric outboards are fine to get you from your main boat to (a nearby) shore.? But you will do it at a very casual pace (crawl?).? ?It's a whole lot better than rowing.? But you aren't going anywhere fast, and you really need to pay attention to your battery, as no one seems to enjoy rowing RIB's...? ?Then again, my dinghy is for a trawler that does about 8-9 knots WOT - so a 3 or 4 knot dinghy ride in to shore might be a reasonable fit for life in the slow lane.? ?:)
John
John
On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 09:20:34 AM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
?? I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy out of foam and glass. About 120 lbs. I also have the Hang Kai 1.2.? Hopefully will have the boat running by end of summer.
?? I'm probably going to go with a small server rack lifepo4 that weighs about 40 lbs so I can carry it home to charge. The prices are getting better so waiting until end to buy it.
??? The 10 foot version of my dinghy would plane at 14 knots with one guy on a 3 hp gas honda. So I asked my Aussie propeller expert to look at the Hang Kai. He thinks we'll get at least 10 knots. So I'll give it a shot. If it looks promising I might get another and gang them together. Would also be good for redundancy.
??? We discussed the prop. The motor is geared one to one, so the prop is spinning at 3000 rpm or so. That's why it's small. Depending on how things go I've got an idea of an adapter to gear it down and fit a bigger prop.
??? Keep posting. I'll let you know how it goes when we get the thing in the water.
Jerry Barth
On April 18, 2024, at 10:03 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote:
Revisiting this question:
I'm using an electric motor and battery for my dinghy. I've used Anderson connectors (100A and 50A) - and they're fine electrically. But the 50A blue Anderson connectors corrode horribly in the salt environment.
I've seen XT60 and XT90 connectors, and think I've heard of people using those for solar connections (as well as being used in RC stuff).
Would XT60 connectors do better in a salt environment than Anderson connectors?
John
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:00:35 AM CDT, Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi John,
I use 50 amp andersons on my dinghy motor. They do take a beating. I have to clean them every few months. Keep in mind, I get them wet frequently and they have taken more than a few dips in salt water. Salt water corrodes them pretty quick. Ill eventually try another solution.?
I can't speak for the Hankai specifically, but 800 watt input power should be enough for 4mph with a little margin. Power needed to go faster then 4mph will go up exponentially.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician?
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:36:47 AM EDT, john via <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote:
I'm planning to use an electric outboard on the West Marine RIB 310 for my trawler.? The dinghy is about 10' long, weighs a little over 100 pounds empty, plus 2-3 "solid sized" adults, plus motor and battery.? Current plan is to experiment with a 48V Hangkai electric outboard, powered by a BTR 48V Ebike battery.
Question:? What connectors are best for using in the marine environment?
I have experience with Torqeedos, and they use Anderson Plugs.? Is that the best option for being able to quickly plug between the battery and the motor?
One thing I want to do is put a small box between the battery and motor.? The box will include a battery switch on the positive leg and a Victron battery monitor on the negative leg.? While the Torqeedo used Anderson type connectors, I believe 120A type - I'll probably go with 50A Anderson connectors for the Hangkai.? This is because both the batteries and the motor use small guage leads - 12GA at most.? This is challenging enough to crimp into the pins of the 50A connector (intended for 8ga wire).? ?I have a crimper that I use for most of the large pins and terminal lugs, but have to resort to using a bench vice to crimp the connectors on the small motor and battery leads.? I'm planning to use 8 ga wire for the longer runs.? ?The motor is rated at 1000W.? ?I'm assuming I shouldn't be running much over 20A peak, probably more like 800W for typical cruising.
The Hangkai is tiny compared to the Torqeedo 2T.? ?But I'm really curious to see how the Hangkai does, and am REALLY hopeful that it works out.? At $350, it's less than 1/10th the cost of a Torqeedo.? ?The Ebike 48V batteries seem to be much better priced and much more available than 24V lithium batteries.? My hope is that a 50A Ebike battery will get me at least 2 hours of run time at around 800W on the Hangkai - and I'm REALLY hopeful that 800W will be enough to push the dinghy at least to 3-4mph.? ?
I'm looking forward to being able to put some data together to compare the Torqeedo to the Hangkai.? I understand that the Hangkai has less than half the power of the Torqeedo (and the prop on the Hangkai also seems tiny compared to the Torqeedo prop) - but if it can honestly put out what it claims to do, I think that'll be sufficient for a small dinghy.? Given my battery bank, 800W would be a good burn rate.? I know it'll never get me on plane or win any races.? But if it gets me from the boat to the beach, and lets me toodle around a little from time to time, that'll be just fine.
John
|
I have the epropulsion equivalent to the torgueedo on my Pocketship and a small pontoon boat and it’s great on both. However I saw a youtube video where they were running the epropulsion on a small RIB and they reported terrible performance. Evidently a RIB not on plane is really, really, inefficient.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 19, 2024, at 3:14?PM, john via groups.io <oak_box@...> wrote:
?
Jerry,
FWIW: I've tested my 10' West Marine RIB dinghy with both a 24V Torqeedo T2 and a Hangkai 48V 1200W electric outboard.? Both of these are rated at approximately 4hp equivalent(?).??
My experience was that the Torqeedo (with a MUCH bigger prop) seemed to have quite a bit more power.? At about 1200 watts, my top speed was about 4.8 knots.
On the Hangkai, WOT (wide open throttle) at around 1000W only got me to 3.4 knots.
Your mileage may vary.? And a cat is very different from a RIB, and this was with two adults in the boat.
However, it was CLEAR - that neither of these motors would EVER get the dinghy up on plane.
The small electric outboards are fine to get you from your main boat to (a nearby) shore.? But you will do it at a very casual pace (crawl?).? ?It's a whole lot better than rowing.? But you aren't going anywhere fast, and you really need to pay attention to your battery, as no one seems to enjoy rowing RIB's...? ?Then again, my dinghy is for a trawler that does about 8-9 knots WOT - so a 3 or 4 knot dinghy ride in to shore might be a reasonable fit for life in the slow lane.? ?:)
John
John
On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 09:20:34 AM CDT, shredderf16 <shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
?? I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy out of foam and glass. About 120 lbs. I also have the Hang Kai 1.2.? Hopefully will have the boat running by end of summer.
?? I'm probably going to go with a small server rack lifepo4 that weighs about 40 lbs so I can carry it home to charge. The prices are getting better so waiting until end to buy it.
??? The 10 foot version of my dinghy would plane at 14 knots with one guy on a 3 hp gas honda. So I asked my Aussie propeller expert to look at the Hang Kai. He thinks we'll get at least 10 knots. So I'll give it a shot. If it looks promising I might get another and gang them together. Would also be good for redundancy.
??? We discussed the prop. The motor is geared one to one, so the prop is spinning at 3000 rpm or so. That's why it's small. Depending on how things go I've got an idea of an adapter to gear it down and fit a bigger prop.
??? Keep posting. I'll let you know how it goes when we get the thing in the water.
Jerry Barth
On April 18, 2024, at 10:03 PM, "john via groups.io" <oak_box@...> wrote:
Revisiting this question:
I'm using an electric motor and battery for my dinghy. I've used Anderson connectors (100A and 50A) - and they're fine electrically. But the 50A blue Anderson connectors corrode horribly in the salt environment.
I've seen XT60 and XT90 connectors, and think I've heard of people using those for solar connections (as well as being used in RC stuff).
Would XT60 connectors do better in a salt environment than Anderson connectors?
John
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:00:35 AM CDT, Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi John,
I use 50 amp andersons on my dinghy motor. They do take a beating. I have to clean them every few months. Keep in mind, I get them wet frequently and they have taken more than a few dips in salt water. Salt water corrodes them pretty quick. Ill eventually try another solution.?
I can't speak for the Hankai specifically, but 800 watt input power should be enough for 4mph with a little margin. Power needed to go faster then 4mph will go up exponentially.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician?
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:36:47 AM EDT, john via <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote:
I'm planning to use an electric outboard on the West Marine RIB 310 for my trawler.? The dinghy is about 10' long, weighs a little over 100 pounds empty, plus 2-3 "solid sized" adults, plus motor and battery.? Current plan is to experiment with a 48V Hangkai electric outboard, powered by a BTR 48V Ebike battery.
Question:? What connectors are best for using in the marine environment?
I have experience with Torqeedos, and they use Anderson Plugs.? Is that the best option for being able to quickly plug between the battery and the motor?
One thing I want to do is put a small box between the battery and motor.? The box will include a battery switch on the positive leg and a Victron battery monitor on the negative leg.? While the Torqeedo used Anderson type connectors, I believe 120A type - I'll probably go with 50A Anderson connectors for the Hangkai.? This is because both the batteries and the motor use small guage leads - 12GA at most.? This is challenging enough to crimp into the pins of the 50A connector (intended for 8ga wire).? ?I have a crimper that I use for most of the large pins and terminal lugs, but have to resort to using a bench vice to crimp the connectors on the small motor and battery leads.? I'm planning to use 8 ga wire for the longer runs.? ?The motor is rated at 1000W.? ?I'm assuming I shouldn't be running much over 20A peak, probably more like 800W for typical cruising.
The Hangkai is tiny compared to the Torqeedo 2T.? ?But I'm really curious to see how the Hangkai does, and am REALLY hopeful that it works out.? At $350, it's less than 1/10th the cost of a Torqeedo.? ?The Ebike 48V batteries seem to be much better priced and much more available than 24V lithium batteries.? My hope is that a 50A Ebike battery will get me at least 2 hours of run time at around 800W on the Hangkai - and I'm REALLY hopeful that 800W will be enough to push the dinghy at least to 3-4mph.? ?
I'm looking forward to being able to put some data together to compare the Torqeedo to the Hangkai.? I understand that the Hangkai has less than half the power of the Torqeedo (and the prop on the Hangkai also seems tiny compared to the Torqeedo prop) - but if it can honestly put out what it claims to do, I think that'll be sufficient for a small dinghy.? Given my battery bank, 800W would be a good burn rate.? I know it'll never get me on plane or win any races.? But if it gets me from the boat to the beach, and lets me toodle around a little from time to time, that'll be just fine.
John
|
John and Steve,
??? It'll be interesting to be sure. One of the many reasons I'm building the dinghy is that after 20 years of owning and riding around in RIBs someone always gets a wet butt, usually my princess. And one time I spun a prop bushing in St Lucia and had to row back against a 20 knot wind alone. Great motivator was next stop downwind was Venezuela. Only reason I didn't give up and swim back. Last thing is that in St Thomas at least these things are the equivalent of the plastic shopping bags blowing around. After arriving here they end up in the hands of less than responsible people. Tube leaks and it ends up in the mangroves. On our island in St Thomas harbor (500 acres) we've disposed of 20-30 of these dinghies in last 2 years.
??? The mission is to go 1.5 nm to St Thomas and back. I'd like to go at least 10 knots against the wind so will experiment with various motors to get that. If it gets too hard then I'll get a Yamaha 9 and give up. I've seen most of the available motors and am not excited about any of them. I might end up making my own.
Jerry
On April 19, 2024, at 3:17 PM, "steve sawtelle via groups.io" <swsyah@...> wrote: I have the epropulsion equivalent to the torgueedo on my Pocketship and a small pontoon boat and it’s great on both. However I saw a youtube video where they were running the epropulsion on a small RIB and they reported terrible performance. Evidently a RIB not on plane is really, really, inefficient. -Steve ?
Jerry,
FWIW: I've tested my 10' West Marine RIB dinghy with both a 24V Torqeedo T2 and a Hangkai 48V 1200W electric outboard.? Both of these are rated at approximately 4hp equivalent(?).??
My experience was that the Torqeedo (with a MUCH bigger prop) seemed to have quite a bit more power.? At about 1200 watts, my top speed was about 4.8 knots.
On the Hangkai, WOT (wide open throttle) at around 1000W only got me to 3.4 knots.
Your mileage may vary.? And a cat is very different from a RIB, and this was with two adults in the boat.
However, it was CLEAR - that neither of these motors would EVER get the dinghy up on plane.
The small electric outboards are fine to get you from your main boat to (a nearby) shore.? But you will do it at a very casual pace (crawl?).? ?It's a whole lot better than rowing.? But you aren't going anywhere fast, and you really need to pay attention to your battery, as no one seems to enjoy rowing RIB's...? ?Then again, my dinghy is for a trawler that does about 8-9 knots WOT - so a 3 or 4 knot dinghy ride in to shore might be a reasonable fit for life in the slow lane.? ?:)
John
John
On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 09:20:34 AM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
?? I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy out of foam and glass. About 120 lbs. I also have the Hang Kai 1.2.? Hopefully will have the boat running by end of summer.
?? I'm probably going to go with a small server rack lifepo4 that weighs about 40 lbs so I can carry it home to charge. The prices are getting better so waiting until end to buy it.
??? The 10 foot version of my dinghy would plane at 14 knots with one guy on a 3 hp gas honda. So I asked my Aussie propeller expert to look at the Hang Kai. He thinks we'll get at least 10 knots. So I'll give it a shot. If it looks promising I might get another and gang them together. Would also be good for redundancy.
??? We discussed the prop. The motor is geared one to one, so the prop is spinning at 3000 rpm or so. That's why it's small. Depending on how things go I've got an idea of an adapter to gear it down and fit a bigger prop.
??? Keep posting. I'll let you know how it goes when we get the thing in the water.
Jerry Barth
On April 18, 2024, at 10:03 PM, "john via " <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Revisiting this question:
I'm using an electric motor and battery for my dinghy. I've used Anderson connectors (100A and 50A) - and they're fine electrically. But the 50A blue Anderson connectors corrode horribly in the salt environment.
I've seen XT60 and XT90 connectors, and think I've heard of people using those for solar connections (as well as being used in RC stuff).
Would XT60 connectors do better in a salt environment than Anderson connectors?
John
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:00:35 AM CDT, Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi John,
I use 50 amp andersons on my dinghy motor. They do take a beating. I have to clean them every few months. Keep in mind, I get them wet frequently and they have taken more than a few dips in salt water. Salt water corrodes them pretty quick. Ill eventually try another solution.?
I can't speak for the Hankai specifically, but 800 watt input power should be enough for 4mph with a little margin. Power needed to go faster then 4mph will go up exponentially.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician?
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:36:47 AM EDT, john via <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote:
I'm planning to use an electric outboard on the West Marine RIB 310 for my trawler.? The dinghy is about 10' long, weighs a little over 100 pounds empty, plus 2-3 "solid sized" adults, plus motor and battery.? Current plan is to experiment with a 48V Hangkai electric outboard, powered by a BTR 48V Ebike battery.
Question:? What connectors are best for using in the marine environment?
I have experience with Torqeedos, and they use Anderson Plugs.? Is that the best option for being able to quickly plug between the battery and the motor?
One thing I want to do is put a small box between the battery and motor.? The box will include a battery switch on the positive leg and a Victron battery monitor on the negative leg.? While the Torqeedo used Anderson type connectors, I believe 120A type - I'll probably go with 50A Anderson connectors for the Hangkai.? This is because both the batteries and the motor use small guage leads - 12GA at most.? This is challenging enough to crimp into the pins of the 50A connector (intended for 8ga wire).? ?I have a crimper that I use for most of the large pins and terminal lugs, but have to resort to using a bench vice to crimp the connectors on the small motor and battery leads.? I'm planning to use 8 ga wire for the longer runs.? ?The motor is rated at 1000W.? ?I'm assuming I shouldn't be running much over 20A peak, probably more like 800W for typical cruising.
The Hangkai is tiny compared to the Torqeedo 2T.? ?But I'm really curious to see how the Hangkai does, and am REALLY hopeful that it works out.? At $350, it's less than 1/10th the cost of a Torqeedo.? ?The Ebike 48V batteries seem to be much better priced and much more available than 24V lithium batteries.? My hope is that a 50A Ebike battery will get me at least 2 hours of run time at around 800W on the Hangkai - and I'm REALLY hopeful that 800W will be enough to push the dinghy at least to 3-4mph.? ?
I'm looking forward to being able to put some data together to compare the Torqeedo to the Hangkai.? I understand that the Hangkai has less than half the power of the Torqeedo (and the prop on the Hangkai also seems tiny compared to the Torqeedo prop) - but if it can honestly put out what it claims to do, I think that'll be sufficient for a small dinghy.? Given my battery bank, 800W would be a good burn rate.? I know it'll never get me on plane or win any races.? But if it gets me from the boat to the beach, and lets me toodle around a little from time to time, that'll be just fine.
John
|
You won’t get 10 knots out of an epropulsion. It’s good for 3-4?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Apr 19, 2024, at 5:56?PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@...> wrote:
? John and Steve,
??? It'll be interesting to be sure. One of the many reasons I'm building the dinghy is that after 20 years of owning and riding around in RIBs someone always gets a wet butt, usually my princess. And one time I spun a prop bushing in St Lucia and had to row back against a 20 knot wind alone. Great motivator was next stop downwind was Venezuela. Only reason I didn't give up and swim back. Last thing is that in St Thomas at least these things are the equivalent of the plastic shopping bags blowing around. After arriving here they end up in the hands of less than responsible people. Tube leaks and it ends up in the mangroves. On our island in St Thomas harbor (500 acres) we've disposed of 20-30 of these dinghies in last 2 years.
??? The mission is to go 1.5 nm to St Thomas and back. I'd like to go at least 10 knots against the wind so will experiment with various motors to get that. If it gets too hard then I'll get a Yamaha 9 and give up. I've seen most of the available motors and am not excited about any of them. I might end up making my own.
Jerry
On April 19, 2024, at 3:17 PM, "steve sawtelle via groups.io" <swsyah@...> wrote:
I have the epropulsion equivalent to the torgueedo on my Pocketship and a small pontoon boat and it’s great on both. However I saw a youtube video where they were running the epropulsion on a small RIB and they reported terrible performance. Evidently a RIB not on plane is really, really, inefficient. -Steve ?
Jerry,
FWIW: I've tested my 10' West Marine RIB dinghy with both a 24V Torqeedo T2 and a Hangkai 48V 1200W electric outboard.? Both of these are rated at approximately 4hp equivalent(?).??
My experience was that the Torqeedo (with a MUCH bigger prop) seemed to have quite a bit more power.? At about 1200 watts, my top speed was about 4.8 knots.
On the Hangkai, WOT (wide open throttle) at around 1000W only got me to 3.4 knots.
Your mileage may vary.? And a cat is very different from a RIB, and this was with two adults in the boat.
However, it was CLEAR - that neither of these motors would EVER get the dinghy up on plane.
The small electric outboards are fine to get you from your main boat to (a nearby) shore.? But you will do it at a very casual pace (crawl?).? ?It's a whole lot better than rowing.? But you aren't going anywhere fast, and you really need to pay attention to your battery, as no one seems to enjoy rowing RIB's...? ?Then again, my dinghy is for a trawler that does about 8-9 knots WOT - so a 3 or 4 knot dinghy ride in to shore might be a reasonable fit for life in the slow lane.? ?:)
John
John
On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 09:20:34 AM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
?? I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy out of foam and glass. About 120 lbs. I also have the Hang Kai 1.2.? Hopefully will have the boat running by end of summer.
?? I'm probably going to go with a small server rack lifepo4 that weighs about 40 lbs so I can carry it home to charge. The prices are getting better so waiting until end to buy it.
??? The 10 foot version of my dinghy would plane at 14 knots with one guy on a 3 hp gas honda. So I asked my Aussie propeller expert to look at the Hang Kai. He thinks we'll get at least 10 knots. So I'll give it a shot. If it looks promising I might get another and gang them together. Would also be good for redundancy.
??? We discussed the prop. The motor is geared one to one, so the prop is spinning at 3000 rpm or so. That's why it's small. Depending on how things go I've got an idea of an adapter to gear it down and fit a bigger prop.
??? Keep posting. I'll let you know how it goes when we get the thing in the water.
Jerry Barth
On April 18, 2024, at 10:03 PM, "john via " <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Revisiting this question:
I'm using an electric motor and battery for my dinghy. I've used Anderson connectors (100A and 50A) - and they're fine electrically. But the 50A blue Anderson connectors corrode horribly in the salt environment.
I've seen XT60 and XT90 connectors, and think I've heard of people using those for solar connections (as well as being used in RC stuff).
Would XT60 connectors do better in a salt environment than Anderson connectors?
John
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:00:35 AM CDT, Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi John,
I use 50 amp andersons on my dinghy motor. They do take a beating. I have to clean them every few months. Keep in mind, I get them wet frequently and they have taken more than a few dips in salt water. Salt water corrodes them pretty quick. Ill eventually try another solution.?
I can't speak for the Hankai specifically, but 800 watt input power should be enough for 4mph with a little margin. Power needed to go faster then 4mph will go up exponentially.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician?
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:36:47 AM EDT, john via <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote:
I'm planning to use an electric outboard on the West Marine RIB 310 for my trawler.? The dinghy is about 10' long, weighs a little over 100 pounds empty, plus 2-3 "solid sized" adults, plus motor and battery.? Current plan is to experiment with a 48V Hangkai electric outboard, powered by a BTR 48V Ebike battery.
Question:? What connectors are best for using in the marine environment?
I have experience with Torqeedos, and they use Anderson Plugs.? Is that the best option for being able to quickly plug between the battery and the motor?
One thing I want to do is put a small box between the battery and motor.? The box will include a battery switch on the positive leg and a Victron battery monitor on the negative leg.? While the Torqeedo used Anderson type connectors, I believe 120A type - I'll probably go with 50A Anderson connectors for the Hangkai.? This is because both the batteries and the motor use small guage leads - 12GA at most.? This is challenging enough to crimp into the pins of the 50A connector (intended for 8ga wire).? ?I have a crimper that I use for most of the large pins and terminal lugs, but have to resort to using a bench vice to crimp the connectors on the small motor and battery leads.? I'm planning to use 8 ga wire for the longer runs.? ?The motor is rated at 1000W.? ?I'm assuming I shouldn't be running much over 20A peak, probably more like 800W for typical cruising.
The Hangkai is tiny compared to the Torqeedo 2T.? ?But I'm really curious to see how the Hangkai does, and am REALLY hopeful that it works out.? At $350, it's less than 1/10th the cost of a Torqeedo.? ?The Ebike 48V batteries seem to be much better priced and much more available than 24V lithium batteries.? My hope is that a 50A Ebike battery will get me at least 2 hours of run time at around 800W on the Hangkai - and I'm REALLY hopeful that 800W will be enough to push the dinghy at least to 3-4mph.? ?
I'm looking forward to being able to put some data together to compare the Torqeedo to the Hangkai.? I understand that the Hangkai has less than half the power of the Torqeedo (and the prop on the Hangkai also seems tiny compared to the Torqeedo prop) - but if it can honestly put out what it claims to do, I think that'll be sufficient for a small dinghy.? Given my battery bank, 800W would be a good burn rate.? I know it'll never get me on plane or win any races.? But if it gets me from the boat to the beach, and lets me toodle around a little from time to time, that'll be just fine.
John
|
Navy3 and 6s will come close but max out about there
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: "steve sawtelle via groups.io" <swsyah@...> Date: 2024-04-19 6:46?p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: Hangkai on a dinghy - was > Re: [electricboats] Connectors question for electric outboard
You won’t get 10 knots out of an epropulsion. It’s good for 3-4? -Steve On Apr 19, 2024, at 5:56?PM, shredderf16 <Shredderf16@...> wrote:
? John and Steve,
??? It'll be interesting to be sure. One of the many reasons I'm building the dinghy is that after 20 years of owning and riding around in RIBs someone always gets a wet butt, usually my princess. And one time I spun a prop bushing in St Lucia and had to row back against a 20 knot wind alone. Great motivator was next stop downwind was Venezuela. Only reason I didn't give up and swim back. Last thing is that in St Thomas at least these things are the equivalent of the plastic shopping bags blowing around. After arriving here they end up in the hands of less than responsible people. Tube leaks and it ends up in the mangroves. On our island in St Thomas harbor (500 acres) we've disposed of 20-30 of these dinghies in last 2 years.
??? The mission is to go 1.5 nm to St Thomas and back. I'd like to go at least 10 knots against the wind so will experiment with various motors to get that. If it gets too hard then I'll get a Yamaha 9 and give up. I've seen most of the available motors and am not excited about any of them. I might end up making my own.
Jerry
On April 19, 2024, at 3:17 PM, "steve sawtelle via groups.io" <swsyah@...> wrote:
I have the epropulsion equivalent to the torgueedo on my Pocketship and a small pontoon boat and it’s great on both. However I saw a youtube video where they were running the epropulsion on a small RIB and they reported terrible performance. Evidently a RIB not on plane is really, really, inefficient. -Steve ?
Jerry,
FWIW: I've tested my 10' West Marine RIB dinghy with both a 24V Torqeedo T2 and a Hangkai 48V 1200W electric outboard.? Both of these are rated at approximately 4hp equivalent(?).??
My experience was that the Torqeedo (with a MUCH bigger prop) seemed to have quite a bit more power.? At about 1200 watts, my top speed was about 4.8 knots.
On the Hangkai, WOT (wide open throttle) at around 1000W only got me to 3.4 knots.
Your mileage may vary.? And a cat is very different from a RIB, and this was with two adults in the boat.
However, it was CLEAR - that neither of these motors would EVER get the dinghy up on plane.
The small electric outboards are fine to get you from your main boat to (a nearby) shore.? But you will do it at a very casual pace (crawl?).? ?It's a whole lot better than rowing.? But you aren't going anywhere fast, and you really need to pay attention to your battery, as no one seems to enjoy rowing RIB's...? ?Then again, my dinghy is for a trawler that does about 8-9 knots WOT - so a 3 or 4 knot dinghy ride in to shore might be a reasonable fit for life in the slow lane.? ?:)
John
John
On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 09:20:34 AM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
?? I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy out of foam and glass. About 120 lbs. I also have the Hang Kai 1.2.? Hopefully will have the boat running by end of summer.
?? I'm probably going to go with a small server rack lifepo4 that weighs about 40 lbs so I can carry it home to charge. The prices are getting better so waiting until end to buy it.
??? The 10 foot version of my dinghy would plane at 14 knots with one guy on a 3 hp gas honda. So I asked my Aussie propeller expert to look at the Hang Kai. He thinks we'll get at least 10 knots. So I'll give it a shot. If it looks promising I might get another and gang them together. Would also be good for redundancy.
??? We discussed the prop. The motor is geared one to one, so the prop is spinning at 3000 rpm or so. That's why it's small. Depending on how things go I've got an idea of an adapter to gear it down and fit a bigger prop.
??? Keep posting. I'll let you know how it goes when we get the thing in the water.
Jerry Barth
On April 18, 2024, at 10:03 PM, "john via " <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Revisiting this question:
I'm using an electric motor and battery for my dinghy. I've used Anderson connectors (100A and 50A) - and they're fine electrically. But the 50A blue Anderson connectors corrode horribly in the salt environment.
I've seen XT60 and XT90 connectors, and think I've heard of people using those for solar connections (as well as being used in RC stuff).
Would XT60 connectors do better in a salt environment than Anderson connectors?
John
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:00:35 AM CDT, Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi John,
I use 50 amp andersons on my dinghy motor. They do take a beating. I have to clean them every few months. Keep in mind, I get them wet frequently and they have taken more than a few dips in salt water. Salt water corrodes them pretty quick. Ill eventually try another solution.?
I can't speak for the Hankai specifically, but 800 watt input power should be enough for 4mph with a little margin. Power needed to go faster then 4mph will go up exponentially.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician?
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:36:47 AM EDT, john via <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote:
I'm planning to use an electric outboard on the West Marine RIB 310 for my trawler.? The dinghy is about 10' long, weighs a little over 100 pounds empty, plus 2-3 "solid sized" adults, plus motor and battery.? Current plan is to experiment with a 48V Hangkai electric outboard, powered by a BTR 48V Ebike battery.
Question:? What connectors are best for using in the marine environment?
I have experience with Torqeedos, and they use Anderson Plugs.? Is that the best option for being able to quickly plug between the battery and the motor?
One thing I want to do is put a small box between the battery and motor.? The box will include a battery switch on the positive leg and a Victron battery monitor on the negative leg.? While the Torqeedo used Anderson type connectors, I believe 120A type - I'll probably go with 50A Anderson connectors for the Hangkai.? This is because both the batteries and the motor use small guage leads - 12GA at most.? This is challenging enough to crimp into the pins of the 50A connector (intended for 8ga wire).? ?I have a crimper that I use for most of the large pins and terminal lugs, but have to resort to using a bench vice to crimp the connectors on the small motor and battery leads.? I'm planning to use 8 ga wire for the longer runs.? ?The motor is rated at 1000W.? ?I'm assuming I shouldn't be running much over 20A peak, probably more like 800W for typical cruising.
The Hangkai is tiny compared to the Torqeedo 2T.? ?But I'm really curious to see how the Hangkai does, and am REALLY hopeful that it works out.? At $350, it's less than 1/10th the cost of a Torqeedo.? ?The Ebike 48V batteries seem to be much better priced and much more available than 24V lithium batteries.? My hope is that a 50A Ebike battery will get me at least 2 hours of run time at around 800W on the Hangkai - and I'm REALLY hopeful that 800W will be enough to push the dinghy at least to 3-4mph.? ?
I'm looking forward to being able to put some data together to compare the Torqeedo to the Hangkai.? I understand that the Hangkai has less than half the power of the Torqeedo (and the prop on the Hangkai also seems tiny compared to the Torqeedo prop) - but if it can honestly put out what it claims to do, I think that'll be sufficient for a small dinghy.? Given my battery bank, 800W would be a good burn rate.? I know it'll never get me on plane or win any races.? But if it gets me from the boat to the beach, and lets me toodle around a little from time to time, that'll be just fine.
John
|
Guys, this is what I'm saying. We gotta make our own. I'm out of loop on the newest raw motors. If you guys can point me toward a 4-5 kw motor the rest isn't that hard other than the 90 degree gearbox. I know from the experiences these local guys have that the production stuff looks cool but performance not that impressive. The submersible model they are using is inherently problematic. As is the proprietary stuff. Batteries, etc. I have in mind a very simple design, an air cooled motor up top, safe in a ventilated locker. Batteries are server rack light enough to be carried off to be charged. Reason for this is that my buddy Kevin who is on this list has solar panels mounted on his tourist excursion boat. He decided to attempt a ground breaking solo attempt to sail to Culebra (Puerto Rican island about 20 nm away) on electric power. 1nm away from goal Kevin found himself underwater because he lashed himself to boat in 6-8 foot waves and capsized. Too much weight up top. Kevin is fine, although on first name basis with USCG guys that pulled him out. He's currently on to next boat and making coin from our beloved tourists. We need Kevins in the world but don't want to be one.
?? So the motor and batteries are shielded from the onslaught of corrosion we've seen. On our island even American stainless 316 Stainless steel has a problem. My house is full of it. So the next thing is getting power down to our perfect prop. We do all belting/gearing up top, then send down. Don't need reverse cause 360 degrees.? The Aussie propeller expert I referred to earlier designed most of the human drives for the R2AK. He's told me the optimum RPM for our props. Below 1000 rpm weed is challenge. Too fast wasted energy. For the actual leg a carbon tube with a SS 316 drive tube running in hdpe bearings. Why 316 drive tube? Cause of wear on carbon tubes I've heard about on other applications. A little sand ruins your day.?? Faired by Fiberglass according to whatever we designed.? From what I have left of my engineering mind we can do a kickstarter project to provide the hardest to source products to make this happen. So what we really need is a reliable motor, and a submersible 90 degree angle gearbox. Get me those, and I can figure out the rest.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth
On April 19, 2024, at 6:27 PM, 63urban <63urban@...> wrote: Navy3 and 6s will come close but max out about there
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
-------- Original message -------- Date: 2024-04-19 6:46?p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: Hangkai on a dinghy - was > Re: [electricboats] Connectors question for electric outboard
You won’t get 10 knots out of an epropulsion. It’s good for 3-4? -Steve ? John and Steve,
??? It'll be interesting to be sure. One of the many reasons I'm building the dinghy is that after 20 years of owning and riding around in RIBs someone always gets a wet butt, usually my princess. And one time I spun a prop bushing in St Lucia and had to row back against a 20 knot wind alone. Great motivator was next stop downwind was Venezuela. Only reason I didn't give up and swim back. Last thing is that in St Thomas at least these things are the equivalent of the plastic shopping bags blowing around. After arriving here they end up in the hands of less than responsible people. Tube leaks and it ends up in the mangroves. On our island in St Thomas harbor (500 acres) we've disposed of 20-30 of these dinghies in last 2 years.
??? The mission is to go 1.5 nm to St Thomas and back. I'd like to go at least 10 knots against the wind so will experiment with various motors to get that. If it gets too hard then I'll get a Yamaha 9 and give up. I've seen most of the available motors and am not excited about any of them. I might end up making my own.
Jerry
On April 19, 2024, at 3:17 PM, "steve sawtelle via " <swsyah=[email protected]> wrote:
I have the epropulsion equivalent to the torgueedo on my Pocketship and a small pontoon boat and it’s great on both. However I saw a youtube video where they were running the epropulsion on a small RIB and they reported terrible performance. Evidently a RIB not on plane is really, really, inefficient. -Steve ?
Jerry,
FWIW: I've tested my 10' West Marine RIB dinghy with both a 24V Torqeedo T2 and a Hangkai 48V 1200W electric outboard.? Both of these are rated at approximately 4hp equivalent(?).??
My experience was that the Torqeedo (with a MUCH bigger prop) seemed to have quite a bit more power.? At about 1200 watts, my top speed was about 4.8 knots.
On the Hangkai, WOT (wide open throttle) at around 1000W only got me to 3.4 knots.
Your mileage may vary.? And a cat is very different from a RIB, and this was with two adults in the boat.
However, it was CLEAR - that neither of these motors would EVER get the dinghy up on plane.
The small electric outboards are fine to get you from your main boat to (a nearby) shore.? But you will do it at a very casual pace (crawl?).? ?It's a whole lot better than rowing.? But you aren't going anywhere fast, and you really need to pay attention to your battery, as no one seems to enjoy rowing RIB's...? ?Then again, my dinghy is for a trawler that does about 8-9 knots WOT - so a 3 or 4 knot dinghy ride in to shore might be a reasonable fit for life in the slow lane.? ?:)
John
John
On Friday, April 19, 2024 at 09:20:34 AM CDT, shredderf16 < shredderf16@...> wrote:
John,
?? I'm building a 12 foot cat dinghy out of foam and glass. About 120 lbs. I also have the Hang Kai 1.2.? Hopefully will have the boat running by end of summer.
?? I'm probably going to go with a small server rack lifepo4 that weighs about 40 lbs so I can carry it home to charge. The prices are getting better so waiting until end to buy it.
??? The 10 foot version of my dinghy would plane at 14 knots with one guy on a 3 hp gas honda. So I asked my Aussie propeller expert to look at the Hang Kai. He thinks we'll get at least 10 knots. So I'll give it a shot. If it looks promising I might get another and gang them together. Would also be good for redundancy.
??? We discussed the prop. The motor is geared one to one, so the prop is spinning at 3000 rpm or so. That's why it's small. Depending on how things go I've got an idea of an adapter to gear it down and fit a bigger prop.
??? Keep posting. I'll let you know how it goes when we get the thing in the water.
Jerry Barth
On April 18, 2024, at 10:03 PM, "john via " <oak_box=[email protected]> wrote:
Revisiting this question:
I'm using an electric motor and battery for my dinghy. I've used Anderson connectors (100A and 50A) - and they're fine electrically. But the 50A blue Anderson connectors corrode horribly in the salt environment.
I've seen XT60 and XT90 connectors, and think I've heard of people using those for solar connections (as well as being used in RC stuff).
Would XT60 connectors do better in a salt environment than Anderson connectors?
John
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:00:35 AM CDT, Matt Foley < matt@...> wrote:
Hi John,
I use 50 amp andersons on my dinghy motor. They do take a beating. I have to clean them every few months. Keep in mind, I get them wet frequently and they have taken more than a few dips in salt water. Salt water corrodes them pretty quick. Ill eventually try another solution.?
I can't speak for the Hankai specifically, but 800 watt input power should be enough for 4mph with a little margin. Power needed to go faster then 4mph will go up exponentially.?
Matt Foley? Sunlight Conversions Perpetual Energy, LLC 201-914-0466
ABYC Certified Marine? Electrical Technician?
On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 08:36:47 AM EDT, john via <oak_box= [email protected]> wrote:
I'm planning to use an electric outboard on the West Marine RIB 310 for my trawler.? The dinghy is about 10' long, weighs a little over 100 pounds empty, plus 2-3 "solid sized" adults, plus motor and battery.? Current plan is to experiment with a 48V Hangkai electric outboard, powered by a BTR 48V Ebike battery.
Question:? What connectors are best for using in the marine environment?
I have experience with Torqeedos, and they use Anderson Plugs.? Is that the best option for being able to quickly plug between the battery and the motor?
One thing I want to do is put a small box between the battery and motor.? The box will include a battery switch on the positive leg and a Victron battery monitor on the negative leg.? While the Torqeedo used Anderson type connectors, I believe 120A type - I'll probably go with 50A Anderson connectors for the Hangkai.? This is because both the batteries and the motor use small guage leads - 12GA at most.? This is challenging enough to crimp into the pins of the 50A connector (intended for 8ga wire).? ?I have a crimper that I use for most of the large pins and terminal lugs, but have to resort to using a bench vice to crimp the connectors on the small motor and battery leads.? I'm planning to use 8 ga wire for the longer runs.? ?The motor is rated at 1000W.? ?I'm assuming I shouldn't be running much over 20A peak, probably more like 800W for typical cruising.
The Hangkai is tiny compared to the Torqeedo 2T.? ?But I'm really curious to see how the Hangkai does, and am REALLY hopeful that it works out.? At $350, it's less than 1/10th the cost of a Torqeedo.? ?The Ebike 48V batteries seem to be much better priced and much more available than 24V lithium batteries.? My hope is that a 50A Ebike battery will get me at least 2 hours of run time at around 800W on the Hangkai - and I'm REALLY hopeful that 800W will be enough to push the dinghy at least to 3-4mph.? ?
I'm looking forward to being able to put some data together to compare the Torqeedo to the Hangkai.? I understand that the Hangkai has less than half the power of the Torqeedo (and the prop on the Hangkai also seems tiny compared to the Torqeedo prop) - but if it can honestly put out what it claims to do, I think that'll be sufficient for a small dinghy.? Given my battery bank, 800W would be a good burn rate.? I know it'll never get me on plane or win any races.? But if it gets me from the boat to the beach, and lets me toodle around a little from time to time, that'll be just fine.
John
|
